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stone616

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,429
I think the best way to avoid this would be for everyone, black people included, to stop using that word, especially in music.

Because yeah, when you sing along to a song you like, you don't always think about the lyrics and just say them in rythm. So the issue will happen over and over again.
I don't agree with the word but what you're suggesting is beyond absurd. That black people should stop saying a word because of white people who don't want anything off limits to them will say it is ridiculous.

There are white people who like I've said before can't conceive living in a world where anything is off limits to them. The privilege they get due to their own skin color is so ingrained in them that they have to be able to justify saying a word that is abhorrent for them to say. When you're black there is plenty of stuff off limits to you simply because of the color of your skin. Them not saying that word is just a sliver of what someone else with a different skin color goes through when they do normal things and get harassed for doing those things.

Content matters and using inappropriate language and blaming it on someone else simply because you want to do it too deep down is still inappropriate. We all know right from wrong. I have zero desire to go around saying hateful words to others and using them as excuses to justify saying it. The rule is it's always wrong for them to say that. It's not that hard to just not say it if you're white.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,397
User Warned: Downplaying the historical context for reclaimed language
Well come now, why would he invite her to sing the song with him if she's not allowed to use some of the words.

Even substituting something else on the fly seems dangerous here. Maybe he shouldn't be putting those words in his songs if his music isn't meant strictly for black people.

Seems like he was just wanting to make a point and I guess that's fine but feel kind of bad for the fan.
 

Dehnus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,900
Oh dear....

She's lucky she isn't in the UK as she would probably end up doing jail time for inciting hatred/hate speech.
Now, that's the other extreme. She apologized, she didn't realize her mistake and she is a fan of his. She was shamed on stage in front of thousands of people, don't you think she learned her lesson? A lesson she probably won't forget for ages.

I think it's far more effective to do this, than to start getting lawmakers involved and thus adding fuel to the flamethrows of the Alt Light, who use it to gain more members into the Alt Reich.
 

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,495
Problem to me as a white guy reading these threads is that every single time there is a person or two in these threads who calls my race something along the lines of "stupid white people".

Every. Single. Time.

That's offensive.

I don't personally care in the sense that it doesn't hurt my poor feelings etc and frankly I understand it. You're frustrated and you feel like if stupid white people can say nigga then you can sure as shit call them stupid white people. It has its justification for sure.

I don't know what my point is. I guess I'm just saying two wrongs don't make a right. So try and take the higher road.

Edit: to be clear I don't personally say that word anyway. It's obviously at the least disrespectful.

You can't just go around talking about "offensive to my white race". You just can't. There's a world of difference.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,291
"I can't say nigga....

I am oppressed people. This is segregation."

↑↑↑↑

This is literally why you psychos can't say it. You don't have the faintest idea what it means. It's just cool points for you.
 

BurntFoot

Banned
Apr 10, 2018
2,204
Love this. Non-black folks can't be getting away with this anymore.

If you ain't black don't say it.
 

Gordon Shumway

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,658
Melmac
Not to point out the obvious but it sounds like a racial slur that black people take offense to.
Oh! I was literally talking about the word period......
"I can't say nigga....

I am oppressed people. This is segregation."

↑↑↑↑

This is literally why you psychos can't say it. You don't have the faintest idea what it means. It's just cool points for you.
tumblr_inline_mr0qrxe65z1qz4rgp.gif
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
You can't just go around talking about "offensive to my white race". You just can't. There's a world of difference.
There being a difference doesn't make it ok though, nor did he say it's ok for him to use the n-word because he got called a dumb white person or whatever. Also that poster never mentioned "my white race".

There also should be a difference between someone going notallwhitepeople when someome generalizes white people in a thread about, say a white cop harming PoC and a thread like this one.
 

Croash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
518
I am wondering: Are similarly sounding substitute words acceptable, such as "mega", or would that simply warrant the same reactions given that it'll surely be impossible to see a difference in such a context?

Just not certain if, if there actually is a choice between omitting and changing the word, then changing should lead to a quite different word.

All of these similar stories/threads are quite important and it's great to have more examples on how things can be handled very well by all parties. I don't listen to songs myself so I've never been in a situation like this, but my sister told me of how she learned to stop using the word after reading such stories, so clearly education like this works and it's a good thing she's now part of those spreading the word.

People in this thread who post about how it makes no sense, please take a few minutes to consider how it can negatively affect more people, and with more impact, than you.

Edit: Did we ever repeat something like this 2016 GAF thread on ERA? https://www./threads/nigga-and-you-a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-n-word.1281323/
That was a gem of a thread.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,293
Nottingham, UK
It's amazing how this conversation always goes the same way, I'm hoping it's new posters to the conversation who are hopefully learning something today, not the same ones coming back to complain about not being able to say a word that isn't for you.

You can say the word, just expect repercussions and judgement. Rightly so
 

Gordon Shumway

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,658
Melmac
The Blacks can't keep getting away with this!
It's funny, really. I've got white friends I came up with, and they somehow managed to sing every song in the car without dropping one nigga. It's not like I was looking for it lol..I'm sure they said it when I wasn't around. They never seemed oppressed or anything..

It just wasn't an issue ever..which makes this conversation hilarious every time it comes up here or in the last place
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Problem to me as a white guy reading these threads is that every single time there is a person or two in these threads who calls my race something along the lines of "stupid white people".

Every. Single. Time.

That's offensive.

I don't personally care in the sense that it doesn't hurt my poor feelings etc and frankly I understand it. You're frustrated and you feel like if stupid white people can say nigga then you can sure as shit call them stupid white people. It has its justification for sure.

I don't know what my point is. I guess I'm just saying two wrongs don't make a right. So try and take the higher road.

Edit: to be clear I don't personally say that word anyway. It's obviously at the least disrespectful.
I mean, I get what you mean. It steps on my toes to see shit like "Men are idiots" too.

But the thing is (y)our grievances are not at all comparable to what marginalized people suffer.

A hamfisted analogy would be... Let's say X and Y are in a romantic relationship, and Y is abusive towards X. X has enough of this and tells Y to "get the fuck out of my house and never come back". Y complains that X didn't say "please go away" and used swear words instead.

I feel you, it sucks to be generalized that way. But understand where those generalizations come from- a society and culture that's been entrenched in racism for CENTURIES.

I'm not saying that you can't feel bummed out about it. But what you need to do to get rid of such sentiments (which generally don't actually refer to the every single person in a demographic) is to eradicate the racism, sexism etc. that makes people utter such statements in the first place.

Listen to oppressed people, fight against bigotry, and it will hopefully go away someday. There are more important fights to fight. (And yes, we can fight against several things at once, but the way we keep hanging on statements of exasperation and anger by marginalized folk doesn't help shit and actively distracts from possibly more important conversations.)
 

Ogre

Member
Mar 26, 2018
435
Okay, I got it, fellow white folk. There are probably three situations where we can say it, so get excited, I guess:

1.) You are in a movie/play where racism is directly addressed/part of the context and you are on set/stage/rehearsal/practice

2.) you are an author/grad student writing some shit about racism/history/etc and you gotta quote your own shit. Tho feel free to skip it when orally reciting it.

3.) you are a part of a trial and you gotta quote some racist asshole cause it's a legal matter.

A couple situations where it's definitely not acceptable:

1.) karaoke.
2.) a karaoke duet with the person who wrote the song you are also karaoking.
 
Oct 29, 2017
12,715
I agree with Kendrick. If you want to rap along and you are not black, DON'T say the N-word. You skip over it.

Props to Kendrick for his reaction and how he handled it. He educated and explained to the lady what to do.
I love hip hop. But the n-word isn't cool to use if you're black. It's hate speech through and through. Just imagine Kendrick doing that in the same area 50 years ago?
 

bshock

Self-requested permanent ban
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
1,394
This shit is a touchy subject. I keep writing up a long winded opinion but end up deleting it because I just don't know what is considered offensive or not to strangers on the internet.

When I was younger, I listened to rap and would sing a long to the lyrics, including the n word. I've been in the company of black friends while doing so and it wasn't seen as offensive. However, it is a powerful word and can be disrespectful or hateful towards a race of people. It's very personal and differs from person to person but I've learned today, more than ever, it's frowned upon by a white person saying the word.

It's best just not to say the shit, no matter what. I don't completely understand why black folk continue to use it amongst themselves but they have every right to do so.

Kendrick bringing up a white girl on stage to rap along to the song just screams setup to me though. Filthy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,812
Next time, maybe, not let someone sings a song where the n-word happens to appear fourteen times if you think it's offensive.

This was a pretty silly setup.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I think the setup complaints would be more valid if Lamar had actually blown up at her. He educated her, she understood and corrected herself, it was a lesson. Amicable all around.

I absolutely think that it's possible for a white person to say that word accidentally (especially in such a circumstance) though. The word itself's ingrained in the culture, so I think I'd understand why it can be a(n egregious) slip of the tongue. PoC folks have every right to not tolerate that though, ofc.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,657
If you're white, don't say it. Period.

If you're a multi-million selling artist, don't invite a white person on stage to sing the song you wrote and know the lyrics to and expect them to be able to ad lib or censor on the fly.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
I can't imagine staying in rhythm rapping DAMN while also omitting the N-words. It's inviting trouble by even asking someone white to rap along up on stage to begin with if it's something you know you'll have an issue with. Both parties handled it well though and Kendrick played her off with a bit of humor. If there's a major controversy here then I'm not quite seeing it.

I think there's a pretty massive gulf between a white person saying the word to put down and subjugate an entire race and a white person singing it from lyrics a millionaire black man wrote. Treating both scenarios with the same response is pretty over-reactionary and strips the conversation of a lot of the nuance. But that doesn't mean it's right and I 100% understand the argument against even saying it at all. When in doubt, just omit it out of respect.

That said, the woman's emphasis on the harder 'R' took me by surprise.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
A few thoughts:

- I don't think hip-hop should use the N-word unless they're making an artistic point or re-appropriating the word (same goes for "bitch" or "faggot").
- Context is king, so white people rapping along lyrics that include the N-word at a concert in solidarity with a black rapper shouldn't be considered a mortal sin. Big difference between that and calling a black person a N as an insult which you should never ever do.
- Personally I'd never say the N-word at a concert
- Lamar has the right to do what he did at the concert and pointing this out. However, I think it's probably counter productive since telling white males they can't do something is the type of thing that pushes idiots towards the alt-right rabbit hole.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The idea that one word can be said only by a specific group of people, it's bizarre to me. It has nothing to do with being black, white, yellow whatever. Such concept is crazy to me.

So saying the n-word has nothing to do with being black?

You should look up the word context. It might help you understand.
 

BurntFoot

Banned
Apr 10, 2018
2,204
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The idea that one word can be said only by a specific group of people, it's bizarre to me. It has nothing to do with being black, white, yellow whatever. Such concept is crazy to me.
Want to know what's actually crazy? Centuries of oppression against black folks. Your opinion on this topic is irrelevant. If you ain't black, don't say it.
 
Oct 24, 2017
2,420
I really don't see how the fuck this blew up.like it did. Kendrick handled it better than I think most people should be expected to, the woman apologized and corrected it, end of story.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
I completely get people not wanting non blacks to use that word in speech etc. But in a song, I feel that iffy. Ppl write wrongs )with lyrics which can be completely out of control (I'm not talking about a specifc word etc , just songs in general . eg pumped up kicks is about shooting ppl does that mean no one should sing pumped up kicks etc).

Anyway the siutation is avoided by not having her on stage.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The idea that one word can be said only by a specific group of people, it's bizarre to me. It has nothing to do with being black, white, yellow whatever. Such concept is crazy to me.
Here the speaker's skin color matters BECAUSE THE WORD ITSELF HAS RACIAL CONNOTATIONS. A knife in a cook and a murderer's hands convey different things. The N-word is similar. Regardless of intent, a white person saying it digs up memories of slavery and racism that's been plaguing black people for centuries.

Most other words we use don't have similar connotations because they aren't words that were MADE FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISPARAGING AN IDENTITY.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
Excuse my ignorance but I don't understand why anyone would want to use the word - I'm European caucasian from Vancouver Canada, and have never used that word personally and never heard it conversationally growing up, so I don't have context outside of US media, reading literature, and my time in the US (and only started traveling or living there in later in my 20s).

Can someone explain it to me and hopefully I don't get banned asking it? But why do black people in the US still use that word if they as a society don't want it? Doesn't it seem to be to be continuing to imbue it into the lexicon of your society when you want it removed from it? Especially for those ignorant to the historical significance. I understand systematic racism towards black people is still very strong in the US (and possibly even getting worse), but unless you are a victim of the systematic racism, then you aren't experiencing it first hand, it seems it may be hard for a lot of newer sheltered generations to learn the historical significance. So they don't get the historical significance but experience it from pop culture often - so it seems to create these kinds of situations.

I just don't understand the logic. Does it have something to do with trying to own a word and create your own cultural power on it to override the awful history of it? I just read the history on it and it never had a positive connotation and repurposed for a negative / derogatory connotation like some words to want to bring it back to the positive connotation. Because the logic of wanting to repurpose it and owning it makes sense but it seems to me to be less of a pro then the con of continuing to imbue it into the lexicon of US society to me. Is this where the difference is in thoughts because nobody using the word at all and only culture that experienced it using it?

I just don't think I see it in any other situation in the other cultures or subcultures I've experienced or lived in. I just always go by the philosophy of only using the words someone wants to be described with - and if you're not sure you ask - so you don't have these situations like you see with this girl. While that would seem obvious, I do see this not being applied by a lot of people still, especially with the newer dynamic of pronouns.

And that's probably the best example I can understand and why this doesn't make sense to me. Unless I know I always ask someone what pronoun they prefer to use the correct pronoun for their gender identification (as an example), and then I never see them use the pronoun they don't prefer but don't tell me to use the pronoun they just used - that would seem counter-productive to me.

Thoughts? Again hopefully not banned for trying to understand. Mods please understand the ignorance when you don't have US context.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,881
Den Haag, Netherlands
She's lucky she isn't in the UK as she would probably end up doing jail time for inciting hatred/hate speech.
Rightfully so.

I just don't understand the logic. Does it have something to do with trying to own a word and create your own cultural power on it to override the awful history of it? I just read the history on it and it never had a positive connotation and repurposed for a negative / derogatory connotation like some words to want to bring it back to the positive connotation. Because the logic of wanting to repurpose it and owning it makes sense but it seems to me to be less of a pro then the con of continuing to imbue it into the lexicon of US society to me. Is this where the difference is in thoughts because nobody using the word at all and only culture that experienced it using it?
Vancouver Canada isn't on the other side of the globe lol.
 
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