It is. He's already said it's not an alt-universe story. And it couldn't be for these reveals to be as shocking they are.
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It is. He's already said it's not an alt-universe story. And it couldn't be for these reveals to be as shocking they are.
I think outside of comics, Destiny only appeared in X-Men Legends 2, and X-Men Evolution.
Would be nice to see her pop up some more, cause I really love the part with her talking to Moira.
Holy shit her expression at the end there lol.
Would be nice to see her pop up some more, cause I really love the part with her talking to Moira.
From his FF run.
Holy shit her expression at the end there lol.
Namor has been a central figure in Hickman's FF and Avengers, I hope he makes a return for X-Men. Does anyone know if he is still hung up on Emma Frost?
I really like Hickman's stuff personally, but so many strange questions pop up after each issue i think it might be too dense for the audience.
Not that I disagree that 616 is the 10th but there's no reason that if this isn't 616 that the universe in the 11th is also the same as 616 up until HOX and POX.
There is no 11th. Moira isn't even guaranteed an 11th. Destiny said she *might* get one if she makes the right decision.
If there IS an 11th, its a good opportunity to edit out a lot of inconvenient or unwieldy continuity and reset the status quo on the X-men...which will probably be the case.
Namor is busy being EXTREMELY CRAZY in Avengers and Invaders right now. Atlantis is basically at war with the rest of the world again and Namor is having hallucinations.
Well she isn't guaranteed an 11th but they mentioned it so I'm assuming it's Chevoks weird reincarnated multiverse at this point.
Agree with what you say though, but surely that would have a massive effect on 616 as a whole? It would have to be that 11 is 616 all along, wouldn't it?
Not really. Continuity changes all the time, and 99% of what happens in the X-books is only ever referred to within the X-books themselves.
Edit: Ultimates 2 kind of commented on this, saying that the past of 616 is just as fluid as the future, using Blue Marvel as an in-universe example. From his perspective he had always existed, but the abstract powers were aware he was a retcon and an example of the past changing itself.
There are only a handful of marvel events that are a "constant" along the sliding timeline- from an Xmen perspective i think only Xavier forming the X-men, Giant Size Xmen, and Dark Phoenix really fit that bill.
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I think it would be weird for Hickman tonuse Moira's 11th Live to reset or change the continuity. Secret Wars already provided the perfect grounds for it and Hickman is not one of pulling the same tricks again.
Just noticed typing that the last of the Moira's lives is her 11th hour.
Depends on how big the change is. Secret Wars set up a universe thats 99% similar to the one that came before, but allows writers to ignore certain parts of continuity if its inconvenient.
If Hickman wants to radically reposition the Xmen and their relationship with the MU (especially given that they will be integrated into the MCU with the Fox buy) something more significant than the mulligan given out by Secret Wars might be necessary.
And honestly, the biggest issue with the Xmen and the wider MU has always been SHIELD/The Government actively manufacturing skyscraper sized mutant killing robots, and the Avengers etc just choosing to ignore it.
That worked ok when the Avengers/Xmen/Spiderman books existed in their own sandboxes, but its bizarre in the more highly integrated universe that currently exists.
Okay so it's best just not to worry? This is the first comic I've ever read as it comes out so the only time I've really thought too much about continuity. I tend to pick stuff up and read them as they are, though it were a single story within a context I always roughly know.
That's how I read Hickman's other work and some of the Daredevil stuff.
Which is even crazier as Destiny was in the 90s Cartoon and X-men Evolution.
And Moria's name was pronounced for them in two X-Men movies.
I know it's comic books and dead characters showing up isn't unusual, but this got me laughing really, really hard.
Long answer: Sentinels and the rise of machines were always a big part of X-Men mythos and I am having a hard time trying to figure out how it would work/be solved, even with continuity changes.
Short answer: in Hickman we trust.
Right answer: Cyclops was right.
The Xavier Files annotations have taught me that this stuff is aggressively dense even if you know comics lmao
1.) This is true, but at some point it became clarified that the same people running/funding the Avengers were also running the sentinel program and this is a mess. The rise of sentinels and machine AI can still be a thing, but having Tony/Cap/Nick Fury/Maria Hill/etc complicit and/or unconcerned about their own teammates being murdered by the government they work for is flat out weird. They can/should exist, but probably not run by SHIELD or the DoD.
2.) It seems Hickman is setting the stage to eliminate this one entirely. At some point prior to year 1000, mutants and Nimrod simply cease the conflict and coexist after a "surprising result." If this result could be discovered and implemented before both sides wipe each other out, you have an Xmen continuity without the ever present threat of destruction via sentinels.
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In HoX #2 we see Moira and Apocalypse mowing down Nimrod & co in the future - I wonder if that's part of the "surprise".
In the comics The Avengers have almost always been privately funded. 1st through Tony Stark and now through T'Challa.
The only time the Avengers have ever been run by the government is during the post-civil War era. When Tony Stark was Director of SHIELD.
And Norman's Dark Avengers when he was Director of HAMMER.
The Avengers have almost always had some sort of government liaison, but have never actually been run or controlled by the government.
The movies take more inspiration from the Ultimate Universe. Where the Ultimates were a group funded and run by SHIELD.
Edit I might be forgetting a couple moments in comic history but as a whole they usually are their own private group
I was about to say, you will not be forgetting Henry Gyrich
Kinda. There was a period where Gyrich was their laison and was dictating how the group operated. This is why Falcon initially became a member- his participation was government mandated.
Edit: Spider-Man was offered membership by Cap in the 80s as well, but that offer had to be rescinded because they couldn't get clearance for him due to Jameson smearing him as a public menace.
Even when they're privately funded, as via stark or parker, the Avengers are authorized agents of the US government and issued credentials and badges to carry out their work.
They closely work with and are affiliated with SHIELD and the US government, and this was made explicit during Civil War II. Carol answered to an oversight committee and was using her authority to arrest people who had not yet committed crimes and throw them into government prisons.
The current implementation of Aaron's Avengers is the first time that hasnt been true in a long time- but that team is not based in the United States and is affiliated with Wakanda instead of the US.
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That was in life 9- the one that ended with an endless war between apocalypse and the machines. I don't see the "surprising" result coming from there.
The surprise from that life is gonna be that Moira still loves Apocalypse. Make out cover smooch smooch
I don't even ask questions anymore. And when it comes to speculating, I find it more akin to spitballing when talking about Hickman books.
I mean during the Gyrich era. There was definitely more oversight from the government. But I never really saw them as part of the government, more like independent contractors. And even then they'd chaff against him and do there own thing
But thier status wouldn't make them necessarily privy to everything the government was up to regarding Sentinels.
In fact two plot points for Civil War 1 were that
1- the SRA was basically making Superheroes into SHIELD agents.
2- Tony had just discovered that Project Wide-Awake was a thing and an option to use against rebellious heroes.
The events of Civil War II are a little different. Carol is indeed both a member of SHIELD a member of the US Air Force. She absolute has oversight over her and her actions. Just like IRL in theory, a member of the US military still represents the military when out of uniform.
At that point the SRA had been overturned out of nowhere and if she has decided to do what she did without SHIELD she could have in theory operated without oversight. But the airman in her won out like it did in the first Civil War and she got them involved.
I'm not saying that the Avengers have never had to answer to the US government or something like that, I'm just saying that they have widely been independent of the government and probably not privy to confidential material such as Sentinel program.
Thats the thing- the Sentinel program isn't confidential at all. Its an open secret who is making those, and Maria Hill freely admitted it when cyclops confronted her during Uncanny.
Edit: this also ignores the sentinel squad ONE stuff proposed by Val cooper. Not a secret, public knowledge.
If maria knows and is open about shield's role in their manufacture, then Stark knows, because stark was also a director. There is also NO WAY Rogers also doesn't know, he was a Shield Division Chief during the old man rogers era.
Panther absolutely knows, his entire schtick is knowing exactly what the US government is doing and being better at it.
The entire upper eschelon of the Avengers has been hip deep in what Shield has done for a very long time. None of them have bothered to intervene in the Sentinel program or even raise it as an issue. This is particularly inexcusable for Rogers (who formed the unity squad to improve human/mutant/inhuman relations) and Panther who is married to storm.
Its a very strange situation that marvel ignores but does not address.
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Finally read HoX #2.
I love how quickly it launches right into the fuckery. The "Moira's second life began..." line made me do a double take.
I love how quickly it launches right into the fuckery. The "Moira's second life began..." line made me do a double take.
10th life, since the opening scene in PoX 1 is repeated in HoX 2.
There were some bleeding cool rumors that both companies were interested in having him back and he ultimately decided to return to Marvel. I could see him there in a couple of years doing some Sovereign Seven kind of thing (that was joke, ok?)
Oh right, I forgot about that scene and the part where Mystique gives the USB stick to Xavier.
He's already stated he has a few dream projects over at DC, so will probably end up there eventually. Either way, we win.
Fair Point. But Project Wide-Awake was confidential as Tony only learned of it when he was working with the government during Civil War.
I think Hickman is planning on addressing that though given the nature of the scene between Cyclops and the Fantastic Four.
I have always wanted someone to ask Sue, " what are you going to do when the Sentinels come for your child"
Incoming Ambush Bug infographics!
I think it's especially weird because what really makes Sue or the others different from mutants?
- Receiving powers at puberty through a genetic quirk: Abominable! A menace! They could do something bad, so let's round up/exerminate them all.
- Receiving powers in a science accident: Totally cool and acceptable to most everyone but J. Jonah Jameson.
Did the Sentinels stop hunting Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch/Squirrel Girl when they went "actually, it turns out we're not mutants"?
The end is, there isn't.
Pretty much every version of the Sentinels win future has shown that after the mutants are done all super humans are next.
It's sort of the Superhuman version of "First they came for..."
Pretty much every version of the Sentinels win future has shown that after the mutants are done all super humans are next.
It's sort of the Superhuman version of "First they came for..."
Hickman's position is that the genoshan genocide is all that prevented mutants from having surpassed humanity as the dominant species on the planet. (this ignores the terrigen cloud and wanda's decimation, both of which SHOULD have been worse) As it is, Hickman estimates humanity will be in the minority in 20 years.
Funky math aside, there's no way mutants are breeding fast enough to replace humanity in a single generation. There's 7 billion people on earth, it's just not possible. The only way this works is if we aren't talking about people breeding and having kids, but an exponentially faster rate of mutants appearing due to activation of dormant X-genes.
The fantastic four, spiderman, and similar got their powers by accident, and even if 100% of their children were powered, they aren't a threat to replace humanity. X-gene activation is, however.
I find it interesting that professor X's artwork reminds me so much of Ultimate Reed Richards/The Maker. Eerily so.
Never played that one. Was it any good?You kidding me? She had her own game
You kidding me? She had her own game
She is not even on the boxart!
I'm just making jokes. Destiny isn't in this, despite the name. The game is TERRIBLE and should never, ever be played.
That being said I DO own a sealed copy of this, because the story behind it is something else:
It's crazy stuff. and to make things even weirder:
TL:DR- Silicon Knights pitched an Xmen game to Activision but under false pretenses, they had no actual intention of completing and finishing the game as promised. They instead intended to use a significant portion of the funds for Xmen to develop Eternal Darkness 2 behind the scenes. This plan blew up when Activision simply called their bluff and decided they were going to ship whatever hot mess SK had by the due date, finished or not.
A massive crunch ensued to finish Xmen and prevent a complete catastrophe, but in the process Silicon Knights heavily plagiarized huge portions of Epic's unreal engine 3 code (which they also did for Too Human). A subsequent lawsuit resulted in a judge ordering every unsold copy of Too Human and Xmen recalled from retail and the source code destroyed.
You will never, EVER see this game re-released in any form.
I own a copy just because it's a completely bizarre piece of game development trivia.
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This is genuinely the only game I think I hate. Kotor/Mass Effect but with X-Men is such a fucking easy layup and SK genuinely had no intention of making it.You kidding me? She had her own game