KeyForge by Richard Garfield - The first Unique Deck Game (can't modify decks)

[Timeaisis]

i dunno

my two most common houses are shadows and mars with 4 decks containing shadows and 4 decks containing mars. out my 4 decks with shadows 3 are good and out of my 4 decks with mars 3 are good.

the houses seem pretty well balanced to me

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I mean, I definitely have decks without shadow that are good. I just feel the Steal mechanic has no obvious counter unlike some other mechanics of other houses. My hope for the expansion is the introduce some kind of counter-steal thing.

Obviously, this is just based on my own experience. I have 6 decks, and a buddy of mine has about 8 and we rotate between them whenever we play. Shadow decks seem to be in the top tier. Shadow decks with Bait and Switch especially lol.

My favorite card in the game, though is in Dis. Without a doubt it's...Drumble

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I mean, I definitely have decks without shadow that are good. I just feel the Steal mechanic has no obvious counter unlike some other mechanics of other houses. My hope for the expansion is the introduce some kind of counter-steal thing.

Obviously, this is just based on my own experience. I have 6 decks, and a buddy of mine has about 8 and we rotate between them whenever we play. Shadow decks seem to be in the top tier. Shadow decks with Bait and Switch especially lol.

My favorite card in the game, though is in Dis. Without a doubt it's...Drumble

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the way i see it, there are three main ways to win the game, and each of this archetypes are able to win against strong shadows steal if strong enough

1. if you can't beat them, join them. a bit lame maybe, but one way to beat a deck with strong steal is to steal all your lost amber right back

2. racing. a good amber rush deck can make amber so fast that with just a little bit of stall (say a well-timed ether spider) not even a deck with strong shadows can keep up. cards that allow forging out of turn make such decks even stronger

3. opponent lockdown through hand and turn control. a deck that's good at controlling your opponent can shut them out regardless of strategy. cards like control the weak and scrambler storm can prevent them from stealing on turns where you go above 6 to call check to make a key. if they're holding their swingy steal cards for just the right moment, cards that force them to discard can be effective as well. i personally find this kind of deck more difficult to beat than steal decks

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Well I just got my first deck to Power 2 tonight. Anyone else at Power 2 or 3?


https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/b9677faa-8d21-4267-9fa1-07688f1b0ffd

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I just got into this game and I love it, as a long time Magic player.

How do you track your deck's wins and progress this way??

 

[Deleted member 733]

Chainbound seems like a weird concept to me. One local person went 0-3, got no chains. Someone else finally got a chain with his deck, then lost it again. As I mentioned almost all of my decks seem very weak (both in terms of playing them and in terms of analysis tool(s)). Meanwhile other people have like 7-8 chains on their deck.

I just want to try sealed or a deck exchange format some time. :(

 

[Deleted member 29293]

I don't understand your point. The op decks get chains as it is a drawback, not the weak decks.

 

[Deleted member 733]

I don't understand your point. The op decks get chains as it is a drawback, not the weak decks.

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That's what I'm saying. I've been told by someone local that I should play because otherwise I can't earn chains, and there are tournaments that I'll never be allowed to participate in unless I get a bunch of chains.

However, if none of my decks are strong enough to earn chains, then all I'm earning is whatever prize they give for 0-3 or 1-2, which isn't likely to be anything decent since the good prizes will likely be chosen by the people who ALSO have the best decks, who will be trying to power up already-strong decks. :P This is also happening to a couple other local players, not just me.

Basically it seems like a format aimed at people who have very strong decks who want to go to stronger tournaments, and the advice a local guy tells me is "well you should trade for a strong deck or just buy one off eBay", which basically comes to a netdeck situation. That's exactly what I wanted to avoid, and exactly what I feel like KeyForge was intended to avoid, so it makes me sad.


I want people to play random decks, or I want both players to get to play the same deck, rather than people bringing a Logos combo deck from eBay or a triple Control the Weak + Restringuntus deck (which someone local has).

 

[xclk07]

...or a triple Control the Weak + Restringuntus deck (which someone local has).

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Which doesn't work anymore thanks to the last (or previous to last?) rules update.

I somewhat hear you, the second it is demonstrably true that this becomes simply "Lootbox The Game" or flat out Pay To Win, then I'm out. However, I do expect SOME monetary investment in any card game. Maybe it was simply luck, but within the first ten decks I had, I was able to get two "fine to good" decks that I could pull some wins with in my local stores. That's only $100 and some of those were from sealed events. If one wanted to play Magic.... well.... it's a liiiiiiiittle more than $100 to have decently competitive decks!

Granted, maybe you got the short end of the stick and maybe the 8 decks you pulled are super crap. That could absolutely happen. Would you not want to invest say, $30 to grab a good deck online to play in your local meta? Still a super effective cost proposition compared to other things!
(And I mentioned before, load your decks on Crucible and I'm sure some of us would be happy to play with/against them to see if there are things you could be doing differently).

Finally, zethren there's a mobile app to download where you scan in your decks and use for the chainbound tournies.

 

[Deleted member 733]

Which doesn't work anymore thanks to the last (or previous to last?) rules update.

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Control the Weak still works, and you can still lose to Restringuntus, just not together. That deck didn't win because of a single-turn lockout in the vast majority of cases -- it won because you would effectively skip turns (I believe Richard Garfield has actually said he considers skipping a turn effectively to be losing the game), or because of an artifact recur mechanic which made it possible to lock you over infinite turns instead of over one turn.

And yeah if I get time some time I may try my decks online to see if anyone has advice.

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Which doesn't work anymore thanks to the last (or previous to last?) rules update.

I somewhat hear you, the second it is demonstrably true that this becomes simply "Lootbox The Game" or flat out Pay To Win, then I'm out. However, I do expect SOME monetary investment in any card game. Maybe it was simply luck, but within the first ten decks I had, I was able to get two "fine to good" decks that I could pull some wins with in my local stores. That's only $100 and some of those were from sealed events. If one wanted to play Magic.... well.... it's a liiiiiiiittle more than $100 to have decently competitive decks!

Granted, maybe you got the short end of the stick and maybe the 8 decks you pulled are super crap. That could absolutely happen. Would you not want to invest say, $30 to grab a good deck online to play in your local meta? Still a super effective cost proposition compared to other things!
(And I mentioned before, load your decks on Crucible and I'm sure some of us would be happy to play with/against them to see if there are things you could be doing differently).

Finally, zethren there's a mobile app to download where you scan in your decks and use for the chainbound tournies.

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Thanks! Is it the official app?

 

[Timeaisis]

The chain system is dumb. I think Keyforge is at its strongest with sealed tournaments. Yes, someone gets lucky and gets a good deck, but I mean is the alternative really any better?

And, for the record, you can build a competitive MTG deck for around $20 if you are clever. I've done it before. Won like 3 months of FNM in a row with a homemade $20 mono red rushdown and had another streak with a cheapo version of a netdeck that I swapped out the expensive cards with something cheaper.

 

[Lothars]

I'm excited it looks like i will have my decks today, Does anyone have a playmat they would recommend?

 

[xclk07]

Thanks! Is it the official app?

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Yes.

 

[Deleted member 41638]

I think the gameplay mechanics are nice but I have two big complaints.

Can't do anything during opponents turn - This removes a huge amount of strategy from card games in general, there's no extra defense or tricks up your sleeve.

No deck editing - I get this is a big part of the appeal but at the same time it sucks that you can buy decks that are just clearly poorly made. I saw one that had the card that returned all Niffle Monkeys from play or graveyard to your hand but there was only 1 Niffle Monkey in the deck, so it's pretty much a wasted card.

 

[Starviper]

Do you recommend picking up the starter set or is it better to just grab some decks individually?

 

[Lothars]

Do you recommend picking up the starter set or is it better to just grab some decks individually?

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It depends if you can find a starter set and want the starter decks to learn than I would go for that since it comes with two decks as well and it comes with tokens otherwise just pick up individual decks. I picked up some decks and am planning to grab the expansion start deck.

 

[Timeaisis]

Do you recommend picking up the starter set or is it better to just grab some decks individually?

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If you are familiar with card games, you don't need to get the starter set. However, if you want the official Keyforge tokens, then it provides them all. There are too many damn tokens in this game lol. Damage, aember, chains, keys, stun, power...

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Yes.

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Much appreciated :)

I'm looking forward to digging more into this game.

 

[Timeaisis]

I think the gameplay mechanics are nice but I have two big complaints.

Can't do anything during opponents turn - This removes a huge amount of strategy from card games in general, there's no extra defense or tricks up your sleeve.

No deck editing - I get this is a big part of the appeal but at the same time it sucks that you can buy decks that are just clearly poorly made. I saw one that had the card that returned all Niffle Monkeys from play or graveyard to your hand but there was only 1 Niffle Monkey in the deck, so it's pretty much a wasted card.

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My biggest complaint is still the draw system -- I had a post about it earlier, but yea not being able to "interrupt" is kind of part of that in a way, because you can't be as reactionary to your opponent because 1) no interrupts 2) no drawing at the beginning of your turn to be able to respond. Instead, you are thinking like multiple turns ahead and frequently have to plan for worst case before it happens by holding onto specific cards (which reduces the number of usable cards in your hand), unlike, say Magic, where you can respond to threats as they happen, and don't have to "save" a set of cards for future threats as much, because you are drawing every turn guaranteed.

I wish you could deck edit. And not like a lot. I'm thinking a very simple sideboard-style system where you get like 4-5 card leeway with decks, swapping in a few here and there. Issue here is in this game one card addition to a deck can completely change the power, but I mean, there are already really strong decks that are randomly generated, so I don't see the harm in allowing players to improve their less than stellar decks.

I think a decent solution to this could be a "restricted cards" list, but not in the traditional sense. As in, these cards are too strong to allow sideboarding. Bait and Switch, Restringus, Drumble, Chota, The Sting stuff like that are good examples of these, since they can synergize so well with combos you could easily edit them into a deck and create something super powerful. So don't allow those. But if you want to swap out some crappy Mars creature for another Mothergun, go nuts.

 

[TheYanger]

I mean, the reason you're not drawing every turn is BECAUSE you're holding random threats, though.

And 'restricted' cards exist already, there are tons of cards you can't get more than one of, or you can't get in certain combinations, it doesn't have to be printed anywhere because those restrictions exist in the deckbuilding process itself.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I think the key to enjoy this game is to approach it as a casual game. Yes, people will likely bring crazy powerful decks to tournaments. So then, don't primarily play in tournaments. I play casually with a friend, but mostly just random casual games on the crucible online. Most people don't use crazy powerful decks on there, in my experience. I'm able to get wins with all of my 7 random decks in the crucible online casual games. None of those 7 are very strong; some are even kind of weak

 

[Deleted member 733]

I think the key to enjoy this game is to approach it as a casual game. Yes, people will likely bring crazy powerful decks to tournaments. So then, don't primarily play in tournaments. I play casually with a friend, but mostly just random casual games on the crucible online. Most people don't use crazy powerful decks on there, in my experience. I'm able to get wins with all of my 7 random decks in the crucible online casual games. None of those 7 are very strong; some are even kind of weak

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I might enjoy doing that if I had the real life opportunity. I still just want to try the swap deck format and maybe a sealed, though at this rate it's looking like sealed won't happen until next set.

 

[cirr]

the initial announcement of keyforge caught my notice and i'd been reading this thread intermittently since launch. i used to be big into mtg from fallen empires through the urza's block then picked it up here and there. finally i bought a couple of decks and had a couple of matches playing against friends. i'm hooked bad. my first two decks are pretty good but the newest one is formidable if it gets rolling. crucible.online matches can be hit or miss but the ability to queue up anytime from the comfort of my own home is ridiculously appealing. i know i'll have to go to store matches for chains and such and will probably have to get to it next month at some point.

 

[PanzerKraken]

I think the key to enjoy this game is to approach it as a casual game. Yes, people will likely bring crazy powerful decks to tournaments. So then, don't primarily play in tournaments. I play casually with a friend, but mostly just random casual games on the crucible online. Most people don't use crazy powerful decks on there, in my experience. I'm able to get wins with all of my 7 random decks in the crucible online casual games. None of those 7 are very strong; some are even kind of weak

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That's what I've done, just bought a few decks, we play casually, but no way in hell will I get too involved in this game cause winning can clearly be purely about luck of the deck you pull. We've already had in our small circle playing it a couple decks that just are insanely good and most can't beat em, but it's all casual so we just toss some chains on or choose to play other decks instead. I've for sure got 2 decks that I think absolutely blow, the card combos in them do not mesh at all and so many glaring weaknesses.

 

[DarthSpider]

I think the key to enjoy this game is to approach it as a casual game. Yes, people will likely bring crazy powerful decks to tournaments. So then, don't primarily play in tournaments. I play casually with a friend, but mostly just random casual games on the crucible online. Most people don't use crazy powerful decks on there, in my experience. I'm able to get wins with all of my 7 random decks in the crucible online casual games. None of those 7 are very strong; some are even kind of weak

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This is a good philosophy for me. I have 6 decks plus the two starter decks and when my friends and I play we just grab random decks and go. I do have a Mars/Logos/Shadows deck that is undefeated so far after about 10 games with three different people using it, so I'm keeping a special eye on that one. But overall I'm really enjoying the low buy-in and casual experience of it.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Some important card errata have been announced in time for the new set. The wording on bait and switch has subtly been changed to no longer allow stealing more than a maximum of 2 aember.

Library access has been changed to purge itself after being played, so that you can no longer recur it in the same turn you played it in order to draw your entire decks, which will remove certain overly powerful combos from the game

 

[xclk07]

Some important card errata have been announced in time for the new set. The wording on bait and switch has subtly been changed to no longer allow stealing more than a maximum of 2 aember.

Library access has been changed to purge itself after being played, so that you can no longer recur it in the same turn you played it in order to draw your entire decks, which will remove certain overly powerful combos from the game

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I think these changes are quite good and signify a good long-term thought to the game. Excited for AOA!

 

[ilikesanta]

Those are some big nerfs. Not saying it's a bad thing.

 

[1upsuper]

Am I better off getting into the game with the first starter kit, the second one, or just some decks from among the two sets?

 

[Lothars]

Am I better off getting into the game with the first starter kit, the second one, or just some decks from among the two sets?

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Depending. The nice thing about the first starter set you get two starter decks and two random decks. The second starter is just two random decks and both sets come with tokens. Or you can find tokens online and just buy decks from both

 

[Modest Mauser]

Am I better off getting into the game with the first starter kit, the second one, or just some decks from among the two sets?

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The second one. For the price of two decks you get two decks plus the tokens you need to play. The first one is twice the price and all you get for the extra $20 is two "tutorial" decks you will use exactly once and never again, probably not even that because the game's rules are simple enough anyway.

 

[butzopower]

Managed to flood my opponents hand with Mars creatures with Hysteria after reaping with Tezmal to not allow them Mars next turn. Then I played Tezmal again and they actually couldn't get rid of it and were stuck with only Mars cards in hand and me with a reap ability to disallow them using Mars, essentially locking them out of the game while I reaped forever. Wasn't even going for a combo, just suddenly realized I could stop them playing the game after my first key.

 

[1upsuper]

Depending. The nice thing about the first starter set you get two starter decks and two random decks. The second starter is just two random decks and both sets come with tokens. Or you can find tokens online and just buy decks from both

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The second one. For the price of two decks you get two decks plus the tokens you need to play. The first one is twice the price and all you get for the extra $20 is two "tutorial" decks you will use exactly once and never again, probably not even that because the game's rules are simple enough anyway.

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Thank you both! Placed an order for the second one. Looking forward to it.

 

[Lothars]

Thank you both! Placed an order for the second one. Looking forward to it.

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No problem. I hope you enjoy, I'm a big fan of the game

 

[DarthSpider]

So the expansion is going to have a mixture of both new cards and old, right? Is the original series going out of print, or will those continue to be sold as well? I suppose depending on the balance of the new decks, people may prefer their odds with the old ones?

 

[Cat Party]

So the expansion is going to have a mixture of both new cards and old, right? Is the original series going out of print, or will those continue to be sold as well? I suppose depending on the balance of the new decks, people may prefer their odds with the old ones?

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Yes, the new set is a mix. The new decks are already out, BTW.

I don't think they've stopped printing the original set yet. Not sure. But based on updates to the rulebook, it would appear that the plan is to have some cards rotate out at some point.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

They're going to stop printing decks of the old set. So if you want more, get them while you can I guess.

Anyone managed to pull any nice AoA decks? I have 3 and they all have potential, but I think this one has the most potential:

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/436ae848-f876-4a1a-bc50-c7e9ad158d4c

Good card draw and archiving in Logos, 3 Ronnie wristclocks in Shadows (he steals one when he's played, or 2 if the opponent has 7 or more) decent amount of amber on cards, lollop the titanic plus the flex in brobnar (which can earn you 4 amber off one card), grump buggy to increase key cost (but potentially both for me and opponent)

Not bad I'd say

Also, the deck name is close to "ball sacks", so that's a plus too

 

[Cat Party]

They're going to stop printing decks of the old set. So if you want more, get them while you can I guess.

Anyone managed to pull any nice AoA decks? I have 3 and they all have potential, but I think this one has the most potential:

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/436ae848-f876-4a1a-bc50-c7e9ad158d4c

Good card draw and archiving in Logos, 3 Ronnie wristclocks in Shadows (he steals one when he's played, or 2 if the opponent has 7 or more) decent amount of amber on cards, lollop the titanic plus the flex in brobnar (which can earn you 4 amber off one card), grump buggy to increase key cost (but potentially both for me and opponent)

Not bad I'd say

Also, the deck name is close to "ball sacks", so that's a plus too

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That Flex card is awesome.

Is there a list of which Call of Archons cards were cut and which cards have been kept?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

That Flex card is awesome.

Is there a list of which Call of Archons cards were cut and which cards have been kept?

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A list of all cards in the new set, both completely new cards and those that returned from the last set, can be found here:

https://keyforge-compendium.com/sets/2-aoa/cards

 

[1upsuper]

Got my AoA starter kit and did some goldfishing to learn the rules. The randomized nature allows for some pretty interesting design ideas, though I'm always a bit disappointed when a new card game doesn't allow interaction on the opponent's turn. The first deck I opened, It that Supports Desire, seems pretty weird. But maybe every deck is weird.
https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/e40174a4-fb53-4b57-a762-768df444e48c
The reference to Magic's Plague Rats is not lost on me.

Looking forward to actually playing the game with someone soon. Neither of my decks have Sanctum which is kind of a bummer since I'm really into knights and stuff.

 

[Cat Party]

Got my AoA starter kit and did some goldfishing to learn the rules. The randomized nature allows for some pretty interesting design ideas, though I'm always a bit disappointed when a new card game doesn't allow interaction on the opponent's turn. The first deck I opened, It that Supports Desire, seems pretty weird. But maybe every deck is weird.
https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/e40174a4-fb53-4b57-a762-768df444e48c
The reference to Magic's Plague Rats is not lost on me.

Looking forward to actually playing the game with someone soon. Neither of my decks have Sanctum which is kind of a bummer since I'm really into knights and stuff.

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The lack of interaction on the opponent's turn is probably because they want to make an online version at some point. I actually enjoy that aspect, because resolving timing issues with disruption effects is one of the least fun things about any card game.

 

[cosmickosm]

My wife and I have played about 4 games of this, we enjoy it, but it was taking us 2 hours or so to finish a game. Imagine how dumb we felt that we both completely missed a big rule in the rulebook.

REAPING
Any ready creature of the active house may be used to reap

We were only reaping with creatures that had the Reap ability. Once we realized that error halfway through our last game, the game sped up big time. Holy crap did we feel like morons lol

 

[Luigi87]

Oh jeez, I feel like that would be suffering to play like that, lol

 

[hydrophilic attack]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/7/31/worlds-collide/

The third set, Worlds Collide has been announced for release in November. It will bring 2 new houses.

First, the Saurian Republic, a proud and powerful civilization of ancient reptiles. Here's an example:

Second, there is the Grand Star Allience. It's a technologically advanced spacefaring civilization, diverse and democratic. One of their ships apparently crash landed on the crucible, and that ship's crew of explorers and scientists will appear in this set. As an example, this is their captain

To make room for the new houses, Mars and Sanctum will be rotated out. That makes me a bit sad, because I like both those houses a lot, but apparently they will eventually be brought back in future sets

New mechanics include enrage, ward and exalt. Enrage forces a creature to fight (if it's able to) the next time it is used. Ward will protect a creature from one instance of taking damage or leaving play. Most exciting is exalt. Some cards allow you to exalt them as a cost for a powerful ability. If you do, you place an amber from the common pool on the creature. That means that if your opponent kills that creature, they get that amber. Seems like it could make for some interesting risk–reward situations

Finally there is a new type of rare card called anomalies. It's a small pool of very rare cards that can show up in any of the houses. They don't have a native house. It's hinted that these cards may be sneak peeks of cards that may show up as standard cards in future sets.

It seems like they are committing to a release schedule of a new set every 6 months

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Oh and since last weekend, the second set cards have been implemented on the unofficial online client the crucible online. So decks from that set can now finally be played online

 

[Lothars]

Oh and since last weekend, the second set cards have been implemented on the unofficial online client the crucible online. So decks from that set can now finally be played online

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That's awesome, I'm excited for the new set even thought i have to many decks

 

[SigmasonicX]

Interesting that houses can be rotated out. And exalted sounds like an interesting mechanic.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

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This looks like Library from Dominion...

 

[Cat Party]

Me, waving goodbye to Sanctum (hopefully forever)

 

[TheYanger]

That set looks so cool that I went and ordered the age of ascension decks I never bothered with previously.

 

[cakely]

New houses! Neat.

I just played a little last week, still a fun game, still a little slow. Both players have to really know their stuff to finish a best of three within a reasonable timeframe.