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Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,765
I know that women are under more scrutiny when it comes down to weight, and that the general public is more likely to notice a huge shift in that regard, but you are deadass wrong if you think that
male idols just do not diet, on top of having to build mass and maintain it through gym. This is pretty weird to believe male idols have "much more energy" to use in their performances than female idols do because they don't diet. A quick google search would show that they, in fact, diet a lot as well.

I was too busy googling why female idols fainting on stage seems to happen more often than with their male peers to delve into the latest shitty diet plans that added to their fatigue in the first place. Bolded for truth btw

The belief that male idols 'don't diet' did not enter into anything I said. It didn't even enter into my thoughts. It's apparent to anyone with eyes, not to mention the countless cavalier remarks about skipped meals and weight goals I've seen since 2009. Your counterarguments against notions of boys being invulnerable and girl groups being inferior or whatever are better directed elsewhere. To people that actually believe that crap.
 

SynthBpm

Member
Oct 30, 2017
141
Silver Spring
dieting and working out for a "fit" look, which is what most companies have boy groups do, is much closer to a healthy lifestyle than dieting for a "delicate" look which is what most companies/the industry in general want of female artists. this isn't a kpop specific thing, the global modeling industry and ballet for example have much the same issues.

as to heels, particularly highly athletic and explosive choreographies become much much much harder. Even in a Yannis Marshall choreo you'll never see the kind of moves that are in the Jopping choreo for example. heels just make the risk of ankle injury on certain things way too high.

another thing people sometimes don't think through about choreos is the difference between a dedicated dance performance and a kpop group in the expectation of what they have to deliver. An average choreo from a 1Million or Millennium choreographer is about a minute long, and there's no expectation of even appearing to sing. lung capacity and fatigue are real, and hitting Yannis Marshall levels of control over a full length song while having to sing is asking quite a lot more than any group should have to deliver.

skirts and dresses can also restrict movement or just make some moves be deemed inapropritate by the networks (even when they are wearing shorts underneath).

all that said, if the concepts were different i'd expect way more interesting choreos from girl groups. they definetly have the talent and capacity to hit all the things that boy groups are doing and more.
 

questionmark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
586
Everglow comeback schedule. 7 stars, hmm...

LFsn40i.jpg
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
i think this agender approach to dance choreography would be good for both genders...?


I'm wary of this thinking. Usually when people mean "agender", the result often ends up upholding the status quo, and looking more masculine than feminine (because one is respected while the other isn't). I don't think forcing all groups to aim to do the same kind of choreos is the answer here. It can be nice if they do, though, but I'd be much happier if boy groups were allowed to do feminine-looking choreos, and girl group were allowed to do masculine-looking choreos, if everybody could widen their fields of expression and just embody a choreo no matter how feminine, masculine or neutral/agender it looks, because it would be what fits the concept and song more.

If a women does a choreo in which she appears to sell her body (much like Hyolyn does), it does not bother me one bit if she happens to do so willingly, it's her body, her agenda. If a men does a choreo in which he appears to sell his body (much like Taemin does), it's the same. The problem comes down to agenda & consent here. Like in the case of Stellar, they sometimes had none, and that's why it makes it difficult to enjoy those choreos when you know they've been forced to do it by the company. Also, I'd like to add that a ton of male kpop group choreos are extremely sexual anyway, and intended to be that way. The way they express it is usually different than girl groups though, their moves look more active and assertive about it. But most of them are still selling their bodies here, just in a different way than girl groups are.


I was too busy googling why female idols fainting on stage seems to happen more often than with their male peers to delve into the latest shitty diet plans that added to their fatigue in the first place. Bolded for truth btw


Not to be that person, but since you bolded it for truth, maybe it seems to happen more often, because tabloids are more likely to make headlines with those, talk about those and bring it to the table when it happens to be a women fainting, because again, intense scrutiny, but that in truth, male idols do have tons of uneasiness and exhaustion moments on stage? Sure, it doesn't always look as dramatic as Krystal fainting, but it still happen nonetheless, and in amounts that I don't believe should be brushed off so easily in order to support what your initial argument implied.





dieting and working out for a "fit" look, which is what most companies have boy groups do, is much closer to a healthy lifestyle than dieting for a "delicate" look which is what most companies/the industry in general want of female artists. this isn't a kpop specific thing, the global modeling industry and ballet for example have much the same issues.


Yeah, you're right, those diet plans definitely look super healthy to me.





The Kpop industry doesn't, for the most part, put a lot of pressure on their male idols to be muscular, as looking thin is still the main goal here. If they happen to have abs and be ripped, then good, but more often than not, they don't build up a lot of mass because that just isn't the ideal of beauty there. So overall, dieting is still the main way to go for the majority of male idols.

Anyhow, my point still stands, male idols do perform high energetic choreos while undergoing strict and even dangerous diets, so the argument that girl groups can't perform such choreos because they'd be hindered by their diets anyway is a rather fallacious one to me. Especially when you see many girl group members performing those choreos in all their gloriousness without missing a beat.








Kpop diet culture is a problem that needs fixing, and overall tends to impact women a bit more than men, but this isn't the major factor here explaining why female Kpop idols do not perform masculine choreos. Gender expectations are that major factor, the rest is mostly just inconsequential background noise.
 
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spider

CLANG
On Break
Oct 23, 2017
973
Australia
I'm wary of this thinking. Usually when people mean "agender", the result often ends up upholding the status quo, and looking more masculine than feminine (because one is respected while the other isn't). I don't think forcing all groups to aim to do the same kind of choreos is the answer here. It can be nice if they do, though, but I'd be much happier if boy groups were allowed to do feminine-looking choreos, and girl group were allowed to do masculine-looking choreos, if everybody could widen their fields of expression and just embody a choreo no matter how feminine, masculine or neutral/agender it looks, because it would be what fits the concept and song more.

If a women does a choreo in which she appears to sell her body (much like Hyolyn does), it does not bother me one bit if she happens to do so willingly, it's her body, her agenda. If a men does a choreo in which he appears to sell his body (much like Taemin does), it's the same. The problem comes down to agenda & consent here. Like in the case of Stellar, they sometimes had none, and that's why it makes it difficult to enjoy those choreos when you know they've been forced to do it by the company. Also, I'd like to add that a ton of male kpop group choreos are extremely sexual anyway, and intended to be that way. The way they express it is usually different than girl groups though, their moves look more active and assertive about it. But most of them are still selling their bodies here, just in a different way than girl groups are.

yeah, i think i said it would be nice if girl groups can show off more than just delicate style and boys can be appreciated for gracefulness...... personally, i think i've said this? in the previous post? i certainly dont wanna put uphold status quo of pedestaling one gender norms over others.

although asian men are already under fire for being perceived as not manly enough outside of kpop sphere .............. :thinking emoji: so difficult > __ <

oh nothing wrong at all with sensual choreo, just not into it as a form of aesthetics since it seems absolutely awash and everywhere in terms of music videos (kpop and western pop and other pop, and just music videos in general) so it's something i kind of find a bit boring (personally) but it's fine if women (and men) are empowered and wants to do sensual contents. ofc it's less fine if it's imposed on them by companies :3

i do like taemin :> he's neat~

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hmmmmmmmm imma step away for now i think

probably kind of made some ripples that aren't very happies vibes in here and all of a sudden and all that, and im sorry if i did . __ . i didn't mean to make curlybrain talk here~ i'll just continue to fangirl kpop quietly :> thank you all for the discussions, you are all really nice o/
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,758


IZ*ONE's comeback has to happen soonish.
 

Coverly

Member
Oct 28, 2017
296
So in this soompi article it shows a picture of where people think wendy fell on that stage..
WOW. You can't really imagine 2.5 meters in that way until you see the picture. And in the dark no less.

Stairs Wendy was supposed to use. How did she not die is the real question.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,765
Delphine I originally said it's not only one thing at play. Heavily gendered performances (clothes included, this was about heels after all) are a factor, and actually I'd agree that they are the main factor, but it's a tangled web that feeds into itself and as such I don't think any of it is "inconsequential background noise" like you say. Intense dieting deserves it's share of that scrutiny. I recovered from bulimia in my teens, I know firsthand how taxing it is to perform certain tasks under the mist-like haze of dizziness and hunger. As such, I'm finding this thread turning into recklessly parading unhealthy diet plans to prove some kind of point deeply distasteful. I'd appreciate it if you don't quote me on this anymore, I have nothing more to say on the matter and I'm tired of my comments being picked apart to construct a viewpoint that I never held.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
In terms of male artists and extreme dieting, I was going to bring up Jimin and others, but Delphine got there first.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,454
I first discovered BoA when I was in a big J-pop phase and she featured on a song called Love Bug with m-flo. That was so long ago now that I think about it...
 

Neol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
426
Honestly I know BoA more for her Japanese discography than her Korean one.
I also think its better :p

Also a bit late but good work on the top 20 juicyb. Generally like all the songs that made it on the list so no complaints from me.
 

melichrous

Self-requested temporary ban
Member
Dec 9, 2017
85
Also veeeery LTTP, but good job on the rankings juicyb !
Pretty much every song I would have ranked is up there :)
I'm glad ITZY made it, they've smashed their way into my top 3 this year, and I'm eagerly waiting for a comeback and new tracks. Much the same with LOONA, actually cannot wait for their comback.
 

Shizuka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,100
What are the girl groups with comebacks for early February? Everglow, Gfriend and Loona? Am I missing anyone?
 

DJChuy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,232
Gonna try my luck at the London and Berlin ones I guess. When will the tickets by on sale?



Idk about your location, but your best bet is to register for the Army club. Getting BTS tickets is no damn joke.

I may go to Dallas, but I thought the crowd was ridiculous during the arena tour. I may be overwhelmed.
 
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