Dude was absolutely sympathetic to them and played the both sides tango
Jordan Peterson - The "Intellectual" We Deserve
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I'm not sure what the name of the tactic is, the one where abusive people completely shower seemingly neutral parties in love and affection to seem cool?
They did that stuff to Pakman and it completely worked on him lol.
I legitimately had no idea.
I haven't been watching leftist youtube for all that long, maybe a year and a half or so, and just recently started watching Pakman. Looking past his stupid hair, I thought he had good content.
One "issue" with Pakman is that he, self-admittedly, refuses to watch other left-leaning content so as to not simply copy-paste other people's opinions.
This means that with widely conspiratorial messes like GG, his information came entirely from the people willing to engage with him & importantly, those willing to pop on his show for interviews.
Considering how many people on the GG-side of that mess were willing to share 'their version' of the story, this made Pakman a very easy target for mass misinformation for that subject.
He went into a conspiratorial subject known for harassment towards people who spoke out against it with barely any knowledge of the topic aside from what those who he spoke to shared & became an unwitting tool to spread propaganda and nonsense.
Why did he talk about it? Cause GGers basically mass begged him to, as they tried to find any outlet to legitimize their viewpoint.
So, I have been thinking about this, and didn’t want to make a thread for it. I’ll ask it here;
before I knew who he was and what kind of people he supported, I had seen a few of his videos about myths in antiquity, stories about the bible and in general him talking about things that happened in the past and it’s parallels to society today such as class imbalance etc etc
now, are those lectures of his bullshit as well? Because he never says anything wrong in them. By bullshit I mean whether they are correct and have basis in truth or is he pulling this shit out of thin air. Once I learned more about him and all the controversies I started researching Peterson more and lot of people online say he is a false intellectual with terrible or wrong ideas and one should never listen to him.
I guess what I’m asking is, if y’all know any other content creators that do similar videos. For example I saw this lecture of Peterson he did in class about ancient religions and how kings were chosen, and what those myths meant in reality, and he never says anything problematic. Just him talking about the belief system then and why it was the way it is. I know some will say I can separate the two sides of him and a lecture such as that has no harm, but then I hear about him supporting terrible people, so I don’t want to support them by proxy of supporting Peterson.
Anyway, please educate me on these matters. Cheers.
before I knew who he was and what kind of people he supported, I had seen a few of his videos about myths in antiquity, stories about the bible and in general him talking about things that happened in the past and it’s parallels to society today such as class imbalance etc etc
now, are those lectures of his bullshit as well? Because he never says anything wrong in them. By bullshit I mean whether they are correct and have basis in truth or is he pulling this shit out of thin air. Once I learned more about him and all the controversies I started researching Peterson more and lot of people online say he is a false intellectual with terrible or wrong ideas and one should never listen to him.
I guess what I’m asking is, if y’all know any other content creators that do similar videos. For example I saw this lecture of Peterson he did in class about ancient religions and how kings were chosen, and what those myths meant in reality, and he never says anything problematic. Just him talking about the belief system then and why it was the way it is. I know some will say I can separate the two sides of him and a lecture such as that has no harm, but then I hear about him supporting terrible people, so I don’t want to support them by proxy of supporting Peterson.
Anyway, please educate me on these matters. Cheers.
What are you specifically interested in? Figure that out and find actual experts in the field and follow their work. Peterson only real expertise is in a narrow area of psychology- i think personality testing or something like that.
If you want to learn about class, the field your interested in is sociology.
While I cant speak specifically to what videos you're talking about, I will say that the old, "broken clock being right twice a day" adage applies to Peterson.
He's beyond a shit heel with his awful sexist and transphobic views, alongside his reductionist tendencies to oversimplify human nature in order to shoehorn whatever point hes trying make. I do think some of his basic self-help tips can be useful though, but honestly, you can get that sort of thing in most modern self help books. Most of them not being so hamfisted with pseudo intellectual drivel. So theres very little point in giving Peterson any extra attention.
Wow, Pakman continues to disappoint me even after I stopped following him for his “Bolivia was not a coup” takes.
His naivety is exactly why he isn't worth giving the time of day
He's a useful idiot for the right. It's happened again and again. Don't know why anyone would bother with his thoughtlessly frivolous content when there's so much out there at the moment.
So if I understand the situation correctly: JP is currently recovering from neurological damage following an induced coma at a russian detox-clinic for benzo addicts. He also suffered pneumonia there which almost killed him. This procedure was administered to him, again in Russia, because of his abnormal benzo withdrawal which western doctors weren't able to treat. The reason he was on benzos in the first place is because of an allergic reaction to apple cider vinegar(!) several years ago which was so severe that he developed some kind of long lasting anxiety psychosis.
I couldn't have thought up a crazier story, and that's without the additional multiple layers of craziness that we all know and loathe him for. Considering his wife is also terminally ill with cancer it's hard not to feel sorry for him.
Benzo withdrawal is real hell though, don't mess with that shit. I was dependent on codeine after chronic migraines for years and getting off that was a trifle compared the withdrawal I had after ONE week of benzos.
I couldn't have thought up a crazier story, and that's without the additional multiple layers of craziness that we all know and loathe him for. Considering his wife is also terminally ill with cancer it's hard not to feel sorry for him.
Benzo withdrawal is real hell though, don't mess with that shit. I was dependent on codeine after chronic migraines for years and getting off that was a trifle compared the withdrawal I had after ONE week of benzos.
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I read the article, and the whole thing is shady as hell - impossible to parse out looney tunes, bespoke medical theory from elder abuse.
A terrible fate for a terrible man and as much as I despise him I don't think I could even dare wish this kind of hell on him.
A terrible fate for a terrible man and as much as I despise him I don't think I could even dare wish this kind of hell on him.
Maybe the "dragon of chaos" was much less of a metaphor than we assumed and was in fact a benzo induced hallucination.
I've said it so many times about dudes like Peterson but you live that lie long enough and it becomes the truth. Its not very surprising to me how something like this turned out at all.
Peterson is basically just regurgitating Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung when he talks about those topics. Both of whose ideas on the subject have largely been discredited by modern folklorists, religious studies scholars, historians and anthropologists. They're also problematic for other reasons (Like Campbell being an anti-semitic far-right asshole).
Essentially, Peterson's views on myth are more akin to a far-right Christian version of New Age philosophy. He's redressing problematic Victorian-era mysticism and pseudoscience for a modern audience.
The thing about Peterson is that you absolutely can't separate both sides of him. For Peterson and his followers, his interpretation of the past props up his abhorrent contemporary social views, and vice-versa. He's using the same interpretive lens, language, and arguments for both these things.
Peterson sees himself as 21st century St George or Marduk, battling the chaos dragon of PC culture. So, even if Peterson isn't saying anything overtly problematic in those lectures, he's still using the same language, biases and framework for them, and they're all part of his central argument.
Because American doctors kept trying to "treat drugs with more drugs" according to his daughter. It's all super-sketchy and would be a hell of a way to go if his daughter's quackery ends up getting him killed.
How does one end up going to Moscow for treatment? What are their channels that ultimately led them there? Bizarre
Which writers would you say are better alternatives to Campbell and Jung? I’ve always been interested in learning more about myth, folklore, anthropology, religion, and history, but Campbell and Jung are often the first writers people recommend to me. Who would you recommend instead, perhaps writers who’s ideas are more modern and credible?
People have asked me this exact question many times. I always say- dont follow particular people, look at the field. I would look for an actual undergraduate textbook on anthropology for example as a starting point.
Yeah this.
Don't become a fanboy or stan of various personalities or "thinkers" .
That just leads to cultism. Read a variety of things and people and critiques and get your own feel of the world.
People like JBP romanticize the heck out of their own fantasies and wishes about how the world "should be" because they have horrible lives they need to make peace with. Supposedly his way of doing this was to shoehorn a bunch of stuff into order vs chaos with a sprinkling of Jung-ish archetypes in hopes of trying to find a universal truth to make sense of his life--and then he tried to sell this coping mechanism to everyone else.
I have some sympathy for him for his current situation, but also I am mostly feeling "sounds about right". And I know this is also not based on anything but my gut feeling, but I don't think his wife has helped him cope in particular either if she's the one having those "visions" of the apocalyptic future that inspire him to go down this rabbit hole in the first place.
never would have guessed a guy who told everyone to just eat red meat could end up dying from an over-reliance on pseudoscience
Very troubling to hear he's suffering from neurological difficulties. Not being able to walk or talk must be deeply demoralizing if he's all there still. I'm one who is quick to call him a grifter, even a dangerous one, but I would not wish ill on him seeing as things snowballed in his personal life. I'm reminded of Peter Coffin's video about Peterson, but this was before the neurological and coma issues.
Usually people who talk a type of talk are the ones who fail to walk it, too. Slaying dragons, and yet one dragon has almost slayed him. It's tragic, in a way.
Usually people who talk a type of talk are the ones who fail to walk it, too. Slaying dragons, and yet one dragon has almost slayed him. It's tragic, in a way.
I didn’t know, but holy shit that is not a good look for someone claiming to be a progressive.
Professor Amir Attaran's Twitter feed is just savage on JBP lately. He's got the lobsters all worked up.
Peterson is quickly becoming damaged goods so I doubt he's gonna have much of a platform if his health and mental issues keep up. The crowd he's been playing too for so long is not exactly known for feeling a lot of remorse or having much time or care for those who aren't constantly pushing the narrative and looking good doing it.
Since the other thread got locked due to way too many people coming out of the woodwork to defend and/or asking for compassion on Peterson's behalf, here's what Peterson himself would have said to them:
I'm very pleased that his influence is waning. But this is sad news for all the people directly involved, including friends and family.
Here is a video about pseudo-science and drug addiction talking specifically about Peterson and his daughter. His daughter blamed western medicine, which is an odd turn for (sarcastic tone) the defender of western civilization's daughter. But what happened is that he wasn't following what his doctor surely told him:
And now to the comedy for this sad situation:
The Canadian satirical new site The Beaverton reports:
Here is a video about pseudo-science and drug addiction talking specifically about Peterson and his daughter. His daughter blamed western medicine, which is an odd turn for (sarcastic tone) the defender of western civilization's daughter. But what happened is that he wasn't following what his doctor surely told him:
And now to the comedy for this sad situation:
The Canadian satirical new site The Beaverton reports:
Postmedia, I should note, runs the National Post and publishes a weekly column by Jordan Peterson.
on the latest peterson advancement:
fascinating story that i absolutely believe 100% of from this known truth teller and non-grifter/charlatan
fascinating story that i absolutely believe 100% of from this known truth teller and non-grifter/charlatan
Nope, it was quite right of you to post that. He's a piece of shit.
I mean, of Peterson -- assuming people in need are probably moral failures.
Damn. Liked this one, too:
Makes me wonder what the "civility at all costs" folks think of those quotes huh.
Yup I was on Ativan during my cancer treatment to help with anxiety and nausea, and it worked great, but jesus you get dependent on that shit really fast that you dont even notice that the withdrawal of it causes the symptoms you were trying to get rid of. I originally tried to limit my dosage but I couldnt make it through a day without it at a certain point. The only thing that works is a slow taper. I ended up cutting my dosage in small increments each week until I was down to a miniscule amount.
I gotta be honest I've probably got Rubin and Pakman mixed up in my head as a sort of vacuous radio host personality composite and I think his credulousness about the 'gate is why.
My bad. I've had to deal with a lot of Peterson cultists irl who have called me heartless. So I'm a bit defensive. Thanks for the clarification!
just like with trump, there's always a quote for every occasion