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Deleted member 11413

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I recall her being inconsistent about that in a way that confused me. Of course it wouldn't be the first time that a victim would be ambivalent about calling their experience "abuse" in public just as a matter of personal judgment and not out of fear of reprisal. I tend to lean on respecting the victim's judgement in terms of commentary though it carries the risk of, well, the abuser continuing to behave the way they do uninhibited like in this case.



For a while this was how I parsed the circumstances. It is kind of amazing the degree to which Heard's behavior is done out of a very explicit malice with explicit awareness of the context of her actions. I guess we'll see if there's anything she has to offer with more substance than "the people against me are bots" but at this point I doubt it.
No that's a good point, and I would defer to her judgement and experiences as well. Look, domestic abuse is a complicated subject. In many cases its an isolated incident brought on by outside stressors and not a pattern of behavior. I can understand how a victim of a one time assault from a partner would be willing to forgive and recontextualize the situation given those factors. Perhaps that WAS the situation with Heard's previous partner, and then her behavior escalated with Depp.

Like you, I thought it was a mutually abusive situation for a while as well (and thus was not interested in condemning Depp specifically for behavior they both engaged in equally), but all this evidence makes it clear that the abuse was lopsided on her part, she was AWARE of how abusive her behavior was and continued engaging in that behavior anyway, and specifically used society's lack of empathy for male victims to continue to abuse Depp. Meanwhile Depp repeatedly tried to leave the abusive situation and diffuse it.
 

Deleted member 11413

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Well, I'm pretty sure psychopathy is real if defined as one with diminished emotional empathy and general lack of many emotions such as guilt and fear.
Cognitive empathy can be learned just fine by people with NPD and psychopathy given enough observation/intelligence. It's how they know to game the system or weaponize other people's reactions.

I think Heard can be said to display psychopathic tendencies or characteristics as a descriptor without being "ableist". I mean, I get it. I am on the autism spectrum and I score higher than the norm on the psychopathy scale (for "some reason" LOL), which isn't great, but I think the term is still useful enough in some cases.
No, N. Tyranno is right on this one. Psychopathy is an outdated and harmful term with very little (if any) medical or scientific basis. There are plenty of other legitimate diagnoses that explain this type of behavior.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I'll be honest, I fully expected Resetera to side more with the "both parties were abusive towards each other" angle of the story instead of almost fully siding with Depp
Don't worry the majority of the people on Amber's side are still waiting for a come from behind victory before coming back in here. There was people trying to both sides it and still Depp as a dirt bag, but those audio tapes are pretty damning and if Depp did physically harm her? It's looking like self defense.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
No, N. Tyranno is right on this one. Psychopathy is an outdated and harmful term with very little (if any) medical or scientific basis. There are plenty of other legitimate diagnoses that explain this type of behavior.
This sounds like a case of semantics in the end (like I will still use Aspergers as a descriptive even if it's changed to be autism spectrum disorder because I think it's useful lol).

If people are going to be "well actually psychopath/sociopath doesn't exist as a real diagnosis, but Antisocial Personality Disorder does," these are all just talking about the same things to me.
Though technically, I don't agree with just calling people like Heard a "psycho" because that just means "crazy person; possibly violent" in the vaguest sense, so you're right in that it shouldn't really be used in professional/serious reporting.

Maybe I think "psychopathic tendencies" being short hand for "exhibits some traits found in people with ASPD" is specific enough and therefore ok?
 

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
676
I'll admit this was my fear as well, and I'm very proud of this site and its posters for almost unanimously putting common sense and decency before anything else like politics or saving face.



That would be great. I've been thinking about this so more insight and points of view are always appreciated.

Found it.

medium.com

“If You Really Loved Me”: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard

We, as feminists, claim to be staunch allies to victims of domestic violence. That we must believe women when they say they feel abused…

And here's an extra video by Double Toasted.

 

yerrr

Banned
Nov 19, 2019
96
User Banned (1 Month): Misogynistic Rhetoric


This is why movements like #believewomen can be dangerous. The public was on Heard's side from day one and she knew that would be the case because she's a woman. People who questioned her claims were "victim blaming" and shamed. She literally ruined a mans life and career over a bunch of lies.

I feel bad for all the men out there who are falsely accused and don't have the money to fight to clear their names like Depp did.
 

Deleted member 11413

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This sounds like a case of semantics in the end (like I will still use Aspergers as a descriptive even if it's changed to be autism spectrum disorder because I think it's useful lol).

If people are going to be "well actually psychopath/sociopath doesn't exist as a real diagnosis, but Antisocial Personality Disorder does," these are all just talking about the same things to me.
Though technically, I don't agree with just calling people like Heard a "psycho" because that just means "crazy person; possibly violent" in the vaguest sense, so you're right in that it shouldn't really be used in professional/serious reporting.

Maybe I think "psychopathic tendencies" being short hand for "exhibits some traits found in people with ASPD" is specific enough and therefore ok?
It's better to just not use it at all
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,456
This sounds like a case of semantics in the end (like I will still use Aspergers as a descriptive even if it's changed to be autism spectrum disorder because I think it's useful lol).

If people are going to be "well actually psychopath/sociopath doesn't exist as a real diagnosis, but Antisocial Personality Disorder does," these are all just talking about the same things to me.
Though technically, I don't agree with just calling people like Heard a "psycho" because that just means "crazy person; possibly violent" in the vaguest sense, so you're right in that it shouldn't really be used in professional/serious reporting.

Maybe I think "psychopathic tendencies" being short hand for "exhibits some traits found in people with ASPD" is specific enough and therefore ok?

Hans Asperger was a Nazi collaborator and a Eugenecist.

You shouldn't be using that either.
 

Weltall Zero

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Zero315

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,188
Damn. I'm ashamed I gave that fucking article a click. Nothing but pure dribble. And fuck Kathy. She's only after attention.
She is one of Amber's best friend, in case you had any doubt.

DyIS2iqUwAElnMF.jpg


Shocking I know.

Not surprised, she's been making it a habit for the past year or so to surround herself with shitty people like Heard, Shane Dawson, and Jeffree Starr.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,600
What's messing with my head is the lack of big media coverage in the US.

Depp's career took a hit over this, so you would think it's fair to report on this now that the truth is out.

A victim of abuse is being thrown under the bus.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,456
Oh CLEARLY NOT, she's totally BURSTING with empathy thank you for your concern trolling bullshit thoughts.

Excuse me? You cut out part of my post and call it concern trolling? I'm not even defending her, or saying empathy has to be an accurate or even positive response to someone's perspective. I'm an abuse victim myself. I just want to keep what is a god damned borderline slur out of this thread.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,963
North Carolina
God I can't imagine how he is even getting through all this. I know how it feels to be in this situation. My ex-girlfriend was incredibly abusive and it was an absolute struggle. It really breaks you. And people just don't give half a shit when the roles are flipped. People straight up tear into you for letting a women beat you down. No fuckin' sympathy out there. And it can all backfire if they decide to say you are the abuser because its so much more believable for people. And he has to deal with it all plus the whole world knowing his business. I feel so bad for him.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,555
Boston, MA
They likely don't want to admit they were wrong on the matter is my guess.
Media and everyone else.

I know we heard that Heard had a past with domestic abuse but these recordings of her just make her seem much worse. Like if she isn't physically abusing you she is just verbally and mentally doing it. Can't imagine how Depp felt when people buried him while he deals with alcoholism and substance abuse.
 

Deleted member 19533

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Excuse me? You cut out part of my post and call it concern trolling? I'm not even defending her, or saying empathy has to be an accurate or even positive response to someone's perspective. I'm an abuse victim myself. I just want to keep what is a god damned borderline slur out of this thread.
You're concern trolling.

Also, the ability to get mad doesn't mean you have empathy. She's not sharing and understanding HIS feelings. She's manipulating and being narcissistic. Angry she's not getting what she wants. Her behavior, by definition, is psychotic.
 

LBsquared

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Nov 22, 2019
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Media and everyone else.

I know we heard that Heard had a past with domestic abuse but these recordings of her just make her seem much worse. Like if she isn't physically abusing you she is just verbally and mentally doing it. Can't imagine how Depp felt when people buried him while he deals with alcoholism and substance abuse.
People used his drinking to justify their belief he was beating her, knowing full well victims often drink and overeat to excess.

Excuse me? You cut out part of my post and call it concern trolling? I'm not even defending her, or saying empathy has to be an accurate or even positive response to someone's perspective. I'm an abuse victim myself. I just want to keep what is a god damned borderline slur out of this thread.

I'm honestly confused. Are you worried someone is slandering her by referring to her as a psychopath or worried they're slandering psychopaths?
 

MoonScented

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Oct 28, 2017
685
God I can't imagine how he is even getting through all this. I know how it feels to be in this situation. My ex-girlfriend was incredibly abusive and it was an absolute struggle. It really breaks you. And people just don't give half a shit when the roles are flipped. People straight up tear into you for letting a women beat you down. No fuckin' sympathy out there. And it can all backfire if they decide to say you are the abuser because its so much more believable for people. And he has to deal with it all plus the whole world knowing his business. I feel so bad for him.

I feel for you. My ex would regularly punch me in the face & head. She eventually stopped half-way through our relationship, but the emotional abused became 100x worse. That relationship destroyed me and I'm still recovering 4-5 months after it ended.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,600
It doesn't fit the narrative.

Really puts into focus people's morals and priorities then, and it's shameful.

To think, I put him in the same boat as others outed by metoo. I feel ashamed, embarrassed, and played. Something like this doesn't give me much faith in people claiming the moral high ground on Twitter or in the news if you can't admit you got it wrong.

This cost him his career and 7 million dollars thanks to a lie. And it turns out he was the victim. I feel very shitty right now.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,027
God I can't imagine how he is even getting through all this. I know how it feels to be in this situation. My ex-girlfriend was incredibly abusive and it was an absolute struggle. It really breaks you. And people just don't give half a shit when the roles are flipped. People straight up tear into you for letting a women beat you down. No fuckin' sympathy out there. And it can all backfire if they decide to say you are the abuser because its so much more believable for people. And he has to deal with it all plus the whole world knowing his business. I feel so bad for him.

Yeah I've been there as well and one of the worst things she did was go around telling her friends, family and colleagues that I was essentially manipulating and outright abusing her. That's an awful feeling.
 

Deleted member 11413

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People used his drinking to justify their belief he was beating her, knowing full well victims often drink and overeat to excess.



I'm honestly confused. Are you worried someone is slandering her by referring to her as a psychopath or worried they're slandering psychopaths?
They are not concern trolling, they are referring to the demonization of people with mental illness by using the term 'psychopath'.
 

The Auxiliary

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
170
You're concern trolling.

Also, the ability to get mad doesn't mean you have empathy. She's not sharing and understanding HIS feelings. She's manipulating and being narcissistic. Angry she's not getting what she wants. Her behavior, by definition, is psychotic.
I think they're just trying to get folks to stop using/ misusing the word "psychotic". As someone who deals with psychosis/ has a psychotic disorder, using the word like this not only paints a shitty picture of us by continuing to associate he word with abusive, violent behavior etc..., but it's just straight up the wrong word to use for her manipulative, gaslighting, and abusive actions.
 

Deleted member 48897

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I think they're just trying to get folks to stop using/ misusing the word "psychotic". As someone who deals with psychosis/ has a psychotic disorder, using the word like this not only paints a shitty picture of us by continuing to associate he word with abusive, violent behavior etc..., but it's just straight up the wrong word to use for her manipulative, gaslighting, and abusive actions.


Hell, I'd argue that some people are using a questionable definition of empathy here too. Heard was extremely successful in surmising what other people would think about the circumstances that she and Depp were in -- that he would not be believed. This is not uncommon; many abusers are, strictly speaking, quite emotionally intelligent. That's how they manage to get away with their behavior for as long as they do.
 

GYODX

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Oct 27, 2017
7,234
Media in this country is a fucking joke. I fully expect Amber Heard's career to suffer zero setbacks.
 

Deleted member 19533

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I think they're just trying to get folks to stop using/ misusing the word "psychotic". As someone who deals with psychosis/ has a psychotic disorder, using the word like this not only paints a shitty picture of us by continuing to associate he word with abusive, violent behavior etc..., but it's just straight up the wrong word to use for her manipulative, gaslighting, and abusive actions.
Bruh, the definition has the word violent in it. "a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior. "

The shoe fits. She has an abnormal thought process and is delusional. She is this across the board.

Now, not all psychopaths exhibit the same traits, but she's got them all.
 

Deleted member 60295

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Hans Asperger was a Nazi collaborator and a Eugenecist.

You shouldn't be using that either.

Hey, neurodivergent individual here. While I personally no longer describe myself as having Asperger's syndrome for that exact reason, people on the autism spectrum do not yet universally agree that the term should be retired. Not even close. In fact, a whole bunch of ASD individuals still refer to themselves as "aspies," which of course is derived from "Aspergers." So if you're on the spectrum yourself, I hope you understand that this is still a serious matter of disagreement within our community - and if you're not on the spectrum, please do not speak for us, thank you.
 

The Auxiliary

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
170
Hell, I'd argue that some people are using a questionable definition of empathy here too. Heard was extremely successful in surmising what other people would think about the circumstances that she and Depp were in -- that he would not be believed. This is not uncommon; many abusers are, strictly speaking, quite emotionally intelligent. That's how they manage to get away with their behavior for as long as they do.
I haven't read a lot of what people have been saying about this, but honestly a lot of people only associate the ability to have empathy with a positive consideration of people's feelings. However, I think the term is actually quite neutral. People like her are able to weaponize empathy to a scarily effective degree, using their ability to perceive and understand others' feelings in a negative way. Just because she's using it to cause harm doesn't mean she lacks empathy. I feel that she has it, but is potentially using her ability to gage people's feelings to manipulate them into being on her side, or saying to Depp things like "If you loved me, you would x...."

Bruh, the definition has the word violent in it. "a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior. "

The shoe fits. She has an abnormal thought process and is delusional. She is this across the board.

Now, not all psychopaths exhibit the same traits, but she's got them all.
I don't know where you're getting your definition of psychotic, but any definition with "violence" as one of it's features is a poor definition. Here. This is all that the word entails:

Dd1nznf.png

qy6Yj3p.png


People who experience psychosis usually have hallucinations and/or suffer from delusions, have difficulty perceiving reality, etc...

"Psychopath", on the other hand, is a kind of word with no real mental illness attributed to it. It's just a kind of scary buzz word that people use when thinking about fictional and real murderers and people who make selfish, terrible, and shocking decisions at the cost of others, basically to paint all people who do dark, violent, inconceivable things we can't understand. I would steer clear of using "psychopath" in this way because people inevitability link it with "psychotic," which is used interchangeably by most folks...
 

Deleted member 19533

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I haven't read a lot of what people have been saying about this, but honestly a lot of people only associate the ability to have empathy with a positive consideration of people's feelings. However, I think the term is actually quite neutral. People like her are able to weaponize empathy to a scarily effective degree, using their ability to perceive and understand others' feelings in a negative way. Just because she's using it to cause harm doesn't mean she lacks empathy. I feel that she has it, but is potentially using her ability to gage people's feelings to manipulate them into being on her side, or saying to Depp things like "If you loved me, you would x...."


I don't know where you're getting your definition of psychotic, but any definition with "violence" as one of it's features is a poor definition. Here. This is all that the word entails:

Dd1nznf.png

qy6Yj3p.png


People who experience psychosis usually have hallucinations and/or suffer from delusions, have difficulty perceiving reality, etc...

"Psychopath", on the other hand, is a kind of word with no real mental illness attributed to it. It's just a kind of scary buzz word that people use when thinking about fictional and real murderers and people who make selfish, terrible, and shocking decisions at the cost of others, basically to paint all people who do dark, violent, inconceivable things we can't understand. I would steer clear of using "psychopath" in this way because people inevitability link it with "psychotic," which is used interchangeably by most folks...
You're being disingenuous here. You very clearly know where I got the definition from based on the intentional attempt at separation in that last bit. The link to mental disorder is there as well. This is the word that was originally in question and called out. You're clearly attempting to change the argument for a straw man style victory.

CyqpLKe.png


It's being used properly. End of discussion. This attempted derailment in defense of this horrid person is ridiculous.
 

The Auxiliary

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
170
You're being disingenuous here. You very clearly know where I got the definition from based on the intentional attempt at separation in that last bit. The link to mental disorder is there as well. This is the word that was originally in question and called out. You're clearly attempting to change the argument for a straw man style victory.

CyqpLKe.png


It's being used properly. End of discussion. This attempted derailment in defense of this horrid person is ridiculous.
Being disengenuous? You used psychotic "by definition" earlier and then in your last post (the one before this one I'm quoting) used psychopath in a similar way. Also, did you not see the other part of my post not directed to you? How the hell am I defending this abuser? All I'm asking is that you keep people like me in mind when using these words to talk about people like her instead of frivolously equating them. There's no need to use words like "psychotic" or "psychopathic" when talking about her. This kind of use of the word had directly caused my sister to be afraid of me because "isn't that what it is?"

It hurts no one to change one's vocabulary.
 

Deleted member 11413

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You're being disingenuous here. You very clearly know where I got the definition from based on the intentional attempt at separation in that last bit. The link to mental disorder is there as well. This is the word that was originally in question and called out. You're clearly attempting to change the argument for a straw man style victory.

CyqpLKe.png


It's being used properly. End of discussion. This attempted derailment in defense of this horrid person is ridiculous.
Eh, no one is attempting to defend Heard here. They are just taking issue with your use of historically problematic language. There is no strawman either, this is a very real problem that contributes to the stigmatization of mental illness.

You can just say Heard is an abuser, you don't need to delve into psuedo-scientific tropes to describe her behavior.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,840
When I said the second audio is her trying to act like a victim because she knew she was recorded ( used audio in court so both parties knew it was recorded ), I meant stuff like this :




She wanted that. Depp refused. Then she went public with allegations.

So now she says " I dont want a dime of your money !! ".

But she couldnt help letting her real self throughout

1) " your lawyer made me do this, I was gonna get evicted out of the convo ! "

2) my reputation online * cries *

3) what are you gonna do ? Tell the world I started these things ? You're a man, you're stronger, nobody will believe you

4) a prosecutor said I had the best domestic violence case he had ever seen ! ( intimidation since it was dismissed with prejudice, can never be refiled )

5) when you got mad and threw a phone in my face and grabbed me, I feared for my life because you're stronger ! So you dont get to reply with " but I had just lost a finger! " it doesnt matter


Im glad we are 4 years later so that we know nothing came out of her empty threats legally. But publicly all she needed was allies in the press.
 
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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Let me put it this way. The important phrase is "believe women". Not "put some specific women up who are making accusations on a pedestal and make them cause celebre or the center of the movement".
Yeah well alot of people don't understand believe women does not equal that.

5) when you got mad and threw a phone in my face and grabbed me, I feared for my life because you're stronger ! So you dont get to reply with " but I had just lost a finger! " it doesnt matter
JFC....no one but immediate family should be riding for this lady.
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,070
When I said the second audio is her trying to act like a victim because she knew she was recorded ( used audio in court so both parties knew it was recorded ), I meant stuff like this :




She wanted that. Depp refused. Then she went public with allegations.

So now she says " I dont want a dime of your money !! ".

But she couldnt help letting her real self throughout

1) " your lawyer made me do this, I was gonna get evicted out of the convo ! "

2) my reputation online * cries *

3) what are you gonna do ? Tell the world I started these things ? You're a man, you're stronger, nobody will believe you

4) a prosecutor said I had the best domestic violence case he had ever seen ! ( intimidation since it was dismissed with prejudice, can never be refiled )

5) when you got mad and threw a phone in my face and grabbed me, I feared for my life because you're stronger ! So you dont get to reply with " but I had just lost a finger! " it doesnt matter


Im glad we are 4 years later so that we know nothing came out of her empty threats legally. But publicly all she needed was allies in the press.

This is one huge HOLY SHIT!
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,345
Is this seriously not being reported by mainstream news in the US? Disturbing if so.
 

The Living Tribunal

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,201
When I said the second audio is her trying to act like a victim because she knew she was recorded ( used audio in court so both parties knew it was recorded ), I meant stuff like this :




She wanted that. Depp refused. Then she went public with allegations.

So now she says " I dont want a dime of your money !! ".

But she couldnt help letting her real self throughout

1) " your lawyer made me do this, I was gonna get evicted out of the convo ! "

2) my reputation online * cries *

3) what are you gonna do ? Tell the world I started these things ? You're a man, you're stronger, nobody will believe you

4) a prosecutor said I had the best domestic violence case he had ever seen ! ( intimidation since it was dismissed with prejudice, can never be refiled )

5) when you got mad and threw a phone in my face and grabbed me, I feared for my life because you're stronger ! So you dont get to reply with " but I had just lost a finger! " it doesnt matter


Im glad we are 4 years later so that we know nothing came out of her empty threats legally. But publicly all she needed was allies in the press.


What a massive piece of shit.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
What's messing with my head is the lack of big media coverage in the US.

Depp's career took a hit over this, so you would think it's fair to report on this now that the truth is out.

A victim of abuse is being thrown under the bus.
Writing about this would mean admitting they were wrong before, so they don't do it. Probably still waiting for Heard to give a believable spin on this, and you can bet your asstheyll be reporting in masses if that happens.
They are all cowards to the highest degree.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,456
Hey, neurodivergent individual here. While I personally no longer describe myself as having Asperger's syndrome for that exact reason, people on the autism spectrum do not yet universally agree that the term should be retired. Not even close. In fact, a whole bunch of ASD individuals still refer to themselves as "aspies," which of course is derived from "Aspergers." So if you're on the spectrum yourself, I hope you understand that this is still a serious matter of disagreement within our community - and if you're not on the spectrum, please do not speak for us, thank you.

I was diagnosed with asperger's myself. I am fully aware of what you said. And while I respect the views of others like myself, I feel I cannot morally or scientifically speak up for its continued use.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,840
????

What


she what ??

7fb4a75bd95d2ef6edeffad0c19036d1.png


edit :

Ok so this is from a few months ago, I don't know why it showed up today as "top news" ??

This is what she said btw

88917295ad0bc8bc1c7a97d2638267ed.png


Can you imagine if he didn't have the recordings ? She would literally make him look crazy in the eyes of the public.
 

Yippiekai

The Fallen
May 28, 2018
1,475
Toulouse, France
Legit what is the reason news sites in America won't touch this. Are they afraid of back lash?

My opinion on this is that America post-Trump is fucked. Everything has become "you're on one side or the other, no in-between". We had a few people here coming as soon as the recordings went out that only were trouble it would hurt the feminism case, not giving a fuck about the abuse Depp really went through and I think most outlets are on this side of the argument.

They won't talk about it because it would mean anti-feminists will rejoice on this if it goes out in the open. They won't approach the subject, as it doesn't fit into the narrative. If they admit they were wrong on this, it would be admitting they didn't fully research on the subject before crucifying Depp the last time. And in this day and age, admitting this would be giving the other side enough arguments to break everything they worked for in the last four years.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
My opinion on this is that America post-Trump is fucked. Everything has become "you're on one side or the other, no in-between". We had a few people here coming as soon as the recordings went out that only were trouble it would hurt the feminism case, not giving a fuck about the abuse Depp really went through and I think most outlets are on this side of the argument.

They won't talk about it because it would mean anti-feminists will rejoice on this if it goes out in the open. They won't approach the subject, as it doesn't fit into the narrative. If they admit they were wrong on this, it would be admitting they didn't fully research on the subject before crucifying Depp the last time. And in this day and age, admitting this would be giving the other side enough arguments to break everything they worked for in the last four years.
Idk I think that's ridiculous.
I really do, more worried about a movement than justice? This wouldn't be the first time someone lied about something and it hasn't stopped any movements in the past.

Trust in that person vanishes, the movement does not.
 
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