Kids at one Utah Elementary must say yes if another kid asks to dance

[Pooh]

If this was recess and everyone was playing basketball, and the other kids didn't want to play basketball with your kid and they ostracized them, would that be okay? Or would you rather the school have the kids play with each other so they learn to socialize even with people they don't necessarily like?

 

[astro]

While I can understand the desire to prevent some children feeling rejected/isolated/etc... forcing others to say yes is not the way to fix it.

 

[est1992]

If this was recess and everyone was playing basketball, and the other kids didn't want to play basketball with your kid and they ostracized them, would that be okay? Or would you rather the school have the kids play with each other so they learn to socialize even with people they don't necessarily like?

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This is so much different than dancing. Dancing is intimate. Balling ain't.

 

[astro]

This is so much different than dancing. Dancing is intimate. Balling ain't.

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Exactly.

 

[adamsappel]

I have never seen a middle school dance that had boys who were more eager to dance than girls. The rule most likely isn't to make girls say "yes," it's to not let boys say "no."

 

[Hail Satan]

Yeah, I can see the good intentions but I'm not on board for this.

A child shouldn't be taught to submit or consent to something they should not be submitting or consenting to outside of school. Yeah they are trying to teach students to be accepting of others but there's other ways to do it than force.

 

[RedMercury]

The topic of the discussion changed with the topic title. At first it was about sexism and now that we know the same rule applies to both girls and boys, it is no longer about sexism.

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Sexism is absolutely a part of it, just because the boys have to do it too doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating institutional sexism or rape culture, something women are more negatively effected by for the most part.

 

[Deleted member 19218]

Sexism is absolutely a part of it, just because the boys have to do it too doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating institutional sexism or rape culture, something women are more negatively effected by for the most part.

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It certainly isnt after reading the article and the posts on this page of the thread.

It's more about whether or not this is a good way to ensure students are not left out.

 

[Nexus2049]

How it was when I was went to elementary school. Found it stupid then, find it stupid now.

 

[Seesaw15]

This is so much different than dancing. Dancing is intimate. Balling ain't.

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These elementary kids are line dancing not grinding. You'll probably have more intimate contact defending a person in basketball then doing dances taught in a Utah elementary school PE class.

 

[gosublime]

In Scotland schools have a tendency to practice Scottish country dancing (the stuff you do at ceilidhs) around winter time in Secondary School - 11-18.

Boys and girls line up on different sides, teacher called out if it was a boy or girls choice and then you had to walk over and ask your partner to dance politely. The person asked was told you should be polite and say yes.

It was hell - you knew who you couldn't ask because people would mock you if you picked partners out of your league so you had to get across quickly to ask someone in the right group for you. Also, we did progressive dances - I can still feel the clammy hands when the girl I was attracted to got closer.

Although, show me a ceilidh now and I'm a legend, kilt swirling while I strip the willow...

 

[30yearsofhurt]

This shit is how a rape culture happens.

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From dancing to raping?
???
What would Miss Bennett and Mr Darcy do today?

 

[darz1]

This is so much different than dancing. Dancing is intimate. Balling ain't.

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Line dancing?

 

[astro]

These elementary kids are line dancing not grinding. You'll probably have more intimate contact defending a person in basketball then doing dances taught in a Utah elementary school PE class.

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It's intimate for children. I've worked in schools with 3-4 YOs, I have 3 younger siblings, and I've worked as a nanny in the past with 5-14 YOs.

They find this stuff intimate. Don't place your adult understanding on them.

 

[Mad Max]

Would it be better for people if they just made a list of dance partners beforehand and did it that way? I mean this all seems reasonably innocent to me.

 

[astro]

Would it be better for people if they just made a list of dance partners beforehand and did it that way? I mean this all seems reasonably innocent to me.

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No. Kids are sensitive, they're learning to deal with their emotions, learning what boundaries are, learning what consent is... and some may even have the first inclination that they're in the wrong body, or have attraction to the same sex, etc...

Forcing them to pair up with someone this intimate is not fair. For some it could be confusing and very upsetting.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Why? I don't get the point. Rejection is part of life kid, get used to it.

This is a terrible lesson to teach them.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Why? I don't get the point. Rejection is part of life kid, get used to it.

This is a terrible lesson to teach them.

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Must be nice not being the Ralph at your school.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

a better idea would be just not to have school dances for elementary school kids

that way you get neither the anxiety of not getting any dances nor coercion of being forced into dancing without your consent

 

[Mad Max]

No. Kids are sensitive, they're learning to deal with their emotions, learning what boundaries are, learning what consent is... and some may even have the first inclination that they're in the wrong body, or have attraction to the same sex, etc...

Forcing them to pair up with someone this intimate is not fair. For some it could be confusing and very upsetting.

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Dancing with someone else is not necessarily something intimate or at all related to sexual attraction though. To me this is not more intimate than having to hold hands with the kid standing next to you or w/e.

 

[astro]

a better idea would be just not to have school dances for elementary school kids

that way you get neither the anxiety of not getting any dances nor coercion of being forced into dancing without your consent

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At our elementary we had discos, but we didn't have to pair up. It was just friends dancing with each other, or, more accurately, kids running around hyper on fizzy drinks.

No one was forced to dance with anyone and it was fine.

Dancing with someone else is not necessarily something intimate or at all related to sexual attraction though. To me this is not more intimate than having to hold hands with the kid standing next to you or w/e.

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Kids find it intimate. Again, please stop applying your adult understanding and perspective on elementary school kids.

 

[Mad Max]

Kids find it intimate. Again, please stop applying your adult understanding and perspective on elementary school kids.

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Neither of us is an authority on what all kids might find intimate or not. It probably depends on the child and what they're used to, which in turn depends on their upbringing, culture, etc. I know I had to do stuff like this early on in elementary school and didn't find it intimate. Because at that age I didn't consider boys and girl to be much different and it's not like they forced us to tango or something. That only starts happening once you hit puberty and at that age this dance would definitely become awkward for everyone.

 

[astro]

Neither of us is an authority on what all kids might find intimate or not. It probably depends on the child and what they're used to, which in turn depends on their upbringing, culture, etc. I know I had to do stuff like this early on in elementary school and didn't find it intimate. Because at that age I didn't consider boys and girl to be much different and it's not like they forced us to tango or something. That only starts happening once you hit puberty and at that age this dance would definitely become awkward for everyone.

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I have worked with children of this age, and I can assure you they find this stuff intimate. Of course that's anecdotal, but having discussed it with other teachers and nannies etc... while on the job it is something they all understand and are very aware of when dealing with kids this young.

 

[MistakenMobius]

No. Kids are sensitive, they're learning to deal with their emotions, learning what boundaries are, learning what consent is... and some may even have the first inclination that they're in the wrong body, or have attraction to the same sex, etc...

Forcing them to pair up with someone this intimate is not fair. For some it could be confusing and very upsetting.

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I think it depends from a lot of factors : I went to my first dance lesson 2 years ago to learn Waltz because I had a ball to attend (and other formal danse), this is far from intimate, this feels more like some kind of IRL Rythmn Tengoku where u have to be in sync with your partner (like that scene in NGE)

 

[astro]

I think it depends from a lot of factors : I went to my first dance lesson 2 years ago to learn Waltz because I had a ball to attend (and other formal danse), this is far from intimate, this feels more like some kind of IRL Rythmn Tengoku where u have to be in sync with your partner (like that scene in NGE)

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All I can tell you is in my experience they do find stuff like this intimate, and they don't like being told they have to partner up with someone they don't want to to the point I've seen kids become very distressed because of it. And it's a conversation I've had many times with other people where I worked or have shared professions.

Again, your applying your adult perspective here. It doesn't work like this for kids.

Take that as you will.

 

[Mest08]

I will readily admit to making my kids eat vegetables, do their homework, go to school, clean their rooms, brush their teeth... if forcing your kids to do things makes someone a bad parent I'm pretty awful. I don't know that I've had a day in 10 years where I haven't forced my kids to do something!

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I think it's pretty obvious I was talking about things like forcing kids to go to dances, play sports, etc. Obviously I make my kids eat dinner, brush their teeth, wipe their ass and so on.

 

[Mest08]

All I can tell you is in my experience they do find stuff like this intimate, and they don't like being told they have to partner up with someone they don't want to to the point I've seen kids become very distressed because of it. And it's a conversation I've had many times with other people where I worked or have shared professions.

Again, your applying your adult perspective here. It doesn't work like this for kids.

Take that as you will.

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In your experience, kids find line dancing intimate? How about playing tag? Soccer? Basketball? Have you seen 5 year olds play Soccer? It's 10 kids standing in the middle of the field touching each other.

 

[astro]

In your experience, kids find line dancing intimate? How about playing tag? Soccer? Basketball? Have you seen 5 year olds play Soccer? It's 10 kids standing in the middle of the field touching each other.

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Yes.
No.
No.
Yes.
No it's not even close to the same thing.

 

[Goldenroad]

I hope this just applies to school dances. Otherwise, if I were a kid, I would have use this rule to make math class pretty much unteachable. "Sorry teacher, Jessica has to dance with me now, it's the rule".

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I don't give a fuck what the rule is. My daughter doesn't have to dance with anyone she doesn't want to.

If someone thinks she shouldn't be allowed to go just to see her friends and/or someone she likes they can kick rocks.

 

[Deleted member 30526]

I don't give a fuck what the rule is. My daughter doesn't have to dance with anyone she doesn't want to.

If someone thinks she shouldn't be allowed to go just to see her friends and/or someone she likes they can kick rocks.

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Then why did you sign the permission slip the school sent out, like they did in this story?

 

[Mest08]

Yes.
No.
No.
Yes.
No it's not even close to the same thing.

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How not? You keep saying it's not the same but your only reason why is because you talked to other nannies.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Honestly this looks worse than it is. An optional school dance where kids can hopefully become more confident and make new friends. It's also only line dancing, not like prom.

I can also see how others would think it's too far.

But some are comparing it to rape culture... C'mon that's being really disingenuous.

 

[RandomDazed]

In Scotland schools have a tendency to practice Scottish country dancing (the stuff you do at ceilidhs) around winter time in Secondary School - 11-18.

Boys and girls line up on different sides, teacher called out if it was a boy or girls choice and then you had to walk over and ask your partner to dance politely. The person asked was told you should be polite and say yes.

It was hell - you knew who you couldn't ask because people would mock you if you picked partners out of your league so you had to get across quickly to ask someone in the right group for you. Also, we did progressive dances - I can still feel the clammy hands when the girl I was attracted to got closer.

Although, show me a ceilidh now and I'm a legend, kilt swirling while I strip the willow...

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Oh dear god you just brought it all back. The horror. THE HORROR.

In my school we (The boys) all had to RUN to the girls on the other side of the gym to find a girl.

Then every complicated social interaction you could imagine exagerated by puberty.

Those still cringe me so hard.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Then why did you sign the permission slip the school sent out, like they did in this story?

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I don't give a fuck what the permission slip says. My kid is not going to be forced to dance with anyone she doesn't want to.

That's an easy lawsuit. FOH. Some of the bullshit people will defend is astounding. Can't get a girl to dance with you? That's your problem. Step your game up. Fuck a rule so mofos with weak game don't feel bad. Gotta learn.

 

[AgainstTheCurrent]

Why? I don't get the point. Rejection is part of life kid, get used to it.

This is a terrible lesson to teach them.

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Agreed.

It's just like not everyone can get As, not everyone can be picked for the sports team, not everyone can get a medal at sports day.

Make sure the children are happy, but don't set up expectations like this.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Agreed.

It's just like not everyone can get As, not everyone can be picked for the sports team, not everyone can get a medal at sports day.

Make sure the children are happy, but don't set up expectations like this.

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Exactly. Shit is unrealistic. Sometimes you gonna take an L.

 

[FeistyBoots]

This shit is how a rape culture happens.

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Exactly.

No means no, assholes.

 

[99Luffy]

I don't give a fuck what the permission slip says. My kid is not going to be forced to dance with anyone she doesn't want to.

That's an easy lawsuit. FOH. Some of the bullshit people will defend is astounding. Can't get a girl to dance with you? That's your problem. Step your game up. Fuck a rule so mofos with weak game don't feel bad. Gotta learn.

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And if your daughter comes home crying because no one in the class is including her in the dances?
Youll probably sue for that too.

 

[Kite]

Dunno if this is just a Texas thing but in elementary we had to do line and square dancing in person, participation was mandatory and partners we're assigned. It was pretty lame and no one wanted to do it.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Being polite and accepting a non ideal line dancing invitation creates rapists.

Jesus christ ERA.

 

[woopWOOP]

So if one kid yells to the class to do the Cossack Dance together, no one can refuse him?

 

[Deleted member 3815]

In Scotland schools have a tendency to practice Scottish country dancing (the stuff you do at ceilidhs) around winter time in Secondary School - 11-18.

Boys and girls line up on different sides, teacher called out if it was a boy or girls choice and then you had to walk over and ask your partner to dance politely. The person asked was told you should be polite and say yes.

It was hell - you knew who you couldn't ask because people would mock you if you picked partners out of your league so you had to get across quickly to ask someone in the right group for you. Also, we did progressive dances - I can still feel the clammy hands when the girl I was attracted to got closer.

Although, show me a ceilidh now and I'm a legend, kilt swirling while I strip the willow...

Click to shrink...

Oh dear god you just brought it all back. The horror. THE HORROR.

In my school we (The boys) all had to RUN to the girls on the other side of the gym to find a girl.

Then every complicated social interaction you could imagine exagerated by puberty.

Those still cringe me so hard.

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You guys are crazy, I had fun when my schools did it...then again I was pretty popular with the girls.

 

[Stat]

As someone who goes to social dances (I do swing dancing/lindy hop), one of the first rules of the social dance is that if someone says "no", thats okay. Just find someone else. Its always someones right to say to "no" to a dance. No big deal. Nobody should ever have to say yes.

 

[RandomDazed]

You guys are crazy, I had fun when my schools did it...then again I was pretty popular with the girls.

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I think you are the only person i've ever heard state they enjoyed this. Like gosublime i like a good ceilidh as an adult, but 11-18 in high school is just not the time or place.

Every single boy and girl, in all the classes, in my school despised the whole thing.

While many other things divided people (such as popularity) this was really the one unifying event that literally every single person got behind expressing their hatred for.

I really hope it's not still a thing in Scotlands schools today.

 

[est1992]

These elementary kids are line dancing not grinding. You'll probably have more intimate contact defending a person in basketball then doing dances taught in a Utah elementary school PE class.

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Line dancing?

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They're kids. As a kid, giving hugs is intimate.

 

[gosublime]

You guys are crazy, I had fun when my schools did it...then again I was pretty popular with the girls.

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And RandomDazed - ours was more of a fast walk - we weren't allowed to run...

 

[gosublime]

Sorry - double post.

 

[Posty McPostface]

I feel like some people need to understand that this event seems to be more like a choreographed program, almost like a play, not a typical school dance where the school just provides a venue and music for kids to dance and socialize in. It appears that they practice the dances at school before the event, and there are limitations such as only being able to dance with a person once. So part of participating in the event is interacting with other people, even if they wouldn't be someone you would necessarily choose. Maybe the school needs to do a better job explaining this and explaining the conditions, but I can kind of see what the school's intentions are here.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

When I was a kid, my mom taught me that I should always dance with a girl if she asks me to dance, even if I don't like her, because it takes guts and it's the right thing to do... and I'll raise my kids the same way if I have boys. But, I think there is a difference between a girl who takes the initiative to go and ask a boy to dance and the opposite, especially in such a patriarchic society as one that's likely informed by LDS values.

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I don't see a difference at all really. It takes guts for a boy to ask a girl to dance too. It's not really a good thing to treat people nicely out of pity. I think instead it's more important to learn that you are allowed to turn people down while still being kind and polite about it and also on the other side to learn how to deal with rejection.