This sucks. Let kids be kids. This policy just removes all agency. I wonder if these kinds of policies will have long term detrimental effects on these kids.
Kids at one Utah Elementary must say yes if another kid asks to dance
- Thread starter BringBackSonics
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Crashing and burning gives your character. With as charmin soft as we treat kids these days the next generation of comedians is going to suuuuuuck.
The elimination of consent is the beginning of rape culture.
Just because this is a difference in degree does not make it a difference in kind.
I feel like there's a problem when inclusion is taught at the cost of personal choice and consent. They both can and should exist, but this needlessly promotes one at the cost of the other.
Obviously, it's just a dance and not really a huge deal -- but it bothers me that this philosophy is being promoted to children this early, as if their personal choice doesn't matter at all, and it's all about making others feel welcome.
Obviously, it's just a dance and not really a huge deal -- but it bothers me that this philosophy is being promoted to children this early, as if their personal choice doesn't matter at all, and it's all about making others feel welcome.
Why would I sue when disappointment is a part of life. No participation trophies. Kids need to learn to take an L. My kid ain't no exception. Nice try though.
Word. Amazing how mofos wanna ignore this simple thing.
Not just comedians but this is basically breeding literal snowflakes, kids who can't take no for an answer grow up being the worst fuckers of them all.
How so? Rape culture always existed whether there's consent or not.
Real life will eventually beat them down into submission just like it does to the rest of us. You're right though, they'll be little shits leading up to then. I can't stand most kids as it is.
An easy lawsuit? Is this serious? On what basis? Emotional harm from dancing with someone you don't like?
Elementary school dances are not that big a deal, fellas.
Depends on the dance. There's nothing intimate about line dancing.
User warned: personal attacks
Again, we are talking about elementary school. Where you have to ask permission to use the bathroom and can be told no.
You don't have free agency in elementary school,
"joey, come up to the front and do this math problem on the board"
"No"
"Joey, you have to do it"
"I DO NOT CONSENT"
Thats how you get sent to the principal.
Some of you sickos need to get your minds out of the gutter. If rape is the first thing that comes to mind when you're reading about 10 year olds line dancing, then maybe youre the problem.
There's a difference between going alone to the front of the class to do a math problem and insisting that someone is allowed to enter your personal space just because they asked. That's Consent 101.
In retrospect, sure. But to an elementary schooler that shit can be everything. I remember school dances back then. You're going through puberty so you're already awkward af, you're doing everything in your power to keep your voice from cracking when talking to girls, and god forbid you get a random boner you have to hide.
Schools have been sued and settled for less.
And you're right. School dances aren't a big deal. No need for some mandatory policy like this.
This is Weber County, Utah, where this takes place. I have friends that live here and it's freakin gorgeous.
I mean, you can sue anyone for anything, but you'd get laughed out of court for this.
No need for a mandatory policy, but no need to get outraged about it either.
Are you familiar with line dancing?
School desks are placed closer together than the average position of people doing the dance.
Do you with Joey should consent to who gets to sit around him in the classroom?
I'm not outraged. Just expressing disagreement on a discussion board. There's a clear difference.
And like I said, it wouldn't make it to court. Schools have settled for far less.
There is a difference between disagreement and outrage, and raving about how you’d sue sounds a lot like outrage.
Maybe some school somewhere at some point settled over something as trivial as this, but I suspect that’s tales from your ass.
Errrrr schools ask this all the time.
I mean I was asked to stand in line with other students tightly during fire alarms and shoulder to shoulder for height comparisons. Since stuff was by alphabet you had no choice about the order. PE excerises you get group up and if you weren't able to find a partner your forced together.
Things I Made Up for $1,200, Alex.
Like, the kids will be fine. Most schools do line dancing or whatever and you are paired up with a random person or someone chooses you or you dance with multiple people over the session. You can opt out beforehand since it's voluntary. Same thing applies here.
What’s the difference between being paired with 1 person and being paired up with 5? Because that’s really all this is.
At this point you're being pedantic. You don't like my opinion. That's fine. I stand by it. Nothing you've said is changing my mind.
And you have the nerve to claim Im the one acting outraged. Go look in a mirror before you bother replying to me again.
Maybe not to us, but to a kid it is. It wouldn’t be an immediate problem, but down the line as the kid gets older, it will be.
What problems do you foresee coming from dancing with 5 people during an optional school dance once when you were 11?
If you don't think being told your physical comfort level is less important than being polite to someone/making them happy contributes to rape culture, then you probably don't have to worry about rape culture. I know my worry and panic at saying "no" to people didn't just spring into existence as an adult. It happened because at every stage of my life, I was expected to be polite, nice, and to ignore my own feelings of discomfort to make other people happy. And to be quiet and not cause a fuss. Society as a whole encourages this. It's not just one dance; it's a dance that falls directly in line with how women are taught to behave from a very young age. I definitely think it's concerning that boys have to say yes too, because this shit sticks with you. You are learning and your brain is growing at this age. There's a reason things that happen to us young tend to influence our behaviors for most of our lives.
I think inclusiveness is a great goal, but this isn't how you do it, imo.
I think inclusiveness is a great goal, but this isn't how you do it, imo.
Gotta love when the first defense for something is "well we've been doing this for a long time".
...So?
...So?
User warned: Personal attack.
You sound like a lunatic helicopter parent. “Nobody’s making MY daughter dance with someone she doesn’t like! I’ll sue!!!”
Get over yourself.
The dance is voluntary. The students are told beforehand what would happen, the parents even sign the permission form. All parties involved understand the rules.
I think you have to demonstrate how harmful this is to students. It's a completely voluntary event where students are told beforehand what would happen so no twists are being done.
You sound like someone that can't stand that someone has a different opinion.
Learn how to disagree without being obnoxious about it. You can discuss your different views without being hostile to someone. Also, you seem to be the outraged one.
I don't know what kind of dancing you think these kids are doing but they'll almost certainly touch each other less than playing basketball.
Homecoming, prom, etc are all voluntary too, but kids go because it's a social thing, and there is social pressure. Also, some kids do just want to have fun and either dance on their own, or only with people they choose. So, if you don't want to have to say yes to someone, you can't go to the dance? What if you're a kid and you have a kid bullying you, and said kid will be at the dance? Now you either can't go because your harasser is there, or you have to -hope- a teacher will take you seriously when you say a kid has been bullying you. I used to have to hide on the playground as a kid, because another kid chased me around trying to kiss me. You can bet your ass if we were both at a dance that he would have written my name down.
Edit: there's also the fact of... What if you agreed, but realized once there you were uncomfortable? You should just deal with it and make the other person happy? And we wonder why women don't leave iffy dates immediately? I mean, they agreed. The date was voluntary.
Also:
He agreed that there should be a permission slip, but it doesn't seem like there actually is one. Maybe there will be in the future.
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You're welcome to your opinion. But if you make false claims don't get angry when people point it out.
Hadn't thought of it that way. That makes sense.
This is so stupid in the same way every kid in sports gets a medal for participation. Maybe that is why all kids now seem entitled to whatever they want. It seems they get everything without repercussions....like this dance....no chance of a 'fuck off kid!.....I ain't dancing with you!!'
Yeah it just seems like a different themed dance. One night out of 365 is not going to turn anybody into rapists.
Again, I think some of you are misconstruing what this dance is. It’s not like prom or homecoming, where you are given free range to show up with a date, or no date, dance, or not dance. This appears to be an event where the kids choose to attend, learn different dances at school, then do them at the event. You aren’t allowed to dance with someone more than once and you are supposed to put down on a card kids you want to dance with. I don’t think you are meant to go and then not dance. It almost strikes me more as like a play or something, where you rehearse ahead of time then do the performance at a scheduled time. It also doesn’t strike me as the social event of the year, since they are doing things like line dancing.
But admittedly I don’t have all the details.
Gross
My kids would be pulled in a heartbeat. My daughters won’t be forced to dance with anyone they don’t want to entirely on their own
If that means a few kids are left out because no one wants to dance with them, too bad
I mean that sucks for them but this is not the solution
Just cancel the dance then
My kids would be pulled in a heartbeat. My daughters won’t be forced to dance with anyone they don’t want to entirely on their own
If that means a few kids are left out because no one wants to dance with them, too bad
I mean that sucks for them but this is not the solution
Just cancel the dance then
They can still say no at homecoming, prom, etc. They can also not go to those due to social pressures.
If you're being bullied then it's the school's failure for not intervening properly.
At the end of the day, it's a small dance within the long life they will continue to live. I highly doubt this specific dance will be a catalyst for awful behavior down the road or even influence it. Seems like a way to talk to people you wouldn't normally talk to due to school cliques.
My apologies for the permission slip, thought I read they were given one.
Let me put it in ways you'll all understand:
Say lil Jessica is the hottest girl in school, by 11 year old standards. Say every little Mormon boy there wants a dance with lil Jessica, but say Jessica doesn't wanna dance with all of them. Maybe she thinks some of them are weird. Maybe some of them don't bathe enough and they stink. Either way, she doesn't wanna dance with them. Come dance time, Jessica only wants to be with her friends, but nope, she's got a bunch of 11 year old kids coming at her from all angles to dance with her. She can't say no, it's in the rules. Now, Jessica feels uncomfortable. Now, all those Mormon boys get to have their turn dancing with her, even though she feels uncomfortable. Don't you think lil Jessie-poo should have the ability to say "no, I don't wanna dance with you?"
Yeah, biggest problem is we don't know the details.
Many of our problems in society stem from things that don't seem like a big deal on the face, and that's what makes these problems so insidious. It's never about being outraged (not that you said that), but about making sure we aren't reinforcing harmful behaviors. It's good to question and discuss these things
It's not that you don't believe my claim that schools have settled lawsuits for things less petty than this. It's an issue of expressing your disagreement without being obnoxious about it.
Schools get sued all the time over disagreements in policy and many times they settle simply by changing the policy or making exceptions. For shit just as if not less than dumb shit like this policy.
I don't mind being called wrong but saying "You're being angry!!!!!" then proceeding to type obnoxious shit is pretty hypocritical. Don't get defensive if this gets pointed out to you.
Why do you want to force young kids to dance with other kids they don’t like?
Its weird
Not so fast....If a girl was forced to say 'yes' to dance with a bully or creepy pervert kid....then all sorts of bullying 'Mary danced with Ralph and she looooved it' or the inevitable touching by the other kid....a parent could easily sue. There is so much that could go wrong. It's a stupid fucking rule. Thank god I'm not growing up in schools in this era.