Just Cause 4 renders as low as 720P on base PS4

Greebman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,620
What middle ground? [email protected]? That would be a terrible middle ground.

These consoles are very weak, with crappy outdated laptop CPUs. Shits gonna give, especially with such a main focus on physics calculations. They did what they could to get it running acceptably, and that's fine.
You can't gain performance by decreasing resolution when it's physics calculations on the CPU that are causing performance issues.
They boned up on the GPU side where there are plenty of resources, especially on Pro and X.
 

Vishmarx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,043
Ps5 will be out in Fall 2019 or more probably Spring 2020. It's not going to be 2 year, but more like just a bit more than one year of waiting.
Ps5 isnt going to fix 90% of this game's problems. Devs can always be forced to rush shit out no matter what the target hardware is.
 
Apr 10, 2018
3,494
I'm going to try and play it on an orginal Xbox One today(dependent on if it gets delivered today or not), so I'll showcase what I assume will be a shitshow.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
You can't gain performance by decreasing resolution when it's physics calculations on the CPU that are causing performance issues.
They boned up on the GPU side where there are plenty of resources, especially on Pro and X.
Erm
You do realize GPUs are capable of processing physics, yeah? (See : Nvidia Physix)
If you have a really shit CPU to work it, you will have to offload part of the physics calculations to the GPU. Which yes, will have a effect on resolution.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,625
Considered the bandwidth on the X I'm not so sure how solely the bandwidth was the issue. Even in the case they could opted of a sort of reconstruction or CBR like Ubisoft. It's not like on pc has no issue neither. Honestly I don't think was the best possible port. And by the way, I thought ps4 has dedicate gpu resources for the physics.
This is also a game unlike any other though and X's is running at a higher resolution most likely so the higher available bandwidth will be used up regardless. Other games shy away from use of physics while Just Cause is pretty much nothing without the physics. JC3 wasn't optimised for the 8 cores on consoles which caused the performance issues back then but this one is and is why you see an increase in performance.

And you wouldn't really use GPU for physics that much, not this kind of physics at least. Additionally you can only offload so much to the GPU and when you offload to the GPU you are putting further constraints on what and how much it can do which again...will lead to performance issues that can be mitigated by resolution drop.
 

mogster7777

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,738
You start hearing about stuff like this towards the end of the gen where lots of compromises are made to push graphical effects. Time for a new gen I think. Ambitious games like these simply not made for the laptop cpus of current gen consoles.
 

regawdless

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,689
EU
the water is a flat texture without even ripple effects. consoles arent that weak.
This isn't the point. A missing splash effect is more of an artistic oversight, adding a simple texture does not have a meaningful impact on performance.

They had to optimize for the moments when there is just mayhem on the screen, so the fps won't tank like in JC3. This means a lot of compromises because base hardware is very weak.

If they implement larger shadow draw distance, other stuff has to give. They are working with a very limited budget.
 

Fastidioso

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,326
This is also a game unlike any other though and X's is running at a higher resolution most likely so the higher available bandwidth will be used up regardless. Other games shy away from use of physics while Just Cause is pretty much nothing without the physics. JC3 wasn't optimised for the 8 cores on consoles which caused the performance issues back then but this one is and is why you see an increase in performance.

And you wouldn't really use GPU for physics that much, not this kind of physics at least. Additionally you can only offload so much to the GPU and when you offload to the GPU you are putting further constraints on what and how much it can do which again...will lead to performance issues that can be mitigated by resolution drop.
It's the first time by the way I heard lower resolution mitigate cpu deficits. I always knew it can help in some way but so much...I don't know what to tell you still no convince me at all. The lower resolution has always used to stress out the max cpu capability on pc, how can't affect in a bad way the cpu on console too, it's weird.
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,625
It's the first time by the way I heard lower resolution mitigate cpu deficits. I always knew it can help in some way but so much...I don't know what to tell you still no convince me at all. The lower resolution has always used to stress out the max cpu capability on pc, how can't affect in a bad way the cpu on console too, it's weird.
It's not mitigating cpu deficits. I've already explained why a CPU intensive task can bottleneck performance on GPU side on these consoles due to the nature of shared bandwidth and as a result lead to optimisations such as lowering resolution. And not only that, atleast in playstation's case it actually also lowers the total available bandwidth as CPU utilisation is increased.



And what you are talking about on PC is basically creating a test environment where the game is never GPU bound so that they can stress the CPU to its limit. That's why they'd lower the resolution, not because lowering the resolution magically increases CPU stress.
 
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Greebman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,620
Erm
You do realize GPUs are capable of processing physics, yeah? (See : Nvidia Physix)
If you have a really shit CPU to work it, you will have to offload part of the physics calculations to the GPU. Which yes, will have a effect on resolution.
Any evidence that this is done in Just Cause 4? Resolution dipping because of physics calculations in particular? Seems far-fetched to me.
OP mentions resolution dropping without much going on. That contradicts your theory.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,855
looks like their ambition was greater than reality of the hardware. It’s not the hardwares fault that a dev doesn’t stay within the constraints of what that they and hardware can do.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
Yeah, I'm also on board with "next gen can't come soon enough". Most games aren't really ambitious when it comes to underlying game systems. All of Avalanche's incompetence left aside this game still proves that current gen consoles can't handle complex physical calculations. And the stuff Just Cause 4 is going for is simply amazing. As I've said in the other thread, I would bet my ass that the tornado is the main reason why the game has to look like a last gen title on consoles and isn't a looker on PC either. Just keep in mind that the tornado can pick up hundreds of objects with some causing their own explosions. I still would've prefered if they left the tornado out and instead made more structures destructable.
 

JigglesBunny

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,766
Chicago
I’m playing on the X and I wouldn’t be shocked to be find out that it rarely reaches 1080p. It’s an incredibly ugly game. At least the performance is solid though.
 

jackdoe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
457
he could genuinely end up being correct. base xbox 1 might be around 600p as it is 35% weaker than PS4 . we had many instances when PS4 was 900p and xbox one was 720P. so it is really not hyperbolic to say that honestly
A most recent example would be RDR 2 with a resolution difference of 1080p vs 864p. If base PS4 drops as low as 720p, 560p is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.
 

Vishmarx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,043
This isn't the point. A missing splash effect is more of an artistic oversight, adding a simple texture does not have a meaningful impact on performance.

They had to optimize for the moments when there is just mayhem on the screen, so the fps won't tank like in JC3. This means a lot of compromises because base hardware is very weak.

If they implement larger shadow draw distance, other stuff has to give. They are working with a very limited budget.
Artistic oversight lmao.
Anyone with functional eyesight can notice that the second you approach water.
Hell the color gradation issue is visible in the first 5 minutes when you enter a cave.
If youre in hdr its in the main menu itself.
 

Dest

The Fallen
Jun 4, 2018
2,209
Work
Gonna go out and say it, but this gen consoles should have been 900-1080p at 60FPS without exception. The race to make your games look pretty made games overall feel like a step back because they just don't respond as well. I'd much rather have a not as nice looking game that runs better than one that runs like dog poop to make sure everything is pretty. This isn't just the case for Just Cause 4, as I understand here it's most likely a CPU related issue.

If the next gen of consoles doesn't support 60FPS in all titles by either design or the option to toggle between that and fancy mode, I might have to skip out. I'm at the point where 30FPS and lower makes me sick, and I'm not talking because it upsets me but because looking at it will literally make me feel nauseous.
 

Fastidioso

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,326
It's not mitigating cpu deficits. I've already explained why a CPU intensive task can bottleneck performance on GPU side on these consoles due to the nature of shared bandwidth and as a result lead to optimisations such as lowering resolution. And not only that, atleast in playstation's case it actually also lowers the total available bandwidth as CPU utilisation is increased.



And what you are talking about on PC is basically creating a test environment where the game is never GPU bound so that they can stress the CPU to its limit. That's why they'd lower the resolution, not because lowering the resolution magically increases CPU stress.
I don't understand what exactly is wrong from what I said. I never said the cpu is magically stressed.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,355
They could try finding a more reasonable balance?
A dynamic scaler *is* reasonable balance. From the wording, doesn't sound like the game is locked to 720p native, but drops to it to maintain performance.

The biggest complain people had with JC3 was the performance. This is an improvement over JC3 as most people/places say the performance is at least consistent this time around.
 

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,100
New Jersey
i'll wait for DF, but even if true, i dont know why its a big deal. nioh did the same thing, spent most of its time around 720p. Its just a matter of the CPU and GPU being used to a max limit for the physics in JC4 versus 60fps in Nioh
 

Rosur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,867
They've gone for FPS over graphics this time round so not really surprised the base consoles have suffered graphically. I would expect the same in Rage 2 as that use the same engine as Just Cause 4.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,489
Gonna go out and say it, but this gen consoles should have been 900-1080p at 60FPS without exception. The race to make your games look pretty made games overall feel like a step back because they just don't respond as well. I'd much rather have a not as nice looking game that runs better than one that runs like dog poop to make sure everything is pretty. This isn't just the case for Just Cause 4, as I understand here it's most likely a CPU related issue.

If the next gen of consoles doesn't support 60FPS in all titles by either design or the option to toggle between that and fancy mode, I might have to skip out. I'm at the point where 30FPS and lower makes me sick, and I'm not talking because it upsets me but because looking at it will literally make me feel nauseous.
Well, kiss all your open world games goodbye. Desktop CPUs run too hot for consoles.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,458
Amazing how many people are using this one game as an excuse to dump on other fans of videogames, or call current consoles no-longer-capable.
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,063
If the performance is good then I dont see the big issue. JC games have never been known for their graphics, especially on consoles. 720p is a low resolution, and I wouldn't want to use it on a large display, but I would choose the game lowering its res, rather then be hit with big performance drops. Its not locked 720p, but a dynamic solution.
 

Zedelima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,740
Yeah, i understands that the game pushes the CPU.

But there’s no excuse for the textures, unfinished areas and all kinds of bugs that are happening right now.

I think they ran out of time. And im surprised that considering everything, the reviews are good as they are
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,177
You can't gain performance by decreasing resolution when it's physics calculations on the CPU that are causing performance issues.
They boned up on the GPU side where there are plenty of resources, especially on Pro and X.
Are we sure this game doesn't use GPU acceleration for some of the physics?

I'd be surprised if they aren't.