Kanto in G/S is the most ambitious & impressive post-game content in history - Thank you, Iwata-san

[MBS]

Imagine going back to Liberty City after completing GTAV main story. Not only going back to an empty LC. Going back to an entire different world with extra missions, harder objectives and new stuff to discover, at the same time all interconnected to Los Santos seamlessly while going back and forth between cities. Seems unreal? Well, it might not be for 2019 standards, but back in 1999 the feat was incredibly hard, that even Pokemon designers at the time were baffled by that impressive feat.​

Man responsible for all this? The late, great Satoru Iwata, who managed to develop a compression system for the extremely limited GB cartridge which not only compressed all data efficiently, but also managed to create an extra 1MB for the entire Kanto map to fit in alongside Johto (although some of its contents like a few routes were shortened/stripped). He also studied, decompiled and transferred the entire Red/Green battle code into the original JP Pokemon Stadium in ONE week, when nobody else knew what to do with the situation. He even provided feedback for Pokemon GO literally from his deathded, working tirelessly on his laptop until the end. That man loved the series, and i often wonder what direction the franchise would take on Switch, if he was still around. In many regards, Sword and Shield lack the vision, fun, the magic and all cool ideas, which made the classic titles so desirable among us.​

Back then that was a huge surpise, mainly because nothing was leaked to internet before release. And the remakes just built and upon that idea, and added many more features to Kanto/Johto, making HGSS the definite and peak Pokemon experience in franchise history, totally respecting the initial Gold/Silver vision. And man, sometimes i think about Iwata and be sad, sometimes i feel that Nintendo's philosophy of "fun" factor is going away each year. I ofter compare Iwata to Jobs in terms of how slowly Apple moved away from basic principles after his passing, slowly turning from trend-setter, to trend-following company.

Feel free to post about any other game with such ambitious and suprising post-launch suprise content.​

 

[AlexMeloche]

As big as it was, I never really considered Kanto as being "post-game". For me it was simply the second part of the game itself.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

It is indeed a great surprise for post game and one of the many reasons why G/S is my fav gen in the series.

I assume Sword and Shield naturally have something as ambitious and cool.

 

[808s & Villainy]

Praise Iwata

 

[shadowman16]

Not a Pokemon fan, but I've kept hold of my copy of Gold just so I can play it and see Kanto revisited one of these days, its a really cool addition to the game.

 

[Gol]

Blew my mind as a little kid. Was so surprised that the game was far from over.

 

[squall23]

I've always wished that we could have had his own take on how and why Mew and missingno exists even though we do know.

 

[FiXalaS]

For how short Johto is, post game better be that

 

[Ryuelli]

It's one of the biggest reasons why G/S is my favorite gen. It feels like it had the largest leap in content - double the badges, double the regions, 100 new Pokemon, introduction to breeding, and a fun day/night system.

 

[Kyoufu]

Absolute legend.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I've always wondered why they never tried to replicate that feel. Obviously a generation wouldn't contain ALL the previous regionS, but maybe at least the previous one.

 

[Glio]

No, it is not. It is not even authentic post-game. Pokémon Gold / Silver is not designed to make that something optional.

 

[Rosebud]

Yes, it was amazing.

Red: "..."

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I liked what Dark Souls 3 did more

 

[Deleted member 923]

Gold is my fav entry in the series. What a legend.

 

[808s & Villainy]

No, it is not. It is not even authentic post-game. Pokémon Gold / Silver is not designed to make that something optional.

Click to shrink...

How is it not optional? You can defeat the league and see the credits before going to Kanto...

 

[Pokémon]

I might be wrong but including Kanto in G/S was not Iwata's idea. While he definitely helped creating a compression tool so they can fit everything on one cart it was ultimately not his idea.

 

[MBS]

No, it is not. It is not even authentic post-game. Pokémon Gold / Silver is not designed to make that something optional.

Click to shrink...

You could go there after the Elite Four credits, being an completely optional quest after that. There were people who'd just stop after Johto Elite Four.

 

[Kouriozan]

Those remix were absolutely amazing, I loved G/S Kanto so much.

No, it is not. It is not even authentic post-game. Pokémon Gold / Silver is not designed to make that something optional.

Click to shrink...

Did the credit roll? if yes, it's post-game, however you personally define it.

 

[Fat4all]

check your map

 

[Deleted member 2791]

As impressive as it was to program this in the game, the content itself is actually kinda lame. It's a ghost town and you blast through it in like two hours since the only thing to do there is rebattling gym leaders. It was also not well balanced at all.

Emerald had much better post game.

 

[808s & Villainy]

I might be wrong but including Kanto in G/S was not Iwata's idea. While he definitely helped creating a compression tool so they can fit everything on one cart it was ultimately not his idea.

Click to shrink...

No one said it was his idea, but it was because of him they were able to include a stripped down version of the actual R/B/G Kanto and not this

 

[Cyanity]

Maybe it's nostalgia, but the mind-blow of realizing you could go back to Kanto was unparalleled back then. You had to be there lol.

 

[Glio]

You could go there after the Elite Four credits, being an completely optional quest after that. There were people who'd just stop after Johto Elite Four.

Click to shrink...

How is it not optional? You can defeat the league and see the credits before going to Kanto...

Click to shrink...

It is irrelevant that you can see the credits. Johto is not intended or designed to be played individually without Kanto. That's why I always say that the distinction between optional and post-game content in Pokémon is something entirely artificial. Like, you could put the credits in the second gym and that everything else was post-game.

 

[Sheev]

No, it is not. It is not even authentic post-game. Pokémon Gold / Silver is not designed to make that something optional.

Click to shrink...

It's after the credits. It's the post-game.

 

[AlexMeloche]

Did the credit roll? if yes, it's post-game, however you personally define it.

Click to shrink...

... I'm not saying it's not post-game. It just never occured to me it was considered post-game until I saw people talking about it that way on the Internet.

Also, haven't played the originals since l beat them in like 2001. I doubt I can remember when the credits occur.

EDIT : What. I'm pretty sure you quoted me, I had a notification. o.O

 

[MBS]

No one said it was his idea, but it was because of him they were able to include a stripped down version of the actual R/B/G Kanto and not this

Click to shrink...

This is the stripped-down SpeceWorld version, before Iwata's intervention right?

 

[Spinluck]

I 100% disagree with Nintendo's "fun" factor fading or whatever. Keep that misery to Pokemon threads. Nintendo games are still pretty fun generally speaking. Iwata was a beast though. This is a huge reason why the Johto games were my favs, and Soul Silver is my favorite Pokemon game ever. Point, blank, periodt.

 

[808s & Villainy]

It is irrelevant that you can see the credits.

Click to shrink...

According to who? You? Just because you say so?

This is the stripped-down SpeceWorld version, before Iwata's intervention right?

Click to shrink...

Yup

 

[Glio]

According to who? You? Just because you say so?


Yup

Click to shrink...

Ok i make it clear

IN MY OPINION, Silver / Gold credits are placed arbitrarily, and the definition of post-game in Pokémon is artificial and forced.

 

[RadicalDreamer]

Thank you, Iwata-san! I'm so inspired by his dedication to games and "Heart of a Gamer" makes me tear up every time.

Tbh Gold/Silver were mind blowing with just Johto, but getting to go back to Kanto was such a cascade of feelings and it's incredible that they packed so many memories & emotions into that tiny cartridge.

 

[808s & Villainy]

Ok i make it clear

IN MY OPINION, Silver / Gold credits are placed arbitrarily, and the definition of post-game in Pokémon is artificial and forced.

Click to shrink...

How is it arbitrary? It's after you get 8 badges and beat the league

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Any definition of "post-game" is arbitrary anyway, since the word itself is paradoxical (speaking purely technically there shouldn't be any "game" post-game, unless we're talking about a sequel)

 

[Tambini]

As impressive as it was to program this in the game, the content itself is actually kinda lame. It's a ghost town and you blast through it in like two hours since the only thing to do there is rebattling gym leaders. It was also not well balanced at all.

Emerald had much better post game.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I think people remember it better than it actually was, basically a boss rush..even so it's still pretty cool

 

[Lant_War]

Red Dead Redemption 2 rivals it

 

[Glio]

How is it arbitrary? It's after you get 8 badges and beat the league

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but it's in much less time and at a lower level than in any other league. The game is not designed to end with a Lance's Dragonite at level 50.

Johto is smaller and with fewer things precisely because of the existence of Kanto. It is also individually designed worse because it does not work without Kanto.

Ok, if you want I can reach this commitment: Gold / Silver has the best post-game of all and the worst main game of all.

 

[TacoSupreme]

I think "seeing the credits" doesn't work as an end-all-be-all decision of what makes something post-game. Nier Automata is a great example of a game where that metric flat out doesn't work, because you get a normal-speed full credit roll at the end of route A.

That said, I'd just like to throw my weight behind Red Dead Redemption 2's epilogue as being one of the best, if not the best, pieces of post-game content of all time.

 

[MBS]

Yeah I think people remember it better than it actually was, basically a boss rush..even so it's still pretty cool

Click to shrink...

People forget the most intense trainer battle in series history, Red. Both competitively and emotionally. It was a culmination of the spirit of the franchise up to that point.

 

[Cordy]

That Red battle on Mount Silver was soooo epic. Man so dope.

I gotta say it's either this or RDR2. Maybe this barely edging it out but RDR2's epilogue was unimaginable until you played it. It was so dope it could have been a 30 dollar dlc.

 

[djinnEXE]

For how short Johto is, post game better be that

Click to shrink...

Even then there wasn't much to do in Kanto either but I appreciate Iwata for the work he did

 

[808s & Villainy]

Yeah, but it's in much less time and at a lower level than in any other league. The game is not designed to end with a Lance's Dragonite at level 50.

Johto is smaller and with fewer things precisely because of the existence of Kanto. It is also individually designed worse because it does not work without Kanto.

Ok, if you want I can reach this commitment: Gold / Silver has the best post-game of all and the worst main game of all.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I could agree with that lol

 

[Mirage]

It was really neat back when I was a kid but overall I think the game suffers for having included it.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

In history? I agree that it's a great surprise, and much more intriguing postgame then what everything from XY on offers, but there a lot problems with the implementations of it and HGSS doesn't do enough to fix it.

It's a fantastic idea, but Gamefreak still hasn't gotten the execution for a multi-region game right. Would love to see them attemot again, but like I mentioned before modern Pokémon ganes have steered away from including impressive postgames.

 

[Tyaren]

Yeah, I still remember how amazed I was when I realized the entire Kanto map was in Gold/Silver.

Though I was also pretty amazed when it turned out that Tales of Symphonia let you explore an entire other world after I honestly thought I was close to the end of the game.

 

[Deleted member 2791]

People forget the most intense trainer battle in series history, Red. Both competitively and emotionally. It was a culmination of the spirit of the franchise up to that point.

Click to shrink...

And it was very badly balanced. The game throws at you a trainer with pokémons at levels 70 and above without ever giving you the means to train yours to that point.

Like, it was very cool as a concept but it's not very well executed.

 

[Naga]

I'm sure there's some debate to have about what is the best post-game, but it's definitely one of the best ones.
Pretty amazing back then (and yes it's post-game).

 

[Glimlocker]

It was mind-blowing back then - even I somehow understood that it was quite an accomplishment to squeeze Kanto into the game.

I was pretty disappointed with how little there was to do, but it was still fun to battle some folks again.

Also, I have never noticed that Kanto is smaller. It always felt just as full-featured to me as the first games.

 

[Anth0ny]

Imagine going back to New Austin after finishing RDR2 👀

Gold and Silver paved the way. Thank you Iwata.

 

[King Alamat]

Ok i make it clear

IN MY OPINION, Silver / Gold credits are placed arbitrarily, and the definition of post-game in Pokémon is artificial and forced.

Click to shrink...

They're placed exactly where the credits are in every other Pokemon game, after you beat the Elite 4.

 

[show me your skeleton]

It is indeed a great surprise for post game and one of the many reasons why G/S is my fav gen in the series.

I assume Sword and Shield naturally have something as ambitious and cool.

Click to shrink...

😬