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Jonathan Hickman's X-Men |OT| Adaptation or Dominance(Open Spoilers, Gambit is the Witness)

How should we tag spoilers?

  • Day of release spoilers are fine

    Votes: 109 51.7%
  • Give each issue a one week spoiler tag

    Votes: 65 30.8%
  • sPoiLEr tAGs fOR eVerYThinG

    Votes: 14 6.6%
  • No spoiler tags at all-even for speculation

    Votes: 23 10.9%

  • Total voters
    211
  • Poll closed .

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
4,429
Nice that it ended up being Moira IX. Though I do hope these characters return somehow in the X timeline

Excellent issue. Damn at Apocalypse getting wrecked like that
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,793
Canada
I wonder - do the timelines carry on after Moira dies?

Because the Librarian has Cylobel in X3, but Cylobel was captured in the Moira 9 Lifetime, where Moira dies in X2.

So the Librarian has to be in the same Moira 9 timeline, or Cylobel also needs to exist and be captured in another timeline.

Also, I wonder why it says "Akkaba" under "Mother" in Moria's description on the Inhabitants of Asteroid K diagram. Apparently that's some Apocalypse bloodline cult?
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,436
This is a good question and I was trying to determine how to phrase this. It seems like it can’t right? It’s not like they are alternate realities...I can’t wrap my head around how this works.
I guess the timeline continues as an alternate reality. Depends on the specifics of Moira’s power. Her reencarnation resets the reality?

But even if that particularly reality continues, is it relevant to the narrative? I mean we can continues to see the outcoming, but since Moira isn’t around anymore the knowledge of that reality from the point of Moira’s death is lost, it cannot influence Moira’s next life anymore.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,499
Remender's X-Force is something that I actually don't understand the love it gets, I thought it was so bad that I had to stop reading cape comics for a bit.
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,766
Just realized, if that was Moira 9, then Apocalypse used Krakoa just as Xavier does in Moira 10. Of course, she would be able to tell him all about it...
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,654
Just realized, if that was Moira 9, then Apocalypse used Krakoa just as Xavier does in Moira 10. Of course, she would be able to tell him all about it...
Hell, this might be where Xavier got the idea. What’s crazy is that Xavier apparently knew all about Krakoa when he sent one team to be captured, one team to be killed, and one team to rescue the first team. Unless he mindwiped himself or something.
 

Proteus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,392
Toronto
We really need a full graph of the Moira timelines in the OP or something. I like to reference it while I'm at work doing spreadsheets.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,793
Canada
So, I'd thought that Mystique & Co were breaking into Damage Control to steal the information on when Nimrod was created and the circumstances that led to his creation.

That's weird, though - Moira 9 has that information. That's the whole point of their heist in her 9th life. So she withheld it from Xavier/Mags and somehow Stark/Richards got it?
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,778
Tampa, Fl
It's probably more that she knows the when and how. Mystique and company are there to steal the current timeline specifics, because while events play out similarly they aren't 100% the same due to her changing things as it goes.
 

Proteus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,392
Toronto
So, I'd thought that Mystique & Co were breaking into Damage Control to steal the information on when Nimrod was created and the circumstances that led to his creation.

That's weird, though - Moira 9 has that information. That's the whole point of their heist in her 9th life. So she withheld it from Xavier/Mags and somehow Stark/Richards got it?
I thought the information they stole was just confirmation that there was a MasterMold being constructed in space by ex AIM/SHIELD/SWORD etc. peeps. This just confirmed what Moira had already told Xavier regarding her previous timeline.

At least that's the way I understand it.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
5,908
So, I'd thought that Mystique & Co were breaking into Damage Control to steal the information on when Nimrod was created and the circumstances that led to his creation.

That's weird, though - Moira 9 has that information. That's the whole point of their heist in her 9th life. So she withheld it from Xavier/Mags and somehow Stark/Richards got it?
I think there are enough differences between the world Moira 9 and Moira 10 live in that Moira 10 doesn't know the exact circumstances surrounding Nimrod's construction.

The rise of AI is inevitable- kill off the trasks and someone else will do it. Nimrod likely arose "around the same time" in Moira 10, but different people and circumstances were responsible for it's construction. The "heist" was meant to tell them precisely who was building it and where in Moira 10, rather than a general idea of what would lead to it.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,436
Hell, this might be where Xavier got the idea. What’s crazy is that Xavier apparently knew all about Krakoa when he sent one team to be captured, one team to be killed, and one team to rescue the first team. Unless he mindwiped himself or something.
The layers to this one are just wild
He understood the importance of Krakoa. I don’t think he wipe his mind, otherwise he may not simple send a team to investigate it, he need to be sure that original Krakoa was discovered, even if it means losing a team. Wild.
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
57
He understood the importance of Krakoa. I don’t think he wipe his mind, otherwise he may not simple send a team to investigate it, he need to be sure that original Krakoa was discovered, even if it means losing a team. Wild.
We have no proof that Moira 10 told Professor all these things earlier as she did in life 5. Making Mother Moira ultimately responsible for the things you are blaming on Xavier. That is assuming that HoX 1 is starting at year 52 as it seems to in the Timeline graph.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,436
We have no proof that Moira 10 told Professor all these things earlier as she did in life 5. Making Mother Moira ultimately responsible for the things you are blaming on Xavier. That is assuming that HoX 1 is starting at year 52 as it seems to in the Timeline graph.
Assuming Moira we see in X^0 is Moira 10, she opened her mind to Xavier. So he knew everything about Krakoa (which was used in Moira 9 timeline in X^10).

I am not blaming Xavier. The implication is that he did all the necessary to ensure the plan.
 

Jonno394

Member
Oct 25, 2017
954
The
apocalypse vs Nimrod
fight and text was fantastic.

Glad i jumped into comics generally with these two series. Can't wait to see where this takes me!
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
57
Assuming Moira we see in X^0 is Moira 10, she opened her mind to Xavier. So he knew everything about Krakoa (which was used in Moira 9 timeline in X^10).

I am not blaming Xavier. The implication is that he did all the necessary to ensure the plan.
You know what they say about assuming.

Not that I'm defending Xavier. He's done plenty of unscrupulous things. I just don't think the timeline or what we have been shown in the books bear out that assumption. Now in HoX 2 they show her opening up her mind to him in Moira life 5 but her outfit is different. Perhaps that is Moira 6 we are seeing in that scene.
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,854
Every time I think I have figured something out, I come into this thread and realize I don't know shit...
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,436
So, the different "X^n" periods in Powers are not all in the same timeline? Oof...
Typical Hickman. He likes to show things to readers as not exactly as they seem to be.

You know what they say about assuming.

Not that I'm defending Xavier. He's done plenty of unscrupulous things. I just don't think the timeline or what we have been shown in the books bear out that assumption. Now in HoX 2 they show her opening up her mind to him in Moira life 5 but her outfit is different. Perhaps that is Moira 6 we are seeing in that scene.
I have to reread every issue and pay attention to details like cloths and backgrounds. As I said Hickman likes to deceive readers of what they think they are seeing.

But at some point Xavier is Xavier 10. And as Moira said, she wanted to try something different. Xavier 10 is onboard.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,793
Canada
x3 is totally Moira VI's life.
That's what I'm thinking now. Moira 5 is put in a coma due to a Sentinel attack and dies some time later. Moria 7 kills the hell out of all the Trasks. We're probably meant to infer that this is retaliation for what happened in Moira 5, but there's that gap there.

Maybe Moira VI is Moira teaming up with the Sentinels/Nimrod. They're the only faction she hasn't tried siding with yet. The outcome of that is X3, which ends poorly for her, so she flips out in Moira 7 and tries to prevent the Sentinels from even coming into existence.
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
57
Typical Hickman. He likes to show things to readers as not exactly as they seem to be.



I have to reread every issue and pay attention to details like cloths and backgrounds. As I said Hickman likes to deceive readers of what they think they are seeing.

But at some point Xavier is Xavier 10. And as Moira said, she wanted to try something different. Xavier 10 is onboard.
I too have re-read every issue. In fact, I do every time one comes out.

I can't claim to have as much knowledge of Hickman as you do. This is the first story of his I've read.

However, my point still remains that we have seen nothing in the timeline or the panels that show her opening up her mind to him in the 10th life. Of course, it must happen by year 52 of Moira's 10th life as that is when House of X begins according to the timeline. But nothing says or shows it must happen before then except for assumptions that we might have.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,436
I too have re-read every issue. In fact, I do every time one comes out.

I can't claim to have as much knowledge of Hickman as you do. This is the first story of his I've read.

However, my point still remains that we have seen nothing in the timeline or the panels that show her opening up her mind to him in the 10th life. Of course, it must happen by year 52 of Moira's 10th life as that is when House of X begins according to the timeline. But nothing says or shows it must happen before then except for assumptions that we might have.
I said “I have to reread” as “I need to reread”, not that I already done that. You posted some goods points that I have to pay more attention. I am not claiming any special knowledge of the story, or even Hickman. I only know from his previous works that he likes to subvert readers expectations and presumptions. Like in “everything dies” in Secret Wars.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,132
Dang, can't believe we're already at the half-way point for this event. Anyways, I really loved this issue. Press F to pay respects for my boy Apocalypse.
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
57
I said “I have to reread” as “I need to reread”, not that I already done that. You posted some goods points that I have to pay more attention. I am not claiming any special knowledge of the story, or even Hickman. I only know from his previous works that he likes to subvert readers expectations and presumptions. Like in “everything dies” in Secret Wars.
You're right about subverting expectations. That is why I keep re-reading the whole thing with each new issue. Cause my brain feels hyped but also slightly broken, stretched, and confused at the conclusion of each issue.

Sorry for the misreading btw.
 

TheRightDeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,058
Sinister's mutants are too good of an idea to leave behind in these couple of issues, I hope they get revisited at some point.