Its just absurd to me that someone could sit there with a straight face and say that trying to make an effort to be more sensitive to the issue is more offensive than the issue itself.
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Kendrick Lamar calls out white fan for rapping n-word onstage with him at concert [Read OP]
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Its just absurd to me that someone could sit there with a straight face and say that trying to make an effort to be more sensitive to the issue is more offensive than the issue itself.
Of course I understand why white people should not use the word in normal conversation. But it is generally recognized that using a word in normal conversation, in your own words expressing your own thoughts, beliefs, perspective, etc, is very different than using a word in the context of a quotation. Is that rule suspended with regards to the n-word?
I haven't seen anything regarding why using the word in the context of a quotation is obviously bad. If I missed it, then my bad, but I've pretty much only seen variations on "don't say it ever in any circumstances".
Calling basic decency and common sense Orwellian is a new low. Bravo.
Here's one of the main reasons White People can't say the N Word
*Drumroll*
....
It's because they already say it... You already say it with your friends you're trying to impress. You say it at home. You say it while your gaming online. You say it when you're uncle's goes on his tirades.....
We literally can't stop you from saying Nigga... You can say whenever you want... As loud as you want....
You know why you don't?
Consequences. You're literally scared of the consequences.
You're scared of being called a racist. You're scared of other white people pulling away from you because they don't want that stigma. You're scared of confrontation that would happen 95% of the time in front of Black People.
So you're literally arguing for the ability to say a slur that denegrated our people for centuries without repercussions. You want to be able to say Nigga and not have any of the above be applied to you. You want our entire social structure to bend over backwards to cater to your fragile ass ego because of your inflated sense of self importance.
That's why you can't say nigga.
I mean if they're arguing that they should be able to use the word then clearly they don't....
Because it's a quote or lyric doesn't mean you can amend what you're saying.
The n-word is a reclamation of a race-based slur. I'd rather not insert my own white-man-friendly option ontop of it, which to my mind would undo the reclamation of the slur.
The explanation is that the word was and is a slur used against them by white people, and the act of reclaiming it necessitates disarming its utility as a slur, which means calling out white people using it. White people don't need to pretend it doesn't exist, they just need to be mindful that it isn't a word they have the social contract necessary to say it. It's actually not that alien a concept if you think about how people address others depending on certain preexisting relationships; I call my girlfriend "honey" but I wouldn't call my professor that. To simplify it further, the explanation is that when white people say the word, it is inexorably a slur thanks to the inescapable historical context of its usage.
The insistence that every argument on every subject be justified and laid out for the sake of debate is one that I sympathize with, but it is a belief that simply does not apply in every situation. People's lived experiences, in particular the lived experiences of marginalized peoples, matter a lot, and frankly there are going to be areas related to life experience that are unknowable to the people who don't also share that life experience. Just the day-to-day existence of being black, or trans, or gay, or a woman, or a Muslism, etc. is something that deserves consideration and respect, and is going to entail having access to knowledge gained from that day-to-day existence that a straight white guy, for example, will simply never truly understand. So when a topic related to those lived experiences comes into play, like the usage of a slur like the n-word in a non-reclaimed context, trying to argue over it without considering the lived experience of the people at play is not only disrespectful, it's incorrect. A person of color saying "Don't say the n-word" actually is all the explanation they need to give, because there is no burden for them to explain their lived experience with that word for people out of the know; the context of them being black and making the request should really be enough. Anyone willing to go that extra mile and go into greater detail is doing you and everyone else a courtesy, honestly.
To use an analogy, if you entered a circle of friends where one of them was referred to by a nickname, and they asked you to call you by that nickname, I'd doubt you'd go to the mat over where/how/why they get a nickname and you don't, why you should get one, go over hypotheticals of when you could or should use their real name, etc. You'd probably just accept it and say "Okay."
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Mmm, I don't think that makes a whole lot of sense, but I'm not black so ymmv.
That you think black people have the power to institute a dystopian totalitarian society is laughable - and that is what you're saying when you use the term 'Orwellian'. Say the word if you want or don't. Nobody can stop you. But stop acting like black people have the ability to ruin your fucking life by asking you not to say nigger, because it makes you sound really fucking stupid.
arguing for the ability to do something, and not doing it in reality for the sake of strangers's comfort means they clearly do
"lashing out" Hilarious. No one is lashing out, I asked you a question and you're not fooling anyone with this "it was just a joke guys." nonsense.
I think it's ridiculous as well but I'd also respect someone's wishes if they asked me not to do it and I wanted to hang out with them. Also, seems Nappuccino is a white dude.
I mean, you do you, but I think most people will get away with a harmless replacement. As long as the replacement isn't just a sneaky way to try and say the n-word with plausible deniability.
Broad or not,
I'm alot more right than wrong in this case. And that's sad.
You'd think I'd give a shit if I was mostly wrong in that statement? That's the preferred option.
If you want to assume people care about your context when using the word, don't be suprised if people assume you are a racist as well.
Fuck your brush.
That makes zero sense. If you're arguing for the right to say a word you know offends a group a people, you do not have respect for said group of people....
Only if you ignore the context that the people asking for this are themselves black.
Of course you can. But it's not at all obvious to me why one should. What is the point of pretending that is not the word in the song?
I know this poster is banned but this lazy and entitled attitude of demanding other people to educate you really fucking irks me.
You're on the internet. Educate yourself and stop putting the onus on the people who already have to deal with shit like this all the time.
Sorry, I forgot I no longer used my picture as my avatar. I'm a white guy trying to be conscious of how my use or dis-use of a word impacts others.
except you said it yourself that in reality they exercise restraint, that means in reality, not in discussion, that they actually do have respect for others's comfort
Plenty of people have explained it. Just stop. Its not the same thing. Its not okay to do. Its not hard to understand why.
Damn... that must have been awkward. Kendrick a balanced guy though. He seemed to have a really cool headed response.
You're not pretending it doesn't exist in the song, you're just keeping the word out of your mouth cause that's what we're supposed to do. That's all.
The idea is Orwellian, not the consequences. Obviously white people are not being disappeared for using the n-word.
When a generation of white women regularly hear that word used without qualification in music that is specifically marketed to them as a demographic - it's understandable. It's still wrong. But I'm sympathetic to the ignorance.
It's fine no worries. If you feel more comfortable just skipping then that's good you do that, but I wouldn't side-eye anyone who uses a harmless replacement word.
They exercise restraint because they know they'd be labelled a racist or punched in the mouth for it, not because they actually respect the other person.
Sometimes there's no debate to be had.
If that bothers you... There's a whole forum worth of stuff to engage with.
Or I guess you can show your ass here and spare the rest of us the trouble of dealing with you in the future.
Your call.
If that bothers you... There's a whole forum worth of stuff to engage with.
Or I guess you can show your ass here and spare the rest of us the trouble of dealing with you in the future.
Your call.
Not pretending it doesn't exist, just not saying it
Because when it is used by white people, it is inexorably a slur thanks to the inescapable history behind its usage. In order for it to be reclaimed by black people, that history/usage of the word needs to be put out of use, which means white people shouldn't say it.
I was always curious how black folk felt when you had certain individuals having no problem with white folk saying the nword and some like Travis Scott even kinda encourage it at concerts and want everyone to sing song every word. And no I'm not trying to justify it or say "hey but these people are ok with white people saying it". Just a general thing I've noticed.
That simple.
Thank you for this, yes.
I really hope a lot of you are using this as a lesson about yourselves.
I'd say it's respectful and considerate not to say it. And it's not pretending that it's not in the song, it's acknowledging the baggage of the word. Even if you would have no ill intent and there's not a racist bone in your body, I think it shows respect and understanding to skip/replace it when you are not black.
If Kendrick had given her permission to say it, do you think people still would have taken issue with it?
So it's not a problem saying that all white people that don't use the n-word, are only doing it because they are scared of the consequences but really want to say it anyways? None of them could possibly not say it because they are being respectful?
Who said I want to us the n-word? Fuck my brush?
If what the top comment on reddit is true then that seems weird but either way it won't change anything One side will say no one say it, other will say only black people should, and another will say it couldn't matter if it is a quote from a song. People are gonna do what they want anyways.
Do you find the majority of those banned for bad faith to actually have salient points?
That simple.
What if you were a white actor in Django?
Does never mean never? This chart is missing some things.
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