Don't think they are. I get it was entertaining at spots, but overall it's a bad movie. The villain, his bride, carnage, all of it felt so cheesy. MCU isn't super amazing, but it's better than that.
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Kevin Feige on bringing [SPOILER] to the MCU
- Thread starter Fj0823
- Start date
I mean, obv the original venom story is spider man -> venom, but it could be interesting to have a take here where Venom learns from Spider Man, instead of being foundationally created by him. It's not like he's really swinging on symbiote webs in any of the venom movies he's just jumpin around. Maybe in the future the symbiote gloms onto spidey and picks up some techniques. Or maybe he's just a fanboy, and starts emulating him. There's gonna be some kind of connection there, he's got a real boner for Holland in that post-credits scene already.
I don't think a grim dark super serious Venom movie works either with Carnage.
They can always do the Ultimate Spider Man game thing where a part of Venom or heck, Venom himself bonds with Peter and by the time Brock gets him back he would have the Spider logo and certain abilities.
I think they jealousy could be used to make them work just fine. Venom and Brock are basically a couple and couple do fight at some point.
Humorous/cheesy movies can still have good action, good villains, good side characters, good dialogue etc, none of which Venom 1 has.
I do agree though that if they had gone full gritty and still whiffed on all of those things it'd be a worse movie. Haven't seen 2.
Forget a movie crossing over Sony and Marvel. We need a movie about the adventures of Feige and Amy. They look like they get into some crazy stuff together. Sandra Bullock's comeback vehicle.
Can anyone explain to me the hatred some people have for the Venom films
They are a super hero film, they seem fine, ifs fairly dumb but clearly in an intentional way and not in a "Lex Luthor pisses in a jar then kills his own assistant" way. Instead it just comes off as a bunch of people ranting about something they didnt like being popular and I dont see why Venom...
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They are very poorly made movies.
There are entertaining aspects to them. I understand why people can enjoy the Eddie/Venom relationship. But they're poorly made films.
Besides being bad at everything that isn't Tom Hardy (who for many is so bad he's good), people correctly surmised that the success of that first movie would embolden Sony to stop working with Disney on MCU Spidey films, which is exactly what happened for a while there.
(Or have good characters, action, villains, dialogue, sets, costumes...)
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My main issue is that even after all the trouble of making Venom his own hero, effectively divorcing him from Spider-Man and freaking succeeding at it....They were eager to cut and resolve every single relationship he had to his world to cleanly dump him into the MCU...to obsess over Spider-Man.
Venom seems to be breakout hero and Sony so far treates him like he's in Spider-Man's shadow.
Imagine if Iron Man (2008) never trusted the character and instead they made movies were Tony just gets cut out of everything his character has just to say "THE X MEN ARE COMING GUYS"
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I mean , it's pretty hype when it flashes. It's like the PS2 console boot up to me.
Yeah, this is super valid.
If I were a Venom fan, I feel like I'd be bummed if they really do just dump Brock in the MCU without any of his supporting characters. That said, I remember seeing someone claim that Venom 2 wrapped up those arcs (This post I guess supports that by saying they are resolved) which I guess would soften the blow somewhat.
Maybe you get some dramatic tension if a Michelle Williams variant exists in the MCU and Brock runs into her, but who knows, maybe that's too cliche.
BS. People were hyped when they found out Venom would be in Spider-man 3. Then the movie came out. It was bad.
Everyone just wants a good representation of Venom on the big screen. My fingers are crossed they get it right.
Yeah, that's an important thing to remember. As far as I know, most of the people that dislike the Venom film aren't against Venom the character, just how the movie turned out. I hated that movie but I would've been super psyched if it was great.
Morbius though poisoned the well by casting Jared Leto's creeper ass to headline a movie about a character about 1/15th as popular as Venom, so we'll see how that works for them
Oh it can still be funny. But it needs better writing. The tone wasn't the issue. The writing and performances just sucked.
My theory is that the Sony / MCU crossovers was part of the deal to get more MCU Spider-man movies and appearances. So the multiverse Spider-man stuff is Marvel Studios making a way to explain all the weird stuff Sony ends up doing.
There was a really vocal segment of MCU fans hoping the movie would bomb so that Sony would lose all negotiation power when it came to Spider-Man. And then the exact opposite happened.
Same overlap with the people who were cheerleading Disney purchasing Fox because it would mean the X-Men would finally get into the MCU. lol
Makes me wonder why we don't get people demanding for there to be a breaking up of WB's "monopoly on DC characters" the way that people feel that Marvel shouldn't be able to make movies with their own characters.
The reason for this is because Sony was going to use that negotiation power to kneecap an existing narrative.
This is probably an over-dramatic comparison, but imagine if suddenly the Lord of the Rings trilogy lost the rights to Gandalf before ROTK. ROTK couldn't mention Gandalf, and the ensuing Gandalf movie couldn't mention any other members of LOTR. That leads to a worse ROTK, and a worse Gandalf film. (the point of this example is not at all to compare the quality of MCU films and the LOTR trilogy, by the way)
Was it probably dumb for Marvel to rush into a fragile pact with Sony and then center their universe around Peter Parker? Yeah, it really almost bit them in the ass when Sony gave them the bird.
But then Sony would've made a Spider-Man movie where they couldn't reference tons of the characters or events of the movies he'd appeared in up to that point. It would have been a weird corporate frankenstein of a movie and that would have come at the cost of the story. maybe they would have kept Holland but rebooted everything else, but that would have been its own flavor of disappointing.
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The MCU has a very different tone than the Venom movies so I'm interested in seeing how they mesh them together. There are some cool things they could do with it
I mean, I'm not going to pick up sword and shield to fight for Warner Bros honor if they, hypothetically sold off the rights to make a Superman movie and then regretted it when they wanted it back.
I find a lot of this "MCU Good, Sony are the villains" stuff kind of laughable.
Regardless of how people feel about the MCU in general, I think most people can admit that they do a good job respecting and adapting their own IP. Sony's own track record, even outside of Spider-Man movies, is spotty at best and filled with poor IP management, then you got Tom Rothman who is running Sony Pictures who has his own infamous history with superhero/X-Men films during his time at Fox and it's like Sony are the good guys here? Also, if you read the emails from the Sony hack, especially related to Spider-Man, Kevin Feige had very good notes regarding ASM2 while Sony's execs just came across out of touch and cynically business minded every step of the way. It's not surprising that people trust Feige more.
The fact that fans want to see the Marvel characters interact in an interconnected universe when that is Marvel's whole M.O. (and they are actually willing to take risks on lower tier characters) is no reason to fault them for it or disingenuously paint it nothing more than cynical corporate cheerleading as if there wasn't people rooting for Sony or Comcast in the Fox buyout for their own petty and selfish reasons.
Maybe you can act like you could just hypothetically accept/support the business decisions of WB's if there was somehow some similar corporate battle over the rights of DC characters, but I'm sure every time you watched a CW DC show where suddenly a DC character was made off limits because of the movies might potentially do something with them or they had to write a character out of a show, you felt some type of way about it rather than just saying, "Eh, it's just business. It is what it is."
Also, it really says a lot about the type of deals that were in place that it was easier for Marvel to regain the rights to Fantastic Four by straight up buying out Fox than there being any chance of the rights reverting back to them despite not making movies with the characters. All they have to do is shit out a cynical reboot every 7-8 years or whatever and the calculation could be that it makes more financial sense to make a movie that loses money than allowing the IP to revert, especially since Marvel is increasing the value of their own IP through their movies and a studio can just demand a ton of money for Marvel/Disney to buy it back from them. The unreleased Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie was the most obvious example of the lengths they would go to to hold onto the IP, that was way before the MCU or even Marvel movies were proven to be profitable.
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Yeah, I don't get it either. Venom was good dumb fun (haven't seen the 2nd one). They're all just disposable entertainment.
We were clear about that.
In 2019 the deal was for one more Spider-Man solo at 75/25 cofi/profit Sony/Disney sharing split and 1 more ensemble movie where SM has a cameo. That's been known.