Love Moira, but Destiny is best.
Read the first bit of HoX2
Put Moira in her place!
Which makes me question the role of Destiny in all of these. She can see her future and in every Moira timeline her future is bad. She does nothing? All that speech to Moira be a better part of mutantkind but what about Destiny herself? Her powers are pretty much essential as well. Makes me Thing Moira would team up with her to predict the results of her actions, because she does not have many tries.
Discussing the 616 sliding timeline would never make sense, since Marvel used to tie it to real world events like wars and news.
Take for granted the 616 timeline proposed by Hickman. The only thing worth discussing are the other Moira timelines and how they are different than Moira X timeline. Now I am wondering if House of X should be read as House of Ten (Moira) as well.
Which makes me question the role of Destiny in all of these. She can see her future and in every Moira timeline her future is bad. She does nothing? All that speech to Moira be a better part of mutantkind but what about Destiny herself? Her powers are pretty much essential as well. Makes me Thing Moira would team up with her to predict the results of her actions, because she does not have many tries.
Destiny lives for Mystique, and she's kind of a fatalist. She's not evil, but she's not good either. It's hard to tell sometimes if she would be more on xaviers side of balance or on Magnetos of superiority.
But mystique is the same way and even in Hickmans stuff she seems to be one of the few who is like "this is weird"
I have to disagree hard with the last part there, Irene was every bit for the cause as Raven and I think Hickman's take here rings pretty true. Destiny was ruthless. If anything I'd argue she was the real driving force in the duo and Raven's been largely spinning her wheels since losing her.The issue is that Destiny is a slave to the future she sees the longer out she looks. She forsaw things centuries in advance but she knows she cam only nudge those futures.
She also predicted her own death and felt there was nothing she could do to stop it. Instead she allowed it to happen and left her written prophecies behind instead.
Honestly I think the only people she even remotely cares about were Mystique and Rogue. She kind of saw the rest of humanity and mutantity as just there. If Mystique never went on a pro mutant stance, I dont think Destiny would act at all.
Yeah Destiny can be a fatalist knowing that every future is fucked. But Mystique not. She would fight. The implication her is that since Moira never tried again to cure mutants, every other Destiny (and Mystique) would not know about her and her powers. Which is fine until you realize than they should have crossed paths (or at least indirectly with the X-men) in 616 allowing Destiny to discover Moira.
But what I meant is the opposite way, Moira keeps her knowledge. Why she never tried to use Destiny powers to check if her actions would be fruitful. Of course, that will reveals herself to Destiny.
Edited: besides it, every Moira action on each timeline after the first affects the mutantkind as much as a mutant cure. Meaning the Destiny should always be aware of her.
Love Moira, but Destiny is best.
Read the first bit of HoX2
Put Moira in her place!
I also love the implication here that mutants here that mutants as a species are just generally smarter and more adept than humans, hence Moira being a wunderkind even in her first life.
I missed Hickman dialogue soooooo much. This and Magneto and Cyke in HOX #1 totally have that Avengers feel.
Wait isn't Destiny and Moira the same person now...? Wasn't that a thing?
I also love the implication here that mutants here that mutants as a species are just generally smarter and more adept than humans, hence Moira being a wunderkind even in her first life.
I don't know....nevermind
Yes, but no, but yes cause comics.Wait isn't Destiny and Moira the same person now...? Wasn't that a thing?
When I reread the issue yesterday, one thing Destiny said really stuck out to me, in an inception.gif way : when talking about Moira's next life, she says "I am much older than you are. My powers will have manifested, full of the knowledge of what we have done."
Think he means the Moira from necrosha that turned out to be destiny
When I reread the issue yesterday, one thing Destiny said really stuck out to me, in an inception.gif way : when talking about Moira's next life, she says "I am much older than you are. My powers will have manifested, full of the knowledge of what we have done."
The italicizing is not mine.
She goes on with "you see, Moira, we are joined now"
Destiny definitely implies that having met Moira in one of her lives, her powers work so that she (Destiny) will always know about Moira's powers in all her subsequent reincarnations. Destiny finding out about Moira only had to happen once.
That wasn't Necrosha, it was a different Dead X-Men mini. Destiny was Destiny in Necrosha, although Proteus attached himself to her.Think he means the Moira from necrosha that turned out to be destiny
You're being too literal here. Destiny found moira originally because Moira would have been personally, directly responsible for wiping out mutantkind (and presumably Destiny herself) via her "cure."
Do later things Moira does affect mutantkind? Yes, but she isn't the cause of its extinction in each life, she simply can't prevent it, much like every other mutant can't prevent it. Destiny would never "see" her actions as a personal threat. Its implied that in every life the rise of machines is inevitable and will devastate mutantkind. Moira has nothing to do with this.
Destiny can't "see" Moiras presence as a mutant, just her absence. She's described as a blank spot where something should be but nothing is. Once Destiny knows what to look for this defense is ineffective but Destiny will have to rediscover this in each timeline- and she literally had to be looking right at Moira for this to be possible.
Moira was a wunderkind in her SECOND life because she retained information from her first.
Her first life was an unremarkable one as a schoolteacher.
Hrm? I didn't really catch that. It just said that she became a teacher and married and had kids and a normal life for the first life. For the second life it explicitly says that people thought she was gifted at an early age, but she really wasn't special and just knew how to do things like read, write, and walk from her previous life.
When I reread the issue yesterday, one thing Destiny said really stuck out to me, in an inception.gif way : when talking about Moira's next life, she says "I am much older than you are. My powers will have manifested, full of the knowledge of what we have done."
The italicizing is not mine.
She goes on with "you see, Moira, we are joined now"
Destiny definitely implies that having met Moira in one of her lives, her powers work so that she (Destiny) will always know about Moira's powers in all her subsequent reincarnations. Destiny finding out about Moira only had to happen once.
I'm also reminded of Age of X where the "Moira" persona in Legion's head called herself X. Hickman also said he was a fan of Carey's X-work, deservedly so as Carey's one of the unsung greats.
I don't have the issue in front of me now so I'm gonna botch it, but there's a line where he writes something about how AI/machines are like fire: it's not invented, just discovered, and Trask happened to be the first one burned by it. And I was like, damn, that's a good simile!I missed Hickman dialogue soooooo much. This and Magneto and Cyke in HOX #1 totally have that Avengers feel.
I have to disagree hard with the last part there, Irene was every bit for the cause as Raven and I think Hickman's take here rings pretty true. Destiny was ruthless. If anything I'd argue she was the real driving force in the duo and Raven's been largely spinning her wheels since losing her.
I also found it interesting how Life 6 is left out completely, or did I miss something.
At the end of one of the recent runs I didnt read, according to Wiki, Moira had the ghost of Destiny in her head.
Literally sold these comics to 2 friends. Hope they're even half as amazed as I've been
I still have to disagree. If anything this characterization seems to more reflect Mystique who's never moved past Destiny's death or gone back to really fighting for the mutant cause. She's just bounced from revenge plot to revenge plot, with the occasional arc where she obsesses over Rogue or avoids Kurt. She's been stuck and rudderless for 3 decades now.Oh I have no doubt that Destiny was entirely ruthless. But I think she was ruthless for mystique's sake not her own or mutantkinds.
It has been implied that Destiny knew the day she would die the day her powers activated.
I would argue the reason she was so ruthless was because she wanted to complete mystique's plans before she died. Because she knew Raven would just start spinning her wheels after Destiny died.
I still have to disagree. If anything this characterization seems to more reflect Mystique who's never moved past Destiny's death or gone back to really fighting for the mutant cause. She's just bounced from revenge plot to revenge plot, with the occasional arc where she obsesses over Rogue or avoids Kurt. She's been stuck and rudderless for 3 decades now.
Irene was always less fixated on Raven than vice versa. She loved Raven but Raven wasn't her entire life, she kept her secrets (the Diaries, Blindfold & her brother, her death, etc). Don't confuse her personal fatalism with her mutant solidarity either, she was fighting the good fight since the 1920s and I'd argue precogs have a much different perspective on death generally.
Every time I see crazy sentinel stuff I think of Ultron. Robots taking over and he's missing, Annihilation Conquest Ultron would have hijacked all this shit.
Totally fair. To nerd out a little more I'd love to read about Raven & Irene's earlier history where Mystique was living as a man and they had a detective agency in 20s London while traveling around Europe fighting fascism. We got a taste of that in True Friends and a few references to it in Exiles but I need more. They also knew Logan back then.Those are all very fair points to be honest. Things I never really considered. I'm going to mull those over for a while. I always like getting a fresh perspective because my partner and I rarely have different interpretations of comics so we are a bit bubbled sometimes.
Or maybe Powers of X is Moira VI and House of X is Moira X?My 12th crazy theory of the day: 616 is indeed Moira X but everything we're seeing now is Moira 6.
is it at all possible that Hickman is intending to retcon whole swaths of X-Men history as separate Moira lives? Marvel's sliding timeline just compresses an impossible amount of near-extinction level events for mutants in such a small amount of time, and I wonder if effectively creating 10 X-Men timelines here is a workaround meant to accommodate all that history and/or all the many alternate futures presented over the years?
Man, that sleight of hand could actually work. I guess the biggest issue would be that PoX year 10 and HoX play out very similarly.
Shout out to The Invaders-another great current book.