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Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
There's obviously a lot of people who still won't ever admit it but Microsoft and Samsung are making better products so you know something is wrong. Even on the software side Android is there now.

Looking back the iPhone 4 was probably the pinnacle. They were so far ahead of the competition but those days long gone.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,277
The notch just covers space where the status bar is. What's the big deal?

Because now I'd have less of a status bar for notification alerts. Also it's ugly. Why would I pay premium pricing when I can go out and get something like the Essential Phone or Mi Mix 2 for half the price?

That's cool.

I don't get the complaints about design. Everything has looked great alongside the competition.

I mean, there's a reason why Chinese OEMs copy their design and nobody else's

The Chinese OEMs have no reason to copy their design when they're outdoing them. For some reason Apple products have become a status symbol but that image is quickly changing, even among the older generation that seems to lag behind culturally.
xiaomi-mi-mix2-41.jpg
essential-phone-front-back-w782.jpg

Up against flagships (which are still about $200 cheaper) I don't think the design holds up either
 
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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
What's supposed to be bad here

Apple pen charges quick from the device nothing else needed

If companies would embrace the new usb c standard then dongles wouldn't be an issue

The battery case is not bulky and is light

Bluetooth is a thing

Lol.

This is probably why Apple is one of the few who can get away with such poor design decisions.
 

meppi64

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
Hopefully something gives, because Apples design work on some of their key products has been somewhat uninspired or lacklustre in recent years. The iPhone 6/7/8 design ethos was never particularly good imo, and the X with its notch is also similarly questionable.

On top of that, they've been responsible for some truly hilariously bad design choices too, like these.

DLNJJwvWsAARE-U.jpg
The fuck is that?!

My magic mouse is pretty old and I'll be needing a new one in the foreseeable future. But no way am I buying this crap.
Please tell me there are still regular battery powered ones out there. :-/
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,277

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
I have said for a couple of years that Apple needs to complete the new HQ so that its best designers can get back to making great products. It's been evident the big guns have spent much more time on door handles and world's biggest curved glass windows than consumer products.
 

smuf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
533
I hope this means they'll fix the MacBook Pro line. It was perfect before the touchbar update and I'm long due for a new one.
 

meppi64

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
Ever consider getting an Arc Touch Mouse? They're selling pretty cheap these days too.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/micros...n-mouse-dark-titanium/2265102.p?skuId=2265102
Never even heard about it before just now.
Looks rather weird to be honest. Not sure if I'd find it comfortable.
I'd have to try it out in a store myself before jumping onto this one.

And I've been using a magic mouse ever since they came out. Even had the old one with the little scroll ball that would stop working time and again since it collected dust and dirt.
So I'd rather stick with what feels good for me, but that usb connection is just so damn stupid. What were they even thinking?
How long does it take to charge it that way btw? If it's super fast, I'd might have to deal with it, but I won't be happy with it, that's for sure. :P
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
That mouse with the charging port on the bottom is one of the worst goddamn designs in history. I hate it so much.

Because now I'd have less of a status bar for notification alerts. Also it's ugly. Why would I pay premium pricing when I can go out and get something like the Essential Phone or Mi Mix 2 for half the price?
Because the rest of the phone is also better?

If you're willing to have a worse screen, camera and battery life, then yeah pay half the price. They aren't cheaper because the design is better (which is debatable. I like the Mi Mix 2's design more than the iPhone X but the Essential's tiny notch is for some reason even uglier to me than the X's.) The Mi Mix 2 also comes with a terrible OEM skin on top of Android to ruin the experience.

The flagships are definitely a better comparison though, in particular Samsung who have been outshining Apple's hardware for a couple of years now.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
That mouse charges in like 15 minutes. Just put it down, take a break and then it's charged. The jokes surrounding it are so over-blown...
 

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,573
Canadia
That mouse charges in like 15 minutes. Just put it down, take a break and then it's charged. The jokes surrounding it are so over-blown...

I think the complaints are less about the way the thing works in practise (I have one and love it), and more about the design philosophy: "you will not use our mouse with a wire!" I have a huge issue with the philosophy behind the port choice, but don't find it hampers my use of the mouse in the real world. I can see someone being sufficiently irritated by the reasoning behind the design that they'd want to avoid the product though, and I think that's totally reasonable.

Same with the notch. I don't mind it at all, but the idea that it's taking up more screen space than is necessary just for brand visibility is incredibly off-putting.
 

Beef Stallmer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
875
That mouse with the charging port on the bottom is one of the worst goddamn designs in history. I hate it so much.


Because the rest of the phone is also better?

If you're willing to have a worse screen, camera and battery life, then yeah pay half the price. They aren't cheaper because the design is better (which is debatable. I like the Mi Mix 2's design more than the iPhone X but the Essential's tiny notch is for some reason even uglier to me than the X's.) The Mi Mix 2 also comes with a terrible OEM skin on top of Android to ruin the experience.

The flagships are definitely a better comparison though, in particular Samsung who have been outshining Apple's hardware for a couple of years now.

Those are even worse compared to apple. After 2 minutes, a flagship Snapdragon 835 phone like Note 8 (same price as iPhone X) has less than half of the performance.

It will be even worse next year.

Eh, in real world scenarios that never really matters.

I understand your excuses;
-who cares about browser performance : mine is fast enough
-who cares about 3d performance: i don't play games
-who cares about memory speeds: i don't mind waiting a few seconds
-who cares about video editing: who needs video editing lol
-who cares about AR or VR: those are gimmicks lol
-who cares about computer assisted photography: use a real camera

If processing power doesn't matter in real scenarios, then you could use the 4+ year old iPhone 5S or something :-)
 
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kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
I think the complaints are less about the way the thing works in practise (I have one and love it), and more about the design philosophy: "you will not use our mouse with a wire!" I have a huge issue with the philosophy behind the port choice, but don't find it hampers my use of the mouse in the real world. I can see someone being sufficiently irritated by the reasoning behind the design that they'd want to avoid the product though, and I think that's totally reasonable.

Same with the notch. I don't mind it at all, but the idea that it's taking up more screen space than is necessary just for brand visibility is incredibly off-putting.

I agree with you in that their philosophy is often too restrictive for their own good. Altought I do like that most of the time and it's one of the reasons I like Apple's products even if their approach isn't always one I agree with.

What annoys me about the mouse complains is that most come from people who don't use the mouse, just see the image and then complain. Like most Apple discussions these days it revolves around that instead of meaningful criticisms like yours and others. I don't think these posts are in good faith like you say. I don't think they would ever buy it or consider it regardless of where the port was.

Apple has a clear "we want you to use it this way" approach to product design that can be off-putting but these posts come around so often that I just see them as "it's easy to mock Apple" when most people who use their products either are fine with them or express other complains.

In here we have people complaining about phones they don't use, mouses they don't use and keyboards they don't use. It's tiring.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
That mouse charges in like 15 minutes. Just put it down, take a break and then it's charged. The jokes surrounding it are so over-blown...
There is no good reason the charging port isn't on the front so you could work uninterrupted. What if you're on a deadline? What if you're feeling the flow? It's a garbage design and if ms or Samsung had done it there'd be gifs as far as the eye can see. And don't get me started on the pencil. Source : I use an iMac in my home office and a pro on the road.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
There is no good reason the charging port isn't on the front so you could work uninterrupted. What if you're on a deadline? What if you're feeling the flow? It's a garbage design and if ms or Samsung had done it there'd be gifs as far as the eye can see. And don't get me started on the pencil. Source : I use an iMac in my home office and a pro on the road.

Their idea is, I think, to prevent you from using it as a wired mouse. You can't. It's intentional. It still might suck for those use cases but those 15 minutes aren't a problem for 90 per cent of the other use cases.

What's the problem with the pencil again? It comes with a charging adapter to plug to a socket like a normal gadget and also allows you to charge it using your iPad if you don't have a charger and need a charge. What's so wrong with it?
 

porcupixel

Member
Oct 26, 2017
324
That mouse charges in like 15 minutes. Just put it down, take a break and then it's charged. The jokes surrounding it are so over-blown...
Takes mine about an hour to charge 100%. And I use it while I'm working, so I literally cannot just "take a break." For any sane office it's a clear negative over the previous design (stock AA batteries) because when those ran out I could just walk to the supply closet, grab a new pair and pop them in. Total time inconvenienced: about 1 minute. With this design, I have to awkwardly reach farther to use my Macbook's touch screen perched on a laptop stand until the thing is sufficiently charged for at least half an hour. There's literally no functional gain over the previous design, it's purely about Apple wanting to unify the design ethos around built-in irreplaceable parts, and it's definitely a net-negative for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,095
Sweden
The Pencil charging is actually fantastic design.

I've had many moments where I grab my pencil and it's out of juice. Just pop it in, a few minutes later it's ready to go for even longer writing sessions.

It's not supposed to be the normal way you charge it. They include an adapter in the box for that. But for emergency situations where you need power, I couldn't imagine a simpler way with the stuff you normally have with you.
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Seems really similar to the headphone issue to me. People are living with it and justifying their purchases for the most part.

I would have put up with the notch, too, but I'm holding out on switching over to the X version of the iPhone until next year at least to see if they bring back Touch ID. You see plenty of people defending the removal of that, too, but it doesn't mean tons of people wouldn't prefer having it.

I really wish they'd bring TouchID back too but didn't they like officially say in some interview that it's dead?
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,840
Their idea is, I think, to prevent you from using it as a wired mouse. You can't. It's intentional. It still might suck for those use cases but those 15 minutes aren't a problem for 90 per cent of the other use cases.

What's the problem with the pencil again? It comes with a charging adapter to plug to a socket like a normal gadget and also allows you to charge it using your iPad if you don't have a charger and need a charge. What's so wrong with it?

Wait, what? The design is intentional so you don't use it while charging?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
is that really how the pencil charges?
The pencil has a small adapter to plug it into a lightning cable. In the rare instances I've had to charge it while out and about, I connect it to the iPad for like 15 seconds and I'm good from then on. You kind of have to go out of your way to carry it around with the pencil sticking out to make it a problem.

The alternative to this is to drop this second method of charging and make you rely on a cable alone.
 

Cochese

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
6,960
The pencil has a small adapter to plug it into a lightning cable. In the rare instances I've had to charge it while out and about, I connect it to the iPad for like 15 seconds and I'm good from then on. You kind of have to go out of your way to carry it around with the pencil sticking out to make it a problem.

The alternative to this is to drop this second method of charging and make you rely on a cable alone.

Yup, it's not a big deal at all.
 

Chekhonte

User banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,886
The pencil has a small adapter to plug it into a lightning cable. In the rare instances I've had to charge it while out and about, I connect it to the iPad for like 15 seconds and I'm good from then on. You kind of have to go out of your way to carry it around with the pencil sticking out to make it a problem.

The alternative to this is to drop this second method of charging and make you rely on a cable alone.
Got it, that makes a lot more sense. I've been toying with the idea of getting one but I don't like the paint programs on iOS that I've used. I also don't want to pay the idiotic price Adobe asks for photoshop on the surface pro so I'm really stuck between being cheap and practice or spending and getting the features and superior image manipulation that I want.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,116
Toronto
Macbook pro with touchbar really shit the bed.

A pro laptop which requires dongles for EVERYTHING, no sd card built in for video/editors is just fucking ridiculous.

And the touch bar itself is useless. Apple should be aspiring to blur the lines of touch screen interfaces with laptop instead they made this pointless limited device with this useless emoji bar on top.

Im still holding on to my 2013 retina macbook
While they should have kept the SD card reader, I'm not as upset at the USB-C situation. Remember, the original iMac had a similar reaction when they went all-USB. Within a couple of years everything will be USB-C. What I am upset about is the non-upgradable RAM and storage. They could make it 2 mm thicker and put that back in, but nope.
 

Chekhonte

User banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,886
Macbook pro with touchbar really shit the bed.

A pro laptop which requires dongles for EVERYTHING, no sd card built in for video/editors is just fucking ridiculous.

And the touch bar itself is useless. Apple should be aspiring to blur the lines of touch screen interfaces with laptop instead they made this pointless limited device with this useless emoji bar on top.

Im still holding on to my 2013 retina macbook
You should see them on the inside. Literally everything is on one board and soldered in. If one module of memory breaks, whoopsydoodle. That's a total board replacement including SSD, Processor, all memory. Well you paid well over a grand for it so why not pay half of that to replace what should be one stick of RAM.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
Got it, that makes a lot more sense. I've been toying with the idea of getting one but I don't like the paint programs on iOS that I've used. I also don't want to pay the idiotic price Adobe asks for photoshop on the surface pro so I'm really stuck between being cheap or being practice.
I can help here. I recently went from a Surface Pro 3 to a Cintiq Pro 16 to an iPad Pro.

Photoshop is now like $10 a month under a single app subscription. No more paying $600 or whatever. Just wanted to throw that out there if you stick with Windows.

So the reason i got the iPad is because I wasn't really getting more in terms of workspace on the 16" Cintiq, once you take the different aspect ratios into account. It really felt like if I was going to spend that kind of money I should wait for the 24" version to really make my desk setup a meaningful upgrade. Thanks to the Pencil and the 12.9" screen size and the 120hz refresh, I decided to give Apple a try again after using a rubber nub stylus on an early iPad model years ago.

So now with the iPad Pro, I would say a good matte screen protector is a MUST for drawing. You get some of the rainbow effect but also a far superior feel to drawing. Procreate is a great app especially nowadays, and some professionals rely almost exclusively on that program. More recently a full version of Clip Studio Paint was released, and the only reason I'm not using that right now is the learning curve for someone unfamiliar with it. The upgrades to the OS, like swiping up to switch apps and get to control center, side-by-side app windows, file management. and picture in picture, have improved the experience a lot too. I can let another app take up half or a quarter of the screen for reference material, or I can watch Netflix in a little corner of the screen while I draw. The pencil is maybe just below the Wacom pen in terms of feel, but it still feels great and responsive and better than my Surface pen did. And of course that great aspect ratio makes drawing in portrait or landscape much better than on a widescreen display.

If your work relies heavily on filters and masks and other highly technical aspects of photoshop, stick to something that gives you access to Photoshop. Or see if Clip Studio on iPad will also do what you need. But if you mainly just like to straight up draw and paint, and maybe put the finishing touches on in Photoshop later, then i think the iPad Pro is the best tool on the market.

Wacom and others should really use this aspect ratio. Unless you've got a huge Cintiq, the widescreen aspect ratio is inferior for artists imo.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,970
I have said for a couple of years that Apple needs to complete the new HQ so that its best designers can get back to making great products. It's been evident the big guns have spent much more time on door handles and world's biggest curved glass windows than consumer products.
I disagree. I think Apple's latest design blunder come from their recent obsession with design concepts, which was maybe influenced from their HQ plans. Everything is super conceptual instead getting additional passes in the design process.

The trash cash MacPro and New MBPs are a result of this. Apple went the Concept Car route instead of thinking of consumer ramifications.
 

Chekhonte

User banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,886
If your work relies heavily on filters and masks and other highly technical aspects of photoshop, stick to something that gives you access to Photoshop. Or see if Clip Studio on iPad will also do what you need. But if you mainly just like to straight up draw and paint, and maybe put the finishing touches on in Photoshop later, then i think the iPad Pro is the best tool on the market.
I do a lot of physical art and use photoshop primarily as a very quick way to do mock ups so get size and ratio right. Since I can set photoshop to inches it's very easy to translate that into the physical world while avoiding mathing out tricky ratios where one patented chekhonte blunder can screw the whole thing up. I work in ceramics so if i get the shrinking ratio wrong that occurs in the drying process it means it might not be able to fit in the kiln.
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
I have everything Apple but in the last years they just went form over function instead of form follows function. I have no desire to use their new lineup of phones or laptops, I love minimalistic design and hate using dongles, multiple cables (usb-c \lightning) etc.

If the new Mac Pro is not going back to their old design philosophy and is "resonably" priced I'm switching to MS :(
 

StreamXSonik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
82
Their idea is, I think, to prevent you from using it as a wired mouse. You can't. It's intentional. It still might suck for those use cases but those 15 minutes aren't a problem for 90 per cent of the other use cases.

The answer to their obsession with wireless is to add wireless charging to all of these products instead of impacting their usability - my mouse always dies when i'm in the middle of something, taking a 15 minute break isn't acceptable.

It's not supposed to be the normal way you charge it. They include an adapter in the box for that. But for emergency situations where you need power, I couldn't imagine a simpler way with the stuff you normally have with you.

There is another port on the side of the Pro that could charge the pencil, its also magnetic so could keep it in place.

I really wish they'd bring TouchID back too but didn't they like officially say in some interview that it's dead?

Touch ID is dead.... under screen fingerprint reader will be called something different.

Apple's product line is a mess in many ways right now, and quite a few of the issues would be straightforward to fix. I'm amazed at the design issues their products are coming out with at the moment, despite both the iPhone X and the iPad Pro showing that they are moving back to being leading adoption of new tech. Hopefully getting the A team back on their core products full time will ensure the new tech also meets their previously high standards of usability and aesthetic appeal.

Next up, revisit the strategy for professional products - the Mac/book Pro shit isn't acceptable.
 

Illest1

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
675
Let's keep it real. Nobody 'likes' the notch. It looks stupid and its distracting. People deal with it and even get use to it. But you're kidding yourself or straight lying if you say you like it, as of it's some selling point.

Ffs.
 

nullref

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,046
I think the complaints are less about the way the thing works in practise (I have one and love it), and more about the design philosophy: "you will not use our mouse with a wire!" I have a huge issue with the philosophy behind the port choice, but don't find it hampers my use of the mouse in the real world. I can see someone being sufficiently irritated by the reasoning behind the design that they'd want to avoid the product though, and I think that's totally reasonable.

I think it's also possible that this particular design choice was about durability. If you could use the mouse while plugged in, some people would use it that way permanently, and maybe the cable and/or port aren't designed to take that potential strain. (I know similar micro-USB ports and cables connected to gamepads and the like don't handle that very well, in my experience.) I have no idea if that's true, or if it would be a problem in practice, and maybe they should have just given people that option regardless. But I always thought that was a possible rationale.
 

BeforeU

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,936
Apple hardware specially iPhones have always been brilliant, from silicon to overall design, screen quality, and camera

The problem is Software, iOS is bad. Seriously, its crazy how many people are willing to put up with it. I agree I almost considered getting one for myself this year too and the reason I didn't was the software.

Its like Apple users have so much time to waste navigating around the software. Its not even 1 big thing, its small things that add up to so much inconvenience

1). Notifications are terrible (use Android Oreo and you will know what I mean)

2). Same old home screen, let people arrange icons wherever they want. I want to see my beautiful wallpaper god damn it

3). Quick settings, you can't quickly jump to Blutooth or wifi setting just by long press. That's how it is on Android. To turn off Wifi completely you have to go to settings, turning off from quick setting doesn't actually turn it off completely. I know right? fucking stupid

4). Those gestures, long swipe up to bring multi task view and remove them one by one

5). FaceID unlock and then swipe up for home screen

6). can't change your default apps

They seriously need a major overhaul for software, nothing wrong with their hardware.