Umm, when have grand juries been used to entrap activists?
Okay, that's a fair point, but what is the justification for the subpoena?
Again, the question here is not a legal one -- it's clear that legal authority exists to imprison her. The question is how it serves our country, and us as citizens, to imprison her for refusing to testify before a grand jury.
They're investigating Wikileaks and presumably the grand jury has questions for her. She was granted immunity and has an absolute obligation to comply with questioning. Jail in this case isn't a punishment but a means to get compliance.
It's no different than if you witnessed a car crash or a robbery and you were subpoenaed to testify about what you saw. If you are served with the subpoena, you must appear and testify truthfully, or else you can be held in contempt. One of the sanctions for contempt is to be held in custody until you comply. It "serves our country" to make sure that people testify about what they know.Okay, that's a fair point, but what is the justification for the subpoena?
Again, the question here is not a legal one -- it's clear that legal authority exists to imprison her. The question is how it serves our country, and us as citizens, to imprison her for refusing to testify before a grand jury.
It serves the country by maintaining a system that results in people providing testimony when requested. The alternative is a Wild West where no one shows up to testify without a vested interest.Okay, that's a fair point, but what is the justification for the subpoena?
Again, the question here is not a legal one -- it's clear that legal authority exists to imprison her. The question is how it serves our country, and us as citizens, to imprison her for refusing to testify before a grand jury.
Welcome to the 2010's. There's a new Star Wars sequel trilogy that has two movies already released with a third one coming soon.I'm just fascinated by the fact you treat russia as if you're living under the cold war. For what? Ok wikileaks is a laundering program for the FSB. What prevents the US, an endlessly more resourceful nation, from having a similar operation?
Your options are to nuke them, move away from democracy, or thinking that it is a big sham to cover up for the democratic party?I agree you should have sovereignty. The question then remains did the russians commit unforgivable crimes in regards to your elections? Should they be nuked for helping the opposition or should you move away further from democracy? Or is the whole thing just a big sham and an excuse for the dogshit democratic party?
I'm accusing you of being impossible to take seriously because you're using the term "deep state" without irony.
Are you trying to do a bit, here? Am I getting trolled? If you're trying to make a salient point, wipe those words from your mouth and come up with a way to phrase what you're trying to say that doesn't immediately associate you with literally the dumbest people on the planet. The words "deep state" don't have any business in an adult conversation except when quoted as "hilarious dumb shit Alex Jones has said".
Hard to imagine any other options in regards to committing to a fight with an enemy that's mostly imaginary. Do you confuse US sovereignty with imaginary actions on behalf of reaction to russia too, lib?Your options are to nuke them, move away from democracy, or thinking that it is a big sham to cover up for the democratic party.
wtfamIreading
You think Russia's increased aggression, political manipulation, social manipulation, and cyber operations are a fantasy? I don't know how to help you.Hard to imagine any other options in regards to committing to a fight with an enemy that's mostly imaginary. Do you confuse US sovereignty with imaginary actions on behalf of reaction to russia too, lib?
What about north korea's? The question is do you genuinely believe the level of nationalist panic raised by this shit? What do you actually think is gonna happen? Russia is gonna steamroll europe, soviet style? What are you so afraid of?You think Russia's increased aggression, political manipulation, social manipulation, and cyber operations are a fantasy? I don't know how to help you.
North Korea's cyber capabilities have gotten better, but their outside influence is a lot lower. Nuclear arms controlled by a man that seeks pleasure in cannon balling political enemies is always going to be a worry. I mostly feel bad for his citizens living in the misery of NK.What about north korea's? The question is do you genuinely believe the level of nationalist panic raised by this shit? What do you actually think is gonna happen? Russia is gonna steamroll europe, soviet style? What are you so afraid of?
Nice dodge. Are you still living under the impression Russia is the same people who defeated nazi germany or are they just a garbage turbocapitalist mafia state? Hard to tell the difference because you genuinely seem to believe they are a threat to your timeless empire of capital.North Korea's cyber capabilities have gotten better, but their outside influence is a lot lower. Nuclear arms controlled by a man that seeks pleasure in cannon balling political enemies is always going to be a worry. I mostly feel bad for his citizens living in the misery of NK.
What about north korea's? The question is do you genuinely believe the level of nationalist panic raised by this shit? What do you actually think is gonna happen? Russia is gonna steamroll europe, soviet style? What are you so afraid of?
Do you have a screw loose? What are you talking about? You seem to just be rambling now.Nice dodge. Are you still living under the impression Russia is the same people people who defeated nazi germany or are they just a garbage turbocapitalist mafia state? Hard to tell the difference because you genuinely seem to believe they are a threat to your timeless empire of capital.
Are you a US imperialist capitalist?Do you have a screw loose? What are you talking about? You seem to just be rambling now.
Nice dodge. Are you still living under the impression Russia is the same people people who defeated nazi germany or are they just a garbage turbocapitalist mafia state? Hard to tell the difference because you genuinely seem to believe they are a threat to your timeless empire of capital.
"The cancer of social media" is messaging very much in line with nazi germany at the time and place. Fearing anything new and more open is the revealing trait of the fascist animal.It's pretty obvious what the goals of Russia are.
The US is inherently fragile due to having an open media and divisive politics that have a lot to do on race. Feeding those fears and stoking the fires causes civil discourse to become chaotic to where someone like Trump can walk into the picture and be viewed as "normal" to the right wing.
Russia has found a way to use the cancer of social media to pump endless fake bullshit into peoples veins, and due to how social media is designed, which is basically created to hack our brains and crave more and more, people are doing nothing but taking in an endless stream of bullshit.
So now the US elected an ineffective leader who is not only withdrawing the US on the global stage, but actively threatening on a monthly basis to kill NATO, the military alliance that is responsible for Europe not having a war since WWII. Since the fall of the USSR, satellite states who fear Russia sought aid and military partnerships with the west so they could have guaranties that Russia couldn't just roll tanks down their roads and reclaim what they lost.
But since you're only response to things are -
I'm gonna say you're probably thebishops alt lol
"The cancer of social media" is messaging very much in line with nazi germany at the time and place. Fearing anything new and more open is the revealing trait of the fascist animal.
I think you should go first. If you're gonna refer to archaic stereotypes I can do the same. Keep in mind who the subject of this thread is, a woman who was tortured relentlessly by the US government, and the come back to me.so do you have any original thoughts or are you just gonna say stupid things to get people all riled up?
"The cancer of social media" is messaging very much in line with nazi germany at the time and place. Fearing anything new and more open is the revealing trait of the fascist animal.
Why would I dispute it? Why would you ever oppose it?Are you disputing the proven phenomenon of social media being weaponized by foreign actors in order to influence US politics?
The very thing that Facebook, Google and Twitter have openly admitted were taking place, and that they still are working to contain?
Because if not you sound like you're calling another user a nazi.
I think you should go first. If you're gonna refer to archaic stereotypes I can do the same. Keep in mind who the subject of this thread is, a woman who was tortured relentlessly by the US government, and the come back to me.
Because if not you sound like you're calling another user a nazi.
I wish her luck. I'm not understanding her stance on this but she's making a principled stand. I applaud her courage. Manning is problematic in some ways but she's braver than any of the posters criticizing her here.
Liberals are authoritarian and believe in "law&order" along with worship of existing structures of power, no matter how inhuman. Since Trump took office, hell even before under Obama, there are many posters who slavishly bootlick the deep state here at ERA. Every topic about Snowden, Manning, the Patriot Act, etc. etc. you will find liberals coming out of the woodwork to boot-lick. Every time.
there are many posters who slavishly bootlick the deep state here at ERA
Was waiting for her statement. But this is not a good look.
I mean the one thing people didn't expect the NSA to do was basically spy on literally everyone.The NSA is the signals intelligence arm of the US government
Wikileaks is a scorched-earth agent of chaos financed by the Russian mafia (which is also the Russian government) masquerading as a beacon of transparency and journalism.
I just find this person funny that he felt compelled to end his post with "lib". Couldn't have come up with a better or longer insult because want to avoid getting banned but now ironically he still got banned.Hard to imagine any other options in regards to committing to a fight with an enemy that's mostly imaginary. Do you confuse US sovereignty with imaginary actions on behalf of reaction to russia too, lib?
I asked this upthread but got no reply so:
Legality and morality aside, what does Chelsea Manning know that they couldn't get from any other witness or from her earlier statements? Wikileaks had hundreds of sources over the years. and thousands of people contacted them and Assange.. are they all being subpoenaed or is Manning a special case? If so, why?
There's nothing to pardon. She's only in jail until this gran jury is done.Wouldn't shock me if Trump gives her a pardon next.
That's how screwed up this whole thing is. Politics, once again, is eating itself alive.
A Grand Jury is a set of people who convene for a specific amount of time and hear multiple cases behind closed doors.What does it mean by: The jury no longer operating?
Is that just until the investigation ends?
we can only guess, but it seems like it would be something that was not known or not asked or something that had not yet occurred. My money is on any contact with wikileaks or associated individuals since she was pardoned...