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Judo gold medalist sings anthem himself after organizers refuse to play it
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
you're either choosing to ignore my point about exceptionalism or being purposefully dense so i'll end my posts in this thread by 'definitively' claiming that i'm not trying to compare which country is worse.
Israel is a uniquely fucked-up apartheid state at the moment, but lots of countries have problems, and using these international sporting events as an avenue for protesting them seems like it runs contrary to the spirit of these things, of international unity through sport.
You're flying the flag and playing the anthem out of respect for the people and their achievement in sport, regardless of the policies of their government. Refusing to recognize them feels like you're denying the existence of the nation, rather than protesting its policies (which, I get, a lot of Arab nations don't currently recognize Israel, but pretty much everyone accepts that the eventual path to peace involves recognition, and if you're not willing to recognize all participating nations in the event, at least for this one brief moment, you probably shouldn't be hosting)
The proper avenue for protesting as host in this scenario seems like it should be more about promoting the Palestinian competitors as best as possible, rather than through disrespecting the winner because of the crimes his country is currently engaged in.
You're flying the flag and playing the anthem out of respect for the people and their achievement in sport, regardless of the policies of their government. Refusing to recognize them feels like you're denying the existence of the nation, rather than protesting its policies (which, I get, a lot of Arab nations don't currently recognize Israel, but pretty much everyone accepts that the eventual path to peace involves recognition, and if you're not willing to recognize all participating nations in the event, at least for this one brief moment, you probably shouldn't be hosting)
The proper avenue for protesting as host in this scenario seems like it should be more about promoting the Palestinian competitors as best as possible, rather than through disrespecting the winner because of the crimes his country is currently engaged in.
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Holy shit, I'd love to respond to being called an anti-Semite and/or ignorant, but I'll respect the mod's request and keep things on topic.
If I misinterpreted I apologize but your initial response was to someone stating that with the exception of a few places Isrsael's treatment of Palestine is not very comparable to anywhere else in the world today and it is there that you brought up, in disagreement with that statement, the treatment of First Nations people by the United States (and made sure it make it clear you meant today).
The whole "we don't recognize the right of your nation to exist" thing from Israel's surrounding countries is a big macro-problem w/ Israel in the region that is a big part of why the situation has always been far more complex then "oh just punish the terrible apartheid state".
my point is not to excuse the state of israel but i don't think there's a statutory limit on the crime of genocide. i also think that more nations are doing a superb job of erasing their indigenous populations than we largely give them credit for. i don't think singling out israel in international sporting events like this (especially by a government as f'ed up as UAE) is motivated by concern for human rights atrocities as much as it's motivated by antisemitism.
there is literally a genocide that's been occurring in sudan for nearly 15 years. the turkish government refuses to acknowledge the systemic murder of 1.5 million armenians. what's happening to the palestinians is terrible and horrific but i fail to see why we single out israel while giving other countries a pass.
This isn't a European nation disagreeing with Israel's policy. Palestinians are Arabs same as any other Arab in another Arab nation, it's natural for them to hate the Israeli state for what they're doing to their relatives. Has Israel given the Arabs any reason to not hate it? The Palestinian struggle is an Arab struggle in the end.
no. the palestinian struggle is a human struggle. there's nothing fundamental that makes a human being an arab but there is something fundamental and prima facie that makes a human being a human being. approaching the problem with this sort of mentality - arab vs. jew - only helps drive these conflicts.
there's nothing 'natural' about hating a people, it's a learned behavior.
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I am not saying Israel has given other Arab countries any reason to love them. What I am saying is that the Palastinian plight is not why they did not play the anthem nor why they hate Israel. If Israel suddenly turned around and vacated the settlements, gave full rights to Palastinians and poured money into that region other Arab nations would still hate them.
This is a fresh start and a place of understanding each other's views and the important of letting those views be aired I guess and not shut them down if they differ from the majority.
So out of interest, do you recognise the untied states as country? Shouldn't the land be given back to the native Americans?
It sucks if you have national pride and you've successed and won and then can't stand proud while receiving your medal. But how else was this going to pan out with where it was taking place.
Why even invite someone from a country you don't recognise as a country in the first place?
would i protest the anthem being played? probably not, but potentially. would i object to it NOT being played? no
that's 100% fair. i just think that we may be kidding ourselves believing an official entity of the UAE of all places (which had legal slaves until like 50 years ago??) is not playing the israeli national anthem because of some noble concern over human dignity.
That user hasn't come back to the thread since the red moderation statement was issued as far as I can tell. No need to comment on it or report it again unless new posts are made. It was already called out by staff.
Israel are our 'allies', receive billions of dollars in funding from the US government and spend millions lobbying politicians to ensure Israel escapes any real sanctions for their crimes.
If you fail to see why they receive extra attention then you're simply not not paying attention.
There are plenty of reasons to not like Israel that do not involve anti-semitism.
i thought UAE didn't recognize israel as a legitimate country? why would they invite an israeli athlete to compete?
as a sidenote, i have a lot of respect for countries that don't recognize or don't have any relations with israel, considering how most of the word has chosen to ignore their treatment of palestinians
as a sidenote, i have a lot of respect for countries that don't recognize or don't have any relations with israel, considering how most of the word has chosen to ignore their treatment of palestinians
If it's an international event then the governing body probably doesn't let you ban athletes from competing on the basis of nationality. The UAE want the prestige/income/attention/whatever from hosting the event and not playing the Israeli anthem is a tiny little gesture that lets them pretend they give a shit about the plight of the Palestinian people.
They'll forget Palestine exists soon enough, if they haven't already.
SMH @ this mess. Do you understand what discrimination is?
uh, yeah, i do. examples include: operating an apartheid state in the middle east where the palestinian natives are relegated to second-class citizens
i don't see where the discrimination is, the host country doesn't recognize israel as a legitimate country, but couldn't stop the athlete from competing because as Zvonimir Boban said it's an international competition and they don't get to decide who can compete. but as the host they have to right to not play the national anthem of a country they don't consider legitimate. it would have been weird if they DID play the anthem.
the athlete got to comepete and won, good for him.
