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Jonathan Hickman's X-Men |OT| Adaptation or Dominance(Open Spoilers, Gambit is the Witness)

How should we tag spoilers?

  • Day of release spoilers are fine

    Votes: 109 51.7%
  • Give each issue a one week spoiler tag

    Votes: 65 30.8%
  • sPoiLEr tAGs fOR eVerYThinG

    Votes: 14 6.6%
  • No spoiler tags at all-even for speculation

    Votes: 23 10.9%

  • Total voters
    211
  • Poll closed .

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,418
Canada
Another thing I noticed: I think it's Omega Sentinel giving the "No More" speech.

At the end of the "No More" speech, the unaccredited voice says "Look at what they've done... ...what they always do. Look at how this always ends. With fire... ...and death... and the funerals of our children. Every victory... ash. Every triumph... defeat. They've murdered so many of us, the world has grown used to it. This is just... how things are for... those people. For mutants."

(As an aside, this speech could also be meta commentary on the writers/readers)

In PoX1, Omega Sentinel says "It's good that you're willing to die for a cause. Though causes have long seemed to be fatal for... you people."

She also talks about her only being there as an observer when she's on the Orchis station, as well. I wonder if she's somehow able to retain memories from Moira's alternate timelines.
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
875
So Sinister enhanced a clone with Proudstar DNA, joined X and Mags.... and was replaced by another Sinister somewhere along the way. Thats a pretty easy wrap up for the Sinister betrayal. The answer was always “well he’s Sinister.”
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
875
One wild guess: guard Sinister tells X hes a sad man in a peasant suit in a sad chair, and that wont do.

Prancing fey X from issue 1 has a fabulous suit, no chair and a helmet that boosts his powers.

But the end diamond on the secrets page is missing the top, like Nimrod’s. So confused.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
Wait, why was this brought up? I didnt see anything in the issue with her, but I could have missed something.

And I do agree, I think that would be a really neat part of her character if they do establish it.
We’re assuming the rumors/blind items in Sinister’s Krakoa gossip column are real. Chances are a bunch of them are horseshit, but some of that stuff is almost certainly being seeded for later in the run.
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
875
We’re assuming the rumors/blind items in Sinister’s Krakoa gossip column are real. Chances are a bunch of them are horseshit, but some of that stuff is almost certainly being seeded for later in the run.
Yeah I dont think 4th Summers bro is going to show up here. I also remember Rachel calling Scott dad and surprising him in the old Xmen/Alpha Flight vs Loki oneshot. But mebbe she was wrong...
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,418
Canada
We’re assuming the rumors/blind items in Sinister’s Krakoa gossip column are real. Chances are a bunch of them are horseshit, but some of that stuff is almost certainly being seeded for later in the run.

It says "[00.00_lies]" in the machine code at the top of the page, so who knows. Of course, that could be editorializing by whoever is reading the documents.

Interestingly, the machine code on the credits page says:

[00_sinis.]
[00_ter...]

[00_with...]
[00_the....]

[00_cape...]

[00_end_09]

I wonder if end_09 confirms that the continuation of the Ascendance stuff is the end of the Moira 9 timeline.
 

OrigamiPirate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
42
It says "[00.00_lies]" in the machine code at the top of the page, so who knows. Of course, that could be editorializing by whoever is reading the documents.

Interestingly, the machine code on the credits page says:

[00_sinis.]
[00_ter...]

[00_with...]
[00_the....]

[00_cape...]

[00_end_09]

I wonder if end_09 confirms that the continuation of the Ascendance stuff is the end of the Moira 9 timeline.
If the Librarian is some sort of ur-mutant that Sinister made and has some combination of DNAs that includes Moira’s (and certainly Cape Sinister’s), could an ascendancy still be something that Moira X would remember? (An 11th life, after a fashion)
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
875
Yep anything Doug makes me smile.

I swear there’s a quick visit from some future alt xmen/NM right after he dies that shows him as fullon Douglock for the first time, with the current jacket and everything but I cant find it.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,905
God I hope I don’t over hype next week. So far, every red issue has been a treat, and I already heard some people in Marvel hyping HoX 5.
 
Dec 6, 2017
424
God I hope I don’t over hype next week. So far, every red issue has been a treat, and I already heard some people in Marvel hyping HoX 5.
There's only been one "red" issue so far. I just have no idea how they're going to top the first (Moira revelation). What also makes me nervous is that the final issue in this miniseries is a red one as well.
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
ほぼ真ん中の方

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,505
Tampa, Fl
Finally got to read it.

So this Library Sinister made. Isn't that the one we saw in a comic recently. Dang it I can't remember what one.

Was it the most recent Uncanny?
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,569
Finally got to read it.

So this Library Sinister made. Isn't that the one we saw in a comic recently. Dang it I can't remember what one.

Was it the most recent Uncanny?
Hunt for Wolverine.

That series where they went "Laura being a clone is dumb, science doesn't work like that" and a bunch of other not important bad stuff stuff, but mainly that.
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
ほぼ真ん中の方
Hunt for Wolverine.

That series where they went "Laura being a clone is dumb, science doesn't work like that" and a bunch of other not important bad stuff stuff, but mainly that.
Can you elaborate on this? Which Hunt for Wolverine thing was this?
OH yeah. That one. The one that was like Sara Kinney was your mother. And every X-23 fan looked at the comic and went "Um yeah? And?"
Ah, yes. That was a bunch of nothing.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,418
Canada
I think it's more the hope that they can use him, even if they get used in the process.
Xavier thinks he's using Sinister, but actually Sinister is using Xavier, but Xavier actually expected Sinister would use him and that's what he wants, but..

One thing it did definitively show is that Xavier is willing to work on his plan but mind-wipe his collaborators so they act "normally" in the meantime, which means at least the Wheelchair Xavier stuff could be 616.
 

Seven Force

Member
Nov 30, 2017
7,212
In universe X-Men blind items are the kind of thing I didn't know I needed until today. This series has been a treat.

I can't even imagine what kinda shit will pop off in HoX#5.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,820
A friend recommended me "The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August" and after reading the premise he said to me "yeah, there was a big fuss over it". Damn Hickman. Try not to be too blatant.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
A friend recommended me "The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August" and after reading the premise he said to me "yeah, there was a big fuss over it". Damn Hickman. Try not to be too blatant.
There wasn’t a “big fuss” over it. BC posted an article. The author responded, Hickman responded, they were both complimentary and mature, and that was it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,820
There wasn’t a “big fuss” over it. BC posted an article. The author responded, Hickman responded, they were both complimentary and mature, and that was it.
She made quite a few comments about it actually and even wondered if there was a strong enough case to sue prior to Hickman's response.

The basic similarities were strong enough that I had an immediate reaction after reading the blurb on the back of the book without any prompt from anyone else or prior knowledge. There's no doubt in mind he lifted that concept either intentionally or recalled it subconsciously in the construction of his story's retcon. Personally I'd expect a professional writer to be more careful with this sort of thing.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,374
Vice City
another great issue, digging the sinister/nimrod theory here

any goes on sinister secret # 6? the other ones not answered on the last page or so seemed less relevant
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,873
There are a ton of older sci-fi stories with very similar theme, not saying Hickman didn't get influenced by this or any other story but it's hardly an original concept
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
She made quite a few comments about it actually and even wondered if there was a strong enough case to sue prior to Hickman's response.

The basic similarities were strong enough that I had an immediate reaction after reading the blurb on the back of the book without any prompt from anyone else or prior knowledge. There's no doubt in mind he lifted that concept either intentionally or recalled it subconsciously in the construction of his story's retcon. Personally I'd expect a professional writer to be more careful with this sort of thing.
Only in 2019 is a handful of tweets “quite a few comments”, but you’re right in that she did openly speculate about a lawsuit. I was happy to see Hickman keep it classy and not go that route.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
526
another great issue, digging the sinister/nimrod theory here

any goes on sinister secret # 6? the other ones not answered on the last page or so seemed less relevant
I posted on the last page. I think it's Ernst


 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,570
Organic LMD generating Chimera recipe:

Madrox (duplication) + Mystique (shapeshifting) + Hope (power mimicry) with a high level telepath as a handler, imprinting memories/personalities onto the duplicates.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,374
Vice City
I posted on the last page. I think it's Ernst


interesting - i don't know that one as much, gotta read up. CBR seems to think it's about Stryfe