Kill La Kill made me cringe out of my skull

Small Red Boy · Jan 3, 2020

I'd say it is a parody. But, regardless of the intention, the result is the same: another anime with extremely sexualized underage girls.
Also there was an interesting feminist reading of the show as the nudity being a metaphor for sexual liberation, or something like that (yes I know how I am sounding, and no, I don't intend to defend the show sexualization, as said the result is the same) but I saw it a long time ago and can't remember how this interpretation holds up.
Having said that I remember liking the show a lot, but I can (or could anyways) endure that kind of stuff.

Patapuf · Jan 3, 2020

I actually liked the premise of a secret the nudist society going "fuck norms and social pressures" but i don't think the show exectued it all that sucessfully.

There's a few good bits here and there, especially the beginning and the very end, but overall i felt the show didn't go into the topic hard enough and even undermined itself regularily.

It's got decent action and humour, but i wouldn't recommend that show for it's social commentary (or at all, really).

DryCreek · Jan 3, 2020

MetatronM said:
Kill la Kill is a send up of the kind of insipid fanservice that pervades most otaku-bait anime by dialing it way the hell up to 11 (and beyond) and being pretty equal opportunity about it, all things considered, to the point that it completely desensitizes the whole thing.

Like go watch a show like Val × Love (or don't, I seriously wouldn't recommend it, I only know it because it was on TV when I was in Japan and hoo boy!) and then compare that to Kill la Kill, and it's pretty clear they're going for very different things despite both being overtly sexual in nature.

Nah. I really enjoyed klk but the nudity is not equal opportunity. Male nudity is treated as a joke whereas the women are sexualised.

I enjoyed kill la kill despite the perviness it has some amazing set pieces music and characters and the show wouldn't be diminished at all if they just put some damn normal clothes on the characters and changed the writing / macguffins a bit to make it not pervy. It could have been rigid uniforms Vs fashionable clothing as a stand in for facisim Vs freedom and the show would still work fine.

Mendrox · Jan 3, 2020

Spicednoodle said:
Is that really the excuse you're going with? Because I seem to hear that excuse a lot to wave away problematic content.

Excuse? This is so not worth it.

NotLiquid · Jan 3, 2020

I feel like this show had all the right ingredients going for it but just a poor form when it came to the assembly. The characters and their designs are wonderful; it's the one part about it that still sticks to me after having seen the series (plus some of the music). If there's one thing I can't fault Trigger for it's their ability to strike an impression with their cast. They make heroes that you want to see succeed and they make villains that you just love to despise, and the characters alone were enough for me to look forward to Kill La Kill IF.

I think what ultimately held this show back is time. It feels like a show that should've been made years later than it did, when Trigger were a more established studio, since despite how the show manages to make multiple action scenes pop thanks to Imaishi and Sushio's stellar propensity for keyframes, the animation comes across as budget - especially in a lot of parts of the second half - and that also reflects in the pacing + writing. It feels like they wrote the show as it went along and because of that a lot of its attempts at a theme come across as extremely transitory when a few characters/plot devices regularly get sidelined for something new. It shoots for Gurren Lagann in ambition without having as palpable of a progression; when the show settles for a new arc it usually fastforwards through the biggest challenges which is often made frustrating by Ryuko kinda getting her ass kicked for most of the time. She doesn't really feel like she becomes a solid protagonist until the very end of the show, while Satsuki is the one who gets to keikaku her way throughout the events of the entire series.

Then again, these are similar criticisms of Little Witch Academia and that's my favorite Trigger show - one that I only got to watch when I marathoned it which made for a perfect watch. I haven't rewatched KLK since I first saw it but I may give it a marathon one of these days; my biggest annoyance with the series was largely waiting every week for a new episode due to how unsatisfying it felt like it always left off.

Overall a pretty decent-good show that felt like it needed way more time in the oven. It's got some real flaws but I can see why people still think of it as one of the definitive Trigger shows; warts and all.

Einchy · Jan 3, 2020

I'd die for anime tiddies.

Mendrox · Jan 3, 2020

NotLiquid said:
I feel like this show had all the right ingredients going for it but just a poor form when it came to the assembly. The characters and their designs are wonderful; it's the one part about it that still sticks to me after having seen the series (plus some of the music). If there's one thing I can't fault Trigger for it's their ability to strike an impression with their cast. They make heroes that you want to see succeed and they make villains that you just love to despise, and the characters alone were enough for me to look forward to Kill La Kill IF.

I think what ultimately held this show back is time. It feels like a show that should've been made years later than it did, when Trigger were a more established studio, since despite how the show manages to make multiple action scenes pop thanks to Imaishi and Sushio's stellar propensity for keyframes, the animation comes across as budget - especially in a lot of parts of the second half - and that also reflects in the pacing + writing. It feels like they wrote the show as it went along and because of that a lot of its attempts at a theme come across as extremely transitory when a few characters/plot devices regularly get sidelined for something new. It shoots for Gurren Lagann in ambition without having as palpable of a progression; when the show settles for a new arc it usually fastforwards through the biggest challenges which is often made frustrating by Ryuko kinda getting her ass kicked for most of the time. She doesn't really feel like she becomes a solid protagonist until the very end of the show, while Satsuki is the one who gets to keikaku her way throughout the events of the entire series.

Then again, these are similar criticisms of Little Witch Academia and that's my favorite Trigger show - one that I only got to watch when I marathoned it which made for a perfect watch. I haven't rewatched KLK since I first saw it but I may give it a marathon one of these days; my biggest annoyance with the series was largely waiting every week for a new episode due to how unsatisfying it felt like it always left off.

Overall a pretty decent-good show that felt like it needed way more time in the oven. It's got some real flaws but I can see why people still think of it as one of the definitive Trigger shows; warts and all.

Well for that:

Initially we were making a battle-manga type show, but it changed to character drama. The battle-show planned for a complete story ended up becoming a work where regular characters' development/drama will be thoroughly explored. The work coincidentally became much more interesting from there.

I: The heroine (Ryuuko Matoi)'s personality changed, too.

N: Ryuuko was initially a completed character. But after the changes in script, she became the type of character where one would get involved in incidents by circumstance, and we made it so the viewer and the heroine would discover what's happening in this world at the same time. Ryuuko therefore became a character with much more vitality.

I: We thought we'd go all out with the best elements from shonen manga. We decided to make this work one where the audience can feel strongly about the main character with a diversity of emotions.

With KLK, the whole staff (with me included) submit ideas, like "Hey, this would be cool", and the series' layout keeps changing. It's really a live production. If anything, it's quite similar to the experience I had when I was producing weekly manga. With weekly manga, you keep developing/making things in the direction the characters are moving, so it's really fun. KLK gave me that vibe.

crimsonECHIDNA · Jan 3, 2020

Bjoern said:
The whole anime is basically a deconstruction of fanservice in anime.
I thought that was really obvious.

I mean, not really. Deconstructing is when you're analyzing the contradictions or flaws of a trope. Kill la KIll doesn't actually do that. It's like when people call Eva a deconstruction of Mecha Anime.

If anything, Kill la Kill is more along the lines of Bayonetta where the fanservice is so excessive it reach the absurdess level. But it doesn't help that most of the leads are underage and then they push it too far with the Ragyo stuff.

silva1991 · Jan 3, 2020

Totally agree and that was exactly my reaction. I was like anime mus be in terrible state if this is considered good.

Valkerion · Jan 3, 2020

I enjoyed this show but I'd never defend against any detractors for it. I personally enjoy media that goes all in on stupid themes though. I liked its commentary on society, Japan, and how clothing perceptions dominate a persons first impressions of you. Like Guren before it, there are some interesting head nod inducing topics behind the absolutely insane costumes and seizure inducing animation.

In general the whole "the crazyness is the point mannnn!" type media don't do well because of how nuts the surface level is. Seems pretty common in the anime world as well.

Skittles · Jan 3, 2020

The series is so badly written to the point I question a person's intelligence if they say it's satire, parody, or a deconstruction of anything. For example, the show should have never happened narrative wise. As it was revealed that ryuko's father had been molesting her for a good chunk of her. Why in the fuck would she care who killed him? Should have been a "thanks random person" and that's the end of the show. Straight garbage, the whole show

HardRojo · Jan 3, 2020

Worst of all is you'll find people here defending this piece of shit show that terribly sexualizes children, it's really disgusting. "Oh b-but there's a reason her armor is like that! Shut up!". I have no respect for people who defend this show, and yes, the rape implications are sickening.
Edit: I also remember reading some creepy shit about the author, which wasn't surprising after the 2 or 3 eps of the show I watched.

DFG · Jan 3, 2020

Skittles said:
The series is so badly written to the point I question a person's intelligence if they say it's satire, parody, or a deconstruction of anything. For example, the show should have never happened narrative wise. As it was revealed that ryuko's father had been molesting her for a good chunk of her. Why in the fuck would she care who killed him? Should have been a "thanks random person" and that's the end of the show. Straight garbage, the whole show

Can you tell me more? What's up with her dad?

HardRojo said:
Worst of all is you'll find people here defending this piece of shit show that terribly sexualizes children, it's really disgusting. "Oh b-but there's a reason her armor is like that! Shut up!". I have no respect for people who defend this show, and yes, the rape implications are sickening.

Well, Dragon Ball isn't any better. Anime has a lot of issues, and possibly Japanese culture if it's normalised.

HardRojo · Jan 3, 2020

DFG said:
Well, Dragon Ball isn't any better. Anime has a lot of issues, and possibly Japanese culture if it's normalised.

The Roshi stuff was a product of its time and, fortunately enough, Super has reduced the creepy stuff from him and even dedicated an episode to him supposedly overcoming that shit, let's just hope it sticks and the ToP will be the last time we see Roshi like that. Also, you can't seriously compare the Dragon Ball stuff (even the old stuff) with the shit you see in KLK, come on.

Deleted member 15227 · Jan 3, 2020

DFG said:
What the fuck. I saw this anime with high rating and said why not, went in blind. I've heard of it before and wanted to check out what the fuss was about couple years back. I'm not going to avoid adding images because, oh boy are they super NSFW.
My god, what is up with all this perv imagery? To make it worse, from the three epsidoes I watched, there were so many rape implications and sexual harassment of these underage girls. Oof man, not a good look.
Apart from those, it felt so brain dead and so in your face. Let me breathe and take in what's actually happening.
Was this made from a wet dream or something?

It did have really good animation though, but what a waste.

Glad I wasn't the only one that felt this way. I tried one and half episodes before giving it the proverbial toss. Garbage.

Crashman · Jan 3, 2020

Skittles said:
The series is so badly written to the point I question a person's intelligence if they say it's satire, parody, or a deconstruction of anything. For example, the show should have never happened narrative wise. As it was revealed that ryuko's father had been molesting her for a good chunk of her. Why in the fuck would she care who killed him? Should have been a "thanks random person" and that's the end of the show. Straight garbage, the whole show

Ryuko's father never did that. You're probably confusing him with Ragyo somehow.

Sander VF · Jan 3, 2020

HardRojo said:
Edit: I also remember reading some creepy shit about the author, which wasn't surprising after the 2 or 3 eps of the show I watched.

Could you go into detail?

Master Alucard · Jan 3, 2020

what a great anime

RedHoodedOwl · Jan 3, 2020

Skittles said:
The series is so badly written to the point I question a person's intelligence if they say it's satire, parody, or a deconstruction of anything. For example, the show should have never happened narrative wise. As it was revealed that ryuko's father had been molesting her for a good chunk of her. Why in the fuck would she care who killed him? Should have been a "thanks random person" and that's the end of the show. Straight garbage, the whole show

Ragyo molesting Satsuki was unsettling.

MOTHGOD · Jan 3, 2020

I liked it. Its one of those anime where you can turn your brain off and enjoy some super loud and obnoxious fun. That isn't to say it doesn't have its problems. I haven't seen it in a while but Im sure its still stupid fun but might also not hold up so well to today's standards (whatever that may be).

Skyebaron · Jan 3, 2020

I just remember it as that finely animated anime where the mom fingers her daughter cause of fashion. Other than that, i didint like it.

Skittles · Jan 3, 2020

Crashman said:
Ryuko's father never did that. You're probably confusing him with Ragyo somehow.

Theres a scene towards the end where she talks about how her outfit got fit and she mentions how her father inappropriatly touches her multiple times

janoGX · Jan 3, 2020

I need to watch this series again. Dammit.

HardRojo · Jan 3, 2020

Sander VF said:
Could you go into detail?

There was a thread a long time ago that mentioned it, someone brought it up and, when I read it, it made sense seeing as how creepy and terrible KLK was. I don't recall exactly what it was, but maybe someone more knowledgeable can post the stuff.

NotLiquid · Jan 3, 2020

As an aside, "it wouldn't hold up to today's standards" is a strange sentiment to me. The anime only just passed its fifth anniversary and recently had a major video game come out, the whole idea that it's "dated" makes it sound like it's over two decades old. The elements that were criticized now were just as criticized back then.

mrmickfran · Jan 3, 2020

It's baaaaad

That's not an anime that I can ever go back to. Fantastic animation and music though

Oeufcoque · Jan 3, 2020

I'm huge Imaishi fan and I still haven't watched KLK. It just doesn't look appealing at all.

Forkball · Jan 3, 2020

You don't GET it man. It's supposed to be bad!

Bet you feel like an idiot now.

Kewlmyc · Jan 3, 2020

It was stupid fun, while other parts of it were just stupid. I get why people like it, but at the same time, I can fully understand not liking it.

It's no Gurren Lagann, but it's probably the 4th best Trigger work. It's better than Darling of the Franxx at least.

sphagnum · Jan 3, 2020

KLK was fully aware of its own stupidity and lewdness, so I don't have a problem with it. It was pretty funny.

Arkeband · Jan 3, 2020

I also stopped watching it after a half dozen episodes. I get that it's kind of a parody of certain tropes but ultimately all it is are those tropes, making the parody redundant.

Malovis · Jan 3, 2020

Trash, like most of anime these days. It's even worse when this perv stuff, such as the case here, tries to disguise itself as anything else.

RPTGB · Jan 3, 2020

It's awesome, it's no Inferno Cop though.

Carlius · Jan 3, 2020

Pffff...one of the best animes ever

SolVanderlyn · Jan 3, 2020

I hate everything about this show. I had the same reaction as you, OP, in 2013.

Kunka Kid · Jan 3, 2020

It's completely and utterly insane, and I like that.

Cerulean_skylark · Jan 3, 2020

It was fun until all the incest rape :(

Krauser Kat · Jan 3, 2020

this show is fucking creepy and it knows it and just because it knows it doesnt make it good media or worth while at all

Poppy · Jan 3, 2020

i honestly dont think kill la kill would have worked for me even with way more intelligent people working on it

at the time i was legit angry at anyone saying that it was like, totally something more than an excuse for shit that average anime viewing boys want to see

RPTGB said:
It's awesome, it's no Inferno Cop though.

aint that the truth

Sander VF · Jan 3, 2020

HardRojo said:
There was a thread a long time ago that mentioned it, someone brought it up and, when I read it, it made sense seeing as how creepy and terrible KLK was. I don't recall exactly what it was, but maybe someone more knowledgeable can post the stuff.

Like, are we talking about Imaishi here or someone else?

Froli · Jan 3, 2020

Yeah I didn't like it at all

Dodongo · Jan 3, 2020

I tried to watch it, but the constant rape jokes were too much

SENPAIatLARGE · Jan 3, 2020

I thought it was cool when I was a teenager in high school. It's hard to justify or defend now that I've grown up and my taste in media has matured, but I'm not going to lie and act like I didn't think it was the hottest thing out back in 2013.

Isilia · Jan 3, 2020

Wife made me sit through this travesty. I won't say there is nothing good in the show, but the bad parts just engulf it.

Thankfully, she hasn't wanted to watch it again.

Rob · Jan 3, 2020

I loved a lot of what it had going—animation, music, characters—but fuck does it get problematic fucking quick.

kittens · Jan 3, 2020

I couldn't get past the first episode

Doomguy Fieri · Jan 3, 2020

Everytime the fan service in Kill La Kill is described as satire I think of this classic Onion article:

https://local.theonion.com/ironic-porn-purchase-leads-to-unironic-ejaculation-1819565403

JCG · Jan 3, 2020

It's a rather problematic yet entertaining and arguably stylish action show. There's a lot to say about it.

The series simultaneously incorporated nudity and fanservice into its over the top narrative about clothing in an uncommon way, which is interesting as a novelty, while nevertheless still being a very hypersexualized example of numerous tropes. Not all of which are in good taste or respectful of women.

That doesn't mean everyone has to like the show, of course not, but it's still possible to enjoy something after you acknowledge it also has issues.

Here's a good write-up on the subject:

My Fave is Problematic: Kill la Kill - Anime Feminist

I discovered Kill la Kill when a PowerPoint showed up on my Tumblr dash arguing that it was a feminist anime and people should give it a chance. Since I was a feminist, I figured I could give my verdict on whether the anime was feminist or not—although in hindsight, that wasn’t the question I...

www.animefeminist.com

Spinky · Jan 3, 2020

When I was in my early teens, I was a giant weeb. Then I fell off it. Years later, I tried to get back into anime for some reason, and I chose Kill La Kill just because it was on Netflix and one of my friends liked it.

It was quite fucking unsuccessful. I am constantly baffled that this show is so popular. Ryuko was kinda cool but the fanservice was so unbelievably cringe, some of the humour was baffling to me (Mako got annoying), and I didn't really care about what was going on anyway.

I'll stick to LWA...

Ebnas · Jan 3, 2020

Fun show to watch once. The pacing is crazy good as well as the animation. Ass is hometown.

Kill La Kill made me cringe out of my skull

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