Kids at one Utah Elementary must say yes if another kid asks to dance

Discussion in 'EtcetEra' started by BringBackSonics, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. This isn't how it works, though. You have a list of names written beforehand of people you want to dance with. Can't dance with the same person twice, and when the card is full then you're done.

    "The district said Monday in a statement to McClatchy that participation in the school dance is voluntary and explained that students are taught various styles of dancing, such as line dancing, in PE before the event."

    They're taught dances so one can only assume they'll get a partner from their card for each of those dances IE Lil Jessica dances with Lil Timmy for line dancing and then another for this other dance.

    It doesn't appear to be the bump and grind type of dance. They still have those events where they can say no to people.

    They're not forced if the event is voluntary. Forcing them would be making it mandatory but it isn't.
     
  2. RDreamer

    RDreamer Member

    The thing is that (presumably) no one is upset about the PE class setup, which seems to be what you think this is. The article talks about them learning things in PE class. Teacher assigns people to dance and they learn together. That's fine. There's a difference though between that sort of loss of agency in a classroom and learning setting and literally telling children they cannot say no when asked. Those are very different things and they teach the children very different things in my opinion.

    And on top of that the article uses line dancing as an example of one of the dances they'd do. That is not the only one. I'm fairly certain no one gives a fuck about someone line dancing near you. That's not really what this is about.
     
  3. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    lil Jessica shouldn’t have to line dance or awkaward no touching dance with anyone either

    Why does dance type matter? No one in this topic thought it meant grinding for Christ’s sake it’s elementary school
     
  4. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    The event is voluntary yes

    So if you want to go to a dance and just not dance with certain people, oh well?
     
  5. est1992

    est1992 Member

    Its. still. weird. How do you not see that? Of course they aren't grinding, they're KIDS. Kids find it intimate just to hug someone or be near them.
     
  6. Then she chooses not to go?. Also, in line dancing for PE (done before the dance) you don't *really* (unless you game the system and count how many steps are to your BFF) choose your partner since most dances have you rotating through multiple people. Is that a problem too?

    Like, it's a voluntary, inclusion-ary dance event where they do dances like line dancing. At regular dance events or in general they can say no to things.
     
  7. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat Member

    Why would Jessica be there? The whole point is it’s part of a dance class that these kids attended, and this is the show to show off what they learned.

    Also unsure of what you mean by a way I’ll understand, then go on to describe some ultra seedy situation where some 11 year old girl is borderline being molsted. Is that what you picture this to be?
     
  8. Fauxpaw

    Fauxpaw Member

    They can say no there, but they've also been exposed to 10+ years of the gender roles I've outlined above. Being worried, fretful, or flat-out anxious about saying "no" to someone doesn't sprout from nowhere. It's reinforced through various small and large experiences in your life. Humanity's biggest mistake is thinking our behaviors and thoughts are rational, and making decisions based on that rationality. We experience different emotions based on colors we see, but we don't think a dance at 10/11 could have an affect on our behavior? I didn't wear glasses for years because ONE person snickered at me for wearing them. I squinted at the board until my parents could afford contacts. One time event in my life that lasted not even a minute, and I can still remember where I was and what the room looked like.

    And again, if the school does nothing about the bully, then you don't go to the dance. A failure on the school, yes, but something that often happens.

    And no worries about the slip. The article is pretty basic.
     
  9. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Only line dancing at this event? I got the impression it was multiple types ‘including’ line dancing
     
  10. FeistyBoots

    FeistyBoots Member

    Thank you.
     
  11. And this dance isn't going to push those kids over the edge. Yes, things compound over time from that sexist joke your uncle says seriously, to how kids pick on each other, to media shaming people for being poor, a minority, etc, to everyone taught to just be polite no matter what instead of telling people, "piss off".

    At the end of the day, you can believe this dance will cause some behavioral issues down the road but I doubt you're going to convince a lot of people of that. It's a voluntary dance where they're doing things like line dancing which they were taught previously in the day (and line dancing requires random partners for some of the dances).

    But I can see the absolute snark, though, thanks for that. It's like you really want to have a discussion but can't help yourself. Don't bully, eh?


    Yeah, used line dancing as an example. If they're including multiple dances then it's fair to assume they're just choreographed dances like the ballroom shit.
     
  12. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    And if the kids have to fill out a form with names of who they want to dance with, then it’s safe to assume there are some dances that involve 1 on 1 or some kind of touching, no?
     
  13. Astronut325

    Astronut325 Member

    This is my take as well. As a parent, this dance doesn’t bother me at all.
     
  14. Fauxpaw

    Fauxpaw Member

    No, the article was basic. I wasn't being snide. I find it incredible that I'm having a multi-paragraph conversation with you detailing personal experiences in my life, and you took that last line as snark.
     
  15. Yeah, it's dancing. You generally hold onto your partner in some way and sway around like a plant.

    Also, I'm 100% confident if a student doesn't want to dance after going to the event the teachers and staff aren't going to force them.

    I kind of hope they do exit interviews on this dance. The way some of y'all are shaping this up it sounds like a monstrous evening where everyone just hates being there.
     
  16. What if a boy asks another boy?
     
  17. Fauxpaw

    Fauxpaw Member

    We all know that shit wouldn't fly in Utah of all places.
     
  18. But he would have to say yes.

    Checkmate Utah.
     
  19. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat Member

    Re reading the article I can’t actually see where they’re not allowed to say no.

    “Please be respectful, polite,” Findlay said. “We want to promote kindness and so we want you to say yes when someone asks you to dance“

    They want students to be polite and say yes, I can’t see where they’re forced to. Unless I’m missing it.
     
  20. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Right and I’m arguing that kids should be free to attend a public school dance and participate without being forced to interact specifically with people they might not want to

    I don’t care if that means some kids are left out, that’s honestly how life works

    It’s how my school dances always went

    There’s always a few kids no one will touch or dance with
     
  21. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Yeah maybe they just need to clarify further?

    Though I don’t see how agreeing to dance with someone is polite

    It’s perfectly fine and polite to say no if done correctly
     
  22. It's not like a normal school dance, though, unless you think school dances have choreographed line dancing.....

    No need to state the article is basic. ;)
     
  23. MIMIC

    MIMIC Member

    Well that's....weird. The school has good intentions, but this takes it just a tad too far.
     
  24. shira

    shira Community Resetter Member

    I had a few friends that lived in Salt Lake City
    Everytime they mailed me letters

    >SL, UT

    Utah acts all prim and proper but they have sex, watch porn etc.
    My friends say that gay people acted with more discretion than usual, but they weren't persecuted or anything like that. The Church of Latter Day Saints accepts everyone:

    https://www.lds.org/topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

    >Same-sex attraction refers to emotional, physical, or sexual attraction to a person of the same gender. The experience of same-sex attraction is not the same for everyone. Some people may feel exclusively attracted to the same gender, while others may feel attracted to both genders. The Church distinguishes between same-sex attraction and homosexual behavior. People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple.
     
  25. This school, and subsequent grades in the same district, might also have dances that are like the ones we are more accustomed to. But this one is clearly set up to be conducted a certain way. I don’t ever remember practicing dances moves in school before a dance, only being allowed to dance with a person once, and having to put my choices in a card beforehand. This seems to be a dance with a specific purpose in mind.

    If this is how all of the dances are done for these kids through high school, then yeah, I’d say that’s clearly an inappropriate way to go about it.
     
  26. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Right but if all the dancing is a large group event / choreographed then what’s the need for the cards noting who you want to dance with?
     
  27. There are probably dances that require partners. I don’t think there is any confusion on this point. That wouldn’t mean it’s not a structured or coreographed event. There might be some songs where you can do whatever you want, but clearly there are certain styles of music and dancing that will take place, which is why they learn them beforehand.
     
  28. ShyMel

    ShyMel Member

    Children should not be forced to dance with others they do not want to. We need to do better at letting children that they can say no to not just things like this, but from touching and such from other children and also adults.
     
  29. Sokrates

    Sokrates Member

    Taking the wrong lessons from #MeToo. Little Weinsteins in the making instead of little Einsteins.
     
  30. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Ok?

    Your still potentially forcing children to partner with someone they don’t want to to avoid hurt feelings

    And this is not in a classroom educational setting

    Let’s be real, it’s a social event

    Let the kids work it out, If someone is ignored then that’s life
     
  31. Juste

    Juste Member

    Yea lets be exclusionary with literal children in the name of "keeping it real", like that autistic boy who's birthday party no one showed up to.
     
  32. Yung Coconut

    Yung Coconut Member

    I think this thread is an overreaction. Maybe kids will dance with someone they wouldn't have ever associated with and realize that they aren't so different? If a kid had a legit problem with anyone else I can't imagine they would be forced to dance if they talked to their teacher? Plus it seems specific to this dance and if a kid doesn't want to participate they don't have to? This just comes off as fake internet outrage 101. I just don't get the impression this is just girls being told they have to dance with boys because they have no say in the matter. The same rules apply to every gender.

    Then again it's also obvious people are going to flip over this no matter what, so bad choice on the school regardless. I mean, look at this thread.
     
  33. lenovox1

    lenovox1 Member

    It is not a school's responsibility to protect kids from ALL the hurt and pain they may go through in any given social setting. That simply isn't possible.
     
  34. Lots of extracurricular school activities can result in interactions with kids you don’t like. People are getting hung up on this one because instead of acting in a school play, you’re dancing. But I don’t see a functional difference as long as the kids and parents are told beforehand what the rules are. People are acting like kids are being told to choose between going to a big social event like the prom and dance with whomever chooses you, or stay home. But I doubt this is how this dance is viewed. A lot of kids would probably rather go to Jessica’s birthday party dance and do whatever they want while Drake plays in the background than to go line dancing with the kid who wears cowboy boots with shorts and talks nonstop about his nunchuck collection.
     
  35. Valkyr1983

    Valkyr1983 Member

    Instead let’s just give participation awards to everyone, make sure everyone gets a partner they want, everyone makes the team, etc

    All in the name of being inclusionary and not hurting anyone’s feelings

    Yeah that story about the autistic boys bday is sad. Sometimes life is sad. Should private bdays be mandatory so this doesn’t happen?

    I’ve seen it happen in real life, but is this the solution? Some people are just destined to not be “wanted”. Forcing others to like them isn’t the right answer
     
  36. It's a voluntary event where the students are told before hand what will happen as they were told to write down names with people you want to dance with and are taught the dances.

    Let's be real, it's a choreographed event, the kids who don't want to participate can stay home. If some kids want to go but don't like the rules? That's life.
     
  37. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat Member

    I think the thread title needs updated, I can’t find anything from th school that says they’re forced to say yes. The school says they’d like them to say yes to be nice, not that they’re required to.
     
  38. Juste

    Juste Member

    That applies to this particular event how? Where it is not only possible, but apparently a long tradition?

    In the context of literal elementary children at a school function, yes promoting inclusion is the solution. From what I recall in elementary school, everyone did in fact make the team. Life lessons like making the team are usually a graded tier taught between Jr. High, High School, and young adulthood.
     
  39. Sly Chimera

    Sly Chimera Member

    Are you guys offended by a gym class where they let the kids pick their own teams and you can’t say no because we used to have those all the time.
     
  40. That's fine. They can do that if they want. However, my school was always random and the teacher just pointed at who is on who's team.

    It's a little hypocritical for some people to say people should accept rejection because that's life, bruh but maybe another life lesson is don't go to things you don't want to go to and not all events are going to meet your requirements?
     
  41. Yung Coconut

    Yung Coconut Member


    I've been forced to partner with people I didn't want to from elementary through college , now in my profession and even during social events. Some people I changed my mind about and others just reaffirmed my original opinion. This is what happens in the real world when you leave your house.

    And yes, it is a social event. If the kids don't want to participate they don't have to. If someone feels left out because they don't like the structure of the dance let them work it out. That's also life. I don't get to go to events all of the time for many reasons like this. Where is twitter/era's outrage on my behalf?
     
  42. mute

    mute Member

    The whole thing seems weird looking back on it but I want to say we were assigned partners when we did this sort of thing in grade school. Vast majority of the time it was just line dancing but if partners were necessary you just went with who you were assigned and got on with it. This was part of class though not a "school dance".
     
  43. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat Member

    I remember in a school trip once we had to cross a busy road so all the kids had to hold hands and I ended up holding hands with the girls on either side of me. We were 9 or 10 so nobody wanted to hold hands with someone of the opposite gender because it wasn’t cool, but no one was damaged as a result of not being able to say no.
     
  44. Just_a_Mouse

    Just_a_Mouse Member

    I have always thought that was incredibly degrading, practically bullying. I hope it is no longer a thing in schools.
     
  45. Putting on a performance is different than having a peer approach you of their own volition to ask you to dance and you being obligated to do so.

    Fire safety drills and health surveys are different than having a peer approach you of their own volition to ask you to dance and you being obligated to do so.

    It's not a hard concept to grasp.
     
  46. Gravy Boat

    Gravy Boat Member

    You’re not obligated to do so. The school said they’d like people to say yes but despite the title of the thread and article there’s nothing indicating they’re forced to say yes.
     
  47. Yung Coconut

    Yung Coconut Member

    What!? Girls being told they have no choice in what they do in gym and even the boys being forced to do gym activities with the kids that would be left out otherwise? What's wrong with people?

    There was something to read besides the thread title?
     
  48. Principate

    Principate Member

    Class activites involved this constantly in school, from PE to math. Have you never seen or been forced to pair up with someone for an activity in school?

    This rule was for all members of the class boys dancing with boys and girls dancing with girls. It's to encourage friendship making and social activity within the class beyond your usual peer group. Something that's even done with students all the up to university in the uk.
     
  49. Principate

    Principate Member

    double post.
     
  50. mazi

    mazi Member

    not a good idea, kids should experience rejection. having kids raised this way only makes their life harder when they're on their own.