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KeyForge by Richard Garfield - The first Unique Deck Game (can't modify decks)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
i have a pretty bad deck with two biomatrix backups
hopefully this rules update will make it slightly more viable, since the one good trick it has is to archive a bunch of mars cards for a big battle fleet turn
hopefully this rules update will make it slightly more viable, since the one good trick it has is to archive a bunch of mars cards for a big battle fleet turn
played for the first time irl today at a sealed event
it was pretty fun, but yikes what a mess the stun and power token cards are. need to find something to replace them
found it a bit tricky to keep track of everything, how much amber you get and where it should go after a creature that has captured it is destroyed.
and my deck was pretty bad, lol. lost all 3 games. logos, dis, sanctum, very poor amber generation (10 bonus amber in total), barely any amber control (one batdrone, two francus, one terms of redress and that's it)
dis was decent with arise, 3 fates, gateway, 2 tocsins and 2 (!) library of the damned which should help me a bit with the logos side which has library access
will play it a bit on the crucible to see if i can find a way to win with it. it's my only deck with library access which i've wanted for awhile
it was pretty fun, but yikes what a mess the stun and power token cards are. need to find something to replace them
found it a bit tricky to keep track of everything, how much amber you get and where it should go after a creature that has captured it is destroyed.
and my deck was pretty bad, lol. lost all 3 games. logos, dis, sanctum, very poor amber generation (10 bonus amber in total), barely any amber control (one batdrone, two francus, one terms of redress and that's it)
dis was decent with arise, 3 fates, gateway, 2 tocsins and 2 (!) library of the damned which should help me a bit with the logos side which has library access
will play it a bit on the crucible to see if i can find a way to win with it. it's my only deck with library access which i've wanted for awhile
Yeah, I need to upgrade my token situation as well. I haven't had a problem keeping track of aember so far, but you could always use different colored aember for each side, so that you know where each aember came from.
What are you all using for tokens? Played the game over the weekend for the first time and quite enjoyed it but tracking things was a bit of a challenge. I found this on amazon which looks really nice but seems a bit rich especially if I bought two sets.
https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Token...=UTF8&qid=1548483259&sr=8-8&keywords=keyforge
https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Token...=UTF8&qid=1548483259&sr=8-8&keywords=keyforge
I've been playing this with a buddy of mine at work for a few weeks. I like it, but there's one thing that I just can't wrap my head around, and maybe it's because I'm used to other TCGs. But it really, really ruins the game for me.
It really all boils down to the draw system. I hate it. I hate having to use cards to get more cards. Frequently, I'll have very situational cards that I don't want to discard but I don't want to use at the present time. Keyforge forces the player to just sit on these, and punishes them by not allowing me to draw more cards. I probably need to bite the bullet and just discard these, but it goes against my better judgment 9 times out of ten. Additionally, if someone gets a bang-up hand with amazing cards they are rewarded with more cards after they play them all. Because of this, being able to use your full hand is almost always advantageous, because it gives you more cards to use. Which leads to the theory that playing all the cards of a house is just the better strategy most of the time, which is less about strategy and more about efficiently draining your hand and drawing more cards.
The absolute worst part of this comes near the end of the game. When your opponent is about to win and you are searching for a solution. The reason MtG is one of my favorite games of all time is because it combines luck with skill here like no other. Your opponent is about to win and you draw the card you need to make something happen. But it's only as good as what you've already played and what is in your hand: you've planned for this moment, and hoped for it, and everything comes together with that one draw to secure you the game. Keyforge, unfortunately, has nothing like this. The fact that you draw at the end of your turn instead of the beginning completely hampers this. Did your opponent just make an incredible move? Do you have no answers to this? Well, tough luck because you have to wait an entire extra turn to draw more cards in hope of having a response, because of the way that drawing works. And, on top of that, the more random cards you burn here gives you more chances to draw the cards you need to respond. So not only can you do absolutely nothing about it the turn after an amazing play by your opponent (assuming you don't have the cards needed), you will likely need to make a sub-optimal play in order to hope for finding an answer later.
I realize this is all part of the strategy of the game, but it becomes more of a hand management game than a card interaction game, at least to me.
I really want to like Keyforge, and hopefully my brain will just adapt to a playstyle that is effective for it, but presently its more frustrating than fun to me. I'd love some advice on proper play, because, despite my best efforts, I'm playing this like Magic, and it is just not working.
It really all boils down to the draw system. I hate it. I hate having to use cards to get more cards. Frequently, I'll have very situational cards that I don't want to discard but I don't want to use at the present time. Keyforge forces the player to just sit on these, and punishes them by not allowing me to draw more cards. I probably need to bite the bullet and just discard these, but it goes against my better judgment 9 times out of ten. Additionally, if someone gets a bang-up hand with amazing cards they are rewarded with more cards after they play them all. Because of this, being able to use your full hand is almost always advantageous, because it gives you more cards to use. Which leads to the theory that playing all the cards of a house is just the better strategy most of the time, which is less about strategy and more about efficiently draining your hand and drawing more cards.
The absolute worst part of this comes near the end of the game. When your opponent is about to win and you are searching for a solution. The reason MtG is one of my favorite games of all time is because it combines luck with skill here like no other. Your opponent is about to win and you draw the card you need to make something happen. But it's only as good as what you've already played and what is in your hand: you've planned for this moment, and hoped for it, and everything comes together with that one draw to secure you the game. Keyforge, unfortunately, has nothing like this. The fact that you draw at the end of your turn instead of the beginning completely hampers this. Did your opponent just make an incredible move? Do you have no answers to this? Well, tough luck because you have to wait an entire extra turn to draw more cards in hope of having a response, because of the way that drawing works. And, on top of that, the more random cards you burn here gives you more chances to draw the cards you need to respond. So not only can you do absolutely nothing about it the turn after an amazing play by your opponent (assuming you don't have the cards needed), you will likely need to make a sub-optimal play in order to hope for finding an answer later.
I realize this is all part of the strategy of the game, but it becomes more of a hand management game than a card interaction game, at least to me.
I really want to like Keyforge, and hopefully my brain will just adapt to a playstyle that is effective for it, but presently its more frustrating than fun to me. I'd love some advice on proper play, because, despite my best efforts, I'm playing this like Magic, and it is just not working.
I play both games and I'm not seeing that particular criticism, because it's a similar effect -- you could keep 5 cards and draw the 6th card you needed at the end of your turn, or in Magic you could draw it at the start of your turn. There may be a psychological factor because you like seeing the card at the start of your turn, but either way it's a new random card that goes with other cards you chose to keep.
You are correct, don't play this like Magic.
First, in terms of your drawing, it's amazing because you reshuffle your deck when you run out. Need an answer and you know you've already played it? Many times the correct turn is dump as many of your cards as possible. Have a super powerful card but don't need to use it right now? Chuck it, it can come up again.
Secondly, board control isn't necessarily as important as one might think. It's only important in two cases: can my opponent produce consistently more aember than me OR can my opponent shut down my ability to forge a key. That's it. Don't fight in the vast majority of other cases, simply reap. it's not a combat game.
Finally, hand in hand with the above, if you know you have no answers and the opponent has or will easily be able to produce more aember than you, sometimes the best option is to race. I have a great deck that is essentially a goldfish: it does not interact with the opp AT ALL, but it can goldfish 3 keys faster than most decks. Thus it wins against the vast majority of non shadows decks.
Hopefully those tips can help change your mindset and you can start enjoying it more!
Well you don't know what your opponent is going to do their next turn -- which informs whether or not you want to try to draw more cards at the end of your turn to find an answer or not. This would absolutely affect things. You always can know whether or not you lost during the opponent's turn without you even having to take yours, because of the end-of-turn draw mechanic. I find this unsatisfying.
I think I'm playing too many decks I simply do not like. Probably need to commit to one.
Well you don't know what your opponent is going to do their next turn -- which informs whether or not you want to try to draw more cards at the end of your turn to find an answer or not. This would absolutely affect things. You always can know whether or not you lost during the opponent's turn without you even having to take yours, because of the end-of-turn draw mechanic. I find this unsatisfying.
I think I'm playing too many decks I simply do not like. Probably need to commit to one.
Thanks, this is good advice. I definitely need to be discarding more. Hoarding situational cards is a bad habit.
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this is why archiving is REALLY powerful
it gets powerful but situational cards out of your hand for future use
i mean, you can't choose what decks you get, but if you find this situation annoying i'd suggest you try to play decks with good archiving
Expansion - Age of Ascension
an expansion has been announced
the age of ascension
no new houses but new cards in each house, while simultaneously a large number of cards in each house are cycled out
new keywords include alpha and omega which are cards you may only play as the first/last thing you're doing during your play/use cards phase and deploy which are creatures that may enter anywhere in your battleline (typically giving bonuses to their neighbours)
mavericks will still be around but a new type of card is legacy cards, which are cards that have been cycled out but which you can get in your deck anyway
a new starter set for $25, which includes two random decks and tokens, and no standardized starter decks. this time around stun and power tokens are actual tokens rather than useless cards
i think those are the most important bullet points. examples of new cards are given in the link above
the age of ascension
no new houses but new cards in each house, while simultaneously a large number of cards in each house are cycled out
new keywords include alpha and omega which are cards you may only play as the first/last thing you're doing during your play/use cards phase and deploy which are creatures that may enter anywhere in your battleline (typically giving bonuses to their neighbours)
mavericks will still be around but a new type of card is legacy cards, which are cards that have been cycled out but which you can get in your deck anyway
a new starter set for $25, which includes two random decks and tokens, and no standardized starter decks. this time around stun and power tokens are actual tokens rather than useless cards
i think those are the most important bullet points. examples of new cards are given in the link above
Man I just got the starter kit a week back too! This sucks. :P
well at least you have the starter decks!
i'm going to use mine for the first time on saturday when my sister and her boyfriend are coming over to try the game
I just tried the game out recently with the starter decks, and I really liked it. Now I'm tempted to grab that expansion starter as well.
I wasn't feeling it much at first, but once you start chaining together cards to mess with your opponents aember then it got interesting.
I wasn't feeling it much at first, but once you start chaining together cards to mess with your opponents aember then it got interesting.
OP
OP
Ahhhhh... yeah... I hear you.
But now you own the first starter set ever! Whoooooo!
:-(
here's one thought about the new alpha and omega keywords: if each deck tends to come with a few cards with these, it'd make pulling off the infinite library access combo quite a bit harder
Kind of wish there was more to this expansion. Stealing is still too strong, imo and unless they really change the meta I don't see that changing. Alpha and Omega are a clever way for things to "cost" more and have more impactful effects, and I like deploy.
Was hoping we'd get a new house or maybe some hybrid houses. Still in, but wish there was a little more to it. I guess time will tell.
Was hoping we'd get a new house or maybe some hybrid houses. Still in, but wish there was a little more to it. I guess time will tell.
Personally I'd rather play on a table than on a foldable paper poster though. Isn't that what they are?
it depends on what cards are cycled in and out
a lot of people are complaining about bait and switch, and one of the new cards looks like a replacement but CONSIDERABLY weaker
so if bait and switch is cycled out that'd do a lot to balance it better in players' mind
(though i don't mind bait and switch personally. i think it's a fun card both to use and to play against.)
the card i'm thinking of that could be a replacement to bait and switch is swindle: steal 3, with alpha and omega
Yeah, Bait and Switch is killer. I don't *hate* it, but I'd be lying if it didn't completely screwed me a few times lol. But being on the attacking end of a perfect Bait and Siwtch is great.
A card like Swindle could definitely replace it. Like I said I think Alpha and Omega can go a long way to retain these super strong cards but effectively not allowing them in (play-card based) combos.
I see that they've resolved our Pitlord question from earlier in the thread.
Cannot takes precedent: you can't chose Dis. In this case, "You must choose Dis" is simply ignored.
Cannot takes precedent: you can't chose Dis. In this case, "You must choose Dis" is simply ignored.
Keyforge Rulebook said:
Finally got to play my first game last night with a friend. The Starter set is still sold out everywhere I look, so just used two off-the-shelf packs. Paperclips for damage tokens, and chocolate coins for Aember (which further incentivised creating keys). When it came to Stunning creatures, all we did was turn the card upside-down, no need for a token.
My deck was Mars/Shadow/Sanctum, and had a bit of a slow start compared to my friend who had Mars/Logos/Dis and ended up a Key ahead of me before I even had any Aember harvested.
I managed to swing the tide though, by having two Crystal Hives in play along with two Mindwarpers. Reaping both of those brought me in 6 Aember each time, and I wiped out her creatures when she approached her second Key using Orbital Bombardment. From there, it was an easy run to getting the remaining two Keys.
I'm pretty happy with the deck I got, and not just because Bait & Switch is in it. I'll obviously pick up some more decks and see how I do with those, and the local gaming store does Keyforge nights, so I'll head along there after I've got a couple more practice games under my belt.
My deck was Mars/Shadow/Sanctum, and had a bit of a slow start compared to my friend who had Mars/Logos/Dis and ended up a Key ahead of me before I even had any Aember harvested.
I managed to swing the tide though, by having two Crystal Hives in play along with two Mindwarpers. Reaping both of those brought me in 6 Aember each time, and I wiped out her creatures when she approached her second Key using Orbital Bombardment. From there, it was an easy run to getting the remaining two Keys.
I'm pretty happy with the deck I got, and not just because Bait & Switch is in it. I'll obviously pick up some more decks and see how I do with those, and the local gaming store does Keyforge nights, so I'll head along there after I've got a couple more practice games under my belt.
That doesn't matter.
Aember doesn't go back where it came from, it goes into opponents' reserve.
A card that has "Creature captures from it's own side" just means "Steal 1, but later"
From the sounds of it, the new Expansion-Starter features more "functional" extra bits, such as smaller tokens for Stuns etc. instead of card-sized ones. I'd say unless you're desperate for tokens now, get your pre-order in for that when you can.
well the reason it matters is for capturing
with two types of amber tokens, one for me and one for my opponent, if someone clears the board and hurriedly rushes all the cards away leaving some amber tokens behind, there's no doubt about who they should go to
so if my opponent uses the action ability of a mindwarper to make one of my creatures capture from my own side, i would move one of MY amber tokens from my identity card into the common supply of amber tokens, and take one of THEIR amber tokens from their common supply and put on the creature of mine he selected to capture from my own side
also makes it easier to clean up afterwards, knowing which tokens belong to whom
I actually didn't realize this is how that worked. I assumed things went back to where they were captured from.
It doesn't matter where captured ember comes from, but it usually comes from the opponent's pool.
When a creature with captured ember leaves play the amber on it always goes back to the opponent's pool, not back into the general supply.
Well I just got my first deck to Power 2 tonight. Anyone else at Power 2 or 3?
https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/b9677faa-8d21-4267-9fa1-07688f1b0ffd
https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/b9677faa-8d21-4267-9fa1-07688f1b0ffd
Unfortunately with something like 10-15 decks purchased, 90% of my decks are bad. Not like average, but BAD. It took me that long to even get a Bait and Switch deck. Meanwhile most everyone locally doesn't want to do the swap format, doesn't want to play sealed, and brings their super competitive decks (with one guy saying that like 4 out of 5 decks he pulled are competitive).
It's super discouraging so I've almost totally given up and gone back to Destiny. I literally can't remember the last time I won a KeyForge game, going something like 0-5 over my last few tournaments or played days.
There's a local guy who even won with 8 starting chains on his deck.
It's super discouraging so I've almost totally given up and gone back to Destiny. I literally can't remember the last time I won a KeyForge game, going something like 0-5 over my last few tournaments or played days.
There's a local guy who even won with 8 starting chains on his deck.
that sucks :/
that's a very different experience from mine. of my 7 decks, 4 are competitive, 2 are decent and only one is bad (less than 50% win rate), and only one of them has bait and switch
you could try posting links to your deck lists here. maybe we'll see something you may have missed in,your decks
Or load them to the Crucible and I'm sure we could practice with you and see if there's anything else going on there?
Shadow is just the best house. If you have a Shadow deck, you have a much higher chance of winning, in my experience. Mars is entirely too situation, and so is Brobnar.
Steal is OP, and always will be until they do something about it.
Steal is OP, and always will be until they do something about it.
i dunno
my two most common houses are shadows and mars with 4 decks containing shadows and 4 decks containing mars. out my 4 decks with shadows 3 are good and out of my 4 decks with mars 3 are good.
the houses seem pretty well balanced to me