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Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Just want to be clear on the neighboring/friendly creature thing. Are you saying if you have a ready and fight if you ready the creature it MUST fight and if there are no enemy creatures is MUST attack a neighboring/friendly creature?
i assume you're talking about sergeant zakiel or ganger chieftain

the wording is "play: you may ready and fight with a neighbouring creature"

play means the ability comes into effect immediately after you play the card and it enters your battleline

may means you can ignore the entire ability should you choose to

if you choose to resolve the ability, the neighboring creature will be readied (if it's not already ready) and then has to fight any enemy creature present. if no enemy creature exists on the board, it cannot fight, but will remain readied.

it's not possible under any circumstances for a creature under your control to fight another creature under your control. (it is possible, however, for a creature under your control to deal damage to other creatures under your control using e.g. play, reap or action abilities, but this is not relevant in this case.) if no enemy creature is present when you play sergeant zakiel or ganger chieftain, the neighboring creature will only be readied but won't fight anyone
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
if you choose to resolve the ability, the neighboring creature will be readied (if it's not already ready) and then has to fight any enemy creature present. if no enemy creature exists on the board, it cannot fight, but will remain readied.

And to finish this line of thought:

If the newly readied creature is of the house you called at the beginning of your turn and cannot fight, it is still ready and can be used as normal to reap or perform an action.

For example: You have Champion Anaphiel on the board and the opponent has no creatures, you call Sanctum and use Anaphiel to reap. You gain an amber and Anaphiel is exhausted. You then play Sergeant Zakiel and put him down next to the exhausted Anaphiel you have on the board. Anaphiel becomes ready, but since there are no creatures to fight Zakiel's play conditions are complete. Since Anaphiel is ready and of the house you called, you can use him to reap again for another amber.
 

Maynerd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,526
Redmond, WA
And to finish this line of thought:

If the newly readied creature is of the house you called at the beginning of your turn and cannot fight, it is still ready and can be used as normal to reap or perform an action.

For example: You have Champion Anaphiel on the board and the opponent has no creatures, you call Sanctum and use Anaphiel to reap. You gain an amber and Anaphiel is exhausted. You then play Sergeant Zakiel and put him down next to the exhausted Anaphiel you have on the board. Anaphiel becomes ready, but since there are no creatures to fight Zakiel's play conditions are complete. Since Anaphiel is ready and of the house you called, you can use him to reap again for another amber.

Interesting thanks for the clarification.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
And to finish this line of thought:

If the newly readied creature is of the house you called at the beginning of your turn and cannot fight, it is still ready and can be used as normal to reap or perform an action.

For example: You have Champion Anaphiel on the board and the opponent has no creatures, you call Sanctum and use Anaphiel to reap. You gain an amber and Anaphiel is exhausted. You then play Sergeant Zakiel and put him down next to the exhausted Anaphiel you have on the board. Anaphiel becomes ready, but since there are no creatures to fight Zakiel's play conditions are complete. Since Anaphiel is ready and of the house you called, you can use him to reap again for another amber.
Be aware that some players, perhaps most players (in my store's case) and/or judges will argue that "ready and fight" has to be done together and this isn't possible. They can further argue this is backed up by the designer issuing a FAQ update without clarifying this. :(
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Be aware that some players, perhaps most players (in my store's case) and/or judges will argue that "ready and fight" has to be done together and this isn't possible. They can further argue this is backed up by the designer issuing a FAQ update without clarifying this. :(
it's a pretty big oversight that this has not been clarified in official documentation

you can find online people showing personal correspondence with brad andres at FFG where he explains that this is indeed how it works, but maybe these stubborn people don't want to take those as trustworthy

there was a stream archive on twitch where he explains this is how the card works, but that video seems to no longer be online, unfortunately

judges really should keep more up to date on these official rules clarifications communicated only in unofficial channels
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
it's a pretty big oversight that this has not been clarified in official documentation

you can find online people showing personal correspondence with brad andres at FFG where he explains that this is indeed how it works, but maybe these stubborn people don't want to take those as trustworthy

there was a stream archive on twitch where he explains this is how the card works, but that video seems to no longer be online, unfortunately

judges really should keep more up to date on these official rules clarifications communicated only in unofficial channels
And that's why I give in to the people who argue this virtually every other night I play -- I don't want to be like "no, store owner, come over here" *pulls out phone* *waits for Facebook to load*

"OK you see this post from Brad Andres 2 months ago? He totally meant this back then but didn't put it in the FAQ update, and probably hasn't changed his mind by now!" :P
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
got to thin my collection and sell a few decks I picked up if anyone is interested! PM for deets.
(maybe i'm way off base here and you've got a bunch of pms sitting in your inbox now) but i think you'll have more luck with finding people looking to buy your decks if you just link the deck pages on keyforgegame.com so people can see if you have anything they'd be interested in without contacting you by PM
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Finally got to play this last night. It's a really fun game, and I noticed that I never once felt resource-starved, which was nice. Gonna pick up some decks now! We have 4 in the house already, and the one I played is actually pretty badass. Mars, Sanctum, Brobnar.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
tru

Wrongdoer Fitti: Brobnar / Logos / Shadows (sealed, scanned)
highlights: 2x Routine Job, Miasma, 4x Firespitter, 3x Bumpsy, Scrambler Storm + Foggify

Swiftly Titanium Felix: Brobnar / Sanctum / Shadows (sealed, scanned)
highlights: Burn the Stockpile, Coward's End + Loot the Bodies, Potion of Invulnerability + Sigil of Brotherhood, Mantle of the Zealot, Safe Place + Selwyn the Fence

both pretty fun (try them out on Crucible!) and consistent, I just have too many.
they do look fun, but unfortunately i already have both those house combinations :/

the first one has a name that's funny in swedish because fitta is swedish for cunt, lol
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
Just bought 2 decks, now to find the rules online and a friend to play
 

Excelsior

Member
Oct 28, 2017
719
so, uhm.
I got five decks, and.. one of them is pretty insane. It's currently 18-0 in my friend circle. One time someone crafted 2 keys against it, but it'll generally win 3-0.
https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/eee92368-6d8e-4d1b-8e7d-42a52672bc4e
Imitation is wrong. Just wrong. Double imitation is.. obscene.
I've gotten quite a few decks so far, but I think this one might just be the best.

y'all let me know if you ever wanna sell these <_< >_>
 

Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
How long does a normal game take?
depends on a lot of factors:

how familiar each players is with the game and rules in general

how familiar each player is with their deck

types of decks

how close the game is

most games, now that i've gotten used to the game and my decks, run between 20 minutes and 40 minutes, with some games being slower and some faster. when i was new, a game could take me upwards of one hour. all these times are for online games. i'd imagine in-person games would run quite a bit longer
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,419
My wife and I have now played 6 games of Keyforge (3 of them just with the tutorial decks). I thought in our most recent one, we had finally played a game where we didn't get a rule wrong or forget to resolve all interactions. Nope, I just re-read the rule for chains and I didn't realize that you lower your chain number every time it prevents you from drawing a card. Oh well, there's always game 7...

Also, we've tested the Ms. Onyx starter deck against the two unique decks that came with the starter set and Ms. Onyx destroyed them with ease, every time. I sort of assumed the starter decks were weak decks, but I'm starting to think that's not true. Anyone else try out the starter decks against "real" decks?
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Also, we've tested the Ms. Onyx starter deck against the two unique decks that came with the starter set and Ms. Onyx destroyed them with ease, every time. I sort of assumed the starter decks were weak decks, but I'm starting to think that's not true. Anyone else try out the starter decks against "real" decks?
i haven't played much with the starter decks myself, but just by looking at the decklists, i'd say they're somewhere in the middle on the power curve. i feel like each of my random decks would stand a good chance against them, and none of them are too terribly powerful

that said, i do think they're designed to be quite easy to use for a beginner. a new player will probably do better with the starter deck than with most random decks, but if you were to return after gaining more experience with the game, and learning how to properly play your random decks, you'd probably reconsider your initial assessment that the starter decks are more powerful
while shopping for deck boxes and sleeves, i bought my fifth deck

and this one is...interesting

it will certainly not be easy to play, but probably quite fun.

it's got logos, mars and shadows, none of which looks particularly strong, though mars looks decent with two tunks and my shadows have two shadow self to keep squishier creatures alive.

but the constant across all houses seems to be card draw and archiving. logos has mother, doc bookton and two library of babble, though no library access, unfortunately. and a sloppy labwork. mars has two biomatrix backup (though they are pretty weak with the rule clarification), two vezyma thinkdrones and a battle fleet for card draw. shadows has masterplan and hidden stash.

i have a veylan analyst which should be able to generate some amber if it stays alive with 5 artifacts and one nexus. i also have a decent amount of direct damage cards to play for damage and amber

the strategy that suggests itself is to cycle the deck as quickly as possible to try and use as many action cards as quickly as possible, while archiving mars for big turns with battle fleet and mothergun.

i'm looking forward to trying it out
can report that this deck is pretty bad
after further testing, can report that this deck will actually do decently under the right circusmstances.

just got four straight wins on the crucible against randos with it

right circumstances equals mid-game battle fleet for a big swing to set up five or so mars creatures

the deck struggles the most against sanctum decks, because i'm having a hard time doing damage that sticks against opponents with armor
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
. Nope, I just re-read the rule for chains and I didn't realize that you lower your chain number every time it prevents you from drawing a card. Oh well, there's always game 7...

Keep in mind that you lose chains when you could have drawn and didn't because of the chains. If you wouldn't have been able to draw anyway, the chains stay the same.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,419
that said, i do think they're designed to be quite easy to use for a beginner. a new player will probably do better with the starter deck than with most random decks, but if you were to return after gaining more experience with the game, and learning how to properly play your random decks, you'd probably reconsider your initial assessment that the starter decks are more powerful
That makes sense.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,688
I got 2 decks last week. 1 seems mediocre while other seems a bit more decent!

I do like the game. :)
 

Li Kao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,730
Hmm, first game half played and it has potential.
Quick stupid question : do the "play" abilities only activate when a card first enter play or each time you activate the card ?
 

Li Kao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,730
Yeah, it was stupidly powerful in my twisted way.
And what do the game calls "action" abilities ? Any example ? Not talking about action cards here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
They're activated each time the card enters play.
mostly correct

but there is a subtle difference between a card "being played" and a card "being put into play"

all cards that are "being played" are "put into play" but not all cards that are "put into play" have "been played"

play abilities resolve only when a card is "being played", but not if it's coming into play as a result of another card that has the wording of "putting [something] into play"

another detail: regarding exact timing, play abilities resolve immediately after the card in question comes into place, which matters sometimes
A creature or artifact will have the words Action on then. You activate the card to do its action like "Action: Steal 1 AEmber."

note that there is a difference between action and omni.

artifacts and creatures with action abilities can only resolve their action abilities if you called the house of that card, while artifacts and creatures with omni abilities can resolve their omni abilities regardless of what house you called

oh, and to make things even more confusing, action is also used in another context

all cards are divided into different classe: including creature cards, action cards, artifacts, and upgrade cards.

so aside from the fact that creature cards and artifacts may have action abilities, action cards is also a class of cards that resolve immediately on being played

(they really shouldn't have used the same word for both action abilities and action cards)
 
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Li Kao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,730
Hmm, just simulated some hands and...
If I understood you correctly, you only apply the "play" ability when you really play the card, not when a card tells you to play another card. Ok.
But what if, as it just happened to me, you play Wild Wormhole, that tells you to play the top card of your deck and you discover a... wild wormhole ?
Are you boned or do you play another top card ?
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,939
CT
Hmm, just simulated some hands and...
If I understood you correctly, you only apply the "play" ability when you really play the card, not when a card tells you to play another card. Ok.
But what if, as it just happened to me, you play Wild Wormhole, that tells you to play the top card of your deck and you discover a... wild wormhole ?
Are you boned or do you play another top card ?

You would play another top card UNLESS you are the first turn player. The first turn player may only play 1 card no matter what.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,156
You would play another top card UNLESS you are the first turn player. The first turn player may only play 1 card no matter what.
The first turn rule is only play 1 card from their hand. Playing Wild Wormhole turn 1 as the start player allows you to play an additional card from the deck. If that was also Wild Wormhole you get to play another card from your deck.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,939
CT
The first turn rule is only play 1 card from their hand. Playing Wild Wormhole turn 1 as the start player allows you to play an additional card from the deck. If that was also Wild Wormhole you get to play another card from your deck.

Oh nvm I'm tired, what I'm thinking was if wild wormhole let you play a card that said something like (play any creature from your hand) that would not be allowed by the first turn rule.
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
What sleeves and deck boxes would y'all recommend?
Dragon Shield for sleeves and Ultimate Guard for the deck boxes

Some questions: 1) If a card removes a stun from a creature, can that creature then immediately perform an action? 2) Some artifacts have text without a condition: Like "All friendly creatures gain +1 power"; does this action only happen once? or each turn? Those types of artifacts are a bit confusing.
 

Kito

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,157
Hi everyone! I just bought my first 3 decks, and I'm looking for some advice as to what to look for in them to try and figure out what my best deck might be from the get go, as I'd like to give the lesser two to my girlfriend and roommate to play against.

Obviously there's surely no simple way to tell, but any hints would be greatly appreciated!
 

JVID

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,196
Chicagoland
Dragon Shield for sleeves and Ultimate Guard for the deck boxes

Some questions: 1) If a card removes a stun from a creature, can that creature then immediately perform an action? 2) Some artifacts have text without a condition: Like "All friendly creatures gain +1 power"; does this action only happen once? or each turn? Those types of artifacts are a bit confusing.
If the creature isn't exhausted when the stun is removed, it should be able to attack/reap/ect. If the artifact isn't an action, I believe it'd be +1 power to any friendly creature on the field as long as the artifact is also on the field. It wouldn't stack each turn but it would apply to any new creatures set.
 

JVID

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,196
Chicagoland
Hi everyone! I just bought my first 3 decks, and I'm looking for some advice as to what to look for in them to try and figure out what my best deck might be from the get go, as I'd like to give the lesser two to my girlfriend and roommate to play against.

Obviously there's surely no simple way to tell, but any hints would be greatly appreciated!
Lol I know it's not the case, but it sounds like a dick move to purposely give the shittier decks to the people your playing against. Why not keep all 3 and let whoever one of them you play against pick a deck for the single game. Cycling through them will give you a better idea than I think we could. I play with my so and just treat the decks as a collective pool. Flip a coin to see who picks first if you need too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Hmm, just simulated some hands and...
If I understood you correctly, you only apply the "play" ability when you really play the card, not when a card tells you to play another card. Ok.
But what if, as it just happened to me, you play Wild Wormhole, that tells you to play the top card of your deck and you discover a... wild wormhole ?
Are you boned or do you play another top card ?
First player may only play one hard from hand. wild wormhole tells you to play a card from the deck, so it will resolve even if the first player plays it, and if wild wormhole plays another wild wormhole, that one will resolve fully as well.

I may have confused people with my description of creatures and artifacts with play abilities. Whether play abilities of cards that come into play as a result of another card resolve or not depend on the specific wording of the card that puts it into play.

If a card says to play another card (examples of such cards are Sacrificial Altar, wild wormhole and Chaos Portal) play abilities of the cards played as a result will resolve.

If a card says to put another card into play (e.g. Overlord Greking, Swap Widget), play abilities of the card put into play as a result will not resolve
 
Last edited:

Kito

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,157
Lol I know it's not the case, but it sounds like a dick move to purposely give the shittier decks to the people your playing against. Why not keep all 3 and let whoever one of them you play against pick a deck for the single game. Cycling through them will give you a better idea than I think we could. I play with my so and just treat the decks as a collective pool. Flip a coin to see who picks first if you need too.

Haha, I figured it would have come off that way, but I'm the only one who is actually interested, and they'd just be playing with me as a favor. The goal is they may get into it and want to get more decks along with me, and maybe even want to play in local tournaments or online with others.

Besides, I'm not expecting one of the three decks to be completely dominant over the other two, but if there's something in one of them that may make it stand out in some way, I'd be the only one of the three of us to actually care. :P

But yeah, I'd be all about swapping decks with them to keep things fresh, but when it comes to registering deck codes to our accounts, that's where I'm giving up two of the three decks to them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Some questions: 1) If a card removes a stun from a creature, can that creature then immediately perform an action? 2) Some artifacts have text without a condition: Like "All friendly creatures gain +1 power"; does this action only happen once? or each turn
It would be easier to understand the questions if you specify what specific cards you're referring to.

1. Are you talking about Clear Mind? That card only removes stun from each friendly creature. Whether they can then be used or not then follows all the normal rules for whether you can use a creature. Are they ready or exhausted? Do they belong to the active house? If they do not belong to the active house, then you could still use them if you have any cards that allow you to use off-house cards.

2. Are you talking about Banner of Battle? That one has a passive ability. Passive abilities remain active for as long as the card they're on remain in play. In other words, as long as Banner of Battle remains in play, all friendly creatures will have +1 power.

Here is an example of an interesting interaction with Banner of Battle. Let's say you have a Krump in play. Normally, Krumps are power 6. However, with Banner of Battle in play, your Krump will be a 7 power creature. If it has taken a total of 6 damage, it will still not be destroyed because its power is now 7. However, let's say your opponent makes your Banner of Battle leave play. The Krump will then go from being a 7 power creature to being a 6 power creature. If it has still has a total of 6 damge on it, it will be immediately destroyed after Banner of Battle leaves play.
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
If the creature isn't exhausted when the stun is removed, it should be able to attack/reap/ect. If the artifact isn't an action, I believe it'd be +1 power to any friendly creature on the field as long as the artifact is also on the field. It wouldn't stack each turn but it would apply to any new creatures set.
It would be easier to understand the questions if you specify what specific cards you're referring to.

1. Are you talking about Clear Mind? That card only removes stun from each friendly creature. Whether they can then be used or not then follows all the normal rules for whether you can use a creature. Are they ready or exhausted? Do they belong to the active house? If they do not belong to the active house, then you could still use them if you have any cards that allow you to use off-house cards.

2. Are you talking about Banner of Battle? That one has a passive ability. Passive abilities remain active for as long as the card they're on remain in play. In other words, as long as Banner of Battle remains in play, all friendly creatures will have +1 power.

Here is an example of an interesting interaction with Banner of Battle. Let's say you have a Krump in play. Normally, Krumps are power 6. However, with Banner of Battle in play, your Krump will be a 7 power creature. If it has taken a total of 6 damage, it will still not be destroyed because its power is now 7. However, let's say your opponent makes your Banner of Battle leave play. The Krump will then go from being a 7 power creature to being a 6 power creature. If it has still has a total of 6 damge on it, it will be immediately destroyed after Banner of Battle leaves play.
I don't remember the actual cards, but I think JVIDICAN cleared it up. Thanks to you both for the responses.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
here is the deck in question:

Hutton D. Razorcock, the Third

the problem is that the upgrades are rocket boots and transposition boots which grant a fight/reap ability and an action ability respectively. in other words, i have to use the creature for the upgrades to have any effect. playing the upgrade on a non-logos creature means i can't get any use of the upgrade until next turn. since the abilities granted by the upgrades are quite useful it's unlikely the creature who gets it will live that long because my opponent will prioritize killing them. and since i have only three logos creatures in the deck (of which two are quite squishy) it's very unlikely i'll have logos creatures already in play when i draw the upgrades. (having logos creatures or mack the knife already in play when i play the upgrades would be the only way to make use of the upgrade in the same turn i play it)

realistically, playing the upgrade just to make one of my creatures into a must-kill can be a good idea in and of itself to make my opponent waste time and resources going after them

the deck is just weird. the logos side is just weak overall. the only good cards are the instant damage dealers and mother. the rest don't synergize well and the lack of library access hurts a lot. wild wormhole is VERY risky in this deck since around ~5 could REALLY hurt me if they come out at the wrong time, and another handful could help my opponent more than myself at the wrong time, though maybe not catastrophically

the brobnar side is decent with two board clearers, tremor to stall my opponent while hoping to draw something good and some decent artifacts. but only having four creatures (and relatively weak ones by brobnar standards, though with good play effects) hurts a lot since it's a house that really likes to fight. it's rare that i make more than one or two ember from warsong for this reason. IF i have all the artifacts out though and IF my opponent's side is clear (thanks to the board clearers) i can get a few quick reaps in with the gauntlets of command which helps me catch up

the shadow side is the only strong part of the deck. bait and switch is great, a couple of units with fight abilities to steal synchronizes well with the "ready and fight with" cards on the brobnar side. shadow self helps keep squishier units alive. mack the knife is cool if he gets to live. the only bummer iz that i don't have a no-brainer target for pawn sacrifice, except for the research smoko in logos. i use it sometimes to kill a wounded brobnar creature with a good "play" ability if the deck is close to a reshuffle

playing this deck is very tricky but fun. it has some cards that are great at certain moments (board clearers plus bait and switch) but which can be useless dead weight if drawn to early. IF i get a chance to reap with ganymede archivist to put those situational cards into my archives, that could help a lot

curious if anyone has any ideas what to do with this deck. the only synergies that jump out at me are elusive creatures + shadow self in shadows, pawn sacrifice plus + research smoko (very rarely do i get the chance), transposition sandals + mack the knife (again, rare and takes time and luck to set up) and brobnar ready and fight with cards either with brobnar creature or with dodger and umbra in shadows
can't believe i trash talked this deck so much

while not amazing, i now think it is the strongest, or at least second strongest, deck i have

it struggles against action heavy rush decks since it doesn't have so much action card free amber, but overall it performs much better than it should

even though it has very few creatures in brobnar, it can set up a pretty nice reap situation thanks to two board wipes there and two gauntlets of command

six direct damage cards ain't bad either

and old bruno is a great combo with bait and switch:

when they are about to forge, play old bruno, then on the next turn bait and switch after they kill him or after having him commit suicide, because they'll probably earn more amber in that time, meaning you'll get more out of the bait and switch
 

JVID

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,196
Chicagoland
can't believe i trash talked this deck so much

while not amazing, i now think it is the strongest, or at least second strongest, deck i have

it struggles against action heavy rush decks since it doesn't have so much action card free amber, but overall it performs much better than it should

even though it has very few creatures in brobnar, it can set up a pretty nice reap situation thanks to two board wipes there and two gauntlets of command

six direct damage cards ain't bad either

and old bruno is a great combo with bait and switch:

when they are about to forge, play old bruno, then on the next turn bait and switch after they kill him or after having him commit suicide, because they'll probably earn more amber in that time, meaning you'll get more out of the bait and switch
I feel like a lot of the "bad" decks are like this. There strategys and combos just needing to be discovered and the decks played to their strengths.
 
Feb 16, 2018
1,561
Had a friend show this to me last night at our commander magic night. Only played 1 game so still getting the hang of it but it seemed fun. Will need to play more to really get a grip on everything but overall a positive first impression.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,419
We had to order a starter set direct from FFG. We don't have any other games like this so we needed the set.