#JusticeForJohnnyDepp trending following Amber Heard admitting to hitting and throwing pots, pans, and vases at Depp in leaked audio [See Staff Post]

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,631
Anyway, earlier in that tweet conversation, Miller says “[Heard] sounds like a teenager” and “[Depp] sounds drunk.”

It’s not just a refusal to admit fault. She’s doing what the media has always done, taken Johnny’s legitimate struggles with things like substance abuse and his eccentricities to paint him in the most unfavorable light possible through all of this.
 

TatteredHat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,470
lol, so suddenly abuse doesn't matter if you're a millionaire huh. Guess I'll take notes for the next time someone in hollywood gets abused.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,575
Lol. I fucking hate modern online “progressivism”. It’s all about posturing and pushing puff pieces that support your side instead of actually trying to address all aspects of the issue.

Yeah I've becoming increasingly jaded with modern progressiveness as of late as well. Everyone just wants to be seen as the good guy but when push comes to shove and difficult stances need to be made, most just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't fit with the narrative they've concocted in their head. It's sickening.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,044
When you intentionally misrepresent what the other person is saying to defeat it easier is a straw man. He changed the word we were discussing to say the definition was inaccurate when it's word for word. That's exactly what it was. Reread the post. He intentionally tries to distance the word at the core of the discussion to change it.

She is the definition. The word is being used correctly.
You continue to miss the point, and are misrepresenting N. Tyranno immensely. I consider them a friend and know intimately the struggle they have gone through as a victim of abuse and from the mental illness caused by that abuse, so please just stop. Multiple people have kindly attempted to explain to you the issue with what you are saying, and you refuse to listen to them (many of them male victims of abuse). You aren't helping by doing this.
 

MikeBreezy92

Member
Oct 28, 2019
182
Yeah I've becoming increasingly jaded with modern progressiveness as of late as well. Everyone just wants to be seen as the good guy but when push comes to shove and difficult stances need to be made, most just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't fit with the narrative they've concocted in their head. It's sickening.
I even struggle to call it that. Like it seems so easy to get the information we got and just go "oh damn we were wrong" but people have on their clown noses and have to perform I guess.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,044
I even struggle to call it that. Like it seems so easy to get the information we got and just go "oh damn we were wrong" but people have on their clown noses and have to perform I guess.
Part of being progressive is acknowledging when you are wrong. It's literally impossible to make progress in society without doing that. Every single bit of societal progress humans have ever made has been through acknowledging the harms and wrongs of the past and attempting to rectify them.
 

Ryu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
722
People are so fucking scared that their precious internet persona is going to be labeled a “this” or “that” side these days that they’re not capable of approaching sensitive and complex issues like these with any sort of flexibility, finesse, or understanding. They’ll just push their initial point harder or bail completely. It’s fucking pathetic. Continue to hate so much about these times.
Basically. All those labels are crazy. Didn't even know what this MRA, MGTOW and what not are and don't care for them. Don't care for the more feminist ones too. I read "white-cis-privilege" and my skin crawls. Never labeled myself, never will. Never judged according to a label, never will. Never cared for anyone's sex, skin, religion, never will. Why can't people use their common human sense is beyond me. Why people so desperately need to be IN something is beyond me. Someone got hurt/abused? Support him/her. We're in a time where most discussion actually revolves around all those dumb labels instead of the core issue. Where people are afraid of losing their status in a group or movement instead of actually helping the course. Being progressive never meant to me that you need to care for all those things and labels and what not but actually should care for people no matter who this person is. I think some got this wrong.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,345
a sunken pirate ship
*People

But we all know that's never gonna happen.
I think that's the wrong lesson to take from all this. Failing as a culture to take a position on these matters just gives abusers more cover to engage in abuse. The idea that there's some foolproof method to keep people from getting away with abuse misunderstands how abuse happens, and how it is perpetuated. There is no social strategy so airtight that someone can't find a way to exploit it, doubly so when most cases don't get the level of attention this one does, specifically because the people involved are both public figures.

At some point in order to even attempt justice you have to make judgments on incomplete information, some of which might be reported dishonestly. I strongly believe that there is never going to be a way around this.

I read "white-cis-privilege" and my skin crawls. Never labeled myself, never will. Never judged according to a label, never will. Never cared for anyone's sex, skin, religion, never will. Why can't people use their common human sense is beyond me. Why people so desperately need to be IN something is beyond me. Someone got hurt/abused? Support him/her. We're in a time where most discussion actually revolves around all those dumb labels instead of the core issue. Where people are afraid of losing their status in a group or movement instead of actually helping the course.
I think this is also a really naive way of looking at things as well. It's not, strictly speaking, a matter of labels, but of who we grant relative credibility to. People at Depp's stature usually have fewer bars to entry to the kind of social support that circumstances require. One need only look at the case of, say, Vic Mignogna to see an example of a public figure who actually was a massive predator for all of his life and, despite having a legal case so shoddy that it effectively went viral on account of it (and plenty of documentation, including video under oath, he engaged in the same behavior he was suing for defamation over), got a massive outpouring of support from people. Why? Because he was a white dude. Even if you demonstrate a lower predilection for unconscious bias in that way than most people, that doesn't change the fact that, like, hundreds of thousands of people live in cultures in which this sort of credibility or assumption of good faith specifically for white dudes is normalized.

This absolutely makes a difference when examining these cases with questionable evidence, because, again, many abusers are very good at controlling the flow of information about their behavior. Knowing Depp's history of issues with substance abuse was actually part of the reason why I was dubious of claims of his innocence, for example, as many people use drugs, alcohol, etc. as a means to engage in abusive behavior. Were it the case, he would also not be the first abuser to try to reverse claims of behavior -- common enough that there's a fairly mainstream acronym coined to refer to that pattern of behavior. Of course, go figure that it seems like Heard did that very thing herself.

And beyond this matter -- that our identities necessarily exist in cultural contexts we as individuals are not fully in control of -- I think another important issue is that, like declaring one's self a rational being, that someone is rarely a good analyst of their own biases. People who try to fight the way cultural programming influences our biases are generally pretty clear about how you do that -- it takes a lot of work, a lot of counter-programming, and there is no point that you can stop and say "Well, I'm done. My biases are fully flushed away!" Doubly so because none of us have perfect information about the state of the world. In practice many times we can do little more than replace our currently held unconscious biases with different, ideally more conscious biases, because those biases inform how we respond in cases where limited knowledge is available. I would say we do want those biases to be conscious, though, because then it is far more likely that we can understand how they inform our reaction to circumstances in life. (And a corollary to all this is that I don't think it's necessarily healthy to fully transform one's opinions in the face of pieces of conflicting evidence either. That evidence is never coming free from biases either!)
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,063
Basically. All those labels are crazy. Didn't even know what this MRA, MGTOW and what not are and don't care for them. Don't care for the more feminist ones too. I read "white-cis-privilege" and my skin crawls. Never labeled myself, never will. Never judged according to a label, never will. Never cared for anyone's sex, skin, religion, never will. Why can't people use their common human sense is beyond me. Why people so desperately need to be IN something is beyond me. Someone got hurt/abused? Support him/her. We're in a time where most discussion actually revolves around all those dumb labels instead of the core issue. Where people are afraid of losing their status in a group or movement instead of actually helping the course. Being progressive never meant to me that you need to care for all those things and labels and what not but actually should care for people no matter who this person is. I think some got this wrong.
Sorry mate, but if you are cis white hetro you have a LOT of privilege. You are not subject to systemic racism, homophobia, or trans and gender phobias by default. That is huge, massively huge and undeniable.

Your post is the equivalent of "I don't see colour, so racism does not exist".

LGBTQ+ people and others need labels for all of the positive solidarity they bring. Denial of this is the negative parts of privilege, it is part of the problem.

This does not, in any way, mean cis white hetro people cannot suffer, or be victims, or be subject to isms. It just means that they are not immediately subjected to them by default.

I truly hope you are able to understand this.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,244
Florida
Just saw this on twitter





Ah yes of course
I'll wait for these articles to mention the Amber Heard is also white... pretty rich... And quite famous... That's not to say Depp is a man without his fair share of privileges.

"Do you really think anybody will believe that a man can be a victim?"

- Amber "Being A Woman Makes Abuse Ok Because Oppression Olympics" Heard
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,646
Yikes, let's not turn this thread into "complaining about why I'm called cis" lol
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,692
Orange County
It is pretty terrifying how intolerant people are becoming of one another on a world wide scale. I feel like people are really no longer interested in the world becoming a better place. The only real focus is making sure your belief systems or ideologies are infallible. Nobody takes the time to consider the feelings or position of anyone else. It’s crazy to me
 

Ryu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
722
Sorry mate, but if you are cis white hetro you have a LOT of privilege. You are not subject to systemic racism, homophobia, or trans and gender phobias by default. That is huge, massively huge and undeniable.

Your post is the equivalent of "I don't see colour, so racism does not exist".

LGBTQ+ people and others need labels for all of the positive solidarity they bring. Denial of this is the negative parts of privilege, it is part of the problem.

This does not, in any way, mean cis white hetro people cannot suffer, or be victims, or be subject to isms. It just means that they are not immediately subjected to them by default.

I truly hope you are able to understand this.
"I don't see colour, so racism does not exist".

How about no? Why do things like these always imply for some that you don‘t believe in racism? I’m not judging anyone by skin, religion or anything and that’s all there is to it and it would probably be hard to ask everyone to follow suit, but it would‘ve been good if everyone could’ve agreed on this yesterday.

I think this is also a really naive way of looking at things as well. It's not, strictly speaking, a matter of labels, but of who we grant relative credibility to. People at Depp's stature usually have fewer bars to entry to the kind of social support that circumstances require. One need only look at the case of, say, Vic Mignogna to see an example of a public figure who actually was a massive predator for all of his life and, despite having a legal case so shoddy that it effectively went viral on account of it (and plenty of documentation, including video under oath, he engaged in the same behavior he was suing for defamation over), got a massive outpouring of support from people. Why? Because he was a white dude. Even if you demonstrate a lower predilection for unconscious bias in that way than most people, that doesn't change the fact that, like, hundreds of thousands of people live in cultures in which this sort of credibility or assumption of good faith specifically for white dudes is normalized.

This absolutely makes a difference when examining these cases with questionable evidence, because, again, many abusers are very good at controlling the flow of information about their behavior. Knowing Depp's history of issues with substance abuse was actually part of the reason why I was dubious of claims of his innocence, for example, as many people use drugs, alcohol, etc. as a means to engage in abusive behavior. Were it the case, he would also not be the first abuser to try to reverse claims of behavior -- common enough that there's a fairly mainstream acronym coined to refer to that pattern of behavior. Of course, go figure that it seems like Heard did that very thing herself.

And beyond this matter -- that our identities necessarily exist in cultural contexts we as individuals are not fully in control of -- I think another important issue is that, like declaring one's self a rational being, that someone is rarely a good analyst of their own biases. People who try to fight the way cultural programming influences our biases are generally pretty clear about how you do that -- it takes a lot of work, a lot of counter-programming, and there is no point that you can stop and say "Well, I'm done. My biases are fully flushed away!" Doubly so because none of us have perfect information about the state of the world. In practice many times we can do little more than replace our currently held unconscious biases with different, ideally more conscious biases, because those biases inform how we respond in cases where limited knowledge is available. I would say we do want those biases to be conscious, though, because then it is far more likely that we can understand how they inform our reaction to circumstances in life. (And a corollary to all this is that I don't think it's necessarily healthy to fully transform one's opinions in the face of pieces of conflicting evidence either. That evidence is never coming free from biases either!)
Yikes, let's not turn this thread into "complaining about why I'm called cis" lol
Was not my intention and I do understand this. TBH I didn’t want to say „why do people think I‘m privileged as a white cis“. But I rather take the L for not explaining extra that I meant the message of this page:



There was no need to include this and that‘s all there is to it. They used labeling to strengthen their point while all that this did was making them look more horrible than before. That was not a good way of using it and I would stand my point in this context.

yeah sure, fat lol at this too :v
Would‘ve loved to see what you wrote before you edited it :) but fat lol @ you too
 

Braag

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,401
Yeah I've becoming increasingly jaded with modern progressiveness as of late as well. Everyone just wants to be seen as the good guy but when push comes to shove and difficult stances need to be made, most just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't fit with the narrative they've concocted in their head. It's sickening.
Main reason why I don't like getting into debates about such issues online because people try to come off as holier than thou and I just can't stop seeing how the whole behavior seems off.
Being progressive is a good thing but yeah, unfortunately it isn't really equal in all matters and too many people misuse it to push their own narrative.
 

Ryu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
722
Do you really think you have never said micro-aggressive things in your life? even by accident?
I do. A lot. But not in terms of prejudice. I don't like everyone, don't get me wrong. I'm not a saint. But as long as I remember I told myself to judge after knowing someone better. There's a difference to it.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,272
I do. A lot. But not in terms of prejudice. I don't like everyone, don't get me wrong. I'm not a saint. But as long as I remember I told myself to judge after knowing someone better. There's a difference to it.
But prejudice isn't always something that you yourself are conscious of, that line of thinking doesn't prevent you from benefit from your innate privileges at the expense of other,on the contrary, it preemptively excuses future missteps.
 
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astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,063
"I don't see colour, so racism does not exist".

How about no? Why do things like these always imply for some that you don‘t believe in racism? I’m not judging anyone by skin, religion or anything and that’s all there is to it and it would probably be hard to ask everyone to follow suit, but it would‘ve been good if everyone could’ve agreed on this yesterday.
Your stance is harmful. I have explained it as best I can.

Other people ITT have explained it better, too.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,923
Listening to these tapes Amber Heard is a sociopath there's no other way to describe what's going on here. You have depp trying to plead with empathy and compassion then you have heard detailing her meticulous plan full of lies and deception to thoroughly ruin the mans life. She's even gloating while she does this about how awesome she is at it.
 

Garjon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,503
I cannot believe I'm STILL seeing people both sidesing this situation. This is the fucking problem with woke culture, at some point it becomes less about protecting victims of abuse and becomes all about going to bat for your team.There's a large portion of people for whom being woke is about exploiting vulnerable people, abuse victims and minorities for retweets. Amber Heard has not only destroyed a man's life, she has made it much harder for other abuse victims to get help and support and it is increasingly clear that her defenders and other woke people on social media care more about saving face and sticking up for their 'side' than about that. It's not just this incident, I see it almost every time an accuser is found to have lied/embellished the details. This incident should be a point where people start to reconsider their attitude going forward and start allowing the accused to respond before immediately jumping to pressing the Cancel button, particularly when details are spotty. I'm not optimistic though :/
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,272
Yeah not gonna listen to those tapes.

I am already incredible upset about the situation, earing someone gloating about ruining someone else life won't be good.
 

Dever

Banned
Dec 25, 2019
316
Just saw this on twitter





Ah yes of course
This makes me think, if there's enough woke people in positions of power, doesn't the whole privilege pyramid become reversed? If the entire media establishment treats cis white males as villains by default because they've bought into this ideology, well, where's the privilege in that?
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,272
This makes me think, if there's enough woke people in positions of power, doesn't the whole privilege pyramid become reversed? If the entire media establishment treats cis white males as villains by default because they've bought into this ideology, well, where's the privilege in that?
Wtf are you even saying?
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,381
"I don't see colour, so racism does not exist".

How about no? Why do things like these always imply for some that you don‘t believe in racism? I’m not judging anyone by skin, religion or anything and that’s all there is to it and it would probably be hard to ask everyone to follow suit, but it would‘ve been good if everyone could’ve agreed on this yesterday.
The simplest way to explain the problem with your stance is that being able to 'opt out' of identity politics is in and of itself only an option for the privileged.

The reason everybody doesn't do what you're saying they should is because they can't. The world has already put them in those boxes. Their only choices are to own it and group up for their own defence, or get pushed around & trodden on.

I'm not trying to lecture you because it's obvious you're not coming from a bad place on this, you don't even have to change your own outlook, it's just that it needs to be made clear that there's major repercussions for marginalized people doing what you're able to do in this case without having to worry about it. I'm sure many would happily follow you if it was a viable road the world laid out for them.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,063
This makes me think, if there's enough woke people in positions of power, doesn't the whole privilege pyramid become reversed? If the entire media establishment treats cis white males as villains by default because they've bought into this ideology, well, where's the privilege in that?
Take a few minutes and think about this.

Please.
 

Aine

Member
May 27, 2019
1,751
Just as I guessed, people are using this as an excuse to condemn social justice across the board. Real easy to abandon "wokeness", isn't it?
 

Dever

Banned
Dec 25, 2019
316
Take a few minutes and think about this.

Please.
Well obviously this case is unrelated to things like police brutality affecting black people or workplace sexual harassment affecting women. So I'm not saying "muh white men are so oppressed" or anything silly like that. Men are generally privileged over women. It just seems this case showcases how the media tried to correct for this privilege they thought Depp had, and ended up smearing an innocent guy instead. And now there's not even any reporting on this or accountability for the media.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,063
Well obviously this case is unrelated to things like police brutality affecting black people or workplace sexual harassment affecting women. So I'm not saying "muh white men are so oppressed" or anything silly like that. Men are generally privileged over women. It just seems this case showcases how the media tried to correct for this privilege they thought Depp had, and ended up smearing an innocent guy instead. And now there's not even any reporting on this or accountability for the media.
No, one instance does not mean the system has swung back the other way. Please don't be absurd.

It would take the majority of case to mean that. Do you really believe that is where we are? No. You said that in the comment above.

We can say how awful this specific situation is without lamenting that somehow the victims have become the oppressors.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,475
New York
Abuse is abuse. It’s pretty obvious who is the abuser here. Anything else is just obfuscation. I condemn abusive. Period. I fear once we start adding caveats we lose any right to claim any moral authority.

I cannot believe I'm STILL seeing people both sidesing this situation. This is the fucking problem with woke culture, at some point it becomes less about protecting victims of abuse and becomes all about going to bat for your team.There's a large portion of people for whom being woke is about exploiting vulnerable people, abuse victims and minorities for retweets. Amber Heard has not only destroyed a man's life, she has made it much harder for other abuse victims to get help and support and it is increasingly clear that her defenders and other woke people on social media care more about saving face and sticking up for their 'side' than about that. It's not just this incident, I see it almost every time an accuser is found to have lied/embellished the details. This incident should be a point where people start to reconsider their attitude going forward and start allowing the accused to respond before immediately jumping to pressing the Cancel button, particularly when details are spotty. I'm not optimistic though :/
All Facts. No Filler.