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RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,808
Is Brotha is OK to say? That's my go to since it's the same number of syllables, fits the rhyme scheme, and has a similar connotation but knowing the black community uses brotha regularly I've never been sure if that was OK or not. I like to sing along but want to make sure I'm doing it in an acceptable way.
 

MrLuchador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,486
The Internet
I do think there's a large group of young white people growing up with rap music that think this word is the norm now. I've had to explain to kids I teach the context behind the word here in the UK as they simply don't understand it's history. They just think it's a part of the song, and part of a the rap culture to call each other it as 'a term of friendship'. These are 11-14 year olds. I want to believe that they're not all little racists in the making and that they're just singing a song without realising what they're saying believing it's part of rap culture, rather than the racist/historical slavery connection.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Here's what I'm getting:

Even though the song has 14 occurrences of the offensive word in it, as a white Kendrick Lamar fan, you should: A.) Never speak aloud the word in the song, even if you're singing along with it and B.) Assume that you'll be expected to self-censor the word if Kendrick Lamar himself invites you up on stage to sing his song with him.

Because it is now, and always will be, incumbent upon a white person to assume that they will never have license to use that word in any social situation or setting.

That's how this is, correct?

Yeah

I think it's odd how you portray it as such a burden though, not being able to use a word that white people used as a slur.

"It happens 14 times! That's more than 13! How can I be expected to restrain myself a dozen plus two times?! Such is my lot in life."
 

FullMetalx

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
811
Don't say the word. If you make it a point to never say it, it won't accidentally slip out.

My wife has never said it, even though we listen to rap all the time.

Of course, I'll never say the word casually. I'm just saying that in a song where the word is used repeatedly, and you're in a concert like setting (hyped/fucked up/not thinking clearly), does it deserve the schooling/embarrassment on stage?
 

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
Damn, did nobody tell this kid the secret karaoke technique of replacing the n-word with brother or ninja?

Of course, I'll never say the word casually. I'm just saying that in a song where the word is used repeatedly, and you're in a concert like setting (hyped/fucked up/not thinking clearly), does it deserve the schooling/embarrassment on stage?

Probably not, but that's not the world we live in.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,000
I like to tell white people that if Eminem didn't have to say the nigga/nigger to have a successful rap career, they don't have to say it either.

Practice some self restraint.
xbEOLLC.gif
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,929
Yeah

I think it's odd how you portray it as such a burden though, not being able to use a word that white people used as a slur.

"It happens 14 times! That's more than 13! How can I be expected to restrain myself a dozen plus two times?! Such is my lot in life."

You're insincerely conflating my point.

I'm making it as clear as possible and pointing out that regardless of the "burden" it must be self-censored by white people who wish to be apart of the moment.
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,856
So I don't actually use the word, but I still sing along to rap songs I really like, same as every other genre. I usually substitute the word with ninja because I heard that in a song once and it usually works well without breaking up the flow. My friends IRL have always been cool with it, but I'm genuinely curious for other opinions?

I only ask because I glanced at the thread and saw some posts saying white people should just not sing along to rap at all, so I'm wondering how widespread that view is and if I'd still be upsetting anyone by using a substitute.

I think Kendrick handled the situation well and the while the girl shouldn't have said it, at least she didn't throw a fit when called out.
 

Dr. Dre's Dr.

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
976
Here is a video of the guy who was on stage before her. Also white. Singing the same song. Didn't say it.

https://twitter.com/juliafreeman98/status/998447068938227712?s=19

As was stated multiple times already, Kendrick does this sometimes at his concert for this song in particular. He doesn't look for white people to trick them into saying it. He will bring up anybody who wants to come up and try to perform the song with him. I think he handled this so incredibly well. If you watch the video, he's sort of joking with her and the crowd. He smiles and hugs her at the end and says "she almost had it."
JFC that dude was hype as hell. He rocked it. Usually it ends in disaster. Someone (likely) never having been in front and performing in front of 10s of thousands of people and he nailed it.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Of course, I'll never say the word casually. I'm just saying that in a song where the word is used repeatedly, and you're in a concert like setting (hyped/fucked up/not thinking clearly), does it deserve the schooling/embarrassment on stage?

Yeah

Music lyrics are not an excuse

You think if someone rewrote Mein Kampf to a beat that shit would be acceptable to say?
 

Horned Reaper

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,560
I do think there's a large group of young white people growing up with rap music that think this word is the norm now. I've had to explain to kids I teach the context behind the word here in the UK as they simply don't understand it's history. They just think it's a part of the song, and part of a the rap culture to call each other it as 'a term of friendship'. These are 11-14 year olds. I want to believe that they're not all little racists in the making and that they're just singing a song without realising what they're saying believing it's part of rap culture, rather than the racist/historical slavery connection.
I think like many words its meaning begins to change exactly because of rap, which to me is a good thing. Censoring the word just empowers it. I belief cakewalk stems from a very dark origin as well, but because people seem to have forgotten, noone cares about its use in daily conversation anymore.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,066
Yeah of course white people (For the record that includes me) shouldn't use the word in pretty much any context, but in this case I think everything was handled appropriately in my opinion. She made a mistake and got caught up in the moment, but the artist let her her apologize and didn't try to make a scene about it then from what I am understanding the show went on without any further issues.



I don't blame the girl one bit and I highly doubt the artist set her up like some people are saying. The artist from what I understand does this all the time with fans of all races so it probably didn't even cross his mind. It was just an unfortunate mistake that was immediately handled by everyone involved. I only wish that we could get more situations like this solved this quickly and peacefully.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Here's what I'm getting:

Even though the song has 14 occurrences of the offensive word in it, as a white Kendrick Lamar fan, you should: A.) Never speak aloud the word in the song, even if you're singing along with it and B.) Assume that you'll be expected to self-censor the word if Kendrick Lamar himself invites you up on stage to sing his song with him.

Because it is now, and always will be, incumbent upon a white person to assume that they will never have license to use that word in any social situation or setting.

That's how this is, correct?
I'd be surprised if most people aren't aware that many will take offense on the word when not used by a black person. So yes, when you know you might offend people you shouldn't maybe do it. I think not causing unnecessary offense is a worthy goal no matter the subject. Especially as I don't think there are any good reasons for people to use the word in this context. The word repeated by the girl in the video isn't of any importance. And in the cases that someone wasn't aware that people think it ain't cool to say it, then it would be advisable to learn from it like the girl in the video hopefully did. And I would assume she took it to heart, as hearing it straight from someone you admire will probably have an impact.

And while there are some black rappers who think it's fine, it's still better not to. Since it's not about insulting your favorite rapper but other people who do take offense with the word. "But this other guy said it's ok, so I don't need to care how others feel".
 
Last edited:

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,236
User Banned (1 Week): Repeatedly insisting that others educate him, yet dismissing all responses.
And, I already told you in the other thread, fuck your understanding:

So telling me I shouldn't try to understand / learn something because I'm not part of that culture is just cutting me off from understanding a different perspective. We as a society need to strive for the multi-culturism scenario that the crayon box philosophy / policy advances and one of the ways to that is taking in as many perspectives as possible in my opinion.

Also why are you swearing / yelling at me in your posts?
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
You're insincerely conflating my point.

I'm making it as clear as possible and pointing out that regardless of the "burden" it must be self-censored by white people who wish to be apart of the moment.

You making a point to emphasize that it occurs 14 times in a song wasn't an accident

Neither was emphasizing "even if you're singing along," even thought that is a completely immaterial distinction

But yeah, like I said earlier, what you said was correct
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,405
Phoenix
Yeah of course white people (For the record that includes me) shouldn't use the word in pretty much any context, but in this case I think everything was handled appropriately in my opinion. She made a mistake and got caught up in the moment, but the artist let her her apologize and didn't try to make a scene about it then from what I am understanding the show went on without any further issues.



I don't blame the girl one bit and I highly doubt the artist set her up like some people are saying. The artist from what I understand does this all the time with fans of all races so it probably didn't even cross his mind. It was just an unfortunate mistake that was immediately handled by everyone involved. I only wish that we could get more situations like this solved this quickly and peacefully.
I don't think it was a setup either. I mean let's say it was me that was called up, I wouldn't have said the word and then what?! There can't be an assumption that a White person WAS going to say the word.

It's far more likely he has just given this a lot of thought and was prepared for it if it happened, which it did.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
Of course, I'll never say the word casually. I'm just saying that in a song where the word is used repeatedly, and you're in a concert like setting (hyped/fucked up/not thinking clearly), does it deserve the schooling/embarrassment on stage?

I think its probably the best place to reach a large audience. He wasn't encouraging anyone to harass her just said "hey, leave that word out ok?" seems fine. People act like its self evident that inviting someone on stage to sing along that they should censor that word of the song but I don't think its really that clear in everyones mind. Now at least everyone at the show (and on twitter) knows Kendrick's feelings on it.
 

Pagoto93

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
776
Good on him. He even let her sing along afterwards. I doubt she meant any offence by saying it but he still has every right to ask her to stop.
 

Enzom21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,989
I think like many words its meaning begins to change exactly because of rap, which to me is a good thing. Censoring the word just empowers it. I belief cakewalk stems from a very dark origin as well, but because people seem to have forgotten, noone cares about its use in daily conversation anymore.
"Nigger" has not changed at all and not allowing non-black people to use it free of consequence isn't giving it any additional power.
Racists said that shit long before we started using "nigga" and they will still say it long after we stop.
Black people not wanting non-black folks to say it isn't what's keeping it alive. foh.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,066
I don't think it was a setup either. I mean let's say it was me that was called up, I wouldn't have said the word and then what?! There can't be an assumption that a White person WAS going to say the word.

It's far more likely he has just given this a lot of thought and was prepared for it if it happened, which it did.

Yeah that was my thought as well.


People saying it was planned are also assuming that the random white person he chose would automatically say it which not everyone would have which would make it a flip of the coin and therefore a bad setup because it was by no means guaranteed to work. Unless those same people are gonna try and say that she was planted in which case their tinfoil hats are on too tight lol


The second part of what you said is much more likely. The guy does this all the time and has way too many intelligent people around him to bring people on stage without having some kind of plan for an event where a audience member says or does something stupid or offensive like this. I mean they aren't gonna invite people on stage at random without a plan especially when those people could possibly be under the influence of any number of drugs or substances. I mean it IS a concert after all lol
 

Illest1

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
675
"Oh, I'm sorry. Did I do it? I'm so sorry… I'm used to singing it like you wrote it."

Love me some KDot, but yeah.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
So telling me I shouldn't try to understand / learn something because I'm not part of that culture is just cutting me off from understanding a different perspective. We as a society need to strive for the multi-culturism scenario that the crayon box philosophy / policy advances and one of the ways to that is taking in as many perspectives as possible in my opinion.

Assuming that you are entitled or obliged insight into a marginalized culture or group simply because you're curious is a part of privilege. If nobody within that marginalized culture or group wants to put in the effort to teach you or feels that you need to know anything beyond "here's what you do/don't say," then that's their decision to make, not yours. Believe it or not, life experience actually matters for a lot, and there are some things tied into this that you will never be able to understand at that level, so sometimes the best thing to do is listen to what the people of that marginalized culture or group tell you and do that. "Don't say the n-word," "Don't deadname," etc. (basically be empathetic and treat them like people), that is the general level of knowledge that you need to know to interact with them, anything else is a courtesy and is superseded by the right of the particular marginalized culture or group in question to tell you to respect their decision to not be your personal tutor and accept that you will never have a true understanding of their life experiences.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
It is simple, if you are not black, don't say it. It only becomes "difficult" when certain folks get pressed because black people are telling them they can't say a slur free of consequence.
There is no discussion to be had here.

Why was a white person called on stage to sing a song with a word that they can't say in it? That's the discussion to be had.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
I definitely don't think white people should be allowed to say the n word. But I do want to say that it's just a weird thing that we have this word that you are allowed to say or not say based on your skin. Such a thing would never be true in a post-racial society.... but of course, this isn't one.
 

Dinokill3.7

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
83
To me, white people saying nigga is a form of black culture appropriation! Simple as that.

"Ohh black people took the word nigga and turned it around! Now I can say it because is part of their culture"

As a half black guy(frathernal family from Trinidad and Tobago) I cringe myself to dead when I see two white people calling each other nigga.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,002
So telling me I shouldn't try to understand / learn something because I'm not part of that culture is just cutting me off from understanding a different perspective. We as a society need to strive for the multi-culturism scenario that the crayon box philosophy / policy advances and one of the ways to that is taking in as many perspectives as possible in my opinion.

Also why are you swearing / yelling at me in your posts?

Listen here, cut all the pie-in-the-sky, we all need to hold hands and sing kumbaya bullshit. Racism isn't going to end because white people get to say the N-word. And, there is long historical context as to how and why we still use the word. I even alluded to some of it in the older thread response to you. Now, I'm too tired right now to write up a long statement that delves into the usage and meaning of the word in the community and why it still persists. And, why despite our continued usage of it we are not accepting of others outside our community of using it. There's also the simple fact that many of us are tired of justifying these basic fucking things concerning our existence. We don't want to have a discussion about "nigger/nigga" every single damn day. Do you think we run around calling each other nigga 24/7? Still, I could give you a nice real long and in-depth explanation as to it all. But, the thing is it still wouldn't matter because A) you still probably wouldn't get it and demand for more reasoning and help understanding and B) you're not black.

The second part is the real heart of the matter and not something that I or anyone can help you with. How can we describe to you the experience of being a nigger in the West? Of the daily microaggressions, the relentless onslaught of oppression, the persistent question of "not knowing" with regards to every interaction with a non-black person, the daily news cycle that beams the latest tragedy straight to our home, the appropriation without equalization, without just due, and on and on. You will NEVER fully get it, because you're not a nigga. What you can do is understand that you cannot possibly understand, to recognize your own limits. And, to then rely on others in the community when they tell you something is not okay.

You really don't need to understand any of it, you just need to comply with the one damn thing we tell everyone not to do. DON'T. SAY. THE. N-WORD. Why this needs a 2,500 word preface is beyond frustrating.

EDIT:
I'll tell you what though, when I have some free time off of work, I may just give you the long response you're looking for. Then we'll see if that suffices.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,929
At first I didn't understand because of the artistic/musical nature of it; the in-the-moment nature of it, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I think a white person who respects the music, the artist, the community, the movement, and/or just even the moment, who self-censors themselves on-the-spot, actually demonstrates true respect for it all. It's an example of wanting to be apart of it all and supporting the cause by observing the unwritten laws and embracing the emotionally sensitive nature of it.

That's cool with me.

Lamar wasn't "testing" her. He was probably hoping she would have taken it upon herself not to say it so they could just enjoy the moment together out of mutual respect - for him inviting her on stage regardless of her being white and for her being conscious about omitting the word.

He called her on it. She apologized and hopefully understands now.

I think they're all good now. I hope.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Did....you just compared Lamar to Hitler?

My point is that music isn't an excuse for people to say things they aren't allowed to say

Kendrick used words that white people aren't allowed to say, and I used a hyperbolic analogy of a case where there are words that nobody should say, to make that point
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
That is not at all the discussion to be had. He calls people on stage all the time, there's legit no problem with it at all.

So the other white people he's called on stage didn't say the n-word before, has he called other white people on stage (I'm sure he has before but I don't know)? Did they just fill in with another word or just skip over it if so?

That discussion isn't needed.

You might feel that way but others don't. I'm just curious about the context around it all.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,405
Phoenix
Yeah that was my thought as well.


People saying it was planned are also assuming that the random white person he chose would automatically say it which not everyone would have which would make it a flip of the coin and therefore a bad setup because it was by no means guaranteed to work. Unless those same people are gonna try and say that she was planted in which case their tinfoil hats are on too tight lol


The second part of what you said is much more likely. The guy does this all the time and has way too many intelligent people around him to bring people on stage without having some kind of plan for an event where a audience member says or does something stupid or offensive like this. I mean they aren't gonna invite people on stage at random without a plan especially when those people could possibly be under the influence of any number of drugs or substances. I mean it IS a concert after all lol
It does go to show you though how many people either do say the word or hear others, when their conclusion is "any White person would have said the word under that circumstance". Nah. I would have just blanked it.
 

mugwhump

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,288
Well, they both handled that pretty well. With that said, she shouldn't have said it. And if Lamar plans to keep inviting non-black people up to sing, he should probably quickly mention how they should handle the word, because I would expect plenty of fans singing along to have trouble just silencing themselves for one word and continuing on gracefully if they haven't been told what to do.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
At first I didn't understand because of the artistic/musical nature of it; the in-the-moment nature of it, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I think a white person who respects the music, the artist, the community, the movement, and/or just even the moment, who self-censors themselves on-the-spot, actually demonstrates true respect for it all. It's an example of wanting to be apart of it all and supporting the cause by observing the unwritten laws and embracing the emotionally sensitive nature of it.

That's cool with me.

Lamar wasn't "testing" her. He was probably hoping she would have taken it upon herself not to say it so they could just enjoy the moment together out of mutual respect - for him inviting her on stage regardless of her being white and for her being conscious about omitting the word.

He called her on it. She apologized and hopefully understands now.

I think they're all good now. I hope.

Yeah that's a pretty accurate summation I'd say
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,066
Here is a video of the guy who was on stage before her. Also white. Singing the same song. Didn't say it.

https://twitter.com/juliafreeman98/status/998447068938227712?s=19

As was stated multiple times already, Kendrick does this sometimes at his concert for this song in particular. He doesn't look for white people to trick them into saying it. He will bring up anybody who wants to come up and try to perform the song with him. I think he handled this so incredibly well. If you watch the video, he's sort of joking with her and the crowd. He smiles and hugs her at the end and says "she almost had it."

Jesus CHRIST this is AMAZING.


The guy NAILED it. The closest thing to this for me personally would be me at a concert for one of the classic rock bands I love. But i would freeze up immediately. I could barely make presentations in school in front of my class let alone sing a song on stage, but this guy went AFTER it.
 
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