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KeyForge by Richard Garfield - The first Unique Deck Game (can't modify decks)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
Yeah, download the rulebook. My friends all had starter decks and the quickstart rules that come with them just aren't that useful.
I'm also told there is a version of the rulebook without all the "flavor text" ... story background and what not. That version will save you some printer ink.
EDIT:
Hey, while I'm here, what's the opinion on Lights Out.
If your opponent has only one creature, the rules make it clear that the card can still be played. What isn't clear is if the opponent's creature gets returned to his hand. I understand that the rules say "play as much of the effect as you can" but is it ok to split an effect like that?
When we played it we decided to return the single creature to the opponent's hand.
I'm also told there is a version of the rulebook without all the "flavor text" ... story background and what not. That version will save you some printer ink.
EDIT:
Hey, while I'm here, what's the opinion on Lights Out.
If your opponent has only one creature, the rules make it clear that the card can still be played. What isn't clear is if the opponent's creature gets returned to his hand. I understand that the rules say "play as much of the effect as you can" but is it ok to split an effect like that?
When we played it we decided to return the single creature to the opponent's hand.
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Be warned that dice are not allowed to be used to track things in organized play.
Yes you do as much as you can, so if only one creature you return that one creature. If he has no creatures you still can play the card for the AEmber.
Unless you're going to a super high level regional, it's a really stupid restriction though. At store tournaments no one cares. In fact, hard sided dice are BETTER than the dinky cardboard circle that slides all over the chain card because the slightest touch can lose the state.
Similarly the ban on clear sleeves is stupid though I understand fears about some high level tournament having people mark card backs instead of sleeves. At a store tournament no one cares.
Clear sleeves allow you to turn cards slightly as well as a form of marking a good card so completely solid opaque backs are the only way to assure no funny business at a glance.
And while we are discussing card specific rulings, anyone want to make an argument for Master of 3 letting you destroy say a power 6 creature that has 3 points of damage? Or a creature with less than 3 power?
The text doesn't say that, but I wouldn't complain about an argument in that direction :p
And while we are discussing card specific rulings, anyone want to make an argument for Master of 3 letting you destroy say a power 6 creature that has 3 points of damage? Or a creature with less than 3 power?
The text doesn't say that, but I wouldn't complain about an argument in that direction :p
I agree with you completely (in fact, my local LGS that is having a keyforge tournament has opted for the opaque sleeve requirement which is annoying), but unfortunately it's Fantasy Flight's call, I guess. The sleeve thing is up to the discretion of the store for local events though.
Ah well. If I ever play a big tournament, which is highly unlikely, I resleeve that particular deck. I specifically got clear backs so I could see the Archons and house and fun names.
A creature's power doesn't reduce with the damage it takes. So Master of 3 can can't hit it (or anything else that doesn't have exactly 3 power)
Yeah, for some reason my local game store gave me the whole spiel about clear sleaves when I asked what size sleaves they take.
If people are willing to cheat marking cards, they could also cheat marking sleeves -- it just makes it more difficult. Either way, no one should care in casual.
If FFG cared about the sleeves, they shouldn't have developed a game where every deck back has a cool, unique picture and unique name.
I wonder if anyone has ever used some invisible mark that would show up with special glasses. Probably.
my two decks are both quite weak. i see online many people complaining that their decks are bad, but mine are worse in almost every case
yet, and still, i really love playing with them against randos online. often they get trounced, but sometimes i get just the cards i need to make a great comeback and win, or at least offer up a decent fight
i have to adapt my tactics all the time to have a chance with these decks and it's actually really fun. i've found out how to do the most with my shitty decks and i sort of love them, lol
a very tricky thing with these decks is that they both contain a lot of very situational cards. so i need to find the right balance between discarding cards (or using them only for ember bonus or at non-optimal times) to refill my deck or risk holding onto them for that perfect moment that may take way too long to come, making them dead weight in my hand in the meantime
it's quite an interesting challenge
yet, and still, i really love playing with them against randos online. often they get trounced, but sometimes i get just the cards i need to make a great comeback and win, or at least offer up a decent fight
i have to adapt my tactics all the time to have a chance with these decks and it's actually really fun. i've found out how to do the most with my shitty decks and i sort of love them, lol
a very tricky thing with these decks is that they both contain a lot of very situational cards. so i need to find the right balance between discarding cards (or using them only for ember bonus or at non-optimal times) to refill my deck or risk holding onto them for that perfect moment that may take way too long to come, making them dead weight in my hand in the meantime
it's quite an interesting challenge
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One of my decks has a card that let's me look at the opponents hand and make them discard one sanctum card, haha.
Even if they don't have sanctum it gives me a strong heads up on hand information.
imperial traitor
i have that one too, though i'd prefer to have it in my other deck
one amber on play makes it decent, and it can really help on occasion to to see my opponent's hand to plan my next move, i agree
Oh, forgot it was also one amber on play. I love that there aren't really dead cards. The only thing that's come close to that is Hand of Dis if they only have one or two creatures out.
First game I played we misplayed that because I assumed that a single creature couldn't possibly be on a flank!
upgrade cards can be completely dead in some situations since they can't be played at all (even for associated aember gain) without a creature to attach them to
my worst deck has three update cards in a house with only three creatures, two of which are really weak
if i don't have any creatures in play at all and none of the creatures in that house in hand, i can't play them
so my options are:
1. on the rare occasion i have both creatures of this house and upgrades on hand, play creature and then upgrade and wait until next turn before i can actually use my upgraded creature. since they're weak, they likely won't still be there by then
2. play creature in other house, next turn play upgrades on that creature, next turn use upgraded creature, which means the opponent must be nice enough to leave my creature in play for two entire turns before i get a chance to use it upgraded
it's a good thing the deck has one mack the knife (which can be used even when i didn't call his house). IF the opponent leaves him alive for one turn, at least i can upgrade him and subsequently use him on the same turn
i did win one game today where the opponent gave me a win with a spectacularly mistimed play. they played key hammer (dis, gives 1 amber, Play: If your opponent forged a key on their previous turn, unforge it. Your opponent gains 6 amber.) presumably to earn one amber. only, i hadn't made a key last turn, so hello six free amber, lol
Quick "Fight" ?: If two creatures attack one enemy, does the enemy creature deal its damage to both attacking creatures, or just one?
If you're talking about 'fight with', my understanding is that the creature you 'fight with' fights first, and the creature with the 'fight with' text fights second. SO if the first fight resolves with the death of the creature, the second fight doesn't take place.
Yup. No 2 decks are exactly the same or usually in a single players case, remotely similar.
I only have the two decks and my buddy's two decks as reference so it's hard to judge the spread. All four of our decks seems to have a ton of creature kill and a lot of my upgrades are useful that can go on any creature from my three houses. One of his cards destroys all creatures above 3 power and another destroys all 3 power or below, both in the same deck haha.
What upgrades are you talking about in that one deck, you can play upgrades on creatures outside of that house.
I would have figured clear sleeves would be better for a game like this. The card back is a quick way to ensure the deck isn't modified. Dang cheaters.
Fights don't happen simultaneously, it's not like magic. Every action you do involves just one thing. Resolve it, then do the next thing.
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That's two different "Fight" actions. Resolve the first Fight action before you declare and resolve the second.
Yes, a creature will normally deal damage back to the attacker each time it's attacked.
here is the deck in question:
Hutton D. Razorcock, the Third
the problem is that the upgrades are rocket boots and transposition boots which grant a fight/reap ability and an action ability respectively. in other words, i have to use the creature for the upgrades to have any effect. playing the upgrade on a non-logos creature means i can't get any use of the upgrade until next turn. since the abilities granted by the upgrades are quite useful it's unlikely the creature who gets it will live that long because my opponent will prioritize killing them. and since i have only three logos creatures in the deck (of which two are quite squishy) it's very unlikely i'll have logos creatures already in play when i draw the upgrades. (having logos creatures or mack the knife already in play when i play the upgrades would be the only way to make use of the upgrade in the same turn i play it)
realistically, playing the upgrade just to make one of my creatures into a must-kill can be a good idea in and of itself to make my opponent waste time and resources going after them
the deck is just weird. the logos side is just weak overall. the only good cards are the instant damage dealers and mother. the rest don't synergize well and the lack of library access hurts a lot. wild wormhole is VERY risky in this deck since around ~5 could REALLY hurt me if they come out at the wrong time, and another handful could help my opponent more than myself at the wrong time, though maybe not catastrophically
the brobnar side is decent with two board clearers, tremor to stall my opponent while hoping to draw something good and some decent artifacts. but only having four creatures (and relatively weak ones by brobnar standards, though with good play effects) hurts a lot since it's a house that really likes to fight. it's rare that i make more than one or two ember from warsong for this reason. IF i have all the artifacts out though and IF my opponent's side is clear (thanks to the board clearers) i can get a few quick reaps in with the gauntlets of command which helps me catch up
the shadow side is the only strong part of the deck. bait and switch is great, a couple of units with fight abilities to steal synchronizes well with the "ready and fight with" cards on the brobnar side. shadow self helps keep squishier units alive. mack the knife is cool if he gets to live. the only bummer iz that i don't have a no-brainer target for pawn sacrifice, except for the research smoko in logos. i use it sometimes to kill a wounded brobnar creature with a good "play" ability if the deck is close to a reshuffle
playing this deck is very tricky but fun. it has some cards that are great at certain moments (board clearers plus bait and switch) but which can be useless dead weight if drawn to early. IF i get a chance to reap with ganymede archivist to put those situational cards into my archives, that could help a lot
curious if anyone has any ideas what to do with this deck. the only synergies that jump out at me are elusive creatures + shadow self in shadows, pawn sacrifice plus + research smoko (very rarely do i get the chance), transposition sandals + mack the knife (again, rare and takes time and luck to set up) and brobnar ready and fight with cards either with brobnar creature or with dodger and umbra in shadows
Which is good for a casual tournament, since it makes it obvious if any cards were swapped without requiring extensive deck checks.
you'll never have two of your own creatures fighting simultaneously as far as i'm aware. if you have multiple creatures in play, you may first fight with one, resolve damage and any fight abilities, and then (if you wish) move on your next creature to repeat the process if any enemies remain. note that your creatures' "fight:" and "before fight:" abilities only resolve when they are used to attack by you on your turn and not when they are targeted by your opponent's creatures' attacks on your opponent's turn. additionally, "fight:" abilities only resolve if the attacking creature with such abilities survives the fight
i think you have misunderstood. you are talking about creatures like ganger chieftain and sergeant zakiel, that have "you may ready and fight with a neighboring creature" abilities, correct?
they are confusing because the english language is ambiguous. "fight with X" can mean either "fight against X", or "fight together with X", or "fight using X". in keyforge, the third meaning is intended. so sergeant zekiel that has "play: you may ready and fight with a neighboring creature" works like this: when you play it, should you wish, you may ready its neighbor (in case it's exhausted) and if you do, fight with it. (you may also fight with it should it already be ready.) it doesn't matter whether this neighbor is in the declared house or not. it can still fight. if you choose to ready the neighbor, you HAVE to fight with it, if there is anyone to fight. if there's no one to fight, the creature is now ready and can be used to reap or use an action ability, but only if it's in the declared house. (the ability allows you to FIGHT with a creature in another house but not do anything else. however, IF the readied creature is in the declared house and IF there is no enemy to fight this creature is now readied to be used as any ready creature in the declared house, for e.g. reaping.) (also, ready and fight with abilities can also be used to un-stun a stunned creature, but i don't know the exact details of how this works.) (yes, these cards are incredibly confusing, lol.)
Yes, those two cards. I don't see how a neighboring card can reap when the card specifically states "Fight," though. There is nothing that states same/off house on these cards, either.
And for clarification you can attack a different creature with the neighboring unit if the first targeted creature is destroyed?
hydrophilic attack Yeah I see what you mean with that Logos side. Rocket Boots would pair nicely with Transposition Sandals though if you had anything survive more than a turn. I can't say that is normal for the games I've played since it was pretty rare for creatures to survive more than one or two turns.
it's because of the "do as much as you can rule"
let's say you start your turn with an empty board both on your side and on the opponent's side
you declare brobnar. you play firespitter and it enters play exhausted (all creatures and artifacts enter play exhausted unless otherwise specified). then you play ganger chieftain and it enters play (exhausted) next to the firespitter. as the ganger chieftan enters play, its "play" ability resolves: "you may ready and fight with a neighboring creature"
you choose to do it. the first part of the ability is to ready the neighboring creature, so you ready your firespitter. the next part is to fight, but there are no enemies to fight so this part doesn't happen. the play ability of the ganger chieftain is now resolved. since you never fought with the firespitter (because there was no one left to fight) it remains ready and can be used to reap since it's a brobnar creature and you declared brobnar for this turn.
you may disagree by saying: "since the card said ready and fight, and i couldn't follow it all, none of it should have been done" to which i respond by referring you to a passage from the rule book:
If an ability includes the word "may," the text that follows "may" is
optional. If a player chooses to resolve a "may" ability, the player must
resolve as much of the ability as they are able
in other words, if you're instructed to "ready and fight" but are only able to ready and not fight, you still do the part you're able to do, which is to ready the creature
nothing on the card states on/off house, correct, but all cards referring to "a friendly creature" can affect any of your creatures, regardless of whether you declared their house or not. so regardless of whether the creature that's affected by the ganger chieftain's play ability is brobnar or not, if you choose to resolve the ability you'll ready it (unless it's already ready) and then try to fight with it. if no enemy is present it can't fight and remains ready. you'll now be able to reap with it if it's a brobnar creature since you declared brobnar. if it's not a brobnar creature you won't be able to reap, because (in most situations) you can't reap with a creature in an off house even if it is ready.
"ready and fight with" has been clarified to work this way in an official ruling by brad andres, designer at FFG: https://sites.google.com/view/archonslibraryaccess/faq-rulings/a/anger
i don't understand this question. can you clarify? what "different" creature? what "first targeted" creature? only your already present neighboring creature fights after ganger chieftain enters play. the target you choose for this fight is the only target. (the ganger chieftain does not fight itself if this is what has you confused. the only one that is readied and allowed to fight as a result of ganger chieftain being played is ganger chieftain's neighbor. the ganger chieftain itself does not fight
my best shot at making those upgrades stick is placing the creature i want to attach it to next to the shadow self. that gives it quite a bit longer to live
i just played my two decks against each other, and somehow this deck managed to win over my other one which i consider much stronger, lol, though it was very close. it's punching above its weight when it gets lucky with the cards it draws. i think an important reason it sometimes does well is that so many if its cards are artifacts. it gives the deck a really slow start, but as long as those artifacts remain in play, they will both help you out on subsequent turns and reduce the deck size from 36 to 30, meaning it can draw back creatures, wipes and action cards more quickly. so the longer the game goes, the better it does
anyway, this is the deck that lost:
"Bilgewater" Arvir, Landing Strip Bard
both on paper and in practice it should be a much stronger deck. i did make some mistakes though, when playing it
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The first part makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
As for the second part, I'm reading "ready and fight with" as both fight. And thanks for the link.
I played both starter decks by myself to learn the game, so I'm sure once I play with others who have played before, I'll get a better sense of the card nuances.
i'm pretty sure that reading is incorrect. as i said before, "fight with X" is very ambiguous in english and can mean one of three different things:
1. "fight against X"
2. "fight alongside X"
3. "fight, using X"
i'm pretty sure number 3 is intended here, meaning that only the neighbour to ganger chieftain readies and fights as a result of ganger chieftain entering play
So I got 2 decks in the mail this morning, really wanted a deck with Sanctum in it and got one. Looking forward to playing with them tonight. These are the decks:
Olimpio R. Tomocafather, the Third
Leftmaker, the Monk of the Sanctuary
Olimpio R. Tomocafather, the Third
Leftmaker, the Monk of the Sanctuary
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You would get a horseman deck out of 2 decks lol. With an Arise, very nice. And the other deck with double arise.
Yeah pretty happy with the Horseman deck. Going to try play it with SW: Destiny tokens tonight, might get s starter set for keys though.
I've never seen a Keyforge deck out in the wild, but my girlfriend found some and bought two.
We're playing tomorrow and I can't wait :D
We're playing tomorrow and I can't wait :D
For those who still need tokens, these work pretty well for amber: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDMLC68/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Those or the smooth glass gems usually used as vase fillers if you can't take the edge lol. You can get Amber colored ones from any craft store for ~$4.
I don't know about those particular plastic tokens from Amazon but I've seen something similar that end up having VERY sharp edges. I haven't used sleeves yet for KeyForge and I wouldn't want those tokens anywhere near my cards because of accidental marking.
Also, the really huge plastic tokens with odd shapes are actually very annoying to count for your opponent since they're big and kind of blur together crowded on your archon card.
Also, the really huge plastic tokens with odd shapes are actually very annoying to count for your opponent since they're big and kind of blur together crowded on your archon card.
Thematically the chunky amber colored ones are neat, but I know exactly what you're talking about for sharp edges. I've used similar filler for some board games.
Depending on how those are cast there can be small nubs where they have a very sharp point. Probably fine if you sleeved cards though.