Kingdom Come: Deliverance is one of the best RPG'S I've ever played

[Deleted member 45414]

Most people here aren't defending Vavra. They're simply defending their right to play the game and enjoy it and not have to constantly apologise for themselves, which is fair enough really.

The game isn't some nazi propaganda product, it doesn't contain overt right wing messages, in fact it contains far fewer right wing messages than many militaristic, imperialist American games. Vavra has awful views, yep. But 15 years ago, people with Vavra's views dominated video games, both development and journalism. The amount of progressive voices was miniscule. But do you really think all those old school reactionaries have just left the industry, or changed their views? Of course not, they just keep quiet. The political situation is very, very different in Czechia, and American-style 'political correctness' (for want of a better term) doesn't have the same power, so people who hold problematic political views are much more likely to just state them.

But basically, video games are historically one of the most right wing art forms ever. If you think it's your moral mission not to consume any art made by problematic people, I would suggest that you don't play any games made by studios which existed pre-Gamergate, any games made in countries with lax labour laws, any games by studios which have shareholders etc etc. And no, I don't recognise the difference between people who say things offensive towards minority groups, and people who exploit workers, force crunch, pay them terribly. It's crude and offensive when people suggest that one is worse than the other.

But for me, I'm secure enough in my political views, and my understanding of how right wing ideology functions, that I really don't have any issues at all in consuming art made by problematic people. Metropolis is one of my favourite films after all, and that was written by someone who was a Nazi in the most literal sense- she actually worked for Hitler.

Also, like, life in general is pretty miserable, I'm not going to make life worse for myself by removing things I enjoy simply because the people who made it have said or done offensive things. Imagine if I never watched another episode of Father Ted because the writer is a massive transphobe. My life would be significantly worse, and for what? It has no practical benefit to anyone.

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I would hate to view life the way you do.

 

[svacina]

The political situation is very, very different in Czechia, and American-style 'political correctness' (for want of a better term) doesn't have the same power, so people who hold problematic political views are much more likely to just state them.

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Heh, have your heard Trump or his cronies speak? I can assure you people in America have no issues with letting their shitty political opinions be known. Tomio wishes he could be as hardcore as Donald-senpai.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Trying to figure out when the final DLC is out, is it just 2019 some point?

I stand by my earlier thoughts, this seems like a better pickup when the complete edition is out.

I don't believe Cyberpunk will make 2019 so the thirst for a non-Bethesda WRPG is real.

Playing through DQ11 right now just reminds me how bad a rigid JRPG formula holds up. I'll never complete it, just like I couldn't Ni No Kuni 2. Doesn't help both of them have some of the worst soundtracks I've ever heard.

How is the music in this?

 

[IrishNinja]

It's not "a meme" and I find it strange that you call it that, I could have sworn that in another thread you said you belonged to the DSA? The context and history is that he supported GG and complains about virtue signaling and the like. Anyone has the right to boycott him if they like, his twitter is toxic as hell, but I don't think you should be implying that people who buy Kingdom Come: Deliverance or enjoy the game are indifferent to bigotry especially when it's pretty agnostic towards those issues considering it both has a couple questionable things in it while also a couple things that show insight.

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it's a meme-level fallacy when applied to general discussions about boycotts & the like, because it's needlessly dismissive and is quite obviously not the discussion that's being had. it's no different than the poor logic employed by simple shit like "if you boycott (x), you musn't support any other thing".

and choosing to support a bigot in spite of how flagrantly they wish to display said bigotry doesn't leave a lot of other interpretations to me. good that the "historically accurate" game isn't a full-on propaganda piece, i guess?

But 15 years ago

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fantastic, we're talking now

And no, I don't recognise the difference between people who say things offensive towards minority groups, and people who exploit workers, force crunch, pay them terribly. It's crude and offensive when people suggest that one is worse than the other.

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speaking of DSA types: yes, i'm familiar with the "it's class, not race" mess. historically speaking, it's quite a bit more than "people saying offensive things to minority groups", that's a pretty backward analysis but also larger than the topic at hand

But for me, I'm secure enough in my political views, and my understanding of how right wing ideology functions, that I really don't have any issues at all in consuming art made by problematic people. Metropolis is one of my favourite films after all, and that was written by someone who was a Nazi in the most literal sense- she actually worked for Hitler.

Also, like, life in general is pretty miserable, I'm not going to make life worse for myself by removing things I enjoy simply because the people who made it have said or done offensive things. Imagine if I never watched another episode of Father Ted because the writer is a massive transphobe. My life would be significantly worse, and for what? It has no practical benefit to anyone.

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metropolis was made in the 20's. father ted (as i recall) wrapped up in the late '90's. would you support works from massive transphobes & fans of hitler made today? if so, is that because you're so very secure in your political views, or because your values on LGBTQ, being against nazis/fascism and the like simply don't matter to you as much as entertainment does?

 

[Council Pop]

metropolis was made in the 20's. father ted (as i recall) wrapped up in the late '90's. would you support works from massive transphobes & fans of hitler made today? if so, is that because you're so very secure in your political views, or because your values on LGBTQ, being against nazis/fascism and the like simply don't matter to you as much as entertainment does?

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Lmao do offensive views matter more in the present than they did in the past? Pretty sure that fascism was even more of a going concern in the 1920s than it is today. And if you want to reduce all art to a commodity then yeah sure, go to town on your Christian morals.

 

[Reckheim]

Trying to figure out when the final DLC is out, is it just 2019 some point?

I stand by my earlier thoughts, this seems like a better pickup when the complete edition is out.

I don't believe Cyberpunk will make 2019 so the thirst for a non-Bethesda WRPG is real.

Playing through DQ11 right now just reminds me how bad a rigid JRPG formula holds up. I'll never complete it, just like I couldn't Ni No Kuni 2. Doesn't help both of them have some of the worst soundtracks I've ever heard.

How is the music in this?

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pretty epic, parts of it were done by the symphonic orchestra from Praque.

 

[Jamesways]

The soundtrack is one of my favorites, both the beta music and final release.
Rivals Skyrim IMO.

 

[IrishNinja]

Lmao do offensive views matter more in the present than they did in the past? Pretty sure that fascism was even more of a going concern in the 1920s than it is today. And if you want to reduce all art to a commodity then yeah sure, go to town on your Christian morals.

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yes, let's keep on about this academically - as if hate crimes aren't on the rise again this year, as if the contemporary creep towards fascism isn't a thing, as if one's analysis post gg can't see the importance of combating things here & now rather than pontificating about a hundred years ago

thanks for answering my question there

 

[Nephilim]

Started the game and played for 4 hours straight and i can already tell this is gonna be something special. The prologue was actually really well done and surprisingly cinematic.
So far i'm really liking it:)

 

[Arulan]

Started the game and played for 4 hours straight and i can already tell this is gonna be something special. The prologue was actually really well done and surprisingly cinematic.
So far i'm really liking it:)

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I'm glad you're enjoying it.

I was surprised by the prologue as well. The presentation and cut-scenes are handled really well. The first shot showing you Silver Skalitz in the opening, and the scene during your first morning in Talmberg are good examples.

The prologue, despite being limited in where you can go, does a great job of showing you that this world is logically consistent, the details actually matter, and you should behave as such.

 

[Baphomet]

stealth kill + chameleon = game breaker

 

[DrScruffleton]

Super tempted to get this. So is it basically impossible to do everything on your first go? Are the quests actually super strict on time limits? Like say, dead rising 1

 

[Nephilim]

I'm glad you're enjoying it.

I was surprised by the prologue as well. The presentation and cut-scenes are handled really well. The first shot showing you Silver Skalitz in the opening, and the scene during your first morning in Talmberg are good examples.

The prologue, despite being limited in where you can go, does a great job of showing you that this world is logically consistent, the details actually matter, and you should behave as such.

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Yep exactly. What helps a lot for a game like this or for any game basically is that i'm going in totally blind since i never was interested in Kingdom Come until a few days ago. It's really hard for me to stay away from previews and informations if a game really interests me (it's part of the fun to get hyped but it's unhealthy for expectations and of course the spoiler territory), so it's even a breath of fresh air from that standpoint.

As for the game itself, it oozes atmosphere in terms of how authentic it tries to be and that is a huge draw in my book.
Very happy with my purchase.

 

[nillansan]

Where and how was he "signal boosting nazis and spreading their propaganda"? Do you mean the Burzum T-shirts he was wearing? Well, why in that case every game made e.g. after Lovecraft works or inspired by them is not branded as "signal boosting nazis" here as intensely? I mean that Vikernes is a nazi piece of shit without a doubt, but Lovecraft was an even worse nazi piece of shit. Yet somehow game designers who use Lovecraft's works are called out here quite rarely.

What I'm trying to say is that Vávra might just like the music without associating its creator's views with it, just like the people who created e.g. the Call of Cthulhu game might just like some of Lovecraft's work without associating his other views with it. That is, Vávra wearing a Burzum T-shirt is certainly not good, but it doesn't make him a nazi himself straight away, just like creators of the Call of Cthulhu game probably aren't nazis.

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You really went off the rails here. No, I am not referring to the Burzum t-shirt, are you just feigning ignorance? I've seen you participate in previous threads where Vavra's affinity with far-right extremism has been highlighted over and over. There are plenty of receipts available, but you seem to be actively ignoring them. Curious. How about you really make an attempt at reading the posts covering his bigotry before you come batting for a Vavra apologist? Curiously enough you seem to leave out any mention of Gamer Gate, where do you stand on that matter?

What I meant is that while Vávra is the creative director of the game, the game was still made by a large team, and Vávra's work corresponds to a quite small percentage of the total work on the game. So even if you think that "Vávra is a nazi" it's unfair to all the other devs on the team (who have done the vast majority of the actual work on the game) to say that this game was "made by nazis". Also note that if you're a Czech game developer and you want to work on an RPG, working at Warhorse is your only option. So it's not like you can easily leave and find a job you enjoy (in case if you enjoy working on RPGs) at another company if you're working at Warhorse and disagree with Vávra's assholeness.

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I am not being unfair or punishing anyone, are you kidding me? I am not obligated to buy a game just because X number of developers have been working on it for X number of hours/days/years and as a consumer I will try my best to make an informed choice when buying a product. A game that got a bug-eyed nazi signal boosting bigot plastered over it isn't exactly going to make it high up on my priority list. Also, I didn't say the game was made by nazis, Vavra is however the face of Warhorse and Kingdom Come. As I stated earlier in this thread, I followed the Kickstarter very closely before Vavra chose to publicly shit the bed, I watched the development diaries and read the updates, Vavra was plastered all over it.

Highly recommend it, feel sorry for people who got caught up in drama back then and skipped it altogether.

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It must be nice to be in such a privileged position that simply allows you to ignore the problems surrounding the game and framing the people that actually care or are affected about it as "getting caught up in drama". Don't feel sorry though.

Pretty sure that fascism was even more of a going concern in the 1920s than it is today.

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Uhh...

 

[Deleted member 888]

pretty epic, parts of it were done by the symphonic orchestra from Praque.

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Cool!

As long as it's nothing like this



An absolute embarrassment shipping a game like DQ11 with the soundtrack it has. It's a shame reviewers often gloss over music, or don't adjust reviews accordingly when games have genuinely terrible soundtracks.

 

[Paul]

How is the music in this?

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The music itself is great (composed mainly by Jan Valta, who is super talented and actually teaches music composition in my hometown funnily enough), but what is interesting in particular is their adaptive music system, It seamlessly blends music from one into another in a way that I do not think any other game has done yet - usually you get the fadeout and new song starts playing, but in KCD every song has basically connector to other songs so if you are in a forest and enter a cave, music changes seamlessly without fadeout.
Their music programmer did a talk about it if you are interested

 

[Deleted member 888]

The music itself is great (composed mainly by Jan Valta, who is super talented and actually teaches music composition in my hometown funnily enough), but what is interesting in particular is their adaptive music system, It seamlessly blends music from one into another in a way that I do not think any other game has done yet - usually you get the fadeout and new song starts playing, but in KCD every song has basically connector to other songs so if you are in a forest and enter a cave, music changes seamlessly without fadeout.
Their music programmer did a talk about it if you are interested

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Yeah, stuff like this is cool. Even the way God of War handles conversations starting/stopping/resuming depending on what the player does is pushing forward sound design in gaming.

Graphics are graphics, but I really appreciate the attention to detail with sound and a good OST.

 

[CerealKi11a]

Kingdom Come: Deliverance was definitely on my list (albeit near the back) until this thread. I was willing to overlook the creator's stupid ideology because many others worked on the game, but being reminded that THQ Nordic now owns the publisher is enough to show me there's a real problem.

I guess I'll continue to get my fantasy fix from books /shrug

 

[Council Pop]

Uhh...

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Lol maybe actually do some research, instead of relying on the centrist media constantly trying to evoke the threat of impending fascism in order to consolidate its own 'common sense' position. Fascism is more prevalent now than it has been for the last 30 years because of neoliberalism breaking down, but it is nothing compared to the 1920s, when fascist dictators literally ruled Spain and Italy and the ideology was overt, celebrated and very influential in intellectual and artistic circles.

The re-emergence of fascism isn't a sign of the degradation of society or morality or whatever, it's a sign of the slow collapse of capitalism, and it must be combatted as such. Fascist ideology was always going to come to the surface as soon as capitalism was under threat- that's literally it's function. But in the 1920s, the emergence of fascism was the result of imperial countries jostling for power. That era of imperialism is over, and the largest imperial power, the USA, is gradually and thankfully losing influence over the world. Contemporary fascism is the last gasp of imperialism and monopoly capitalism- a dangerous last gasp, just look at Bolsonaro- but one that must be fought but rejecting the centre ground and opting for worker's control of the economy. Basically what I'm saying is that A) fascism is, materially, nowhere near as prevalent now as it was pre-1975, and B) the conditions under which it does exist are incredibly different to the 1920s, immeasurably so.

We can only fight fascism, IMO, from a position of optimism and hope for a socialist future.

 

[Deleted member 14080]

It must be nice to be in such a privileged position that simply allows you to ignore the problems surrounding the game and framing the people that actually care or are affected about it as "getting caught up in drama". Don't feel sorry though.


Uhh...

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You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, right or wrong as it may be, but I can't say I appreciate the passive-aggressive tone.

 

[Mister X]

Cool!

As long as it's nothing like this



An absolute embarrassment shipping a game like DQ11 with the soundtrack it has. It's a shame reviewers often gloss over music, or don't adjust reviews accordingly when games have genuinely terrible soundtracks.

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Something must be wrong with my ears.

There's nothing wrong with that music.

 

[nillansan]

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, right or wrong as it may be, but I can't say I appreciate the passive-aggressive tone.

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I don't appreciate the perfectly valid reasons people have for highlighting the problems surrounding the game being framed as drama.

 

[Famassu]

Also, like, life in general is pretty miserable, I'm not going to make life worse for myself by removing things I enjoy simply because the people who made it have said or done offensive things. Imagine if I never watched another episode of Father Ted because the writer is a massive transphobe. My life would be significantly worse, and for what? It has no practical benefit to anyone.

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Even if there wasn't a single new game, book, movie or other entertainment product release from this day forward, the world has more amazing entertainment in it than you can possibly experience in a single or a dozen lifetimes already (and more is released every day), not to even mention non-gaming/movie/music/book/entertainment industry related ways of enjoying life. If your life would be "much worse" just because you couldn't watch a few hours of a comedy show or play a game, that's just... sad. Instead of watching Father Ted, you could watch something that wasn't made by a raging transphobe. You could read a book from a writer who doesn't want to deny the existence of a group of people. If you want some fun in your life, read some Terry Pratchett. That will give you, like, 50+ GOAT books of fun comedy & insightful commentary on the madness of humankind from a writer who, by all accounts, seems to have been a great person.

 

[nillansan]

Lol maybe actually do some research, instead of relying on the centrist media constantly trying to evoke the threat of impending fascism in order to consolidate its own 'common sense' position.

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As a minority living Europe, I feel like the far right are already doing plenty to evoke the threat of fascism. What do you mean by impending? It's already here.

Fascism is more prevalent now than it has been for the last 30 years because of neoliberalism breaking down, but it is nothing compared to the 1920s, when fascist dictators literally ruled Spain and Italy and the ideology was overt, celebrated and very influential in intellectual and artistic circles.

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I don't think that "At least it isn't as bad as it used to be" is a good metric to go by in this particular case.

The re-emergence of fascism isn't a sign of the degradation of society or morality or whatever, it's a sign of the slow collapse of capitalism, and it must be combatted as such.

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Is this another spin on economic anxiety or am I not reading that right?

 

[Deleted member 14080]

Started the game and played for 4 hours straight and i can already tell this is gonna be something special. The prologue was actually really well done and surprisingly cinematic.
So far i'm really liking it:)

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It gets better. Make sure you take your time with weapon/ combat training (with Bernard, I think, later in the game) and even repeat it few times until the system 'clicks' with you.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Something must be wrong with my ears.

There's nothing wrong with that music.

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It's midi-tastic crap.

The soundtrack for DQ11 about 10 hours in has been nothing short of trash.

 

[Mister X]

It's midi-tastic crap.

The soundtrack for DQ11 about 10 hours in has been nothing short of trash.

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Lol, midi sounds okay to me then.

Maybe I'm playing to many retro games to notice this music is "trash"

 

[Deleted member 888]

Lol, midi sounds okay to me then.

Maybe I'm playing to many retro games to notice this music is "trash"

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IIRC aren't they changing it to an orchestra soundtrack in the Switch version?

I think even Square know it's shit as is.

 

[Freddo]

Even if there wasn't a single new game, book, movie or other entertainment product release from this day forward, the world has more amazing entertainment in it than you can possibly experience in a single or a dozen lifetimes already (and more is released every day), not to even mention non-gaming/movie/music/book/entertainment industry related ways of enjoying life. If your life would be "much worse" just because you couldn't watch a few hours of a comedy show or play a game, that's just... sad. Instead of watching Father Ted, you could watch something that wasn't made by a raging transphobe. You could read a book from a writer who doesn't want to deny the existence of a group of people. If you want some fun in your life, read some Terry Pratchett. That will give you, like, 50+ GOAT books of fun comedy & insightful commentary on the madess of humankind from a writer who, by all accounts, seems to have been a great person.

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Terry Pratchett do indeed seem to have been a great person.

But what about all the people at the publishing company Doubleday, all the people at the printing company or the people at the bookstore or the people taking care of the logistics, there are way too many unknown parameters to support Terry Pratchett. If you're really picky it's not even possible to buy a carrot at a grocery store, cause what if the farmer is an asshole?

 

[Braag]

I enjoyed it but wouldn't exactly call it one of the best. It was pretty janky especially in the combat department and had some odd design decisions.
But the presentation and the story were quite enjoyable.

 

[Alastor3]

Trying to figure out when the final DLC is out, is it just 2019 some point?

I stand by my earlier thoughts, this seems like a better pickup when the complete edition is out.

I don't believe Cyberpunk will make 2019 so the thirst for a non-Bethesda WRPG is real.

Playing through DQ11 right now just reminds me how bad a rigid JRPG formula holds up. I'll never complete it, just like I couldn't Ni No Kuni 2. Doesn't help both of them have some of the worst soundtracks I've ever heard.

How is the music in this?

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the dlc aren't really worth it in my opinion, but if you still haven't played or bought the game yet, yeah you can still wait for the complete package

 

[Council Pop]

Even if there wasn't a single new game, book, movie or other entertainment product release from this day forward, the world has more amazing entertainment in it than you can possibly experience in a single or a dozen lifetimes already (and more is released every day), not to even mention non-gaming/movie/music/book/entertainment industry related ways of enjoying life. If your life would be "much worse" just because you couldn't watch a few hours of a comedy show or play a game, that's just... sad. Instead of watching Father Ted, you could watch something that wasn't made by a raging transphobe. You could read a book from a writer who doesn't want to deny the existence of a group of people. If you want some fun in your life, read some Terry Pratchett. That will give you, like, 50+ GOAT books of fun comedy & insightful commentary on the madness of humankind from a writer who, by all accounts, seems to have been a great person.

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You can do that, sure. But don't police others, especially materialist socialists, who know that it matters not one bit whether or not they personally consume art which was made collaboratively with individuals who hold regressive views, especially individuals who are not generally known for their political views, have no real political influence and whose art contains none of their personal ideology.

Like, the end of this argument, the question "what material difference does this actually make?", is always "well, you might be funding someone with problematic views". And like... so what? As if I'm not already doing that through taxes, through purchasing commodities, through literally buying video games made through years of crunch. Focussing on the actions individuals is the most pointless thing you can actually do, second only to going on the internet and arguing with other people who don't reach your own moral standards. Get active off the internet, join a political party, go on a march, stand as a local counsellor, actually put the work in and support some IRL political projects.

I'm not saying you don't do this, but I'm saying that everyone's time is better spent doing real stuff rather than policing what people like, because the majority of people hold reactionary views, because capitalist propaganda, racism, misogyny and the like are ingrained in every aspect of our society and some people haven't had the opportunity for education which allows them to question that.

It's not even like we're talking about organised, influential Nazis or something, we're talking about some stupid, uninformed guy who holds views that you could find if you walked out onto the street and asked a few people about their political opinions. These are literally the people that we have to win over if we want socialism to progress lmao.

Seriously, some people on here would deem it less problematic to read Ayn Rand than to buy a game which is made by someone who probably has similar views to members of their own family ffs.

Is this another spin on economic anxiety or am I not reading that right?

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Wooooooosh

 

[Artdayne]

Yeah the DLCs have been a bit disappointing so far honestly. The base game is very good though and well worth $60 if you like open world RPGs.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

Picked it up recently and loving it. Bought all the DLCs.

Those of you interested should hop in. TBH the bugs have really not been an issue with me.

Its more of a hardcore RPG (excluding the Hardcore mode which ramps that up). Combat is dependent upon positioning armor etc not really health.

For example, you can kill any NPC with a bow shot to the face if their helmet doesn't cover their face. Anywhere else on the head is not a guarantee kill .

Overall I'm having a blast. I really recommend anyone who is interested giving it a shot. It will seem janky at first but it is supposed to. You are a Blacksmiths son. The combat gets easier as you fight more because you are learning and because your character is getting better with his weapons. Really a unique game.

 

[dantevsninjas]

Terry Pratchett do indeed seem to have been a great person.

But what about all the people at the publishing company Doubleday, all the people at the printing company or the people at the bookstore or the people taking care of the logistics, there are way too many unknown parameters to support Terry Pratchett. If you're really picky it's not even possible to buy a carrot at a grocery store, cause what if the farmer is an asshole?

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Ugh, this is a painfully stupid take. Of course you can't know if everyone involved in a product is on the level, and it's impossible to live in our current society without inflicting some level of harm or supporting some garbage people. No one expects that. However, when the face of your product is out in the open about being a fucking dumpster fire, you can choose not to support that person by buying the product they directly financially benefit from. Trying to use an all or nothing approach as an example is ignorant at best and completely disingenuous at worst.

 

[Jebusman]

Terry Pratchett do indeed seem to have been a great person.

But what about all the people at the publishing company Doubleday, all the people at the printing company or the people at the bookstore or the people taking care of the logistics, there are way too many unknown parameters to support Terry Pratchett. If you're really picky it's not even possible to buy a carrot at a grocery store, cause what if the farmer is an asshole?

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If you do not personally know, or it is not publicly known, if the individuals in the overall process you are indirectly supporting are "bad people" or not, anyone can be excused for supporting a product because humanity should be assuming the best of people until otherwise known.

But Vávra is a known quantity, his shittiness is well documented. Buying the game ultimately supports and rewards him. You have to make the decision on whether or not you're OK with that because "think about all the other people who will be harmed by not buying this game", and then you have to own the consequences.

Someone, at the end of the day, is being harmed. Either the people targeted by Vavra's shitty views (who quite frankly have already been harmed and continue to be), or the innocent until otherwise known people around him and the development of the game.

And the people who are affected by these shitty views, who already have seen harm, I don't blame them one bit for calling out people supporting the game because of this.

Also, like, life in general is pretty miserable, I'm not going to make life worse for myself by removing things I enjoy simply because the people who made it have said or done offensive things. Imagine if I never watched another episode of Father Ted because the writer is a massive transphobe. My life would be significantly worse, and for what? It has no practical benefit to anyone.

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I mean it depends, does an episode of Father Ted magically fly a dollar bill into Graham Linehan's pocket every time you watch it? Does watching it on TV indicate to the network that they should continue to renew the license to broadcast it, and does that license continue to provide material wealth to Graham?

You are essentially spitting in the face of trans activists by complaining about how much worse your life would be without the ability to *looks at notes* watch episodes of a TV show, when all they want to see is at least the idea that people are willing to make sacrifices in their lives to rebuke someone trying to make THEIR lives significantly worse.

The idea that not being able to watch another episode of Father Ted would make your life significantly worse is a fucking joke.

There's a difference between enjoying products and content whose problematic origins are no longer a concern (your Metropolis example, Thea has been dead for over 60 years), versus products whose problematic creators still roam this earth, and still continue to maintain their problematic views.

 

[Azurik]

Are people still going on about if it's morally ok to buy the game? Just give it a rest.

OP expressed how he's enjoying the game and the thread got completely detailed. It's about the game and not who is behind it, views, actions opinions of people. It's about the game and the game only.

Regardless of the actions and behaviour of a person, it doesn't take away that the game is fantastic and made by a lot of talented people not just one individual.

Saying that by buying the game said individual is getting rewarded, does it mean other members of the team won't?

Just close this thread. The pointless conversation is being going on too long.

I personally love the game and most of the team behind it. That's my view. It it better/ worse/ right or wrong compared to others. No.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

Are people still going on about if it's morally ok to buy the game? Just give it a rest.

Op expressed how he's enjoying the game and the thread got completely detailed.

Regardless of the actions and behaviour of a person, it doesn't take away that the game is fantastic and made by a lot of talented people not just one individual.

Saying that by buying the game said individual is getting rewarded, does it mean other members of the team won't?

Just close this thread already!

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TBH I would love some mod to take a stand and let people just talk about the game and not have every thread get derailed into this topic. I'm not sure why its ok for people to just drop in and derail threads on this game.

 

[Jebusman]

TBH I would love some mod to take a stand and let people just talk about the game and not have every thread get derailed into this topic. I'm not sure why its ok for people to just drop in and derail threads on this game.

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Maybe if the creator hadn't been publicly such a shit heel, and people keep jumping through hoops to try and dismiss that, it wouldn't keep happening.

If you want a hugbox to talk about the game in, the OT exists.

 

[TheZodiacAge]

I really loved the game but had sadly at the end a couple bugs that made it annoying to finish when it released
Definitely the 2nd best W-RPG this Gen after Witcher 3 and i really want to see what they could do with a typical AAA Budget

 

[Deleted member 2379]

Maybe if the creator hadn't been publicly such a shit heel, and people keep jumping through hoops to try and dismiss that, it wouldn't keep happening.

If you want a hugbox to talk about the game in, the OT exists.

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Can you point me to the OT? I've never found it.

I just want to understand why people feel the need to continually jump into any thread on this game and dump all over it. Yes the guy has been a shit , but I don't understand why people feel the need to continually jump into these threads and dump the same points over and over again. Like what value do you get from doing that? A moral superiority where you can look down on people who are enjoying the game for what it is?

Why is that worth anyone's time to post over a year later?

 

[Jebusman]

A moral superiority where you can look down on people who are enjoying the game for what it is?

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The fact that you view it like this is exactly the problem.

Someone who may have been directly affected by the actions of GG and indirectly by Vávra's support of it comes in stating "everyone these kind of views are harmful to everyone and we shouldn't be supporting it and the people spreading them", and people are literally jumping over themselves to tell you how A. it doesn't matter because the game is good or B. he's only one person so why should I care.

Time and time again their concerns are just dismissed out of hand because your ability to play a single video game out of the thousands that exists outweighs their want to live in a world that doesn't support people with problematic views.

It's not moral superiority, it's questioning whether people have morals at all. If you want to own the fact that you just "don't care", that's on you. But that doesn't then make you immune to the criticism of doing so. And anyone who comes into this thread and actively tries to dismiss the concerns around Vávra is opening themselves up to be confronted on it.

 

[Reckheim]

Can you point me to the OT? I've never found it.

I just want to understand why people feel the need to continually jump into any thread on this game and dump all over it. Yes the guy has been a shit , but I don't understand why people feel the need to continually jump into these threads and dump the same points over and over again. Like what value do you get from doing that? A moral superiority where you can look down on people who are enjoying the game for what it is?

Why is that worth anyone's time to post over a year later?

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The OT would turn into the same thing after it gets bumped. You just gotta come to terms with it and ignore it tbh. It'll never change.

I also find it funny that if it wasn't for the thread derailers, this thread would be long forgotten.

 

[Council Pop]

The idea that not being able to watch another episode of Father Ted would make your life significantly worse is a fucking joke.

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The idea that anyone could ever cut out every single piece of art made by a problematic person is also a fucking joke. Also, so many of the current 'unproblematic' people will be quite obviously deemed problematic in the future. Just look at loads of second wave feminists and how they were at the forefront of progression, but now their views are understandably unacceptable. Same with LGBT activists. Same with race activists. This is why it's a fucking joke to reduce any of those issues to the level of individuals. Consumer boycotts are an insultingly limp response to huge societal issues. Did Graham Lineham become a transphobe in some sort of bubble? Did he create the ideology all by himself? What about JK Rowling? She's a centrist arsehole and a transphobe, but do I think it's okay to then be a dick to anyone who likes Harry Potter? Come on.

Also, i suffer from severe depression and I hold very dearly onto those things that bring me joy, because there aren't many things that do, and I won't let any pathetic transphobe, or moralist on a video game forum, make me feel bad about that. I also really love Dermot Morgan and his memory and amazing performance in Father Ted should be kept alive.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

The fact that you view it like this is exactly the problem.

Someone who may have been directly affected by the actions of GG and indirectly by Vávra's support of it comes in stating "everyone these kind of views are harmful to everyone and we shouldn't be supporting it and the people spreading them", and people are literally jumping over themselves to tell you how A. it doesn't matter because the game is good or B. he's only one person so why should I care.

Time and time again their concerns are just dismissed out of hand because your ability to play a single video game out of the thousands that exists outweighs their want to live in a world that doesn't support people with problematic views.

It's not moral superiority, it's questioning whether people have morals at all. If you want to own the fact that you just "don't care", that's on you. But that doesn't then make you immune to the criticism of doing so. And anyone who comes into this thread and actively tries to dismiss the concerns around Vávra is opening themselves up to be confronted on it.

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I'm ignoring the people who come in and defend him and by no means am I defending him. The defenders come in because someone from the clouds comes in and complains about him when it was never the point of the discussion. These threads don't start with "I think Vavra is great", they focus on the game that the person is enjoying it and someone flys in and complains about him which was never part of the discussion in the thread. Why is that derailing ok?

We've had countless threads on him and this topic before focused solely on this issue, yet every thread immediately devolves into it even if it was never part of the threads conversation to that point.

 

[Jebusman]

The idea that anyone could ever cut out every single piece of art made by a problematic person is also a fucking joke. Also, so many of the current 'unproblematic' people will be quite obviously deemed problematic in the future. Just look at loads of second wave feminists and how they were at the forefront of progression, but now their views are understandably unacceptable. Same with LGBT activists. Same with race activists. This is why it's a fucking joke to reduce any of those issues to the level of individuals. Consumer boycotts are an insultingly limp response to huge societal issues. Did Graham Lineham become a transphobe in some sort of bubble? Did he create the ideology all by himself? What about JK Rowling? She's a centrist arsehole and a transphobe, but do I think it's okay to then be a dick to anyone who likes Harry Potter? Come on.

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I mean it sounds like you just never want to take personal responsibility for anything, or argue that if you're not doing something at an intensity that you arbitrarily approve of, it's not worth doing at all. As if you can't boycott something ON TOP of trying to make differences in other ways, and constantly making the assumptions of people that this is ALL they are attempting to do is arguing in bad faith.

Don't think I don't see that week ban for anti-semitism, or trying to argue Venezuela had a fairer election than the UK. I honestly don't believe you're being honest in this argument, you just want to be devoid of criticism for supporting problematic parts of life, blaming it on "everything is shit what can you do" as if that were ever an excuse.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

To clarify something: we do not consider conversations about a game's politics or the circumstances of its creation to be off-topic and this does not constitute derailment.

That said, this thread seems to have outlived its productivity and is closed to further replies.