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Jordan Peterson - The "Intellectual" We Deserve
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defz03mgZqo
Hasan Piker had a nearly three hour debate with a lobster. AND he got on Three Arrows to help de-program him.
Hasan Piker had a nearly three hour debate with a lobster. AND he got on Three Arrows to help de-program him.
Listening to this (and from my own past experience) you realize how clueless him and his followers are about the things they have these hard stances on. Like within the first few minutes the follower has already added multiple caveats about how he's not fully informed on many facets of the topic be it Jordan Peterson's own stance, what C-16 actually entails, etc.
This man would have continued to be a nobody if it wasn't for his misinterpretation of Bill C-16. it always without fail comes up. Always.
He should have stuck to his fucking self help. If telling people to clean their rooms is so important, I guess they really need the help.
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"They're not who you think they are"
Based off that image they are exactly who I think they are.
I'm surprised this thread is still going
Man this is so infuriating because it's so obvious he has never read a word of Marx. Find me a quote where Marx said the "the 1% should be on the chopping block" or anything approaching that. He called for the disestablishment of the bourgeois class, not for them to be murdered.
It's funny how his argument against Marx is "look how many people his followers killed" but for whatever reason that principle doesn't apply to Christianity, which he reveres. The Spanish Inquisition, the Roman Empire and Catholic Church, imperialism, the violently anti-Semitic origins of Protestantism and Lutheranism... do none of those count? Read 'On The Jews And Their Lies' by Martin Luther. Why should anyone be allowed in polite society to call themselves a Lutheran? It's such a facile argument that falls apart at the first hurdle of scrutiny. No wonder he doesn't want to debate any informed Marxists
Do his followers seriously take on the name "lobster boys" voluntarily? Because that's great.
EDIT: I was having issues with posts showing up causing a duplicate. xenforo elves messing around no doubt
That is absolutely how I'd imagine his super fans.
And lol at his fucking poster on the wall.
Every time people mention Rubin as being even vaguely left-leaning I have to double-take and make sure they're referring to the guy I think they are.
The poster is the most Peterson thing ever, a lot of words impossible to parse quickly on something that is meant to be clear and concise.
Looks like it's a bunch of quotes and phrases of his: https://www.redbubble.com/people/et...I6qsvnZy8jc6OeEFeIKAB55aZ4ghYrWoaAgQ5EALw_wcB
Some of the lines, lol
"Dress like the person you want to be."
"Do not do things that you hate."
"Pet a cat on the street when you encounter one."
"Stand up straight with your shoulders back."
Man, no wonder this guy is one of the greatest thinkers of our time.
It isn't surprising in the least that this idiot was a nobody until he went off on bill C-16.
That's what I'm saying, instead of 1 poster per quote like a normal thing they just cram everything so it's as confusing as possible.
Sure look they should look at the great current examples of Marxism in action...
- China (People's Republic of China) ...
- Cuba (Republic of Cuba) ...
- Laos (Lao People's Democratic Republic) ...
- North Korea (DPRK, Democratic People's Republic of Korea) ...
- Vietnam (Socialist Republic of Vietnam) ...
The few JP supporters I've interacted with, and the many I see online, break so many of these rules.
One day you people will have to decide if it's Xian values or Capitalism values that are really important because they're literally incompatible.
ah yes, evil Cuba with its universal provision of healthcare, higher life expectancy than the United States, thriving wildlife population avoiding the ecological crisis befalling the US and other western countries, and lower rates of infant mortality and death from cancer. what a terrible hellhole.
it's funny that you call it whataboutism when I say debate Marx on first principles (hard to do when none of Peterson's followers have actually read Capital, but still) and you reply "what about Cuba and Vietnam????" how is that not whataboutism? if you really want to look at the history of Vietnam, the Christian western countries you're praising like France and the US have unleashed unimaginable horror and mass death on Vietnam in a way that quite contradicts your praise for the moral character of those Christian nations versus the evil Marxists. do you think the US is really a "success story" on any moral level? that's the difference between you and I. I don't see a nation-state with the legacy of the slaughter of millions of indigenous people, Vietnamese and Iraqis as a moral success story on any level
Before the creation of the welfare state, churches were the ones who supported those who could not care for themselves. Both were important in the countries history. The incompatible nature of the two is kinda the point. Ultimately it led to the creation of social welfare which I do think is important.
Sure but to claim that the US is country following Christian values is laughable, you actually have to not know anything about Christianity to make that claim.
To claim that the values of a secular country like France is somehow Christian when its values are in direct reaction to it equally laughable on its face.
I mean at this point might as well claim that everything is islamic culturally because it's about as accurate.
How many people have died trying to GO TO Cuba? Statistics are one thing, qaulity of life is quite another. You are free to eat well and take care of yourself in the US. Living a long and healthy life is up to you. Sadly, so is living an unhealthy one.
Are we going to start the No True Scotsman now? Christians in America are able to justify all their disgusting behavior and beliefs using direct quotes from the Bible. Do they not know anything about Christianity?
the US is country of capitalist values over all else, they can claim whatever the fuck they want their immigration policies alone proves that they're willing to ignore substantive parts of Chritian belief at a moment's notice.
Heck the confederation claimed to be do everything according to the Bible as well and justified slavery with Bible quotes as well.
Heck China claims to be communist when they're a full on capitalist country these days.
Don't put stock in what countries claim to be, it's cheap marketing
None of these countries espouse Marxism.
You should read Marx for yourself and formulate your own opinions on what he attempted to say.
I kind of feel like people shouldn't argue with Xenon in good faith until they respond to tulpa's post. Mostly because I get a piercing sensation inside my head similar to when my Trypophobia's triggered whenever someone tries to sincerely claim China and North Korea are Marxist. You know, authoritarian states with huge wealth divides between the rulers/upper classes and working class when Marxism is an economic theory based around equality and workers rights.
Im not saying that. But like it or not Christianity had a major influence on most of the European nations and the US, for good and bad. As far as France going in a different direction... Hows that working for them?
I am not against social policies that help people, but there are too many things about a full Marxist for of goverment that go against current human nature. Maybe we'll get their eventually but any attempt for a quick change would fail.
If only we can have this fictional country run by something other than people who are prone to corruption? If someone is pimping Marxism it's really up to them to prove its value. So far we haven't see it. I'm not saying the US is "the best we can do" just better than Marxism, which is a pretty low bar.
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Drink.
To clarify, I don't actually disagree that Marxist governments in history and contemporaneously are bad, they have serious fucking issues and I much prefer living in the US than China, I just hate this tired, lazy cliche of an argument.
About roughly 100 years without the state not being overthrown by a violent protest and standard of living miles ahead of what was before so you tell me.
There haven't been a large country that tries to adopt Marx's ideas yet.
It's like claiming that Pinochet is the reason why Christian values at a state level is bad.
How many people die in the US every single year because they don't have access to healthcare? A lot of people go to the US because it has the world's most effective and highly-financed propaganda system designed to globally market the fiction of the "American dream." It's a very sophisticated public relations operation, but once people get here, they often realize the terrible mistake they've made and that life in the United States is not even close to the fiction the state apparatus likes to project.
You can't just handwave away QoL statistics and then claim to know what you're talking about. Why do you care about the statistics of a small number of people who have died leaving Cuba but not in the massive amount of people who die in the US because they don't have access to healthcare?
Nonsense. Healthcare in the United States is highway robbery. Acting like everyone is free to pursue decent health when that care and decent education about these matters is unaffordable and out-of-reach for so many people makes a mockery of your whole claim. Of course, you didn't respond to the crux of my post, the bit that mentioned how the US and France's colonial legacy in Vietnam, which is a legacy of mass slaughter of innocent people, invalidates any moral claim you might make about it.
Oh yeah while the US's moral high ground is absurdly laughable, France is really not that much better if at all.
The colonial history of the country is a black mark that hasn't been properly expunged.
Right, that's the point I was making. Both the US and France have a history which demolishes any claim to a moral high ground
Marxism led to revolutions in its name, animating millions to support them, and what came after was authoritarian central planning (not Marxist) meant as a stopgap and eventually that digressed into authoritarian capitalism/kleptocracy, often with the direct support of influential westerners like Milton Friedman. Repeatedly, the worst excesses of intentional poverty and authoritarianism came because of the shift to capitalism, certainly in Russia and China as the two biggest examples.
Of course, our own propaganda by omission obscures a lot of this. Most people think of events like the Tiananmen Square protests, for example, as student protests pushing for liberal democracy. Same goes for Poland's workers movement that held constant mass strikes against communist central planners. These movements both pushed for democratic socialism, and specifically against liberal economics.
Cuba is a better example of communism in action. It is still flawed compared to pure Marxist thought, and certainly lacks many of the basic features of democratic socialism that the movements I noted above pushed for, but the outcomes tell a much different story than the sordid one most Americans are familiar with. People most often flee Cuba because they are conservatives or reactionaries, not because they can't access basics like quality education and healthcare. And Cuba provides that standard of living under the intense pressure of decades of heavy sanctions.
If you're willing to blame an economic system for people fleeing a country, or for inspiring authoritarian outcomes, look no further than hardline free market capitalism and how it has led to exponential spikes in poverty, torture, political "disappearings" and more. While communist central planning is clearly a failed, anti-democratic concept, pushing through pure free market idealism in the exact countries that tried it has consistently led to even worse outcomes, both for leaning into authoritarianism/corruption and for the health and well-being of the average person.
This should not even be controversial. Central/South America was basically a lab for this from the 1970's through today. Latin American Developmentalism vs. Chicago School free markets is an experiment we've seen the terrifying results of over and over.
You don't have to take a raft and die on the way there. You can just get on a plane and go. People do this *gasp* for vacation all the time. Unless their government happens to be the one that prevents this.
Of course, Americans can go on a nice island with even lower standards of living, higher rates of poverty, lower literacy rates, worse infrastructure and health outcomes. Puerto Rico! They even use the same currency pay taxes to the U.S., pretty neat.
Peterson fans regularly refer to, like, girls having purple hair as Marxism. It's toilet ideology. Literally just tossing out notable terms from philosophy, economics and politics with not even the barest awareness of their meaning to try to sound important while they go on their slash and burn reactionary culture crusade.
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This is a significantly better response that my lazy cynical post.
This is true of any cult when you compare them to their leader. All talk, botched walk.
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