Kill La Kill made me cringe out of my skull

[molnizzle]

I like the people who watch Kill la Kill and go, "this is the reason I don't watch anime." Like, what the hell were you expecting when you saw scantily clad girls whose power comes from their outfits?

Like, I could list a dozen fantastic series devoid of fanservice off the top of my head, but these people always land on the worse examples and go, "yep, this is anime alright."

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I wasn't expecting anything and I haven't watched even a trailer for this show because I'm a regular person who doesn't watch anime.

I'm just saying, if you don't want to see embarrassing artwork of underage girls in problematic situations, one of your top ways to avoid it is to just stop with the anime.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I wasn't expecting anything and I haven't watched even a trailer for this show because I'm a regular person who doesn't watch anime.

I'm just saying, if you don't want to see embarrassing artwork of underage girls in problematic situations, one of your top ways to avoid it is to just stop with the anime.

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I didn't mean you, I was just using that comment as a stepping stone for those sentiments I've seen expressed in this thread. The people who talk about disliking that stuff the most always seem to gravitate towards shows that feature it prominently.

Kill la Kill is kind of an exception, though, since through some weird circumstance it became more mainstream than something like it should ever have been.

 

[FLEABttn]

Why after all these years someone hasn't invented a Creepy Anime Bullshit scale that we could just rate all anime on... "I'm looking for an anime, I'm okay if it's a 3.0 or lower on the CAB scale." "This show is great, you'll love it, as long as you're able to handle handle a 7.0 on the CAB scale."

There is too much ambiguity, and straight up dishonesty with a lot of anime fans. You see people straight face recommend shows like Made In Abyss while completely hand waving all of the troubling sexualization of children for instance.

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Because the most visible parts of the English speaking fandom are problematic and either don't see a problem with the creepy parts, love the creepy parts openly, love the creepy parts but don't want to be judged by their love of them and downplay them, don't love the creepy parts but don't want to be judged by association and downplay them, or are so brain poisoned by anime that their internal Creepy Anime Bullshit scale is completely broken. And as an example, the old place had a thread for OreImo where a large contingent of the posters were in denial about the incest themes, despite the name literally telling you it was incest anime.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Some people in this thread ignore that KLK is a show about people fighting alien clothes that are enslaving humanity. Nudity in this context makes sense, however i agree that is disturbing, and the authors should have aged the characters because the show doesn't get anything from them being underaged. The whole story and events would be the same but it would be way less creepy.

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i don't think that anyone is oblivious to this

now. That said. The target audience of this and most other anime is teenage boys so I do kinda of get why the main characters are sexualized teenagers.

i do not approve or condone it but I recognize the cynical game at play

it also just so happens that adults will also happily oggle teenage bodies and that's gross but that's the way it is

should anime studios be catering to such juvenile markets? It seems that is where the money is.

 

[HiLife]

The most creepy thing about anime in general. It really kills my interest in the shows when it happens.

 

[staedtler]

never heard of it so i checked it out....seems like one of those shows you don't tell people you watch because it's pretty high on the yikes factor

 

[Manu]

Remember when Anita made her Women in Videogames series, and she literally ended every single video with "it's possible to enjoy a work while criticizing its problematic aspects."

Meanwhile this thread is all "if you enjoy this in any way you're a bad person."

 

[Ashlette]

Show your relatives this anime, and they will understand that its plethora of fanservice is a deconstruction of anime over the past 20 years.

Yup. Go for it.

 

[HStallion]

No it doesn't. Alien clothes enslaving humanity could entail whatever the writers wanted it to.

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Which is even funnier as everyone ends up using said alien clothing anyways

 

[mute]

Show your relatives this anime, and they will understand that its plethora of fanservice is a deconstruction of anime over the past 20 years.

Yup. Go for it.

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Watched a new episode blind with my mother in law at the house and it was a good time lol.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Some people in this thread ignore that KLK is a show about people fighting alien clothes that are enslaving humanity. Nudity in this context makes sense,

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Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds

 

[Manu]

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds

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Is there something inherently wrong with a ridiculous premise?

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Is there something inherently wrong with a ridiculous premise?

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When it's a way to contextualize underage people being sexualized? Yeah

 

[TissueBox]

AGREED, agreed. Too much octane, too little flavor to keep it on the tongue. As opposed to FLCL.

 

[Ashlette]

Watched a new episode blind with my mother in law at the house and it was a good time lol.

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She has to watch the whole series for your experience to count. She has to watch every scene, even *that* one.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Show your relatives this anime, and they will understand that its plethora of fanservice is a deconstruction of anime over the past 20 years.

Yup. Go for it.

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Watched it for Christmas with the entire extended family. After the 25th consecutive episode, the family was not only still wide-eyed and bushy tailed, but their quality of life had immensely increased. My grandmother returned to college and got her degree designing skyscrapers and stadiums for fascist regimes. My aunt disappeared into the Pentagon's intelligence community to pursue a career in wargames. Even our wee toddlers had become well-versed in various strains of complex philosophical ideas, such as Baudrillard's idea of Simulacra, and could hold discussions for hours at a time on post-grad subjects. Even I benefitted. After inheriting my grandmother's fortune from her years of lucrative design work, I invested in several Silicone Valley smart-clothing lines. I am currently writing this post from the navigator's seat of my new jet, on my way to Tokyo's Harajuku prefecture in my 85,000 dollar Ryuuko Matoi cosplay.

Kill la Kill saved my family.

 

[Ashlette]

Watched it for Christmas with the entire extended family. After the 25th consecutive episode, the family was not only still wide-eyed and bushy tailed, but their quality of life had immensely increased. My grandmother returned to college and got her degree designing skyscrapers and stadiums for fascist regimes. My aunt disappeared into the Pentagon's intelligence community to pursue a career in wargames. Even our wee toddlers had become well-versed in various strains of complex philosophical ideas, such as Baudrillard's idea of Simulacra, and could hold discussions for hours at a time on post-grad subjects. Even I benefitted. After inheriting my grandmother's fortune from her years of lucrative design work, I invested in several Silicone Valley smart-clothing lines. I am currently writing this post from the navigator's seat of my new jet, on my way to Tokyo's Harajuku prefecture in my 85,000 dollar Ryuuko Matoi cosplay.

Kill la Kill saved my family.

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I am a top sniper in the navy seals and I approve this message.

 

[Mekanos]

As an aside, "it wouldn't hold up to today's standards" is a strange sentiment to me. The anime only just passed its fifth anniversary and recently had a major video game come out, the whole idea that it's "dated" makes it sound like it's over two decades old. The elements that were criticized now were just as criticized back then.

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Ehhhhhhh.

I was on Tumblr when the show was airing and while it definitely was somewhat controversial with the social justice crowd - people took lots of potshots against the "fanservice is deconstructed!" angle - stuff like the rape imagery and sexualization of underage characters were basically swept under the rug by those of us who watched it. I've seen a lot of those same people now renounce the show. I feel like the dialogue on both of those subjects has changed remarkably in the last 7 years, obviously the show still has a huge fanbase, but I feel like progressives were a lot more forgiving of those elements back then compared to now. That's just my own anecdotal intuition, anyway.

 

[mute]

She has to watch the whole series for your experience to count. She has to watch every scene, even *that* one.

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I'm pretty sure it was earlier on because I remember it having the full transformation sequences not the abbreviated ones, which raised a few eyebrows. I'm not sure I'd survive sitting down and watching anything for 25 episodes with her though, she's too trumpy now.

 

[Kinanza]

It's...ok

but then I saw the scene with Satsuki x Ragyo

I just watched some mother daughter incest.

 

[Dennis8K]

Some people in this thread ignore that KLK is a show about people fighting alien clothes that are enslaving humanity. Nudity in this context makes sense

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When you put it like that it becomes clear the writers had no choice. The story forced their hand! Whatcha gonna do?

 

[Zoid]

Sorry you didn't like one of the greatest anime of all time, OP.

 

[Swiggins]

I get why people don't enjoy it and it's definitely not for everyone, but I wasn't bothered by the fanservice in KLK because it was so absurd and over the top that it almost felt like self-parody at a certain point.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Honestly I feel like the public discourse for the sexualization of minors, rape jokes, etc. was waaaaaaaay different in anime fandom in 2013 than it is now, maybe that's just the bad circles I was in but this show was seen as racy but acceptable at the time. If it came out today I can see it being received very differently.

Imaishi's work usually has elements of this but KLK really went full damn throttle. Promare is a bit more reigned in... but it's also a movie and not a late night anime.

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The cultural tolerance threshold for this kind of thing skyrocketed in the 2010s. The stuff you could get away with in 2011 would have you "cancelled" immediately in 2019.

Totally natural part of cultural discourse.

 

[NotLiquid]

Ehhhhhhh.

I was on Tumblr when the show was airing and while it definitely was somewhat controversial with the social justice crowd - people took lots of potshots against the "fanservice is deconstructed!" angle - stuff like the rape imagery and sexualization of underage characters were basically swept under the rug by those of us who watched it. I've seen a lot of those same people now renounce the show. I feel like the dialogue on both of those subjects has changed remarkably in the last 7 years, obviously the show still has a huge fanbase, but I feel like progressives were a lot more forgiving of those elements back then compared to now. That's just my own anecdotal intuition, anyway.

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I didn't "like" the anime as much as some but I remember GAF already had quite a few people criticizing the show back in the day, mocking Ryuko's design the moment the Senketsu outfit concepts made their way onto the web. I don't really think KLK would be more or less differently received today than it was back then because the show in general is just too absurd to read into. A lot of anime still comes out to this day - much of it way more mainstream than KLK - with problematic elements, and despite many people acknowledging the problems they have they still don't deter the audience they build.

 

[Wanderer5]

There are things that I really enjoy about KLK, like the lovely style, fun animation, and Mako everything lol, but there is no defending the fanservice. It can be quite off putting, especially with shit like Satsuki getting freaking raped by her mom.

 

[PtM]

The whole anime is basically a deconstruction of fanservice in anime.
I thought that was really obvious.

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Sounds like it went the Xenoblade 2 route there.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I used to enjoy it back when I was younger.

Now? My tastes have changed and I am glad for that.

 

[Instro]

It's a mediocre series in a lot of ways, with a ton of bad elements. The problem is a lot of anime fans like really garbage shows, and have generally bad taste, so user ratings on this kind of stuff can lead you to watching things that are pretty bad.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Just finished reading this thread.
Are some of you really defending it by saying alien clothes is the reason "fan service" exists?

Nah, that's bullshit. The reason for nudity is the creators wanting to sexualize the characters. When I watched it, it didn't look or feel like parody.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

ITT: Breathing through the skin.

 

[Apath]

I couldn't get past the first few episodes for the same reasons you described.

 

[Htown]

honestly in hindsight Mako shenanigans are the only thing keeping this show from being a goddamn dumpster fire

The whole anime is basically a deconstruction of fanservice in anime.
I thought that was really obvious.

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it's not though

the show isn't really deconstructing anything, they're just doing the thing except with jokes

I get why people don't enjoy it and it's definitely not for everyone, but I wasn't bothered by the fanservice in KLK because it was so absurd and over the top that it almost felt like self-parody at a certain point.

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right, and then the show reached that point, and then passed it, and wrapped back around, and just kept going for like six more laps

i mean sure, to some degree "that's the joke", but at some point "the joke" just gets old

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Just finished reading this thread.
Are some of you really defending it by saying alien clothes is the reason "fan service" exists?

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The problem with anime culture is that the more common argument is that the fanservice is predicated on the plot needing alien clothes, not that the plot revolving around alien clothes was chosen to motivate fanservice in the story

 

[Wolfe]

Remember someone recommending it a while a go. It is frankly an embarazada and, yeah, cringe all the way through. Cant take anyone's opinion seriously after the admit to even liking it.

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It's ok, I can't take yours seriously after this post. 😝

Also it's what? Pregnant? (google search is failing me on that word maybe)

 

[Mekanos]

I didn't "like" the anime as much as some but I remember GAF already had quite a few people criticizing the show back in the day, mocking Ryuko's design the moment the Senketsu outfit concepts made their way onto the web. I don't really think KLK would be more or less differently received today than it was back then because the show in general is just too absurd to read into. A lot of anime still comes out to this day - much of it way more mainstream than KLK - with problematic elements, and despite many people acknowledging the problems they have they still don't deter the audience they build.

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People were criticizing it in the context of being a stupid wacky fanservice anime though, not really as much about the constant rape imagery and sexualization of underage characters. I feel like that's one of the bigger differences in the discourse since it aired.

 

[tsampikos]

As bad as all that is OP the worst offender for me is that its just not good

Even if you can brush the sexuality aside its just not a good story

 

[alex.magnus]

I've never watched kill la kill so I can't really chime in, but at the point I'd love to hear OP's opinion on food wars

 

[PennyStonks]

I grew out of anime when I realized anything new was mostly made for creeps and weirdos. See Kill La Kill.

 

[Masoyama]

It's ok, I can't take yours seriously after this post. 😝

Also it's what? Pregnant? (google search is failing me on that word maybe)

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I meant embarrassing. Vacationing in Portugal so I had my phones autocorrect to Portuguese and was typing on the train. To recap, that show is an embarrassment.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

KLK is bascially The "Just Jokes" Justification: The Anime. It simply indulges in the same stupid shit as a lot of other series, but because it has a thin veneer of humor slapped on it people automatically assume it must be some sort of deep, biting satire and that therefor everything about it is A-OK.

 

[Deleted member 31092]

KLK is a Gunbuster/FLCL anime but without any of their substance, I personally think it's because TRIGGER doesn't really have any remarkable writer that can "reedem" a show that is just tits and butts for fun.

 

[Dever]

It's like it's doing some meta commentary/criticism of fanservice, but at the same it's just doing fanservice. I don't remember much about it anymore, but I do remember thinking it kinda fell apart in the second half
It was pretty fun though, and definitely better than your average anime imo.

 

[daegan]

Remember when Anita made her Women in Videogames series, and she literally ended every single video with "it's possible to enjoy a work while criticizing its problematic aspects."

Meanwhile this thread is all "if you enjoy this in any way you're a bad person."

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There is way way way too much of this on both sides of this forum in general right now. I'm not sure when it became impossible to discuss these things without vilifying people but damn.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

KLK is a Gunbuster/FLCL anime but without any of their substance, I personally think it's because TRIGGER doesn't really have any remarkable writer that can "reedem" a show that is just tits and butts for fun.

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Yeah it's like a 50 foot swimming pool that's only 2 inches deep. But the first 2 inches are super cool... then the last 2 are kinda lame.

 

[SchrodingerC]

The anime very much feels like a "having its cake and eating it too" type 'parody'.

 

[Kyuur]

For me, it gets away with it via a combination of male fan service and thematic tie ins. Some people have a zero tolerance for this stuff and that's okay.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

When you put it like that it becomes clear the writers had no choice. The story forced their hand! Whatcha gonna do?

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reminds me of the girl in gurren lagann wearing nearly nothing because of the climate or some shit

 

[R0b1n]

Originated by the philosopher Jacques Derrida, deconstruction is an approach to understanding the relationship between text and meaning. Derrida's approach consisted of conducting readings of texts looking for things that run counter to the intended meaning or structural unity of a particular text. The purpose of deconstruction is to show that the usage of language in a given text, and language as a whole, are irreducibly complex, unstable, or impossible.

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Miller has described deconstruction this way: "Deconstruction is not a dismantling of the structure of a text, but a demonstration that it has already dismantled itself. Its apparently solid ground is no rock, but thin air."

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I took these "definitions" of deconstruction from Wikipedia. I'll admit I haven't watched the series, but I am quite intrigued by the deconstruction mentions in this thread. Could someone who watched the show explain briefly how (or if) KLK does any of that? I think a deconstruction of anime fan service would be quite interesting and I haven't seen any of that before

 

[Messofanego]

Kill La Kill is not deconstructionist or satire. It's not criticising oversexualisation of underage girls. It's just lampshading.

Some people in this thread ignore that KLK is a show about people fighting alien clothes that are enslaving humanity. Nudity in this context makes sense, however i agree that is disturbing, and the authors should have aged the characters because the show doesn't get anything from them being underaged. The whole story and events would be the same but it would be way less creepy.

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Why would they age the characters up when it's clear their demographic is young straight boys?

Isn't there an anime that uses lore justifications for why there's a lot of rape? A woman needed to be near naked because her skin has to breathe and we should be ashamed of our words and deeds? Like you can make up anything you want to excuse a lot of horrendous shit.