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KHIII is almost here! In this thread we ask and answer questions about the series' plot.

Oct 25, 2017
5,014
PA - US
I just watched that GT summary video from 2013 and thought it was really good! I definitely didn't remember 75% of that shit despite playing all of the games. Their timeline really makes me wonder what Kingdom Hearts would look like if FF Versus XV was never a thing. Makes it seem like all the prequel/inter-quel stuff was just to satisfy fans who wanted more KH.

What do you folks think? Would 358/2, DDD, or BBS exist if Nomura wasn't consumed by FFXV?
 
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Oct 29, 2017
1,107
Lebanon
Played and finished the below games:
Kh1 (on ps2)
Kh1 remix (on ps3)
Kh2 (on ps2)
Kh2 remixn(on ps3)
Birth by sleep (on psp)
Kh DDD (on ps4)
Kh 2.8 prologue (on ps4)

Watched the movies in the 1.5 and 2.5 and 2.8 games.

And i still feel like a newcomer when i read detailed conversations about the plot.

Dat convoluted plot.
Cannot wait for KH3.
 
Oct 28, 2017
776
My niggling question which will probably be answered in the first hour of KH3...

So, Xehanort took over Terra's body, forming what we call Terranort (BBS). Terranort actually has the hearts of both Terra and Xehanort (and Eraqus?) on the inside, but Xehanort is in control (BBS FM).
Meanwhile, Terra's "lingering will" lives on in his armour (BBS, KH2FM) and can use his Keyblade.
(This is notably only the case for Terra - Aqua and Ven's armour is just metal with no personality.)

When Terra speaks to Aqua across the realms (0.2), he is still very much present and still fighting with a Xehanort who has Terra's face, so we can assume this is still pre-KH1 Terranort.

After Terranort goes Heartless, Xehanort's heart becomes the Heartless Ansem SoD and Terranort's body becomes the Nobody Xemnas.
When Ansem SoD (KH1) and Xemnas (KH2) are defeated, the original person is recomposed (Coded). However, this is notably not Terranort, but Master Xehanort himself in his original body (DDD).

So, the question is: Where the hell is Terra?

We haven't seen him since before the events of KH1, so we don't know if his heart was affected when Ansem SoD and Xemnas were created.
Was his heart in one of them? Did it become its own Heartless, since it had no body?
Did he recompose like Xehanort did? What part of him is contained in his armour?
Is he actually carrying Eraqus's heart like Xehanort suggested, which would complicate it even more?
Am I grossly overthinking all of this?
As far as I know, we don't know. The leading theory is that the Guardian Heartless that follows Ansem SoD around is Terra's Heart turned Heartless. That is supported by MX saying something about how his heart "engulfs" Terra's meaning he was dragged along when Terranort ripped his heart out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,474
Canada
As far as I know, we don't know. The leading theory is that the Guardian Heartless that follows Ansem SoD around is Terra's Heart turned Heartless. That is supported by MX saying something about how his heart "engulfs" Terra's meaning he was dragged along when Terranort ripped his heart out.
Oh yeah I remember watching this video illustrating that with scenes from the game

 
Nov 1, 2017
117
My niggling question which will probably be answered in the first hour of KH3...

So, Xehanort took over Terra's body, forming what we call Terranort (BBS). Terranort actually has the hearts of both Terra and Xehanort (and Eraqus?) on the inside, but Xehanort is in control (BBS FM).
Meanwhile, Terra's "lingering will" lives on in his armour (BBS, KH2FM) and can use his Keyblade.
(This is notably only the case for Terra - Aqua and Ven's armour is just metal with no personality.)

When Terra speaks to Aqua across the realms (0.2), he is still very much present and still fighting with a Xehanort who has Terra's face, so we can assume this is still pre-KH1 Terranort.

After Terranort goes Heartless, Xehanort's heart becomes the Heartless Ansem SoD and Terranort's body becomes the Nobody Xemnas.
When Ansem SoD (KH1) and Xemnas (KH2) are defeated, the original person is recomposed (Coded). However, this is notably not Terranort, but Master Xehanort himself in his original body (DDD).

So, the question is: Where the hell is Terra?

We haven't seen him since before the events of KH1, so we don't know if his heart was affected when Ansem SoD and Xemnas were created.
Was his heart in one of them? Did it become its own Heartless, since it had no body?
Did he recompose like Xehanort did? What part of him is contained in his armour?
Is he actually carrying Eraqus's heart like Xehanort suggested, which would complicate it even more?
Am I grossly overthinking all of this?
This is basically one of the main mysteries of the series that will be answered in KH3.
 
As far as I know, we don't know. The leading theory is that the Guardian Heartless that follows Ansem SoD around is Terra's Heart turned Heartless. That is supported by MX saying something about how his heart "engulfs" Terra's meaning he was dragged along when Terranort ripped his heart out.
That would be dope if it ends up true.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
So was that actually Riku at the land of dragons in kh2? Why on earth was he there?

My younger self always assumed that it wasnt him and that it was just some fake or something
For some reason he felt the need to warn the Emperor about the Heartless attack on his kingdom, and that "3 wise guys" were going to handle it. But yeah, he really didn't need to show himself there at that point. I guess he just really wanted to see Sora again without revealing himself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
179
I don't really understand why the data realms are a thing. Were they just created to train people after the Keyblade War? Why were they introduced in the main story?
 
Just noticed the cover photo for the topic, lmao.
Played and finished the below games:
Kh1 (on ps2)
Kh1 remix (on ps3)
Kh2 (on ps2)
Kh2 remixn(on ps3)
Birth by sleep (on psp)
Kh DDD (on ps4)
Kh 2.8 prologue (on ps4)

Watched the movies in the 1.5 and 2.5 and 2.8 games.

And i still feel like a newcomer when i read detailed conversations about the plot.

Dat convoluted plot.
Cannot wait for KH3.
When you’re a long time fan and love the games to bits and play each one as they come, you have a looong time to talk about each game and every aspect of the story. You eventually just remember everything to a point, lol.
 
Nov 1, 2017
117
I just watched that GT summary video from 2013 and thought it was really good! I definitely didn't remember 75% of that shit despite playing all of the games. Their timeline really makes me wonder what Kingdom Hearts would look like if FF Versus XV was never a thing. Makes it seem like all the prequel/inter-quel stuff was just to satisfy fans who wanted more KH.

What do you folks think? Would 358/2, DDD, or BBS exist if Nomura wasn't consumed by FFXV?
Maybe not all of them, but I do think it would've worked out differently. It occurred to me some time ago that the handheld games existed as a consequence to the struggles SE faced in the HD era. With all the project they had (And failed to develop properly) there was simply no resource to make a console KH. This must've been handy for Nomura though, who always seemed keen to expand the story and experiment with different hardware.
I mean, check out this quote from Nomura from the bonus book that came with a limited edition KH2FM. Keyblade War on PS3?? lol
Tetsuya Nomura said:
To tell the story about the Keyblade War we need the capacity of hi-spec hardware and we need to accumulate all of our knowledge on this hardware. And in telling this story, we will need to tell it in separate episodes, and how specifically to tell it has yet to be figured out.As for the fairytale that Kairi heard, for everyone to feel like such an old fairytale is real, I think we need a little more time. That is to say, to talk specifically about either this soon might perhaps be irrelevant.
 
I don't really understand why the data realms are a thing. Were they just created to train people after the Keyblade War? Why were they introduced in the main story?
In KH Space paranoids was used because it had Ansems work and stuff in it, and Twilight Town simply to house Roxas, but got retconned to include a huge thing about training the dandy lions and stuff. And decifering the stuff in Jiminys journal.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
179
In KH Space paranoids was used because it had Ansems work and stuff in it, and Twilight Town simply to house Roxas, but got retconned to include a huge thing about training the dandy lions and stuff. And decifering the stuff in Jiminys journal.
That makes sense. I suppose what makes it weird for me was hearing about Maleficent traveling backwards in time and getting trapped by mistake in a data version of her world unable to change anything. It seems like a funny/absurd idea, but it raises questions about where the data realms are, physically, and how she can go back in time to a simulation. Why didn't teen Xehanort get trapped or the Ansem darkness thing? idk
 
Nov 1, 2017
117
That makes sense. I suppose what makes it weird for me was hearing about Maleficent traveling backwards in time and getting trapped by mistake in a data version of her world unable to change anything. It seems like a funny/absurd idea, but it raises questions about where the data realms are, physically, and how she can go back in time to a simulation. Why didn't teen Xehanort get trapped or the Ansem darkness thing? idk
In Maleficent's case it was specifically a trap set up by the Master of Masters.
 
Oct 27, 2017
889
Why is Data-Riku suddenly working for the Organisation? I thought he "died" at the end of Coded (it's been years since I played that game)

And is there any place I can read about Chi's plot? The stuff about Maleficent in particular, it wasn't included in 2.8's recap, right?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,014
PA - US
Maybe not all of them, but I do think it would've worked out differently. It occurred to me some time ago that the handheld games existed as a consequence to the struggles SE faced in the HD era. With all the project they had (And failed to develop properly) there was simply no resource to make a console KH. This must've been handy for Nomura though, who always seemed keen to expand the story and experiment with different hardware.
I mean, check out this quote from Nomura from the bonus book that came with a limited edition KH2FM. Keyblade War on PS3?? lol
Yeah. I honestly just hadn't thought of things this way until I watched that video, but it makes a ton of sense. HD development was/is expensive, and the KH fanbase is hungry. I have no doubts that Nomura might have wanted to flesh things out past just KH3, but I dunno if he would have wanted quite as many titles.

I would 100% be down for a game that focused on the Keyblade war.
 
Oct 25, 2017
179
In Maleficent's case it was specifically a trap set up by the Master of Masters.
oh that's fits his personality lol.

Why is Data-Riku suddenly working for the Organisation? I thought he "died" at the end of Coded (it's been years since I played that game)

And is there any place I can read about Chi's plot? The stuff about Maleficent in particular, it wasn't included in 2.8's recap, right?
I found the presentation in this video pretty compelling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbkXWBu-RBw
though clearly I'm still trying to digest all of it. There's monthly story content for Union Cross updated. Here's the same youtuber for Dec and January releases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5f9XnpqfQI
 
Oct 27, 2017
889
Jul 24, 2018
1,172
So was that actually Riku at the land of dragons in kh2? Why on earth was he there?

My younger self always assumed that it wasnt him and that it was just some fake or something
He was there to track the Organization, that is pretty much what he’s been doing since Chain of Memories and making sure Sora gets through his Journey. The Organization has been meddling with the worlds and Riku was working on stopping them . He found out about Xigbar creating a giant Heartless Dragon to engulf said world, and decided to warn the Emperor of it, and told him Sora would be coming, he ended up running into him whichhe hadn’t planned.
 
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Jul 24, 2018
1,172
In KH Space paranoids was used because it had Ansems work and stuff in it, and Twilight Town simply to house Roxas, but got retconned to include a huge thing about training the dandy lions and stuff. And decifering the stuff in Jiminys journal.
Didn’t Roxas wake up in Twilight Town when he came to be and Xemnas gave his name? I think they made the point that Twilight Town, a that exist between Darkness and light (where Nobodies stem from) is where all the Nobodies awaken?
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,005
I think they made the point that Twilight Town, a that exist between Darkness and light (where Nobodies stem from) is where all the Nobodies awaken?
Nobodies are born in any world between light and darkness. Twilight Town is one of them, but Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, Mysterious Tower, and The World That Never Was are also examples.
 
Oct 25, 2017
729
DFW
Didn’t Roxas wake up in Twilight Town when he came to be and Xemnas gave his name? I think they made the point that Twilight Town, a that exist between Darkness and light (where Nobodies stem from) is where all the Nobodies awaken?
Well there's actually 2 Twilight Towns, the real version and the data version DiZ created for Roxas. Green Slime King was referring to the data version.
 
Dec 15, 2018
277
Re:coded is all about Mickey and co trying to figure out why the first Journal is blank except for the words "thank Namine". Chip and Dale create a computer that somehow literally turns the journal into Data that they can look inside of, they call it the datascape. Data Sora is just who Mickey and gang are using to poke around on the inside for them. Data Riku becomes a thing when Mickey and co are unknowingly teleported into the journal alongside Pete who was spying in. The journal created itself an avatar to help Mickey and co protect the data from Pete who calls Maleficent in. Data Riku is just the journal protecting itself in the datascape. He's basically just Riku but he has this weird insecurity about not being able to protect the data.

Re:coded is such a weird game because when the gameplay isn't completely changing genres between worlds it's dancing around these really odd philosophical ideas that almost seem at end with the series (of course none of this is deep it's just odd it's brought up at all). Like why are the Data versions of Sora and Riku okay with being reset and forgotten when we're supposed to care about the nobodies who by all means should not exist as separate beings from their somebodies. Why do we need to save Xion or Roxas at all in 3?
 
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Nov 8, 2017
513
can i just jump in on kh3 without playing the others? or am i just going to be confused.
Honestly just jump in and enjoy the gameplay. It will have recap videos of the series in-game the way the Yakuza games sort of do. They’d be dumb to drive away newcomers but a lot of fans don’t agree with that. It goes without saying that you’ll get a lot more out of the game if you’ve touched the others but all the games are generally straightforward with their individual plots
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
can i just jump in on kh3 without playing the others? or am i just going to be confused.
You won't catch everything, but both KH2 and DDD did a pretty adequate job of recapping previous games and SE has to know that this is going to be a lot of people's first KH game (particularly when they have Frozen and Pixar films for the first time). I'm sure you'll be able to have a good enough time without playing the previous games, much in the same way you can enjoy Infinity War without watching all the previous MCU films.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,551
Who actually was the traitor on the mobile games?
I remember it being a big thing about the story, but I didn't play long enough to see who it actually was.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
Who actually was the traitor on the mobile games?
I remember it being a big thing about the story, but I didn't play long enough to see who it actually was.
This is a thing they never told us, along with what's in the box and what actually happens in the War. There's a few theories: Ava for making the Dandelions, Luxu for reasons, Ira for hoarding the most lux, Master of Masters to set up the war, Aced for attacking Gula, Gula for having the lost page, etc. Abd some people think it was actually referring to the Dandelion Unions and being whoever killed Strelitzia.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,640
Re:coded is all about Mickey and co trying to figure out why the first Journal is blank except for the words "thank Namine". Chip and Dale create a computer that somehow literally turns the journal into Data that they can look inside of, they call it the datascape. Data Sora is just who Mickey and gang are using to poke around on the inside for them. Data Riku becomes a thing when Mickey and co are unknowingly teleported into the journal alongside Pete who was spying in. The journal created itself an avatar to help Mickey and co protect the data from Pete who calls Maleficent in. Data Riku is just the journal protecting itself in the datascape. He's basically just Riku but he has this weird insecurity about not being able to protect the data.

Re:coded is such a weird game because when the gameplay isn't completely changing genres between worlds it's dancing around these really odd philosophical ideas that almost seem at end with the series (of course none of this is deep it's just odd it's brought up at all). Like why are the Data versions of Sora and Riku okay with being reset and forgotten when we're supposed to care about the nobodies who by all means should not exist as separate beings from their somebodies. Why do we need to save Xion or Roxas at all in 3?
I wish Re:coded didn't exist. That "movie" of all the cutscenes was just dreadful.
 
Oct 25, 2017
346
This is a thing they never told us, along with what's in the box and what actually happens in the War. There's a few theories: Ava for making the Dandelions, Luxu for reasons, Ira for hoarding the most lux, Master of Masters to set up the war, Aced for attacking Gula, Gula for having the lost page, etc. Abd some people think it was actually referring to the Dandelion Unions and being whoever killed Strelitzia.
My theory is that there was never a traitor. MoM knew the Keyblade War was coming, so he just planted that story to sow the seeds of discord between the Foretellers to ensure it played out as he foresaw it, to ensure the integrity of the rest of his prophecies.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,551
This is a thing they never told us, along with what's in the box and what actually happens in the War. There's a few theories: Ava for making the Dandelions, Luxu for reasons, Ira for hoarding the most lux, Master of Masters to set up the war, Aced for attacking Gula, Gula for having the lost page, etc. Abd some people think it was actually referring to the Dandelion Unions and being whoever killed Strelitzia.
Ah, OK. I thought MoM was the the obvious, maybe too obvious, choice, but I didn't realise it could have been literally anyone of them lol.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
is there an era/gaf KH discord? can i get an invite if so?
I mean, I made one literally years ago but it's pretty deadzors

https://discord.gg/Ye9X7fN
My theory is that there was never a traitor. MoM knew the Keyblade War was coming, so he just planted that story to sow the seeds of discord between the Foretellers to ensure it played out as he foresaw it, to ensure the integrity of the rest of his prophecies.
I've seen that take too, though usually it's framed as MoM is the traitor instead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,528
Can someone explain to me why Roxas and Xion needs saving?

I thought both of these characters had their stories done.
 
Can someone explain to me why Roxas and Xion needs saving?

I thought both of these characters had their stories done.
Because Roxas is his own person and not just Sora. Xion, despite being created by the Organization still exists in Sora as her own person, as we see in DDD.

I understand Roxas coming back because of them alluding to him having his own heart many times, but I wish they left Xion as one of those tragic loses. But apparently everyone needs to come back, which im not really opposed to, just a little disappointed.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
202
I’ve accepted that I don’t give a crap about playing all of the past games and possibly still being lost, so jumping in it is. Maybe one day I’ll get around to going back. I’ll just watch the OPs video and come back with anything else.

Edit: Well I've got the main points I guess, but yep, that was some bullshit I just sat through watching. Super happy I didn't marathon my way through these games.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,576
When it is revealed that Kairi’s heart was in sora in KH1 I have 3 questions.

1. Why did her heart go into sora when their world was destroyed when it didnt for others like beast?

2. If that gold thing coming out of sora going into kairi was her heart, then what were the rest of the things that went into the princesses hearts? Were all their hearts in sora?

3. If sora had the heart of a princess, does that make him a princess?

I just started KH2 so if its explained there thats fine.

EDIT: BONUS QUESTION:

What is the best delivered line in KH1? Is it sora finding out his friend has succumed to the darkness and has become his enemy and filled his heart with darkness and responding with “You’re stupid!”

Or

Phil sprucing the colosseum up for the gaaaeeemmmss?
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,528
Because Roxas is his own person and not just Sora. Xion, despite being created by the Organization still exists in Sora as her own person, as we see in DDD.

I understand Roxas coming back because of them alluding to him having his own heart many times, but I wish they left Xion as one of those tragic loses. But apparently everyone needs to come back, which im not really opposed to, just a little disappointed.
I see, but how are these characters supposed to have a physical manifestation (this is what I think when talking about saving them) when they literally are a part of Sora?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,528
1. Why did her heart go into sora when their world was destroyed when it didnt for others like beast?
This was explained in BBS. Aqua sensed great light and power within Kairi when she first met her, she cast a spell on Kairi that would let her heart retrieve to another and take shelter if it were ever in danger.

2. If that gold thing coming out of sora going into kairi was her heart, then what were the rest of the things that went into the princesses hearts? Were all their hearts in sora?
Those are indeed the princesses hearts, but not coming from Sora, they were coming from the Keyblade that Riku was using. That keyblade was made from the princesses hearts, so what you saw was the Keyblade shattering and releasing those hearts.

3. If sora had the heart of a princess, does that make him a princess?
Not really, his body was only acting as a shelter for the real princess of light that was Kairi.
 
Oct 25, 2017
464
When it is revealed that Kairi’s heart was in sora in KH1 I have 3 questions.

1. Why did her heart go into sora when their world was destroyed when it didnt for others like beast?

2. If that gold thing coming out of sora going into kairi was her heart, then what were the rest of the things that went into the princesses hearts? Were all their hearts in sora?

3. If sora had the heart of a princess, does that make him a princess?

I just started KH2 so if its explained there thats fine.

EDIT: BONUS QUESTION:

What is the best delivered line in KH1? Is it sora finding out his friend has succumed to the darkness and has become his enemy and filled his heart with darkness and responding with “You’re stupid!”

Or

Phil sprucing the colosseum up for the gaaaeeemmmss?
1. Not entirely sure, but maybe it's because she passed through him when just after the door flew open and blew them away? Also, I don't think Beast's world fell to darkness. Belle was captured, then Beast followed.
Edit: also yeah bbs explains the kairi thing as the above post says

2. They were in the Keyblade of hearts thing that Ansem had.

3. Sora's own heart has some darkness, so probably not.

BONUS: "Ansam?"
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,202
When it is revealed that Kairi’s heart was in sora in KH1 I have 3 questions.

1. Why did her heart go into sora when their world was destroyed when it didnt for others like beast?

2. If that gold thing coming out of sora going into kairi was her heart, then what were the rest of the things that went into the princesses hearts? Were all their hearts in sora?

3. If sora had the heart of a princess, does that make him a princess?

I just started KH2 so if its explained there thats fine.

EDIT: BONUS QUESTION:

What is the best delivered line in KH1? Is it sora finding out his friend has succumed to the darkness and has become his enemy and filled his heart with darkness and responding with “You’re stupid!”

Or

Phil sprucing the colosseum up for the gaaaeeemmmss?
1. That's explained in Birth by Sleep (it also explains why she ends up on Destiny islands when Hollow Bastion fell)

2. Riku-Ansem used the hearts of the other princesses to create that fake keyblade. It was destroyed when Sora released Kairi's heart and so the 6 hearts used to make it returned to their bodies.

3. Sure.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,014
PA - US
Okay... So KH Union X is the only game/movie I haven't really caught up on yet. I just fired up the phone game but feel like checking out the movie instead. Is one better than the other? Does it explain why heartless are around back then?