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Justice Department releases redacted Mueller report (See Threadmarks for Summaries)
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
The report also states that numerous witnesses deleted or encrypted large amounts of communication that they were unable to acquire. It says they weren't able to establish a connection, not that there wasn't any. So given that he tried to obstruct the investigation, that evidence was destroyed, and that links were established, just not direct links, I don't know why you'd just accept that nothing happened.
OLC guidelines which state that any indictment of a sitting president would negatively affect their ability to carry out their constitutional duties. They can't pursue criminal charges against Trump until he leaves office either due to his term limit, being voted out, or impeachment.
Any bets that the name that harms an ongoing matter is Hannity, Sean?
Hope so
Because the DOJ's policy is that a sitting president can't be indicted.
Any bets that the name that harms an ongoing matter is Hannity, Sean?
Really good catch and interesting possibility!
I know that... which Is why I suggested that dems should wait until SDNY finish their investigation before impeaching. I was more wondering about the timeline of the SDNY investigation itself. I'm sure the SDNY can submit a report to congress in order for them to begin impeachment process.
Man, all the Mueller report YouTube videos *have* to be being brigaded by trolls right now. (Russian or otherwise) Who the fuck watches VOA? Yet this video, along with all the other trending Mueller report videos, *no matter the content of the video*, is just tons of comments about "MSM lies!" from, I'm sure, real American Joes like "American silverback", complete with a Gadsen flag avatar and no YouTube history.
Listen, I'm not naive enough to think that these are *all* trolls. There's surely real Trumpists out there downvoting this shit. But it sure is fucking suspicious.
Listen, I'm not naive enough to think that these are *all* trolls. There's surely real Trumpists out there downvoting this shit. But it sure is fucking suspicious.
So no direct collusion and no proof, as I said. I don't know why you're arguing or talking to me like I'm defending the clown. Even CNN acknowledges the lack of proof of collusion and the serious obstruction issues.
what if the SDNY finish their investigation during trump's presidency?
I don't mean to come across that way, so I apologize if I am. I get your overall meaning - that what we can point to right now is obstruction, with certainty. I just don't think you should "accept" that there was no collusion. It's really just a matter of semantics, I guess. I recognize that there's no evidence at this time, but I remain incredibly skeptical.
The lack of collusion proof is only because of the high standard required. I.e. handing polling data to Kilimnik isn't collusion, however handing the same info over and telling them what to do with it is.
We all know the Russians didn't need to be told what to do with the data...
There aren't serious obstruction issues, Mueller made it very clear that he could have exonerated the President if the evidence led to that. However, he could not indict no matter what the evidence led to, that's on congress. Can you guess what he did?
Oh my god I would scream
Any bets that the name that harms an ongoing matter is Hannity, Sean?
smh... there is no way that the law has a gaping hole this wide. if I hand you a gun and I don't explicitly tell you to shoot my enemies and you shoot my enemies, how is it that I'm not implicated in the crime?
Did you read the report? Manafort have Kilimnik polling data (on multiple occasions) and yet, no collusion.
There is direct evidence of cooperation though, which is problematic in and of itself. The campaign knowingly and willingly TRIED to get aide from the Russians. That in and of itself is collusion. They couldn't prove a criminal conspiracy with the Russians, I think that's how that needs to be phrased. Collusion isn't a crime (in the legal sense) so they never would've been able to charge anyone with collusion no matter what the findings were.
Your hypothetical implicates entirely different laws. The crime at issue would be handing the gun over which in many cases is a crime regardless of what the gun is later used for.
Any bets that the name that harms an ongoing matter is Hannity, Sean?
Good catch. What is the context of the list?
Yeah, I'm not as versed in the actual law as you'd probably need to be to parse it all out. There is more than enough evidence of some cooperation between the campaign and Russia. The fact that they destroyed evidence and tried to cover it up just makes me think things are even worse than we know. And what we know ISN'T GOOD, not be a long shot. They even have proof that Manafort handed over polling data for battleground states that Trump ultimately won, and that swung the election.
Took away his phone and put on Fox News. Maybe a warm bottle and changed his diaper.
Collusion isn't a criminal charge with any high standard of proof.
If nothing else, I have had a good laugh from seeing shitheels like Gleen Greenwald lose their fucking minds over the report.
I was aware of this... it was also a big deal across news outlets when this came out as info during Manafort's trials. something has to change. Yesterday on NPR a former Acting CIA director(can't remember his name) suggested that laws have to change in regards to the bullshit that went on between Russians and trump campaign. In light of what happened, there has to be a more clear definition of what coordination with foreign entities could mean.
It is illegal. They just can't indict him without impeachment proceedings, as long as he's president.
Right, because collusion isn't a crime. Conspiracy against the United States is though. That is what Mueller was investigating.
Edit: I should explain better. They definitely colluded, however, it didn't rise to the level of conspiracy against the United States.
Wait so the report that "completely exonerates Trump" is also a fabrication written by 18 angry democrat Trump haters? 🤔
Its better just to take it at face value because the headache isn't worth it.
Fox news was on the gym last night, I can't wait until the investigation in to real colluders, the Democrats and Hillary, begins!
Accepted. I think you're getting too focused on specifics. Proving a criminal conspiracy re collusion was always going to incredibly unlikely, even if it happened. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Doesn't really matter now, that ship has sailed, plenty of other things to pin on him. My point all along here was imagine what this report would look like if he hadn't lied and obstructed over and over, because it's the lies and obstruction that everyone is now focusing on.
Right. So that's the terminology that should be used if talking about standards of proof, as it's pretty obvious he did collude with Russia. Mueller just didn't think there was enough evidence to convict of a crime in a court of law.
It's a glossary of all the names encountered in the report, in the appendix.
Trump won this game. Nothing more to discuss.
Trump won, take the L and vote correctly. Problem is that the majority of the US will vote for him for a second term.
No, he was investigating obstruction of justice, end there was zero evidence.
Trump won, take the L and vote correctly. Problem is that the majority of the US will vote for him for a second term.
All the slow trickling of facts from the report. Holy shit fuck Barr. What a lackey. Straight up lies. lol
Obviously was getting ahead of the damage and trying to muddy public perception to soften the blow.
Its just...sad...at this point how many jaded Americans got/are getting fooled by this propaganda machine. The possibly sensible ones that are decent need to wake the fuck up.
Great Watch Thanks for sharing
I'm curious if this was filmed hours after the release or later at night.
Obviously was getting ahead of the damage and trying to muddy public perception to soften the blow.
Its just...sad...at this point how many jaded Americans got/are getting fooled by this propaganda machine. The possibly sensible ones that are decent need to wake the fuck up.
Great Watch Thanks for sharing
I'm curious if this was filmed hours after the release or later at night.
The phrase "zero evidence" used in connection with this 400 page report is the dumbest take imaginable.
Stop saying this shit. The majority of the US will not vote for him again.
What? There is evidence of obstruction for 10 different instances... And plenty of evidence of collusion (not a crime).
No he investigated both the conspiracy with Russia as well as obstruction. That's the whole purpose of why there's two volumes to the report, one for each topic. On the first he found several links but not the "smoking gun" evidence he needed in order for him to claim beyond a reasonable doubt that a conspiracy between the campaign and Russia took place.
On the second, he blatantly makes the statement that if Trump didn't obstruct justice, he would say so. But due to procedure and the laws of the land, he's unable to in the report outright say that obstruction took place, even though he provides evidence of 10 separate instances where Trump attempted to obstruct the investigation, one of them being successful in firing James Comey.
Your take here is blatantly wrong.
Nice post Kanye..you deserved to be dogpiled for such a terrible take. lol
"Take the L"...son, this isn't a sports match.
It really does feel like the 2020 election is going to be a referendum on whether Americans feel Trump should be charged with crimes and tried or not. If enough Americans still care about rule of law over racism, he'll be a one-term President and face charges once he's out. If racism in America is more important than anything else, the huge rally to re-elect him and get four more years to find a way to avoid charges is going to be all the proof of what America is really about in the 21st century.