• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Jonathan Hickman's X-Men |OT| Adaptation or Dominance(Open Spoilers, Gambit is the Witness)

How should we tag spoilers?

  • Day of release spoilers are fine

    Votes: 109 51.7%
  • Give each issue a one week spoiler tag

    Votes: 65 30.8%
  • sPoiLEr tAGs fOR eVerYThinG

    Votes: 14 6.6%
  • No spoiler tags at all-even for speculation

    Votes: 23 10.9%

  • Total voters
    211
  • Poll closed .

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,514
That actually worried me a bit. When Magneto’s ego gets out of control... It's sort of like the same result as when Namor's does.

News cameras, destroyed cities and speeches about "Behold humanity because your reckoning has come."
that's part of why it's great

there are already things about this new status quo that are on a collision course
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,450

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,890
Marauders #1 preview is out.


Gotten pretty interested in this one since we’ve learned more about its premise.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,192
Speaking of Magneto, I love the way he took being countermanded without protest. He and the council run big picture, but in the field Scott and the other Captains make the calls and that's understood.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,794
Tampa, Fl
A Clear chain of command based on whose experience and ability is most vital to what is going on.

Also notice they threw a "post human" in this issue for those wondering if we are going to be dealing with Homo Novissima at all.
 
OP
OP
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621

Fubar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,751
Having not read any X-Men books in...a really long time, I'm lost on some of the characters/references but I'm trying to catch up.

I understand two of the three women in the Summers house are Jean and Rachel, but who was the third?

And this Rachel is the one that many presume is actually a product of Wolverine and Jean, right?

I might have missed something, but has Iceman been in any of HoX/PoX/X-Men so far? I don't remember anything about him.

I have read all of PoX/HoX and am subbed to pretty much all of the mutant-related series announced so far so I'm hoping to really enjoy everything.

EDIT: And I just saw Iceman in the Marauders preview, ha. He hasn't been featured anywhere else yet, right?

Does anybody think we'll see any of the X100 timeline engineered mutants?
 

JDSN

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,344
Marauders #1 preview is out.


Gotten pretty interested in this one since we’ve learned more about its premise.
Hickmann himself seems pretty impressed about it, so it's a core book to me.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,353
Marauders #1 preview is out.


Gotten pretty interested in this one since we’ve learned more about its premise.
That's a damn cool preview, I need more of that Kitty-Emma dynamic.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,223
Germany
What I don't understand:
- Homo novissima is behaving like a personified villain that's been around forever - it is still at least decades out from ever existing as even a first, isn't it?

It was more that humans were always the enemy as they eventually become Homo Novissima.

Still, he's acting like he lived through what happened in the past personally

- and from there it's evolving without evolution thanks to machine. But that is as a species not as an individual?

Evolution ceases to matter when they can manipulate their own DNA.

See above - I'm wondering if how long that specific being has been alive. Or if it's some kind or form of hive mind.

- what exactly was that plan? If it understood what Moira is, why would it send both her and wolverine off world? That wouldn't prevent suicide at any point - that was even possible in the zoo

If Moira was to die before they could be absorbed into the Phalanx then reality would reset (which is what happened when Wolverine killed her). They were going to be sent off planet so that they would be absorbed before that happened. The Phalanx can exist outside of time when they enter into a dominion. If they knew about Moira's power they would snuff her out when she is born, and prevent the rebirth cycle.

Yes, but if they understood Moira and Wolverines intention that well, why would they even have them out and running around free in the first place? If they don't restrict her, she'll always chose death, especially now that she knows what's at stake.


- is Sinister the one that kick-starts Homo novissima with his dna manipulation?

I believe this was a different reality that will come into play later on based on how the dominions exist. Sinister created an omega-based chimera batch with a hive mind that was corrupted and all died (or did they?) after collapsing into a self-singularity. Most likely we will see this hive mind in the future.

But he is on the forefront of DNA manipulation - which is what eventually end up in the end state of humanity. So it's gonna be interesting to see if he personally was involved in making advancements that fastens the progress.


- does it matter if they use a normal human or a mutant as a base?

It was humans in the book, that is never brought up from what I can see.

- why does Homo novissima act like it had planned all this out? It clearly didn't at the point most of the X-Men universe takes place in.

I think that was just a villain speech about how humanity would always adapt and win.

- what is the second Krakoa?
- is there anything in the books so far that took place there?

Not sure about these.

Overall I loved the world building and the setting of a giant play board that can develop a lot without reaching a new stale status quo soon. But there are maybe too many hooks at play here to get people to read on. I get that it's too much to develop all of it in 12 issues, but they have basically wet up an unsolved mystery a page.

I feel like reading on at least a little, so I'll probably get the X-Men comics and the other one that Hickman writes - was it New Mutants?
Thanks for answering - still playing catch up with the thread, but a lot of stuff became more clear in the meantime.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,223
Germany
Just finished X-Men #1:

Besides not being the biggest fan of the art, I'm also not big on the decision to have a villain that apparently already has a understanding of the new reasurection process of the X-Men including the technical side, including a working christal that for some reason has a human stored in it.

Feels like they jumped several things to get there without building up to it.
 

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,890
Just finished X-Men #1:

Besides not being the biggest fan of the art, I'm also not big on the decision to have a villain that apparently already has a understanding of the new reasurection process of the X-Men including the technical side, including a working christal that for some reason has a human stored in it.

Feels like they jumped several things to get there without building up to it.
I think this is a little premature when the comic hasn’t even stated what the crystal actually is yet, nor how exactly Gregor’s doing anything based off Xavier’s process or has come up with her own.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,450
Just finished X-Men #1:

Besides not being the biggest fan of the art, I'm also not big on the decision to have a villain that apparently already has a understanding of the new reasurection process of the X-Men including the technical side, including a working christal that for some reason has a human stored in it.

Feels like they jumped several things to get there without building up to it.
She and Orchid don’t have any understanding of the X-men resurrection process. She is using a data Crystal to store an human conscience, yes, but the end result will be A.I, or more likely Ninrod. Totally different process, and the story is slowing building to that.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,223
Germany
She and Orchid don’t have any understanding of the X-men resurrection process. She is using a data Crystal to store an human conscience, yes, but the end result will be A.I, or more likely Ninrod. Totally different process, and the story is slowing building to that.
Ah, I see - I completely misread this then. Where the data christals a big concept before this arc?
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,450
Ah, I see - I completely misread this then. Where the data christals a big concept before this arc?
Xavier is using Shiar Crystals to store huge amounts of data (mutant conscience).

It is predictable that Orchid may need to develop their own storage solutions since they are developing A.I. She and her husband were up to something. Now her husband is dead in the Mutant attack. Probably they were using their minds as a blueprint for A.I. and develop a similar crystal concept. Remember that Ninrod had a diamond shape device on him. Maybe she will try to “resurrect” her husband and create Ninrod in the process.

Remember that the Mutants learned that Ninrod would became active around now in that space station around the sun. They thought that Mastermold will be the genesis of it and their attack launched it in the sun. But what if it wasn’t Ninrod?
 
Mar 27, 2019
158
The more I read about crystals and storage solutions I think Hickman is reading through AWS documentation at night and its bleeding into the story.
 

jokingbird

Member
Oct 25, 2017
497
Thanks for answering - still playing catch up with the thread, but a lot of stuff became more clear in the meantime.

What I don't understand:
- Homo novissima is behaving like a personified villain that's been around forever - it is still at least decades out from ever existing as even a first, isn't it?

It was more that humans were always the enemy as they eventually become Homo Novissima.

*Still, he's acting like he lived through what happened in the past personally

He might have lived through parts of it, DNA manipulation would allow the Librarian to extend their life. It appears that is what they did to Moira using Wolverine's blood. But I think he was being more broad. They were slightly disinterested in actual godhood through the Phalanx so I think that is why they were talking as if it was a planned movement as a species rather than a reactive adaptation.

- and from there it's evolving without evolution thanks to machine. But that is as a species not as an individual?

Evolution ceases to matter when they can manipulate their own DNA.

*See above - I'm wondering if how long that specific being has been alive. Or if it's some kind or form of hive mind.

I would assume there might be some of a hive mind within the Librarian. My reading of the story was that they were very old and had collected knowledge possibly through a similar method as the Phalanx.

- what exactly was that plan? If it understood what Moira is, why would it send both her and wolverine off world? That wouldn't prevent suicide at any point - that was even possible in the zoo

If Moira was to die before they could be absorbed into the Phalanx then reality would reset (which is what happened when Wolverine killed her). They were going to be sent off planet so that they would be absorbed before that happened. The Phalanx can exist outside of time when they enter into a dominion. If they knew about Moira's power they would snuff her out when she is born, and prevent the rebirth cycle.

*Yes, but if they understood Moira and Wolverines intention that well, why would they even have them out and running around free in the first place? If they don't restrict her, she'll always chose death, especially now that she knows what's at stake.

At the point we were reading in the story, I think the Librarian was fine with not being absorbed into the Phalanx. They made the decision to come talk with Wolverine and Moira. Previously I believe they were preventing anything from happening to Moira by using some power and technology they had within the Zoo. Once they were dead, Wolverine could kill Moira. I think the important part of the conversation was that the Librarian did not like the actual way that godhood was achieved through the Dominions. They would only exist in a space without a true physical form that is similar to a simulation. It felt fake. So I don't really think Wolverine was as quick as the panels made it look, it was more them giving in to a timeline reset. That is my read on the story anyways.

- is Sinister the one that kick-starts Homo novissima with his dna manipulation?

I believe this was a different reality that will come into play later on based on how the dominions exist. Sinister created an omega-based chimera batch with a hive mind that was corrupted and all died (or did they?) after collapsing into a self-singularity. Most likely we will see this hive mind in the future.

*But he is on the forefront of DNA manipulation - which is what eventually end up in the end state of humanity. So it's gonna be interesting to see if he personally was involved in making advancements that fastens the progress.

Most likely Sinister will be a key element in causing chaos for Moira's current plans. Hastening more post-humans is almost certainly going to happen in my opinion.


The most interesting aspect of all of this, is how similar the human villains are to the mutant population. The Homo Novissima could be mistaken for mutants in the far future. Even in the latest issue, the human methods for resurrection will probably have a striking similarity. It feels like tribalism with the way the two are going to be pitted against each other in the stories to come.
 

kreepmode

Member
Oct 25, 2017
198
I hadn't seen it posted, but there is going to be a Moira-centric book that will “dance between the raindrops” of X-Men continuity according to Hickman. In fact, they were ready with a 1000 year timeline to put in the back of PoX 6 that would cover Moira's 9th life...but decided not to at the last minute when the writer they wanted accepted the offer. I wonder who that writer is?

Hickman says it won't be out until next year. News was from earlier in the week so maybe its old.

 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,794
Tampa, Fl
So I went to Marvel Unlimited today and it is advertising my first X-Men crossover from when I was a kid. Thanks to the comics the convince store sold back them I didn't even get to read it all and just had to put the pieces together.

Apparently it's not well regard now a days, but I still love it. X-Tiction Agenda.

Why bring it up? Because Marvel did and in the first issue this happened.



Jean looking back on both the Phoenix and Madelyene as extensions of herself.

With the timing from Marvel spotlighting this series, and Hickman's disappointment that we don't "get" the Marvel Girl costume change, makes me wonder.

Also my favorite Jean costume will always be either the Kirby original X-Men costume of the Red and Yellow X-Factor one.
 

vegtro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
422
Having not read any X-Men books in...a really long time, I'm lost on some of the characters/references but I'm trying to catch up.

I understand two of the three women in the Summers house are Jean and Rachel, but who was the third?

And this Rachel is the one that many presume is actually a product of Wolverine and Jean, right?
Rachel should be from Scott and Jean from an alternate universe. I haven't read the X comics since the 90s so that is what I presume.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,353
I hadn't seen it posted, but there is going to be a Moira-centric book that will “dance between the raindrops” of X-Men continuity according to Hickman. In fact, they were ready with a 1000 year timeline to put in the back of PoX 6 that would cover Moira's 9th life...but decided not to at the last minute when the writer they wanted accepted the offer. I wonder who that writer is?

Hickman says it won't be out until next year. News was from earlier in the week so maybe its old.

Wouldn’t the thousand year timeline be the sixth life instead? And the only we didn’t get a timeline of. In any case a Moira solo sounds great after all of HOX/POX, and something I definitely will buy into.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,794
Tampa, Fl
Rachel should be from Scott and Jean from an alternate universe. I haven't read the X comics since the 90s so that is what I presume.
Supposedly she is the child of Scott and Jean from an alternate future where the Phoenix never died. They even did a What If comic that used the original ending of the Dark Phoenix Saga that ended with Jean/Phoenix having her brain altered so she could not use telekinesis or telepathy again. And basically implied that was Rachel's original time line.

Over the years people have taken Rachel's temper, violent nature, and hound skills to read as that she is instead Jean and Logan's kid.

Claremont, who created the character has never dismissed the idea. Even wrote Jean and Logan as soul mates in his X-Men The End alternate book.

Add to that when he picked up Uncanny X-Men again after the Morrison run he had Rachel going by the last name Grey, instead of Summers. And having Logan be extremely protective of her, has just fueled that theory.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,088
I hadn't seen it posted, but there is going to be a Moira-centric book that will “dance between the raindrops” of X-Men continuity according to Hickman. In fact, they were ready with a 1000 year timeline to put in the back of PoX 6 that would cover Moira's 9th life...but decided not to at the last minute when the writer they wanted accepted the offer. I wonder who that writer is?

Hickman says it won't be out until next year. News was from earlier in the week so maybe its old.

Speculation is they've gotten either Mike Carey or Warren Ellis back for the Moira X book. Either would be great I think, both did her justice in the past (although Carey's turned out to be a villainous construct of Legion's mind rather than the real Moira).

Supposedly she is the child of Scott and Jean from an alternate future where the Phoenix never died. They even did a What If comic that used the original ending of the Dark Phoenix Saga that ended with Jean/Phoenix having her brain altered so she could not use telekinesis or telepathy again. And basically implied that was Rachel's original time line.

Over the years people have taken Rachel's temper, violent nature, and hound skills to read as that she is instead Jean and Logan's kid.

Claremont, who created the character has never dismissed the idea. Even wrote Jean and Logan as soul mates in his X-Men The End alternate book.

Add to that when he picked up Uncanny X-Men again after the Morrison run he had Rachel going by the last name Grey, instead of Summers. And having Logan be extremely protective of her, has just fueled that theory.
Claremont actually had an alternate origin planned for Rachel, that she was an "immaculate conception" and the child of Jean and the Phoenix itself. He was big on a holy trinity comparison between the three of them.

Obviously he never got to follow through on it but he did lay some hard hints that Scott wasn't actually Rachel's biological father in early Excalibur, Days of Future Present and much later on in Uncanny's House of M crossover. Some other writers (Scott Lobdell, Kieron Gillen) have gone against that to some degree using Sinister but there's still wiggle room in both their stories too.

Logan being her father is mostly a fan theory but both Claremont and Jason Aaron have given it nods before too.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
NYC
Supposedly she is the child of Scott and Jean from an alternate future where the Phoenix never died. They even did a What If comic that used the original ending of the Dark Phoenix Saga that ended with Jean/Phoenix having her brain altered so she could not use telekinesis or telepathy again. And basically implied that was Rachel's original time line.

Over the years people have taken Rachel's temper, violent nature, and hound skills to read as that she is instead Jean and Logan's kid.

Claremont, who created the character has never dismissed the idea. Even wrote Jean and Logan as soul mates in his X-Men The End alternate book.

Add to that when he picked up Uncanny X-Men again after the Morrison run he had Rachel going by the last name Grey, instead of Summers. And having Logan be extremely protective of her, has just fueled that theory.
in #1 she is referenced by Hepzibah as a "hard woman" and she even sounds like Logan when she says she doesn't want a purple drink

Speculation is they've gotten either Mike Carey or Warren Ellis back for the Moira X book. Either would be great I think, both did her justice in the past (although Carey's turned out to be a villainous construct of Legion's mind rather than the real Moira).
Oh man, I really hope it's Carey
 

kreepmode

Member
Oct 25, 2017
198
Wouldn’t the thousand year timeline be the sixth life instead? And the only we didn’t get a timeline of. In any case a Moira solo sounds great after all of HOX/POX, and something I definitely will buy into.
Yeah, you could be right about that. I based what I wrote off what the article said. Maybe they meant to say it was her sixth life:

“So, yes, there was going to be a thousand-year timeline in the back of Powers of X #6 explaining all the cool things that happened in [Moira’s ninth life]...the reason why this changed in production is because there was a writer we had hoped to get to do our eventual Moira book (that works as a kind of ‘dancing between the raindrops’ of X-Continuity story), and they agreed to do it long before we were expecting them to commit. Which was great news,” Hickman told the site. “Then I basically told them what I was planning to do and asked if they wanted me to NOT put the timeline in the book (which would lock a lot of plot/story stuff in), and after talking about it, we decided not to stick it in there. But we got the writer we wanted, and that book is going to be amazing.”
 

Jinfash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
655
So, was the Cable in X-Men #1 a different version from the 90's cable? I'm seeing "kid Cable" references. If so, is he infected with the virus as well? Does the other Cable exist anywhere else?
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,292
So, was the Cable in X-Men #1 a different version from the 90's cable? I'm seeing "kid Cable" references. If so, is he infected with the virus as well? Does the other Cable exist anywhere else?
It’s the Cable we know from an earlier point in his life. He killed his older self because he failed his duty to protect time.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,270
It’s the Cable we know from an earlier point in his life. He killed his older self because he failed his duty to protect time.
This is one of those gloriously dumb things that comics love to do. It really is absolute nonsense but it looks even more nonsensical without any context. I love comics.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,500
New York City
Yeah, you could be right about that. I based what I wrote off what the article said. Maybe they meant to say it was her sixth life:

“So, yes, there was going to be a thousand-year timeline in the back of Powers of X #6 explaining all the cool things that happened in [Moira’s ninth life]...the reason why this changed in production is because there was a writer we had hoped to get to do our eventual Moira book (that works as a kind of ‘dancing between the raindrops’ of X-Continuity story), and they agreed to do it long before we were expecting them to commit. Which was great news,” Hickman told the site. “Then I basically told them what I was planning to do and asked if they wanted me to NOT put the timeline in the book (which would lock a lot of plot/story stuff in), and after talking about it, we decided not to stick it in there. But we got the writer we wanted, and that book is going to be amazing.”
I wonder who the writer is?
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,551
Is there a handy, well, anything that lists all the issue dates for Dawn of X, the Wikipedia page lists the release date of the first issues but nothing else and I find the comixology store to be a bit cumbersome other than if I just auto-sub to the series.