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Oversoul

Banned
Dec 20, 2017
533
Everyone knows life is hard, but people aren't just sitting around and doing nothing about it. People are acting. They're marching; they're calling reps; they're trying to get better educations, not for just themselves, but for everyone. People want their States to be better, they want the country to be better, they want the world to be better, but Peterson is so intensely focused on the individual that he decries activism and such. He tells you to have your house in order before you try to change the world, but it doesn't work like that. It can't work like that. Sometimes, the world at large is holding you back. His approach to this is myopic and shortsighted and it will lead to greater inequality.

Well, that's a fair stance to take. I'm more inclined to think that if the individual focus is done first, than the second problem becomes more manageable. It seems like the most logical order of things to me.

But I can also see your point that by focussing too much on the individual we can fail to adress the more systemic problems of society.

To be honest, this is a tricky question, but this is my current stance on it.
 

Deleted member 22490

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9,237
Well, that's a fair stance to take. I'm more inclined to think that if the individual focus is done first, than the second problem becomes more manageable. It seems like the most logical order of things to me.

But I can also see your point that by focussing too much on the individual we can fail to adress the more systemic problems of society.

To be honest, this is a tricky question, but this is my current stance on it.
I don't think it's a tricky question and the answer is obvious: do both. Improve yourself and improve the world.

Does Peterson's book suggest community service?
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Well, that's a fair stance to take. I'm more inclined to think that if the individual focus is done first, than the second problem becomes more manageable. It seems like the most logical order of things to me.

Are you basing that on anything from history? Because from top to bottom, the US women's suffrage and civil rights movements were filled with people who focused on changing the world even though their personal lives had plenty of problems, as was the Indian independence movement.

Besides, working with other people to change the world changes the individual - it can give the individual a support system to fall back on and a sense of self-worth and community.
 

Deleted member 22490

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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Of course you can do both, but prioritization will always occur.

I'm just past the halfway point, but have not seen it yet.
Prioritization will occur, but it's not impossible to do both. One day you might do some self improvement. The next, you could volunteer somewhere. Or take part in a protest. Or involve yourself in local politics. And of course, it the balance between individual tasks and societal tasks aren't going to be even and will vary from person to person. Some have changed society at large, but still had personal work to be done.

But the hyperfocus on the individual is bad.

Besides, working with other people to change the world changes the individual - it can give the individual a support system to fall back on and a sense of self-worth and community.
This, too. You get a network of people you can rely on. And it's always good to get different perspective on things.
 

Deleted member 22490

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Just did a quick search and couldn't find anything about community service or volunteering from him besides a video in which he says getting a volunteer job is harder than getting a paid job.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,775
Are you basing that on anything from history? Because from top to bottom, the US women's suffrage and civil rights movements were filled with people who focused on changing the world even though their personal lives had plenty of problems, as was the Indian independence movement.

Besides, working with other people to change the world changes the individual - it can give the individual a support system to fall back on and a sense of self-worth and community.
And it's even more hilarious when you consider that Peterson's own life is NOT in order to begin with.
Just did a quick search and couldn't find anything about community service or volunteering from him besides a video in which he says getting a volunteer job is harder than getting a paid job.
And of course bucko being so rigorous in his thoughts he doesn't provide any sources to back that up, right?
 

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
Just did a quick search and couldn't find anything about community service or volunteering from him besides a video in which he says getting a volunteer job is harder than getting a paid job.
Huh... most places I've volunteered at weren't that picky.

Hell, at the animal shelter I was the only person not court-ordered to be there >.<
 

Oversoul

Banned
Dec 20, 2017
533
Prioritization will occur, but it's not impossible to do both. One day you might do some self improvement. The next, you could volunteer somewhere. Or take part in a protest. Or involve yourself in local politics. And of course, it the balance between individual tasks and societal tasks aren't going to be even and will vary from person to person. Some have changed society at large, but still had personal work to be done.

But the hyperfocus on the individual is bad.

I agree. As always, some balance is healthy.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,620
OF COURSE Oversoul completely ignores Spoopy Boatington's breakdown of all those Salon articles. But yes, everyone please continue watching at least five thousand hours of Peterson's youtube videos before you criticize him in any fashion.

Remember kids: NEVER* act like a victim.

*unless it's being a victim of the evil postmodernist industrial complex.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,620
The whole "clean your room before you save the world, bucko!" sounds like uncontroversial, and maybe even decent advice until you think about it for more than ten seconds, when it becomes clear how fucking stupid it actually is.

If you want to try to do things such as helping get non-violent drug offenders out of jail, reduce child hunger/poverty, help get poor people access to medical care, the people who would benefit from your help don't give two shits about whether your room is clean or not. If you try to help improve society even if your life still needs sorting out, isn't that a goddamned net positive? MLK was said to be an adulterer. Should he have stopped marching and advocating for the Civil Rights Acts?

The only way anyone could support the idea of holding off on improving the ills of society is if they don't think said ills are that important to begin with. Which coincidentally, Peterson does.
 

Oversoul

Banned
Dec 20, 2017
533
OF COURSE Oversoul completely ignores Spoopy Boatington's breakdown of all those Salon articles. But yes, everyone please continue watching at least five thousand hours of Peterson's youtube videos before you criticize him in any fashion.

Remember kids: NEVER* act like a victim.

*unless it's being a victim of the evil postmodernist industrial complex.

Come on man, I respond to nearly everyone. Lot's of responses, I try to pick the most interesting ones focussing on the larger discussion.

Spoopie's post was fine. He's right in that the articles are not all as bad as the headlines seem to imply. I was using the post as an example to show very directly that the narrative exists. Spoopie acknowledged that too with 3 or so headlines.

I admit I was typing on my phone at work and needed a quick example, so yeah. Not the highest quality evidence, but it contained at least some evidence.

Tl;dr Spoopie was mostly right, my quick exhibit A example was flawed.

But I don't think it changes a whole lot regarding the bigger picture and the discussion that is taking place right now.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,620
Come on man, I respond to nearly everyone. Lot's of responses, I try to pick the most interesting ones focussing on the larger discussion.

Spoopie's post was fine. He's right in that the articles are not all as bad as the headlines seem to imply. I was using the post as an example to show very directly that the narrative exists. Spoopie acknowledged that too with 3 or so headlines.

I admit I was typing on my phone at work and needed a quick example, so yeah. Not the highest quality evidence, but it contained at least some evidence.

Tl;dr Spoopie was mostly right, my quick exhibit A example was flawed.

But I don't think it changes a whole lot regarding the bigger picture and the discussion that is taking place right now.

Okay, that's good that you did read that post.

But the problem here is that you still seem to not understand why people in this thread have issues with JP, insisting that he's not saying anything controversial, while also proving everyone's points by posting things like that Salon image.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
I never really bothered listening to him blathering about his world view. His proximity to morons like Sargon Of Akkad is enough for me to rule out the possibility that he has anything worthwhile to say.

But I have listened to him talk politics a couple of times, mainly to understand the motivations behind his hatred for Marxism.
At the core of it is, typically for north Americans, a grave misunderstanding of what Marxism was and what came from it over the course of the last century.
Its weird to see an actual academic voice such uninformed opinions, but it kinda makes sense that he find success in the US with it because modern political theory, as it is taught in Europe, isn't taught in the US. At least not widespread.
Apart from having no idea what modern leftism actually is, he also touts extremely outdated concepts of society. I don't even think he sticks to any particular theory of society, its just random thoughts and believes he voices and forms into his stance. Systems theory would probably blow his mind, or he would denounce it as Marxist propaganda.
Listening to him feels like a throwback into the intellectual world of the 1920s and 30s.
Like a libertarian twist on Carl Schmitt.
 

Duji

Member
Nov 26, 2017
25
The whole "clean your room before you save the world, bucko!" sounds like uncontroversial, and maybe even decent advice until you think about it for more than ten seconds, when it becomes clear how fucking stupid it actually is.

If you want to try to do things such as helping get non-violent drug offenders out of jail, reduce child hunger/poverty, help get poor people access to medical care, the people who would benefit from your help don't give two shits about whether your room is clean or not. If you try to help improve society even if your life still needs sorting out, isn't that a goddamned net positive? MLK was said to be an adulterer. Should he have stopped marching and advocating for the Civil Rights Acts?

The only way anyone could support the idea of holding off on improving the ills of society is if they don't think said ills are that important to begin with. Which coincidentally, Peterson does.
Exactly. The guy is a status quo warrior. He probably thinks minorities in the USA already have good enough equality of opportunity for ex. and would be baseline fiercely skeptical of the evidence of institutional racism. He's against victimhood of any sort but "overcorrects" too far to the point in denying real damage being done by bad actors (for some reason personal responsibility and stoicism only belongs to the people claiming oppression but not the alleged oppressors?)
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
The whole "clean your room before you save the world, bucko!" sounds like uncontroversial, and maybe even decent advice until you think about it for more than ten seconds, when it becomes clear how fucking stupid it actually is.

If you want to try to do things such as helping get non-violent drug offenders out of jail, reduce child hunger/poverty, help get poor people access to medical care, the people who would benefit from your help don't give two shits about whether your room is clean or not. If you try to help improve society even if your life still needs sorting out, isn't that a goddamned net positive? MLK was said to be an adulterer. Should he have stopped marching and advocating for the Civil Rights Acts?

The only way anyone could support the idea of holding off on improving the ills of society is if they don't think said ills are that important to begin with. Which coincidentally, Peterson does.
Peterson will keep saying that racism is wrong (only overt racism, not systemic), sexism is wrong, sexual harassment is wrong, etc., but doesn't offer anyways to help the issues besides personal responsibility.
 

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,965
What was the law on speech for pronouns?

Iirc you can be prosecuted if you do not call a transgender person by their acceptable pronoun.

Based on what?

His patreon is funded by reactionaries.

Recipts on his Paterson being funded by reactionaries.

I mean I'm going off of what everyone else is here: oberservation. I've just seen a lot of his watchers identify themselves as Left on his streams, Reddit and YouTube.

There are also right wings fans.

Like I said, Jordan Peterson has captilised on the polarisation of left and right wing parties, by appealing himself to both at such a time.


What's annoying is seeing right wing channels take parts of his talks, label it with some reactionary title and feed it like he's one of them.


Think for yourself instead of taking this weird reduction at face value.

Peterson uses the lobster as an example to illustrate how ancient dominance hierarchies are. He tells about how the lobster has a brain function that tracks status and releases serotonin accordingly and uses it as a gateway to his first self-help rule: stand up straight with your shoulders back.

It's utterly harmless stuff.

Thank you.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who here actually listens to what he is saying or at least trying to get across.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
Recipts on his Paterson being funded by reactionaries.

I mean I'm going off of what everyone else is here: oberservation. I've just seen a lot of his watchers identify themselves as Left on his streams, Reddit and YouTube.

There are also right wings fans.

Like I said, Jordan Peterson has captilised on the polarisation of left and right wing parties, by appealing himself to both at such a time.


What's annoying is seeing right wing channels take parts of his talks, label it with some reactionary title and feed it like he's one of them.

It blew up after he went after trans rights. He gets paid because he goes after "SJWs" and "Post-modern neormarxists".... Are you seriously going to try and claim he's getting funded by liberals?

Right wing channels? He goes on their networks and talks at their conferences.... He gives them content, they don't "take it", he literally gave a talk about white privilege being a Marxis lie at a Conservative conference run by a group who believes in the Cultural Marxist and George Soros conspiracies.

His subreddit right now is upvoting anti-Semitic content

I'm sure you'll claim this isn't good enough but:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...nto-free-speech-crowdfunding/article35174379/
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 25709

User Requested Account Closure
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Oct 29, 2017
1,046
Iirc you can be prosecuted if you do not call a transgender person by their acceptable pronoun.



Recipts on his Paterson being funded by reactionaries.

I mean I'm going off of what everyone else is here: oberservation. I've just seen a lot of his watchers identify themselves as Left on his streams, Reddit and YouTube.

There are also right wings fans.

Like I said, Jordan Peterson has captilised on the polarisation of left and right wing parties, by appealing himself to both at such a time.


What's annoying is seeing right wing channels take parts of his talks, label it with some reactionary title and feed it like he's one of them.




Thank you.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who here actually listens to what he is saying or at least trying to get across.

Peterson got popular after misinterpreting Bill C-16.
 
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Deleted member 15440

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Oct 27, 2017
4,191
Okay, that's good that you did read that post.

But the problem here is that you still seem to not understand why people in this thread have issues with JP, insisting that he's not saying anything controversial, while also proving everyone's points by posting things like that Salon image.
i'll willingly admit that i haven't read a lot of JP since i can't stand the guy or his fans, but it seems to me that he doesn't really say anything controversial deliberately. he throws out a fucking ton of obvious dog whistles but the only hard statements he'll stick to are the extremely generic ones like the stand up straight clean your room garbage.

it's pretty obvious who he's trying to appeal to given the composition of his fanbase though. the extent to which he's avoided getting pinned down on his positions makes me surprised he hasn't tried to be a politician, though he probably makes a lot more money peddling his philosophical snake oil to vulnerable white kids.
 

Deleted member 8561

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Oct 26, 2017
11,284
IIRC you have selective memory because you've been told many times in this very thread that Bucko got famous due to his fallacious interpretation of bill C16, which you have just reiterated!

It's a complex issue
It's a tricky question
He's asking the tough questions, he's really thinking about this

Why are you listening to his actual words when you can listen to his more wishy washy, scientifically incorrect things that drive a pre-conceived point home regardless of the actual scientific accuracy? What's the big deal???

Sometimes I think liberals need to stop taking everything so literal and let the vague questions start driving their lives and opinions on things! If you actually listen, you'll understand exactly what he means when vaguely talking about crabs incorrectly, or telling a room full of young men they are born with a 50% higher failure rate.

After having a man who called Frozen feminist propaganda tell me in his book how I need to cowboy up, I've been able to function and find a fuller meaning in life... like... cleaning my room!
 
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Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
For anyone who decided to take Peterson's opinions about C16 as fact instead of doing any research themselves:

Here's an official legislative summary.

It's a 13 page pdf. The first four pages consist of a title, two paragraphs explaining what a legislative summary is, a table of contents, and one blank page.

The next 4 pages summarize the bill and give context to its purpose. From the background summary paragraph on page 1 (page 5 of the pdf):
The bill is intended to protect individuals from discrimination within the sphere of federal jurisdiction and from being the targets of hate propaganda, as a consequence of their gender identity or their gender expression. The bill adds gender identity or expression to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination in the Canadian Human Rights Act and the list of characteristics of identifiable groups protected from hate propaganda in the Criminal Code.

So this is an amendment to the Canadian Human Rights Act, but what does that do?

From the legislative summary of C16, page 2 (page 6 of the pdf):
Human rights laws in every jurisdiction in Canada prohibit discrimination against people based on certain listed grounds, such as sex, ethnic origin, religion, disability or sexual orientation. For example, the Canadian Human Rights Act lists 11 grounds for which discrimination is prohibited. These laws provide complaint mechanisms that individuals or groups may follow when they believe that they have been discriminated against in the provision of services, accommodation and employment.

The Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination by federally regulated employers or service providers

So the bill puts gender identity and gender expression on the same level as sex, ethnicity, and disability. If you look at the Canadian Human Rights Act, it prohibits federal employers from discriminating on those bases, but there's nothing in C16 so far that suggests that pronouns have anything to do with that. What about the section on hate propaganda on page 6 (pdf page 10)?

Criminal offences related to hate promotion are set out in sections 318 to 320.1 of the Criminal Code. Section 318 makes it an offence for anyone to advocate or promote genocide, which is defined as acts committed with an intent to destroy in whole or in part an identifiable group by either killing its members or inflicting on them such conditions as to deliberately bring about their physical destruction. Those found guilty may be punished by up to five years' imprisonment.

I'm not sure what the problem would be unless someone wants to advocate for genocide. There's still nothing that even remotely implies that you can be charged for not using the proper pronouns. The rest of the actual text is about sentencing guidelines, and then there are 2 1/2 pages of sources.

So there's nothing in C16 that could possible be interpreted as making it an offense worthy of prosecution to not use the correct pronouns for a trans person (unless the person doing the interpreting is a complete moron).

But C16 is just an amendment to the Canadian Human Rights Act, so maybe there's something in there that could be interpreted in that manner.

Well, there is. It's Section 13, the "hate speech provision." I guess I could see someone stretching that to be the problem they claim C16 to be if they really wanted to.

There's just one problem with that.

IT WAS REMOVED THREE FUCKING YEARS BEFORE C16 WAS EVEN PROPOSED!

So not only is what Peterson said about C16 not actually present in C16, but the only other thing that could have been used to criticize the act C16 modifies isn't present either.

There are only two possibilities here:
1. Peterson, a college professor, was too dense to understand 7 pages of plain, direct language (complete with context and definitions).
2. Peterson lied about the contents of C16.

So the kindest description of the people who supported Peterson over C16 is that they were too lazy to read a few pages of the thing they were so afraid of, or they did read it and were just too stupid to understand it.
 
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Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada

Deleted member 22490

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There's been very few of his fans that admit that Peterson got it wrong. Even fewer that admitted that they should've read it themselves.
 

SixPointEight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,284
There's been very few of his fans that admit that Peterson got it wrong. Even fewer that admitted that they should've read it themselves.

Well you see it's hard to get to the true essence of c16. It's a very complex thing. And we have to look at the bigger picture. We have to listen to what it's saying.

what does this post mean? Who knows! And I wrote it!

There's been very few of his fans that admit that Peterson got it wrong. Even fewer that admitted that they should've read it themselves.

Same shit happened here over M-103, a motion against islamophobia, and declaring it systemic racism.

No idea where bucko stood on this, and I don't really want to know, but a lot of people thought it was legally binding, would put people to jail, while it was a motion, an expression of an opinion from the government, not a law or a Bill.

But « free speech » advocates decided that you would get jailed for « criticising » Islam, or some nonesense about sharia law.
 
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Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,965
It blew up after he went after trans rights. He gets paid because he goes after "SJWs" and "Post-modern neormarxists".... Are you seriously going to try and claim he's getting funded by liberals?

No, he blew up when he made it a point about freedom of speech and legislation: that was his entire argument. Thats why people listened in such numbers.
Again with these claims that seem to have no receipts.

He's getting paid millions from his Patreon and book revenue.

Right wing channels? He goes on their networks and talks at their conferences.... He gives them content, they don't "take it", he literally gave a talk about white privilege being a Marxis lie at a Conservative conference run by a group who believes in the Cultural Marxist and George Soros conspiracies.

Umm no. Peterson is open to talk to most people, whether they are left or right.
I was talking about those right wing youtube channels that steal content and post it under various titles to gain views.

The lobster shit is nonsense from top to bottom. It's a complete joke.


Whats the point being made in the video because much of the comments are noting how the person has misinterpreted Jordan's thought.

IIRC you have selective memory because you've been told many times in this very thread that Bucko got famous due to his fallacious interpretation of bill C16, which you have just reiterated!



We are listening. That's part of the problem: What he's saying is utter jibberish that you've bought into.

Or perhaps there is some truth in what he says and you are struggling to recognise it.
 

Tankman

Member
Nov 2, 2017
63

Deleted member 22490

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9,237
Well you see it's hard to get to the true essence of c16. It's a very complex thing. And we have to look at the bigger picture. We have to listen to what it's saying.
Sounds like some flow of water spirits or something.

Or perhaps there is some truth in what he says and you are struggling to recognise it.

First, point to the C-16 to show where it restricts speech. That is really all you have to do to shut us up about it.

Second, I'm still struggling to realize how extreme identity policies leads to Marxism and why is Marxism is bad.
 

Deleted member 22490

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9,237
Just like Sifu Peterson, the student has learned to weave through attacks by obfuscation, indirectness, and imprecise language. But can the student become the master?
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Just like Sifu Peterson, the student has learned to weave through attacks by obfuscation, indirectness, and imprecise language. But can the student become the master?
Eh. He just seems to be ignoring people that tell him he is wrong. It also is no surprise to me that psycho mantis is a Peterson fan.

They seem really easy to correlate with the kind of posts they make elsewhere
 

SixPointEight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,284


I know dr zoidbergs position on C16. You don't have to share me a video to tell me what it is.

You should consider looking at other sources when we tell you that your sole source is wrong, instead of bringing your source again.

It's not like they're not readily available in this thread. What's holding you from looking at them?
 
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OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I know dr zoidbergs position on C16. You don't have to share me a video to tell me what it is.

You should consider looking at other sources when we tell you that your sole source is wrong, instead of bringing your source again.

It's not like they're not readily available in this thread. What's holding you from looking at them?

Some people just struggle saying they were wrong.

I would also like to know where it says you can be prosecuted for misgendering someone. I will say that while it's not against the law, doing it with any intent to insult, is super dickish, so the defense is always humorous to me.

"I want the ability to be an asshole"

"Well, you already have that ability"

"No there's a law that states that I can't be one."

"No there isn't, you're misinterpreting it."

"Here's a YouTube video proving me right."

"No that's someone else misinterpreting the law."

It's pretty discouraging discussing things on the Internet :/.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
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11,284
Guys why would you read the language of the bill when you can listen to the guy who blames women for the ills of young men tell you what the bill actually means.
 

Deleted member 22490

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9,237
Some people just struggle saying they were wrong.

I would also like to know where it says you can be prosecuted for misgendering someone. I will say that while it's not against the law, doing it with any intent to insult, is super dickish, so the defense is always humorous to me.

"I want the ability to be an asshole"

"Well, you already have that ability"

"No there's a law that states that I can't be one."

"No there isn't, you're misinterpreting it."

"Here's a YouTube video proving me right."

"No that's someone else misinterpreting the law."

It's pretty discouraging discussing things on the Internet :/.
You're just struggling to see the truth
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
Umm no. Peterson is open to talk to most people, whether they are left or right.
I was talking about those right wing youtube channels that steal content and post it under various titles to gain views.

Peterson cancelled a debate with a Marxist and cancelled an interview with someone who was going to talk to him about his false claims of being adopted by a first nations tribe..... Peterson goes where he will either not be challenged or where he thinks he can win

No, he blew up when he made it a point about freedom of speech and legislation: that was his entire argument. Thats why people listened in such numbers.
Again with these claims that seem to have no receipts.

He's getting paid millions from his Patreon and book revenue.

So? he blew up when he lied.... I mean he also did call gender neutral pronouns postmodern neomarxism... and a strain of marxism that is little different from the one that killed 100 million people.... so there's that.

University of Toronto psychology professor Jordan Peterson was in the news this week—and one imagines this makes the university sad. Peterson first made the news and became a belle of the alt-right when, in September 2016, he announced that he would not use a student's preferred pronoun if he were asked to, except that he might if he felt the request was "genuine," and no one had asked him that anyway.

What that poor man has been through.

Needless to say, in an economy as desperately short of leadership and ideas as the alt-right's is, Peterson's stock went through the roof. He currently has legions of fans hanging on his every YouTubed word; he's now hauling in around USD $50,000 a month through crowdfunding

http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/

Dr Peterson garnered a considerable amount of internet fame after posting a detailed criticism of bill C-16, passed on June, 15th 2017. The bill sought to add protection of gender identity and expression to the Canadian Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code.


Critics of this bill have been abundant and loud, stating that the bill is a step in the wrong direction for free speech in Canada.

Furthermore, Dr Peterson has repeatedly said that he has no personal issue addressing a trans person as the pronoun of their choice; however, he refuses to participate in governmentally compelled speech. He has made a clear stance in saying "I don't recognize another person's right to decide what words I'm going to use".

To most people, this is a no-brainer. From Libertarians to Conservatives and folks who may have previously identified as Liberals, Canadians who have felt alienated by the modern left's authoritarian characteristics see Jordan Peterson as a rock star.

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/j...g-movement-conservative-canadian-millennials/

Now Peterson is working on, and accepting donations for, an online university. This was a plan he teased out over the past year; now he's begun development on its first "module," according to recent interviews. The institution would revolve mostly around the humanities and the great books of Western civilization. It would also be, as he's said in his lectures and interviews, "autonomous and self-improving, a minimum of administrative overhead, extremely low cost, widespread availability, crowd-sourced in its structure and autonomously self-improving."

Peterson believes that his project could save millions from the "degeneracy" of modern universities, which are corrupted, as he says, by women's studies and discussions of diversity.

Jordan Peterson first rose to international fame in opposition to certain hate crime legislation that he saw as totalitarian and driven by "Maoist" thinking. YouTube
What's responsible for the degeneracy, according to Peterson? "Postmodern neo-Marxism." This somewhat heady term essentially describes a subversive cabal of Marxist thinkers who, starting in the 1970s began conspiring to destroy the natural hierarchies in Western culture. Peterson believes that these thoughts have lived on in discussions of white privilege and diversity, mostly perpetuated in the liberal arts and college humanities departments, which he says have become "indoctrination cults."

https://mic.com/articles/188569/jor...stroy-college-indoctrination-cults#.0NLeK5MDe

But an investigation into the controversy around Jordan Peterson shows how this world grows and operates. With his vast online reach, Prof. Peterson has attracted small volunteer armies willing to defend his views. The Globe and Mail reviewed hundreds of pages of discussions about Prof. Peterson and his views on anonymous message boards, including 4chan and voat – two of the least moderated or monitored online forums. The conversations, which range from immature to obscene, show that the professor's critics were the subjects of "doxing" campaigns, where activists are personally identified and harassed online.

Prof. Peterson says he can't be held responsible for the harassment that his critics endure online, however, and justifies his hardline position on free speech by saying it allows hateful views to be exposed to the cleansing light of day.

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The most consequential event was an Oct. 11 protest on campus. At a so-called Rally for Free Speech, a transgender activist swiped the mic from Lauren Southern, a reporter from The Rebel Media, a conservative media platform. (The Rebel has since begun helping Prof. Peterson raise money for research.)

The next day, on the message board Voat, a discussion began about how to respond to the incident. "Anybody who touches Lauren is declaring war on Helen of Troy. Good luck," said one message in a string attempting to identify the perpetrator of the assault.

The comment marked the start of a campaign on that site and on 4chan to identify and publicize the names of the transgender activists. Posters on both sites nicknamed one of them #smugglypuff, a variation on a similar nickname given to a protestor at the University of Massachusetts earlier in the year. Memes of this person – who is alleged to have lied to police about witnessing the assault – and personal insults directed at them still populate the Internet.

Prof. Peterson was aware of the conflicts. On Oct. 14, he tweeted out a video of the incident, tagging it #smugglypuff.

"She [the student] watched the assault, she lied blatantly … She was taken to task on the Internet as a consequence and she got exactly what she deserved," he said in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

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In addition, YouTube provides him with several thousand dollars a month – an amount that fluctuates depending on viewership. And after his application for a federal research grant was turned down this year, Rebel Media, the same media outlet that was central to the October protest, started a crowdfunding effort on its own site on the professor's behalf. Should any donors wish to see his research proposal before supporting the work, it is also available on the Rebel site.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...nto-free-speech-crowdfunding/article35174379/

The confrontation has worked wonders for Peterson. His new book 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos has become a runaway bestseller in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, Germany and France, making him the public intellectual du jour. Peterson is not just another troll, narcissist or blowhard whose arguments are fatally compromised by bad faith, petulance, intellectual laziness and blatant bigotry. It is harder to argue with someone who believes what he says and knows what he is talking about – or at least conveys that impression. No wonder every scourge of political correctness, from the Spectator to InfoWars, is aflutter over the 55-year-old professor who appears to bring heavyweight intellectual armature to standard complaints about "social-justice warriors" and "snowflakes". They think he could be the culture war's Weapon X.
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His ballooning celebrity and wealth, however, began elsewhere, with a three-part YouTube series in September 2016 called Professor Against Political Correctness. Peterson was troubled by two developments: a federal amendment to add gender identity and expression to the Canadian Human Rights Act; and his university's plans for mandatory anti-bias training. Starting from there, he railed against Marxism, human rights organisations, HR departments and "an underground apparatus of radical left political motivations" forcing gender-neutral pronouns on him.

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Indeed he did. Camille Paglia anointed him "the most important and influential Canadian thinker since Marshall McLuhan". Economist Tyler Cowen said Peterson is currently the most influential public intellectual in the western world. For rightwing commentator Melanie Phillips, he is "a kind of secular prophet … in an era of lobotomised conformism". He is also adored by figures on the so-called alt-light (basically the "alt-right" without the sieg heils and the white ethnostate), including Mike Cernovich, Gavin McInnes and Paul Joseph Watson. His earnings from crowdfunding drives on Patreon and YouTube hits (his lectures and debates have been viewed almost 40m times), now dwarf his academic salary.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...he-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

And from /R/JordanPeterson's self identification survey

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And please let us all remember Classical Liberal is basically Conservative for those who realize Conservative has bad PR.

So 70% of the subreddit is right wing.

And if you're going to tell me he's getting paid for his religious speeches and not his constant attacks against post-modern neomarxists... aka you know Owning the libs" you'll have to provide receipts. 70% of his biggest meeting ground of followers is right wing on some level... you hand waived away all the videos that are made celebrating him doing that but look at his followers they're mostly right wing.
 
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Earthstrike

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,232
No, he blew up when he made it a point about freedom of speech and legislation: that was his entire argument. Thats why people listened in such numbers.
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He blew up when he convinced gullible people that C-16 restricts freedom of speech. A claim you seem to have fallen for. For allt his talk about listening to arguments, why don't you actually read c-16? Have you considered giving that a try?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
r/JordanPeterson's survey results are such a source of amusement... especially the IQ

92.8% report they have a higher IQ than 75% of the population

70.8% report they have a higher IQ than 91% of the population

40% report they have a higher IQ than 98% of the population

LOL

IFnIO1q.png


Other stuff from their various surveys
Dr. Peterson creates Christians. It may not be surprising to find out that Peterson has turned many listeners into Christians of some form or another. The percentage of those who identified as Agnostic before contact with Peterson dropped by half. The biggest Christian groups were "Other Christian" and "Catholic".

https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/6w9s5d/rjordanpeterson_survey_what_we_learned/

In the last American Election, approximately half of users supported Donald Trump, with a quarter supporting Gary Johnson, slightly less than a quarter supporting Clinton, with the rest supporting Jill Stein. If forced to choose between the main two candidates, two-thirds would support Donald Trump over Clinton.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPete...anpeterson_political_survey_results/?sort=top

50% Trump, 35% Gary Johnson.... LOL
 
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