Reading my local paper which is in a deep red state (ugh) and how they discuss the Mueller report.... basically downplaying what's in it while enforcing "Trump did nothing illegal and Mueller says that as well"
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Justice Department releases redacted Mueller report (See Threadmarks for Summaries)
- Thread starter GK86
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It's a thing I see a lot of people do, much like adding unnecessary quotes around words, to stress emphasis.
Yeah interesting how the report that totally exonerates him is now the "Crazy Mueller Report" that's full of "total bullshit" isn't it?
Also I didn't think he'd really shock me anymore but reading the President of the United States say "total bullshit" on his official Twitter, which counts as an official statement to the people, literally made my jaw drop and I gasped.
Because he has a 4th or 5th grade reading level.
You're applying logic to a speaker and audience who care not about such things.
No but for real, what is the hoax? Did the mueller investigation not even take place and they just twiddled their thumbs for two years? Or the results are the hoax? If so then how can the results be illegally started? Paper was stolen from Office Max? Trump is an imbecile.
I'll check later. Idk if I'm interested in hearing that smug, shit eating voice ever again, that's how disgusted I still am with what she said.
The basic conclusion of the Mueller report regarding obstruction is that Donald Trump only committed obstruction if Congress says that he committed obstruction. In other words, the long and short of it is, "Hey Congress, did Donald Trump commit obstruction of justice?" The answer to that question, and the result of impeachment, is a foregone conclusion.
The House has the ability to impeach -- the equivalent of bringing him to trial -- and the Senate has the responsibility of determining whether or not to convict. The House might impeach. The Senate will absolutely, under no circumstances, convict on the issue of obstruction of justice.
That's it. That's the final say. That's the decision. You don't need to go through the process to know the result. There isn't a 1-in-100 chance that 20 Republican senators turn on Donald Trump. There isn't a 1-in-10,000 chance. There isn't a 1-in-14,000,605 chance. It's zero. It's already done. You might as well ask a bunch of mobsters if they want to convict themselves, or go home and continue committing crime with impunity. Are you expecting a sudden outburst of good faith debate? Evidence-based decision making? A jaw-dropping wave of actual patriotic sentiment? It's 2019. We know what the deal is.
The fact that gaining a supermajority in the midterms wasn't a possibility in 2018 isn't relevant, other than to say that the conclusion of potential impeachment on grounds of obstruction of justice (to be determined by Congress) was set in stone even before 2018. I just grabbed up 2018 because it was the last time Senate seats were decided. But sure, even if Democrats and Independents held every seat and won every seat possible and ended up with 58 votes in the Senate, it would still be a near impossibility. At best, you'd get Murkowski, Collins, Romney, maybe Rand Paul... and that's it, assuming that none of the newly won seats were theirs. Regardless, if it was one vote from there, there'd be a chance. But nothing would happen from five votes out.
If you want to argue the semantics of it not being officially voted on, whatever. I don't need to touch a red-hot stovetop to know what would happen to my hand.
A really basic counter to his tiresome "Totally Fake Hoax Report Out To Get Me" claim is if it was fake and set up just to get him, why doesn't it openly list collusion, conspiracy, obstruction, etc, recommend impeachment or indictment, etc? If they were supposedly making up false claims and notes, why not make up one that says "Trump colluded" instead of saying they were unable to determine if collusion occurred?
In short, if it's a hit job it's a really poorly done one.
In short, if it's a hit job it's a really poorly done one.
Long winded of way saying ' let's sweep these crimes under the rug'.
Push for the full report. Begin impeachment. Tie up Trump with endless hearings and investigations. Derail his agenda. Ferociously protect the integrity of the 2020 elections. Vote him out. Prosecute him for obstruction, as laid out in the report. Lock him up.
We can't have critical thinking here, it's too much for Trump supporters. For Trump and his goons, it's a hoax/witch hunt etc. when under fire. But when it comes to PR and spin, it totally clears the President.
"Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
^ I just keep quoting that single sentence from the report anytime someone claims Trump is innocent or that he shouldn't be impeached.
^ I just keep quoting that single sentence from the report anytime someone claims Trump is innocent or that he shouldn't be impeached.
Huh, the Trump tweets actually came earlier than I expected. I was anticipating that first we'd get the story from inside the White House about how he surely got mad watching TV coverage realizing this looks bad for him and then shouting to everyone that it was pointless to appoint Barr if he wasn't going to redact this stuff
They are underprepared to face the consequences of their actions, are slinging mud at a Republican lead investigation (Mueller), and trying to push back at a Democratic process. The results are not a hoax.
They're just trying to keep the political pot stirred and run the clock as much as possible.
They're embarrassed and they're trying to fight against time and the law.
Essentially, they're just all assholes and they got caught.
You gotta realize (you probably do) that the people that after all this are still behind Trump are at this point in no way interested in reality. They need their alt-right fake news websites to tell them this whole investigation is a hoax, that every democrat is a fraud, that migrants are at our doors trying to rape us, that black people and gays are planning to take our identity and rights away, and so on. These people don't realize that until 24 hours ago, they trusted the Mueller report by acknowledging the so-called "result" Barr published. Now that the real conclusions are there, suddenly they are ready to believe the report is a hoax again. Cognitive dissonance at its best, not believing anything that impacts their thoughts and beliefs. Trump (or his advisors) know this all too well by now: his loyal fanbase can and does change opinions and views in minutes if the narrative spins.
The alt-right "info" sources are stuff worth analyzing, honestly. Throughout the years there were the most insane patterns, and it was hilarious to see "bad people" suddenly turn "good people" the moment they said or did a specific action. It was very noticeable in the fake news blogs in Italy, where in the past decade we had prime ministers changing every 5 minutes. The current minister was always illuminati, pro-gay, pro-banks or whatever the fuck, then a couple days after their fall towards a new leader, suddenly it turns out the "righteous leader" was trying to pass a law to save poor people, or ensure Italy would print their own money instead of relying on the EU, and so on. I'll never understand how can anybody look at those "news" sources seriously, and yet millions of people do, believing such shit.
I had a couple talks about the whole Trump situation with a member of my family. After the Barr report, he thought Trump was declared innocent, so I had to fill him on the reality of the situation. He still went on to say that nothing matters until he is in prison, until then he may as well be innocent. This would be an agreeable point of view: not jumping to conclusions, not just believing anonymous sources (even if by reputable journalists), waiting for an official verdict. Except this is also a person who believes in stuff like chemtrails, 9/11 inside job, HAARP causing earthquakes, the Soros plan, the ethnic cleansing against white people in Europe and so on. Stuff that hasn't a single verified or reliable source. It's interesting how facts and official sources only matter when their idols are touched.
Fantastic article about it
https://www.newyorker.com/news/lett...mps-presidency-but-it-sure-makes-him-look-bad
https://www.newyorker.com/news/lett...mps-presidency-but-it-sure-makes-him-look-bad
It's all part of the Trump playbook, the one that's just wrecking your democracy.
Everything is true AND false at the same time.
It's a fake report that exonerates me because it's a brilliant report that's written by Democrat saboteurs that leaves them looking really stupid.
See also:
It's a rigged election which is why I won which is why I am investigating the fraud which is why I am not investigating the fraud which is why I didn't not win.
Everything is true AND false at the same time.
It's a fake report that exonerates me because it's a brilliant report that's written by Democrat saboteurs that leaves them looking really stupid.
See also:
It's a rigged election which is why I won which is why I am investigating the fraud which is why I am not investigating the fraud which is why I didn't not win.
Lawfare put out a very good analysis:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-mueller-found-russia-and-obstruction-first-analysis
Below is an excerpt that perfectly encapsulates why anyone suggesting Mueller concluded he didn't have enough evidence for obstruction is wrong:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-mueller-found-russia-and-obstruction-first-analysis
Below is an excerpt that perfectly encapsulates why anyone suggesting Mueller concluded he didn't have enough evidence for obstruction is wrong:
So proud that Colbert is from here. What a masterful performance.
Well not quite.
The report states that it can't answer that question currently due to OLC guidelines. Because of the position Trump holds any criminal charges sought against Trump cannot supersede the constitutional responsibilities of Congress to determine if impeachment is necessary. However, when Trump is no longer president the things outlined in the Mueller Report could be sought after in a court of law. The problem Mueller faced was to outright say Trump committed a crime would have necessitated an indictment against Trump which currently he can't do per the DOJ.
Impeachment has and always will be the only thing Congress has power to do. The rest of what you said about how unlikely it is for Trump to be seen as guilty of obstruction in the eyes of Senate Republicans is dead on though. Even if a handful of Republican senators defected it still wouldn't be enough.
It's comical that seemingly all of Trump's problems here were self-inflicted. I accept that he benefited and wanted to benefit from foreign influence, but there was no direct collusion. All of the lies and obstruction were to cover for something he didn't do anyway. If he had let the investigation run its course and been open about it he'd have had the "total exoneration" he claimed. Instead, his fragile ego couldn't deal with anyone questioning his victory or suggesting that he got any votes via Russian influence, so he lied and obstructed over and over, and coerced others into obstructing, and created all of his own problems here, all of which are more serious than the original collusion accusation. However, I think his main concern all along was that an investigation would spread to the financial crimes we all know he has done, and that's what really prompted his, "I'm fucked", response.
I like your thinking in the posts I have read from you. You are seeing the things as I do. Keep up the good work.
That's not what the report concludes, so I don't know why you'd accept that.
Yeah, it was always going to be very difficult to prove the sort of direct criminal conspiracy, particularly as none of the people who would have been involved ultimately flipped in a meaningful sense.
The best evidence for such activity, if it occurred, is probably in a fileroom in the Kremlin.
It's funny that the party of strict morals and law and order is the one to become bereft of either. Nobody in positions of power in his party care enough to do anything about it while Donald Trump sets us back decades.
Things were bad when Obama was in power and Republicans just started running on their xenophobia and racism instead of dog whistles but now it's becoming clear our system of governance is inadequate in dealing with Presidents like Trump.
Trumps always operated on the idea if you're not attacking you're losing.
Things were bad when Obama was in power and Republicans just started running on their xenophobia and racism instead of dog whistles but now it's becoming clear our system of governance is inadequate in dealing with Presidents like Trump.
Trumps always operated on the idea if you're not attacking you're losing.
It also seems he was right because we do know they are investigating financial crimes now. It is hilarious in hindsight that he did completely screw himself over.
The report states: "Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities."
Even *if* some back room deal happened, proving it was always going to be highly unlikely considering the power a wealthy PotuS has to influence witnesses, pay them off, etc.
The biggest issues for Trump in that report are all the obstruction issues, which in hindsight were not needed and were driven by his own fragile ego and fear of the investigation spreading to his finances, which it didn't.
fragile ego? lol
WHY IS EVERYONE IGNORING THE SDNY INVESTIGATION!? trump is a criminal! he doesn't want ANY investigations because they might bump into the crimes he committed! WHICH THEY DID! the lies and obstruction have NOTHING to do with pride or ego and everything to do with his CRIMES!
How do you know it is not spread to his finances. Do you know what these other investigations are for?
So they're back to being 18 angry democrats again? I thought he was proud of the report back when it was only a 4 page
I think because, more likely than not, an SDNY indictment only comes after Trump's term ends. Those of us who don't want a criminal to be rewarded with the presidency wouldn't want to wait.
The doctors found his phone. He had smuggled it in his isolation cell.
The biggest issue thus far anyway.
To me it's very clear that a large portion of the redacted content in the report is in relation to Roger Stone and his relationship with Wikileaks. Cohen has stated that he was in the room when Stone mentioned through speaker phone to inform Trump that Wikileaks was prepared to dump more information regarding Clinton's campaign. This opens up campaign finance issues due to the fact that the campaign was working with a foreign entity. Unfortunately Volume 1 was primarily focused on the issue of conspiracy with Russia. Though it's clear that Wikileaks was acting as an intermediary for the hacked information.
Stone is currently being charged with obstruction, lying to investigators, and witness tampering. I'm interested to see though how much of his relationship with Wikileaks and how they clearly helped, with full knowledge of the campaign, Trump's candidacy is also being examined. I'm certainly no expert but working with a foreign entity knowingly instead of alerting the FEC to those communications seems highly dubious legally.