Actually Rogue wasn't an adult when she joined, she was still 17. Kurt was but just barely at 19.
I'm sorry if my skepticism shocks you but I have the actual track record of these books to inform me. It's warranted, not wild.
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I'm sorry if my skepticism shocks you but I have the actual track record of these books to inform me. It's warranted, not wild.
This thread is about the comics. Everybody in here reads them.
You doing that well actually bit about ages and ignoring everything else I said might work elsewhere but you don't have some sacred knowledge the rest of us don't. We all got Marvel Unlimited.
Wasn't the super secret location one the cradle that was placed in the White Hot Room
The fact you're this touchy about a simple correction is actually wild.
gotta find other ways to deflect since the comic book guy routine didn't work, i feel you.
It's funny cause you could have just said the first line of your post and no one would have batted an eye... but then you made the second line to be a total ass and that's just not cool, man.
Be more welcoming and not holier-than-thou and you would avoid all this ire coming your way
Look, despite having lived before joining the X-Men all these characters pretty much came up within the team and don't have too much in terms of connective tissue or narrative beats wholly outside that capacity. And literally with these three (Storm, Rogue, Nightcrawler) they've tried to do solos, some repeatedly, and they've never passed a year. Some in eras where that wasn't a real feat either, unlike today's market.
And some of those solos were legitimately good stuff (Aguirre-Sacassa's NC, Pak's Storm, etc). It didn't matter, the audience simply didn't want them and I'll remain skeptical about that suddenly changing.
Be more welcoming? Like using mocking language and comic-book guy insults? Because I dared, well, correct a correction?
Maybe take a step back and look at who's behaving how before lecturing me about manners.
I can't argue that previous solo runs with Storm, Rogue, and Kurt were massive successes*, but it's simply not because these characters don't have rich backgrounds outside of being X-Men. Claremont gave them as much, if not more, dimension as Wolverine in those early years.
I respect being skeptical about the Phoenix and Storm runs lasting long, but they're undeniably very popular characters. A-listers where Logan is an S-lister. And popular characters just need to be in the right hands with the right push at the right time to do well.
*Ewing's 3 year run in the Krakoa Era has been dedicated to Storm solos in all but name
I think I probably wasn't clear enough but the character backgrounding is just one element really and more of a jumping off thing. The core issue with X-Solos is really about fanbase expectations and how they're used to digesting these characters. Even though the premise is nominally based around school, the core draw of the X-Men, New Mutants, X-Factor, Excalibur, Gen X, etc, is really in being found family and the organic connections and relationships therein. And I think that's a big part in why solos have had so much trouble breaking out versus the Avengers or Heroes Office titles (aka: work friends). These characters are defined within the ensemble and that's just what people seem to want really.
And I should probably make clear, I hope I'm wrong about these solos lasting. I think they're interesting premises and Storm especially could still be an ensemble title depending on her staff (Sunspot? Callisto? Bishop? maybe some deeper cuts like Vange Whedon or Sabra? ... or maybe not Sabra, lol). Throwing Jean into cosmic is a good approach too with so much room to explore and really go any direction and still with some good X-Connections with the Shi'ar, Starjammers, Brood, etc. I'm hoping for the best here, just bracing for the usual.
You make a good point on X-Men Red, though I think Magneto shared spotlight pretty equally in the first half, and this isn't even really a new concept. X-Men Legacy was built around this premise, a solo character focus steeped in continuity but holding the "X-Men" title basically to mitigate risk and trick the fanbase into actually buying it. And it did have 3 very well regarded runs, two with Carey (Xavier, Rogue) and then Spurrier's X-Debut (Legion). Actually Claremont's 2014 Nightcrawler series (which I liked a lot but ymmv) was also originally planned to be a 4th Legacy volume.
Well, it's all but definite now that Prisoner X is Xavier after all the shit he pulled today.
I love the seed planted (pun almost intended?) about those left on the White-Hot Krakoa while the more "combat useful" mutants went back to the real world. Whether they keep them there for some other writer to pick up years later or they resolve it with the finale, it's a great dangling plot point for anyone to work with later.
I think I really and truly like Destiny as a leader and I hope we get to see her in this role in the future (and for the good guys).
One interesting thought that came to me is how both the mutant heroes and villains could return to their pre-Krakoa roles only with both of them not looking for harmony and peace with the humans, but in rebuilding the paradise of Krakoa... it's more tangible, being a real and living thing, and could be a sort of McGuffin for the mutants to chase/protect. That would return us to the status quo but with a more interesting twist, in my opinion.
Also, this really feels like we've gone back to the quality of stories we expected to see from the early part of Krakoa. These issues not only were happening at the same time, but really felt well done.
I love the seed planted (pun almost intended?) about those left on the White-Hot Krakoa while the more "combat useful" mutants went back to the real world. Whether they keep them there for some other writer to pick up years later or they resolve it with the finale, it's a great dangling plot point for anyone to work with later.
I think I really and truly like Destiny as a leader and I hope we get to see her in this role in the future (and for the good guys).
One interesting thought that came to me is how both the mutant heroes and villains could return to their pre-Krakoa roles only with both of them not looking for harmony and peace with the humans, but in rebuilding the paradise of Krakoa... it's more tangible, being a real and living thing, and could be a sort of McGuffin for the mutants to chase/protect. That would return us to the status quo but with a more interesting twist, in my opinion.
Also, this really feels like we've gone back to the quality of stories we expected to see from the early part of Krakoa. These issues not only were happening at the same time, but really felt well done.
It's nice to have confirmation that Xavier has a plan or something, but I don't understand how this is all arranged. It feels like we should have been informed about Xavier before seeing him show up out of nowhere in Fall as a traitor, but we also needed to see Apocalypse resurrect Krakoa before this.
Anyway, this is getting pretty disorganized. And Forever feels like "things that didn't fit in Rise" all the time. I wonder how many mutants are going to stay in the White Hot Room.
Anyway, this is getting pretty disorganized. And Forever feels like "things that didn't fit in Rise" all the time. I wonder how many mutants are going to stay in the White Hot Room.
I mean, one could say that about the rest of the tie-in issues, or any story arc in the Krakoa period, and you are right. It is telling the other side of the same story happening concurrently.
That being said, it is, so far, keeping to its original premise of following the story of those sent to the White-Hot Krakoa. As such, I see no objection to the way it's being organized.
Final got caught up last week on a plane ride. I'm pretty vocal about how terrible the comic format of having one story losely bounce around 9 different books, but I felt more annoyed than usual with the end of the X-Men book being a giant spoiler is you read things in slightly the wind order.
Haven't been this annoyed with comics since X-Men red
basically died off screen.
Haven't been this annoyed with comics since X-Men red
magneto
I guess, but I think it gives me a constant feeling of redundancy. We see as a surprise in Rise that Sinister is alive and then in Forever we see him being resurrected. I don't really need that separate explanation, it gives the feeling of being rushed while spending too much time on other things.
And I have some tonal problems with the story. "Fall is over, it's time for Spring." Ok, but we already know that Krakoa is not going to exist in From the Ashes. And there is still no good reason for this within the story, unless Apocalypse, after dragging Krakoa across an entire ocean, decides to take it to Mars. But there's no mutant going "Yeah, Krakoa should be disbanded."
I imagine Xavier is planning to martyr himself with something like "I'm the bad guy, Krakoa was my idea and mine alone, leave the rest of the mutants alone", but still...
By the way, Percy in Wolverine finally showed Logan's secret plan with Forge in X-Force #1. It's even more ridiculous than I expected.
Yeah, I agree with most of your points and those come from the format... but I also think they have a few issues left to wrap it all up in a nice bow and I'm hopeful they can do that.
I guess all my complaints on the fall of krakoa storylines falls on teh heads of editorial; the story is mostly there but there doesn't seem to have been an editor overseeing it and ensuring that issues are read in order (like with the warning in today's X-Men Forever) or even that they are released in reading order (as with a lot of the tie-in issues coming out weeks to months before the relevant X-Men issue). The pacing and other story issues aren't that bad, imo, but are made worse by a poor editor... or maybe the editor was simply overwhelmed!?
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With the sudden cancellation in November of all post-Krakoa plans from the current editorial team (New X-Men), I imagine this is the typical "We have to close everything quickly for the next team" situation and that's always chaotic.
Unfortunately, there have been many endings with this bittersweet feeling lately in Marvel. It's not even something I can point at the current writers or editors and blame them for.
Kate is always right.
Actually rather enjoyed everything today. The Avengers tie in especially was very satisfying to me because I am a 3D Man fan and I was quite upset at him working for Orchis.
Actually rather enjoyed everything today. The Avengers tie in especially was very satisfying to me because I am a 3D Man fan and I was quite upset at him working for Orchis.
They just needed more time. All the beats are there, but it's rhythmically a mess.
Kinda makes it more upsetting than if it was straight up wack.
It's kinda where I'm at. It is satisfying to see all the pieces fall into place and, me personally, see the non-mutants finally do something to fight orchis this whole part. It's just been a messy and sometimes tiring read.
What a weird way to spread the events between the two issues today...
Honestly yeah, just a lot of good story beats haphazardly put together to finish in time.
I feel like its very rushed and its been strange for many months now.
He's gone full Beast /s
"It's Spring" should have hit so hard, but I don't even know what a Spring of X is supposed to mean with From the Ashes looming.
It's just that the whole 'betray the ones I care about but in actuality have a secret plan to save them all' is incredibly cliche and thin. Xavier isn't really a character right now -- just a plot device to move the event along.
Actually, that probably goes for almost all the characters in this arc so far -- perhaps why it's so unsatisfying.
I do think that when it's collected at a trade or an Omni it will read better.
Put on still enjoying it So what do I know.
Everyone else has decided to hate on this even though originally this would have happened two years ago.
Put on still enjoying it So what do I know.
Everyone else has decided to hate on this even though originally this would have happened two years ago.