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The Krakoa Era of X-Men |OT| Mutant Massacre (Open Spoilers after issues drop)

Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 18 58.1%

  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 7 22.6%

  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Total voters
    31
  • This poll will close: .
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Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
As fun as the initial ride is I cannot wait until 6 months after the last issue so it's all on unlimited and I can just sit down and absorb it all, which I guess is pretty standard for Hickman. The PR buzz shouldn't have been "new starting point for old and new readers alike" as much as "don't worry confused new readers, old readers with encyclopedia level knowledge of the X-Books will be just as confused (maybe more in some aspects) until it's all done and we can read it as one work hopefully letting readers both old and new get it because it will be the full picture."
 
Manmademan

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,019
Hmmm....something i noticed that may not be trivial.

On the "surviving sol mutants" chart, if we look at the descriptions of each, they're divided into mutant: pureblood, or chimera.

EXCEPT

Apocalypse. Who is Mutant [External].

I had thought Apocalypse being an external had been retconned out. At the very least he didn't appear in the recent Cable series that featured them all.

If Hickman has restored that status, its highly likely even Nimrod can't kill him. I don't think that was a death scene there.
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
Mazzo said:
Do you think Moira 5's coma made her powers activate twice in that timeline?
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Could this explain the double, "And then..." on the third to the last page in HoX#2? (The two black boxes over fetus-Moira.) I have been stuck on this for days, thinking that somehow we are witnessing Moira's 11th life with Xavier on the bench, even though it sez 10th.
 
pillowtalk

pillowtalk

Member
Oct 10, 2018
2,562
Great run so far. I want to rewind a bit to the first pages of hox#1. What are those orange pods and why did cyclops and jean come out? I'm not sure if I'm asking previously known stuff.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
SamAlbro said:
It's been years since I bought any, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking of updating my Nightcrawler.
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i tracked him down with sinister from this line and was super happy, design is fantastic

sven said:
No but I did buy Blink a few months back.
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she's one of the only AOA people i didn't get over the years...i really should read exiles one day

PadWarrior said:


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woooooo that's a fantastic spread! props man, i'm waiting on the cyk/jean/wolvy set in december but i do prefer that regular one over the bomber jacket.
ordering a number of those tonight...i debated that mangeto set, but its only a bit more for the retroarch marvel one of him so i think i'm going with that one!
ill post pics when its done, please believe i need that BAF apocalypse and he's gonna look great next to my 90s toy biz sentinel, haha
 
PadWarrior

PadWarrior

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,475
IrishNinja said:
i tracked him down with sinister from this line and was super happy, design is fantastic



she's one of the only AOA people i didn't get over the years...i really should read exiles one day



woooooo that's a fantastic spread! props man, i'm waiting on the cyk/jean/wolvy set in december but i do prefer that regular one over the bomber jacket.
ordering a number of those tonight...i debated that mangeto set, but its only a bit more for the retroarch marvel one of him so i think i'm going with that one!
ill post pics when its done, please believe i need that BAF apocalypse and he's gonna look great next to my 90s toy biz sentinel, haha
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Nice! I got that 3 pack ordered cause I need that 90s Jean. This rabbit hole is deep. I've got some other marvel legends from the comics and mcu.
 
devenger

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,734
I got a new Nightcrawler legend for my bday, promptly snagged my third Cyke (Xfactor blue and white).

I think with the Cylobel link, X3 has to be Moira IX with X2. I'm thinking maybe the librarian is Apoc with lil Nimrod, they fought for a few centuries and then teamed up.
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,215
Tampa, Fl
I just realized the concept of AI being a discovery, not an invention and what that means for the Earth has some small ties to the plots of the current Iron Man comic which deals with AI rights and privileges.
 
Chiaroscuro

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,695
Mr. Poolman said:
x3 is totally Moira VI's life.
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It may really be. Hickman showed us Cylobel in the tank, but may not be the same Cylobel we saw with Rasputin and Cardinal in X^2. She was a Black Brain, not a Chimera (I am assuming chimeras only existed in Moira 9). The Hound program may have happen in Moira 6 too, even worst, with Moira teaming up with Ninrod. That was Hickman deceiving us.

Again, it does not make sense that X^3 is Moira 9 future with Moira long dead and not having information about that era anyway (we won't see what Moira does not know).

Also if everything must be solved in Moira X (I also believed there will be no Moira 11, that maybe was Hickman tricking us again). So any future cannot be from Moira X timeline, which we are following in the 616 present (X^1).
 
AmigoTaco

AmigoTaco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
98
I'm curious about Franklin. They made very specific mention of him in the first issue, but he isn't on any of the survivor lists in the future. Maybe he goes down with the avengers world being defeated?
 
Billfisto

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,956
Canada
Random Speculation:

I still think at least one of the times/places we're seeing is virtual. All the references to "the world" and dreams and Nimrod's mutant database seem to point towards something happening there.

Also, I'm waiting for the big reveal as to what Professor X said to Cyke telepathically that he didn't want Magneto to hear in the Nimrod briefing. He had to have said something there, his look was way too pointed in the silent panel, and the dialog on either side seems weird.

It's also curious that the first lines of HOX 1 are the memory-wiping phrase that the mutants apparently use in the future. I wonder if some of the events are the memories replaying as they're being deleted or something.
 
Alice

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
Since it was discussed here a lot... I want to buy hardcovers of X-Men Grand Design, but the Amazon listings are really confusing.

Is there a comprehensive list of which versions to get for the full story?
 
Estro

Estro

Member
Jul 17, 2019
339
And so finally one of the bigger theories I've seen thrown around this past few weeks is confirmed. This was a very well constructed twist, and one that makes the story better than what we tought: I much prefer this future being the one that informs Moira's decisions in life 10 than it being the unavoidable result of what is happening in the present.

I didn't expect a PoX issue to focus exclusively on one of the time periods, but it allowed for a very tense and action-packed issue, certainly the most fast-paced we've had for now. And the decision to have two PoX back to back now makes sense: next week, we mirror this issue in HoX with Cyclop's mission to avoid the creation of Nimrod, knowing exactly what's at stake. Really love how it's all coming together.
 
Teenage Fansub

Teenage Fansub

Member
May 24, 2019
22,197
Can anyone post a picture of the timeline from a physical copy of PoX #3? I'd like to see how large it is all unfolded from the comic.
 

Casker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,473
AmigoTaco said:
I'm curious about Franklin. They made very specific mention of him in the first issue, but he isn't on any of the survivor lists in the future. Maybe he goes down with the avengers world being defeated?
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Doubtful. Wasn't there a Hickman issue (can't remember from which series) where he was at the end of time with Groot? The list is only for the remaining mutants on earth either way so he could just be anywhere else.
 
Christian

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
Don't know if this has been brought up, but I'm wondering if the X^0, X^1, X^2 periods refer to different Moira timelines and not years. They may show her at different time periods during different timelines, key moments. Like, the 0 timeline has her just approaching Xavier. In the 1 timeline, it's Magneto. In timeline 2, it's Apocalypse. Timeline 3 is all three of these factions. And it's showing how her different decisions extend mutant history out longer. I know the 0, 1, 2, and 3 don't exactly match what number timeline her life is, but these would start at life 7, and we still don't know what happened at 6. So, it's like, she made some decision during life 6 to start experimenting with faction combinations or something to find the ideal future, and that's where we are now. Maybe? Is this gibberish? Did someone already propose this?
 
Stantastic

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Jinfash said:
Can someone summarize this "Avengers World" they references in PoX #3?
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Avengers world was a thing in Hickmans Avengers run,
Basically it was changing the Avengers from a single team into more of a massive network of heroes that could be called on as specific situations required more specific heroes to team up.
 
Chasing

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,716
Speaking of Hickman references another thing is the Ascendency Church's "The (Great) Machine", he really likes that phrase.
 
caffe misto

caffe misto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,110
the electric city
X^3 being a previous life seems extremely likely at this point (possibly Moira VI as many have mentioned). Two other lingering questions are what life does X^1 take place in, and what life does the regular main continuity of the X-books take place in (Moira X seems implied so far, but there is still room for many more swerves, could be XI, etc...).

Really loving this so far. I am excited to learn more about X^3, as the whole world and timeline seem fascinating.
 
Blader

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
Estro said:
I didn't expect a PoX issue to focus exclusively on one of the time periods, but it allowed for a very tense and action-packed issue, certainly the most fast-paced we've had for now. And the decision to have two PoX back to back now makes sense: next week, we mirror this issue in HoX with Cyclop's mission to avoid the creation of Nimrod, knowing exactly what's at stake. Really love how it's all coming together.
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oh shit, I hadn't even pieced that together, but yeah this issue totally recontextualizes that moment.
 
Billfisto

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,956
Canada
Estro said:
And the decision to have two PoX back to back now makes sense: next week, we mirror this issue in HoX with Cyclop's mission to avoid the creation of Nimrod, knowing exactly what's at stake.
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I wonder if we're going to get an inversion of what happened. Team Apocalypse suffered catastrophic losses but accomplished their mission. Maybe Team Cyclops will survive clean, but fail their mission.

Alternatively, I could see some major X-Men die on Cyke's raid as another WTF moment to make us question where/when those events are taking place.

Or heck, maybe the plan is to capture Nimrod and give him a proper upbringing/brainwash him or whatever so he's on their side this time.

On a more meta level, I'm beginning to wonder about the two-book structure of the event. We're reading them in release order and contextualizing based on that, but it seems weird to release it as two distinct books when there's a fair bit of crossover. Each book definitely isn't standalone.

I wonder if there's some slight-of-hand in play between the two books. Like, although they share characters and seem to flow from one book to another, maybe the books themselves are in different continuities, or information from the infographic in one book doesn't hold true for the other, or something.

I don't have any real proof to point to, but it's something I'm keeping in mind as I'm reading.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
Billfisto said:
I wonder if we're going to get an inversion of what happened. Team Apocalypse suffered catastrophic losses but accomplished their mission. Maybe Team Cyclops will survive clean, but fail their mission.

Alternatively, I could see some major X-Men die on Cyke's raid as another WTF moment to make us question where/when those events are taking place.

Or heck, maybe the plan is to capture Nimrod and give him a proper upbringing/brainwash him or whatever so he's on their side this time.

On a more meta level, I'm beginning to wonder about the two-book structure of the event. We're reading them in release order and contextualizing based on that, but it seems weird to release it as two distinct books when there's a fair bit of crossover. Each book definitely isn't standalone.

I wonder if there's some slight-of-hand in play between the two books. Like, although they share characters and seem to flow from one book to another, maybe the books themselves are in different continuities, or information from the infographic in one book doesn't hold true for the other, or something.

I don't have any real proof to point to, but it's something I'm keeping in mind as I'm reading.
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Pretty sure it's the same continuity, just need to be conscious of the year and which life of Moria we are witnessing.
 
Stantastic

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Billfisto said:
Not definitively on-camera, so who knows. Maybe he fist-fought Nimrod for 900 years and eventually they both calmed (and slimmed) down.

Also, we're dealing with alternate realities (and it's a comic book), so I'd say the odds are pretty likely we'll see him several more times.
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lol, Nimrod and Apocalypse becoming bros after being unable to kill each other for centuries would certainly fit for "the surprising end to the machine/mutant war"
 
Manmademan

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,019
TheIlliterati said:
So no one has completely answered my earlier question...who is the Freeman mentioned as being part of the Priest's genetic mixture? Manmademan ?
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Almost certainly this:


Not a last name, but instead a category of artificial mutant humans that existed in the Mojoverse. Longshot and Shatterstar being the two most notable.
Given the priest's extremely slim build (they have hollow bones, etc) I'd say this is the only plausible answer.
 
Mindwipe

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,224
London
THErest said:
Green Magneto was another chimera.
I am a little disappointed, only because I thoroughly enjoyed that characterization of Nimrod.

Maybe it's too easy to be a good guess, but I anticipate that X^3 may be Moira
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Manmademan said:
Hmmm....something i noticed that may not be trivial.

On the "surviving sol mutants" chart, if we look at the descriptions of each, they're divided into mutant: pureblood, or chimera.

EXCEPT

Apocalypse. Who is Mutant [External].

I had thought Apocalypse being an external had been retconned out. At the very least he didn't appear in the recent Cable series that featured them all.

If Hickman has restored that status, its highly likely even Nimrod can't kill him. I don't think that was a death scene there.
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TBF it's entirely consistent with Marvel's long running history of changing their mind about if Cannonball or Apocalypse are Externals every three weeks.
 
Manmademan

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,019
caliph95 said:
Apocalypse is immortal I'm not sure if could actually die
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As things stand, they can't. The recent Cable series brought the Externals back together- even ones that had been assumed to have been killed off years ago.
This crew of immortal mutants dates back to a concept Liefeld thought up- Externals could only be killed by other Externals, and even then decapitating them and removing heads/arms/legs was necessary.

The exact method used to successfully kill them has been retconned a bit, but that series had Gideon successfully kill off some or all of them and absorb their power before being defeated by Cable. That arc ended with an External thought to have been killed by Gideon resurrecting elsewhere as a child, and we see another one (Candra) resurrected in Mr. and Mrs. X.

Apocalypse was implied to be an External a long time ago (don't ask me where or by who, this is ancient history) but that one seems to have been abandoned around the time Marvel decided killing off the concept completely (originally Selene killed them all) was a good idea.

Hickman for some reason decides to Retcon Apocalypse back into being an External here. If that's the case even Nimrod couldn't permanently kill him off.

Mindwipe said:
TBF it's entirely consistent with Marvel's long running history of changing their mind about if Cannonball or Apocalypse are Externals every three weeks.
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Cannonball was abandoned as being an External some time ago, I thought- Selene said he wasn't when killing off the other Externals back in the day, and the most recent Cable series definitively puts the lid on it with Cable stating flat out that it was a mistake, and Sam never was.
 
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