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Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
Cool, I get it. But I know the guy and he does not seems as an asshole, so yeah. And that cloud my judgement too, I am not saying it cannot. After all, he created Mafia, which is pretty much my game of my young life. But I was inside his studio and like there was a lot of female staff, doing whole kinds of things and I respect person privacy so I don't talk to them, only person which I talk to was developer who worked on first Forza Horizon, sorry I cannot handle myself. So I cannot view him as misogynist, women do exactly what men do. I asked him about salaries. And he looked at me as some sort of idiot, I don't blame him...and he told me, that the output matters, not gender/sex (...since he has few trans people in there as well. Should I even leak this info? I mean...for the sake of those individuals, please don't make a big deal of it, especially you, lurkers), he needs game on shelves and those people would want to work with him in the future.

I...I don't know : ( I understand both arguments, BUT...you know. Sorry : (
There was a whole page in the thread of him posting right wing, misogynistic GG propaganda on twitter, pretending to be a victim of a campaign which is boycotting game devs who "aren't sheep". Every time there's an argument about his views you mention that you know him and he seemed like a cool person and you wonder whether you have an unbiased view of him? Just because women work there it doesn't mean anything or are all GGs suddenly gay because they hate women so much?
I mean I have my heroes too and all that but there's a point where you should look at the hard facts and wonder if he represents your views - if so what kind of person does that make you and would you do the same?
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
So the creator of the game is a GGer? I was really excited for this, but I'm more excited to make sure people like this don't see a damn cent of mine. And that one tweet of his about folks in CDPR having like minded views to his would crush me. I'm a huge CDPR fan and really looking forward to Cyberpunk.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I just feel like the devs views are inherently tied to their works. Especially if my purchase goes towards him buying shitty t-shirts and making people with dangerous views all the more richer. That's all I really have to offer here. If a mod wants to remove this post, feel free.
 

anthraxus

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
644
I'm sure there's all types of viewpoints/beliefs from creators of entertainment that I enjoy that don't align with mine.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,176
UK
Here is my question: when the game comes out and people are discussin the game in the official thread, are we going to get heckled and the thread derailed because we still bought the game? Or will it be possible to actually talk about it on this forum?
The game or Vavra might get heckled but I doubt owners of the game would be, unless if you say stuff along the lines of "I'm glad there are no POCs in the game!" or "Vavra is #based".
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
So the creator of the game is a GGer? I was really excited for this, but I'm more excited to make sure people like this don't see a damn cent of mine. And that one tweet of his about folks in CDPR having like minded views to his would crush me. I'm a huge CDPR fan and really looking forward to Cyberpunk.

I mean, I won't say that's a given, but I find it hard to expect otherwise. CDPR alone employs around 500 people.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
There was a whole page in the thread of him posting right wing, misogynistic GG propaganda on twitter, pretending to be a victim of a campaign which is boycotting game devs who "aren't sheep". Every time there's an argument about his views you mention that you know him and he seemed like a cool person and you wonder whether you have an unbiased view of him? Just because women work there it doesn't mean anything or are all GGs suddenly gay because they hate women so much?
I mean I have my heroes too and all that but there's a point where you should look at the hard facts and wonder if he represents your views - if so what kind of person does that make you and would you do the same?
Hell, if anyone wants further proof, just go check his twitter likes. Dude is a full blown alt-right dipshit. It's hilarious people were complaining about "American views" in previous posts here. Dude likes, follows and behaves like every alt-right fuckwit that exists in the internet.
On his amazing collection of likes, you can even find him liking post of conspiracy shit like pizzagate. This dude is garbage.
 
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RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,058
A lot of the post I see here talking about censorship are still... overreacting I guess?

Look, maybe having grown up in a country with a history of government censorship will do that. Maybe I can get being a bit defensive about a game you're making explicitly about your own country's history and culture, which is rare. The point is, those calls for more diversity aren't threatening to forcibly change people's games. It's just criticism, just like criticism of a game's gameplay or graphics or story. People in the end will probably still get some enjoyment out of KCD while criticizing or disagreeing with some of its choices.

And the whole thing about medieval PoC from what I can see is an effort to dispel views of the past that were largely shaped by Hollywood to the point where creators don't even think about it anymore. They're just trying to get new creators to think about it and do the research. It sounds like Warhorse researched the demographics of the area and time? I don't know. Aren't there like, Tartars or Berbers in KCD? I can't remember. I think the problem with Witcher 3 was the source material, which almost didn't touch on anything outside what was clearly based on central and Eastern Europe. Adding to that wouldn've required a lot of detail that wasn't in the source material.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
The game or Vavra might get heckled but I doubt owners of the game would be, unless if you say stuff along the lines of "I'm glad there are no POCs in the game!" or "Vavra is #based".

I mean, I personally think at the very least there should be some sort of discussion to be had. This information is out there now. The game might be great, sure. But because it's a great game, are we not allowed to in some way hold people accountable by supporting the developer through purchasing of the title? I mean, this guy supports a movement that outright represses people. But it's okay because the game is cool, I guess? The supporters of the game don't have to explicitly say that they're glad there are no POC or that Vavra is based, but through supporting his words, thoughts and ideals by supporting his game, it's just making his voice all the more stronger.

Look at someone like Notch for example. An extreme example, but he's got "fuck you" money and can spout all the horrible rhetoric he wants, and people listen. He's got nearly 3.5 million twitter followers because of the renown he got through minecraft. Though the media and general public found out he's a shitty person AFTER the massive success. This is a case of someone being a huge ass BEFORE potential huge success. Why not try to prevent that in some way shape or form?
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
Hell, if anyone wants further proof, just go check his twitter likes. Dude is a full blown alt-right dipshit. It's hilarious people were complaining about "American views" in previous posts here. Dude likes, follows and behaves like every alt-right fucktard that exists in the internet.
Yup, it has absolutely nothing to do with American views. I was born in Russia, my family had horrible experiences in the Soviet Union. It was all but a walk in the park but that doesn't change the fact this person is supporting the alt-right. I can't see the connection here - it doesn't apologize his behavior nor are these people earlier in the thread the spokespersons for the Czech Republic or anyone else.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Cool, I get it. But I know the guy and he does not seems as an asshole, so yeah. And that cloud my judgement too, I am not saying it cannot. After all, he created Mafia, which is pretty much my game of my young life. But I was inside his studio and like there was a lot of female staff, doing whole kinds of things and I respect person privacy so I don't talk to them, only person which I talk to was developer who worked on first Forza Horizon, sorry I cannot handle myself. So I cannot view him as misogynist, women do exactly what men do. I asked him about salaries. And he looked at me as some sort of idiot, I don't blame him...and he told me, that the output matters, not gender/sex (...since he has few trans people in there as well. Should I even leak this info? I mean...for the sake of those individuals, please don't make a big deal of it, especially you, lurkers), he needs game on shelves and those people would want to work with him in the future.

I...I don't know : ( I understand both arguments, BUT...you know. Sorry : (

Sorry, but some of this reads as the equivalent of "How can my cool friend be racist? He has black friends and co-workers!"
 

M1chl

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,054
Czech Republic
There was a whole page in the thread of him posting right wing, misogynistic GG propaganda on twitter, pretending to be a victim of a campaign which is boycotting game devs who "aren't sheep". Every time there's an argument about his views you mention that you know him and he seemed like a cool person and you wonder whether you have an unbiased view of him? Just because women work there it doesn't mean anything or are all GGs suddenly gay because they hate women so much?
I mean I have my heroes too and all that but there's a point where you should look at the hard facts and wonder if he represents your views - if so what kind of person does that make you and would you do the same?
This is tough, that I don't even know how to respond. I would not do the same absolutely not....but I wasn't alive when communism here was alive and well and if someone pressure himself to have a opinion. I guess, I could understand his stance. He could not study, because his parent's was not in "working class" (which means parents with some sort of degree) so he cannot. And this stuff goes on and on and if internet mob told him to say certain things, I am sure that some part of you understand that he reacted in this kind of way. I know him, he is not my friend so I am not going to cover him from his inappropriate deeds. More text I wrote, more I understand that this is not something I could probably explain to you. It's a cultural thing and if you are not familiar with it, you never going to get that... But you can PM and we could talk about it, by all means....
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
LOL at the people whining about what this thread is about. This thread is nearly a month old and had like 2 pages of response. It was a dead thread and nobody was talking about the game.
 

FrequentFlyer

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,273
I mean, I personally think at the very least there should be some sort of discussion to be had. This information is out there now. The game might be great, sure. But because it's a great game, are we not allowed to in some way hold people accountable by supporting the developer through purchasing of the title? I mean, this guy supports a movement that outright represses people. But it's okay because the game is cool, I guess? The supporters of the game don't have to explicitly say that they're glad there are no POC or that Vavra is based, but through supporting his words, thoughts and ideals by supporting his game, it's just making his voice all the more stronger.

Look at someone like Notch for example. An extreme example, but he's got "fuck you" money and can spout all the horrible rhetoric he wants, and people listen. He's got nearly 3.5 million twitter followers because of the renown he got through minecraft. Though the media and general public found out he's a shitty person AFTER the massive success. This is a case of someone being a huge ass BEFORE potential huge success. Why not try to prevent that in some way shape or form?
I don't think anyone is trying to censor discussion about it but rather debating where this discussion should take place, in every news thread about the game or a separate "Vavra-Thread" so to say. Less dramatic here, but in a future OT I can see it being very annoying and seriously hindering actual game discussion when every other page you have a derailment by people who are not actually playing the game or considering to do so and just want to change the topic to Vavra again. So luckily if I understood the Mod correctly the focus of the OT will be to talk about the actual game. That doesn't mean people wouldn't still be able to talk about it in separate threads. I'd even be ok with putting a sort of "Vavra disclaimer" in the OT OP if that means the actual discussion can be about the game with that out of the way. Not that my opinion here particularly matters or I had any say about it.
 

Deleted member 11262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,459
LOL at the people whining about what this thread is about. This thread is nearly a month old and had like 2 pages of response. It was a dead thread and nobody was talking about the game.
I'm talking about the game. I talked a lot about it today after I saw the preview on page 2 and a couple other people did the same. Go to page 2 and look how this thread got bumped.
And what has the amount of pages anything to do with my wish for a thread where we can actually talk about the topic without thread derailing?
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Alright, thanks for the reply.


For what it's worth, a Mod earlier said the OT will be focused on the game itself, if I understood it correctly.
Similar to a hat in time. They've told people to keep the jontron stuff elsewhere. I think it's worth discussing and worth calling out. But when I'm playing the game yeah I want to discuss that in the OT.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
Thank you for this.

Huge rant, not about the game, so you can safely skip it.
Hidden content
You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.


But yeah. can't wait for the game. It looks impressive and I really love how they go for realism instead of vidya g4me super duper awesome fighting.

I totally get what you've written out here and it's important to keep in mind....right up until the end there. I just think it's ironic to say "Have some respect for other humans" in defense of a guy who supports GG and the alt-right.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,100
Like, M1chl and such...

I more than a lot of my american pals here understand a lot of what you are talking about due to studying some of the history there. Believe me, if anyone deserves a game or thousand celebrating their culture it's definitely you guys. Do I think people in the US, mostly due to historical ignorance, apply the white label like a sword equally to peoples who should absolutely not be reduced into a simple ethnic group vs the US? Absolutely they do.

However, it's possible to acknowledge all of this and still think the man is an asshole. The two are independent of each other.
Yep.

Just because someone is nice to you, hangs out with you, is the best man at your wedding or whatever doesn't mean they can't also be a jerk with opinions that need to be called out.

The "don't force your views on us" argument is such a cop out when the reasons people are against Vavra and Gamersgate's views are universal. Its about the overflowing toxicity of gaming thats been building for decades and is now lashing out and trying to ruin people's lives and has become a black eye on the industry.

This is not a uniquely american concept and people trying to dismiss it as such are downplaying what has been a serious problem on the internet for a long time now.
 
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M1chl

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,054
Czech Republic
Sorry, but some of this reads as the equivalent of "How can my cool friend be racist? He has black friends and co-workers!"
No that's not how it works in here. Not even close. And was he ever racist, so you feel, your own "intellectual" input was worth a shot?

Yep.

Just because someone is nice to you, hangs out with you, is the best man at your wedding or whatever doesn't mean they can't also be a jerk with opinions that need to be called out.

The "don't force your views on us" argument is such a cop out when the reasons people are against Vavra and Gamersgate's views are universal. Its about the overflowing toxicity of gaming thats been building for decades and is now lashing out and trying to ruin people's lives and has become a black eye on the industry.

This is not a uniquely american concept and people trying to dismiss it as such are downplaying what has been a serious problem on the internet for a long time now.

Okay fine, so what would you say at my position, as far as I know him, he don't do this. I know him from 2015. I am open to ideas, how to approach this situation, but not some witch hunt stuff, you know...
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
LOL at the people whining about what this thread is about. This thread is nearly a month old and had like 2 pages of response. It was a dead thread and nobody was talking about the game.

A thread that was bumped because a new preview was posted which allowed another opportunity for....this to happen.
 

PetrCobra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
954
Gotta love the derailing. I personally follow Vavra on FB where he mostly posts in Czech so I probably get a more nuanced idea about his views than people reading his Twitter (his English is good but sometimes he struggles to get his point across, also the character limit doesn't help). There's lots of stuff I can't identify with, would even say I consider many things he posts dumb or very overstated. Here and there he posts something I can actually agree with (mostly articles written by people who don't rely on hyperbole as much as Vavra) or at least stuff that makes me think about an issue in a wider context. My general understanding is that he's not a bad person but politically has a very reactionary position... actually wait, is this the correct term? What I mean is every time he thinks some issue is presented in a biased way (especially biased in the direction opposite to the one he finds himself on) he tends to disregard anything he might agree with and concentrates on the disagreements, makes them the central point of his argument. Always cherry picks points to argue in everything, making him sound very asshole-like.

Some of his posts make me think that the studio is quite varied in terms of political views, and that he generally doesn't let politics decide which people to work with, or even which people to go have a few beers with. He sometimes rants about stuff like "this leftist friend of mine said this or that". However, in the online space, he does come across as pretty close minded and dismissive of opposing views. Like he doesn't understand that the plurality of ideas goes both ways, and that one can't exactly accuse people of censorship for expressing their opinion publicly (because then it, you know, sounds like you'd like to censor them, ironically).

As for the game, never backed it, probably won't buy it, but I hope it does well. As a mainly Nintendo guy my PC is very outdated with little to no reason to upgrade (my Steam/GOG backlog of stuff I could play is massive, plus the current hardware prices are insane), and I don't own the consoles it will come out on, but I'd love to see the look on the faces of the suits who declined to fund the game all those years ago. The more proof games like these can sell, the better.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,437
The amount of people wanting to shove this discussion off into a corner where it's 'out of sight out of mind' is pathetic. God forbid we talk about the terrible views of the director of the game and founder of the studio making it.

Hell, if anyone wants further proof, just go check his twitter likes. Dude is a full blown alt-right dipshit. It's hilarious people were complaining about "American views" in previous posts here. Dude likes, follows and behaves like every alt-right fucktard that exists in the internet.
On his amazing collection of likes, you can even find him liking post of conspiracy shit like pizzagate. This dude is garbage.

Yet people still trying to pull the 'but but hes a poor Eastern European soul who is tormented by the cultural imperialism of the west!'. I like how him and that Chmielarz guy both think they can use their upbringing as a shield to excuse themselves from being assholes.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,100
No that's not how it works in here. Not even close. And was he ever racist, so you feel, your own "intellectual" input was worth a shot?



Okay fine, so what would you say at my position, as far as I know him, he don't do this. I know him from 2015. I am open to ideas, how to approach this situation, but not some witch hunt stuff, you know...
I don't want a witch hunt either. I don't think anyone here really wants him blacklisted from the industry or anything insane like that as much as there is a general sense of disappointment being expressed. I also don't have any problems with people who still want to buy the game and support it.

Its just when your friends are on their worst behavior, its better to either try to calm them down, make them see reason or just say "I'm staying out of this". Any of those are valid choices, just don't enable them or make excuses for them.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
Canada
Sad to hear about the game creators views, but at the same time, even me being a brown-skinned Muslim this game has me way to excite, its my most anticipated game of the year and is really just a childhood dream come true as someone who is fascinated by the European middle ages.

Also, its worth noting this is a team effort and I doubt everyone holds these views, otherwise one would have to boycott literally everything.

Besides we still enjoy the works of people like Mel Gibson and Gal Gadot despite their views, and in general people separate the art from the artist more often than not, even if they like to believe otherwise.
 
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Ohto

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
558
I totally get what you've written out here and it's important to keep in mind....right up until the end there. I just think it's ironic to say "Have some respect for other humans" in defense of a guy who supports GG and the alt-right.

Nah. I respect other humans. Their views might be different from mine, but I will not attack them for having a different opinion about things. Especially a guy like Vavra, because I understand where he's coming from.

And of course it doesn't mean that he is not an asshole, but that's a totally different point. How many actor/director/writer is an asshole, have you guys read/watched/played their creations? I mean, being an asshole comes a problem only when said asshole has an opposing view. An asshole is still a fellow human, and excluding certain types of humans has never been a good idea...


The worst hings that the anti-GG side says is just as evil and twisted than what the GGers say. It is ridiculous to exempt yourself when talking about attacking other people (not you, the whole passive thing sucks so much in English, makes no sense for someone speaking a coherent, logical language...) when you are using the same language and applaud when people get hit and/or hurt (like those cheering when that one nazi-light got punched on camera).

I mean, you guys clearly haven't had enough violence in your life if you really think that it is the answer to anything.



To be honest, I am not a people person and I think that just about everyone is an asshole (at least at some point in their life, and you know what they say about throwing the first stone). Human is a miserable being, their life starts with a cry, they cry and moan throughout their miserable little lives and then they dies and piss and shit all over themselves. There's nothing noble in that. Only thing we have is an occasional laugh and fleeting feelings of happiness. It never lasts. That's why you laugh at everything. Laugh until you can't breath, until you start crying, until nothing remains anymore.

EDIT.
Besides we still enjoy the works of people like Mel Gibson and Gal Gadot despite their views, and in general people separate the art from the artist more often than not, even if they like to believe otherwise.

A really good point. Gal is an exotic creature, fun and empowering women. How many boycotts Wonder Woman because of her views?

Braveheart is one of my favourite movies of all time, and I don't judge Mel. I mean, he probs snorted so much different powders that he became insane...
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
The amount of people wanting to shove this discussion off into a corner where it's 'out of sight out of mind' is pathetic. God forbid we talk about the terrible views of the director of the game and founder of the studio making it.



Yet people still trying to pull the 'but but hes a poor Eastern European soul who is tormented by the cultural imperialism of the west!'. I like how him and that Chmielarz guy both think they can use their upbringing as a shield to excuse themselves from being assholes.
Yep. It's a dumb, non-sensical excuse. Especially when the dude spends most of his twitter activity on liking mostly american alt-right outlets and personalities, and shitty ass republican politicians, not to mention peddling conspiracy shit like pizzagate.
 

Deleted member 11262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,459
Sad to hear about the game creators views, but at the same time, even me being a brown-skinned Muslim this game has me way to excite, its my most anticipated game of the year and is really just a childhood dream come true as someone who is fascinated by the European middle ages.

Also, its worth noting this is a team effort and I doubt everyone holds these views, otherwise one would have to boycott literally everything.

Besides we still enjoy the works of people like Mel Gibson and Gal Gadot despite their views, and in general people separate the art from the artist more often than not, even if they like to believe otherwise.
100% agreed.
By the way: It's funny how posting in Gal Gadot threads (threads about her as a person where she gets loads of praise) about her FB post is considered thread derailing by mods and here we have people talking about the shitty views of one dev (out of 100) and it's of course not considered thread derailing.

I don't try to shove this discussion anywhere. Making another thread is not "shoving this discussion off into a corner where it's out of sight out of mind"...it's just another thread for another topic FFS! Pathetic!
 

Reckheim

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,377
100% agreed.
By the way: It's funny how posting in Gal Gadot threads (threads about her as a person where she gets loads of praise) about her FB post is considered thread derailing by mods and here we have people talking about the shitty views of one dev (out of 100) and it's of course not considered thread derailing.

I don't try to shove this discussion anywhere. Making another thread is not "shoving this discussion off into a corner where it's out of sight out of mind"...it's just another thread for another topic FFS! Pathetic!
The thread title definitely needs a change at least; the actual game hasn't even been discussed for the last 3 pages.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,357
The thread title definitely needs a change at least; the actual game hasn't even been discussed for the last 3 pages.
Nothing is stopping you from talking about the game and ignoring posts about the dev's alt-right views.

100% agreed.
By the way: It's funny how posting in Gal Gadot threads (threads about her as a person where she gets loads of praise) about her FB post is considered thread derailing by mods and here we have people talking about the shitty views of one dev (out of 100) and it's of course not considered thread derailing.

I don't try to shove this discussion anywhere. Making another thread is not "shoving this discussion off into a corner where it's out of sight out of mind"...it's just another thread for another topic FFS! Pathetic!
Gal Gadot's views on Israel has nothing to do with Wonder Woman, but Vavra being a Gamergater has much to do with video gaming. That said, the OT will likely be "segregated", like Durante said.

Right now, nothing is stopping you from talking about the graphics, the quests, etc. Also, you are becoming increasingly belligerent so please calm down?
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,357
I will repeat what my colleague who posted in the Witchfire thread, since it's a similar case:

You can voice your disinterest in the game or your discomfort with Daniel Vávra, but don't try to actively shut down discussion on the game, as many other professionals are pouring their souls into it, and people are free to make their own decisions regarding their game purchases.

On the other hand, stop reporting and antagonizing people who simply want to voice those concerns: its creator's political views are intrinsically part of the project, and we will not silence people who have issues with those views. If you want to talk about the game itself and not about Vávra, simply stop quoting the people talking about it.

If anyone tries to shut down discussion from this post onwards, short bans will start being handed out.
 

Deleted member 11262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,459
Gal Gadot's views on Israel has nothing to do with Wonder Woman, but Vavra being a Gamergater has much to do with video gaming. That said, the OT will likely be "segregated", like Durante said.
You have to be joking. Since you wanna talk about, let's do it.
Ok, so you want to tell me that talking about her FB post in a thread where she gets praised personally for standing up to Brett Ratner (which she didn't btw but that's not the point here, like so many other things) is bad, but talking about the views of one game developer in a thread about a game which he works on among a lot of other people is good?

Can you please explain that again, because at this point this just sounds like cherry-picking to me.

Right now, nothing is stopping you from talking about the graphics, the quests, etc. Also, you are becoming increasingly belligerent so please calm down?
Because I'm sick of the condescending behaviour here. I'm not trying to shove anything anywhere, still people here are making things up and Mods don't care about it. So I'm sorry for behaving this way, but the moderation just doesn't do anything against this.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
You have to be joking. Since you wanna talk about, let's do it.
Ok, so you want to tell me that talking about her FB post in a thread where she gets praised personally for standing up to Brett Ratner (which she didn't btw but that's not the point here, like so many other things) is bad, but talking about the views of one game developer in a thread about a game which he works on among a lot of other people is good?

Can you please explain that again, because at this point this just sounds like cherry-picking to me.


Because I'm sick of the condescending behaviour here. I'm not trying to shove anything anywhere, still people here are making things up and Mods don't care about it. So I'm sorry for behaving this way, but the moderation just doesn't do anything against this.
What are people "making up", exactly? So far the only people i've seen making shit up is defenders of the developer creating a false narrative about something that happened a while ago.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,357
You have to be joking. Since you wanna talk about, let's do it.
Ok, so you want to tell me that talking about her FB post in a thread where she gets praised personally for standing up to Brett Ratner (which she didn't btw but that's not the point here, like so many other things) is bad, but talking about the views of one game developer in a thread about a game which he works on among a lot of other people is good?

Can you please explain that again, because at this point this just sounds like cherry-picking to me.

Because I'm sick of the condescending behaviour here. I'm not trying to shove anything anywhere, still people here are making things up and Mods don't care about it. So I'm sorry for behaving this way, but the moderation just doesn't do anything against this.
Please check your PMs.
 

M1chl

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,054
Czech Republic
I don't want a witch hunt either. I don't think anyone here really wants him blacklisted from the industry or anything insane like that as much as there is a general sense of disappointment being expressed. I also don't have any problems with people who still want to buy the game and support it.

Its just when your friends are on their worst behavior, its better to either try to calm them down, make them see reason or just say "I'm staying out of this". Any of those are valid choices, just don't enable them or make excuses for them.
As I stated, I didn't know know him around his "twitter adventures". He is totally different in person and I will mention that and see what does he has to say in this regard. And he is not my friend I only knew him when we hang out with probably my friend (I still have huge chunk of respect for him) from Amanita design (Machinarium, etc..), they know each other well, I am kind of someone for Dan, I guess, but still I can ask about his view after some time passed.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
I never knew the Gamergate movement was about freedom of speech in videogames? I like diversity in the games I play, but I don't think any dev should be pressured into doing that if they don't want to or it doesn't fit with the theme or tone of their game. Or was this another thing belatedly co-opted into the movement in order to make them seem more legitimate when it fact it just began as a widespread harassment campaign against female developers?

This probably isn't the place for this, but I don't believe we have a dedicated Gamergate topic here on Era yet.

As far as I know there are Czechs, Germans, Cumans and Swiss present in the game, from all orders of society. 15th century Bohemia was also undergoing a period of religious strife, with high tensions between Roman Catholics, Jews and Hussites (basically proto-Protestants). On top of that it's putting the spotlight on the Czech people living in Bohemia. How many games can you name that are focused on the Czech people?

So I am always puzzled when people say that the game features little diversity or should not be considered an extremely valuable addition to diversify the catalogue of games.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
I try to put myself in his shoes, knowing he grew up in a communist world with lots of Censor, and I can understand his logic. Not everyone is born in a "free" country, it take time to adapt.
 
OP
OP
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,598
Only thing that i kinda don't like in this game is combat system. I mean it is great idea and I like complexity of it but I don't have time to learn and master it. :/
 

Reckheim

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,377
Only thing that i kinda don't like in this game is combat system. I mean it is great idea and I like complexity of it but I don't have time to learn and master it. :/
Yeh, i'm really hoping majority of the game can be played with sneaking and dialog trees (my preferred way to play games, regardless of how good the combat is)
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,044
Hell, if anyone wants further proof, just go check his twitter likes. Dude is a full blown alt-right dipshit. It's hilarious people were complaining about "American views" in previous posts here. Dude likes, follows and behaves like every alt-right fuckwit that exists in the internet.
On his amazing collection of likes, you can even find him liking post of conspiracy shit like pizzagate. This dude is garbage.

Out of curiosity I went and had a look, and yeesh. Wasn't too bad at first as it was all relating to the press cycle for his game, but go back a few months and he's got retweets from Paul Joseph Watson, anti-Antifa shit, Rebel Media and I even found a pro-Charlottesville retweet in there. Fucking hell.
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
Coming from a long history of buying metal albums from bands around the world who harbor some pretty awful social and political views, this doesn't phase me that much. I will say however that this guy's views are immature enough that I don't really take him seriously. Not that he isn't serious about them.

That said, KCD seems like the real deal.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,176
UK
Hell, if anyone wants further proof, just go check his twitter likes. Dude is a full blown alt-right dipshit. It's hilarious people were complaining about "American views" in previous posts here. Dude likes, follows and behaves like every alt-right fuckwit that exists in the internet.
On his amazing collection of likes, you can even find him liking post of conspiracy shit like pizzagate. This dude is garbage.

Out of curiosity I went and had a look, and yeesh. Wasn't too bad at first as it was all relating to the press cycle for his game, but go back a few months and he's got retweets from Paul Joseph Watson, anti-Antifa shit, Rebel Media and I even found a pro-Charlottesville retweet in there. Fucking hell.
I'm not finding the Charlottesville RT, but here are other likes that show he's a big fan of alt right figures. Also some fake news about a shark in Texas lol, because of course James Woods is a dumbass.
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(Charlie Kirk was a Breitbart writer who supported Bannon and Milo and a conservative activist who founded Turning Point USA which is a conservative org that secretly works to combat campus liberalism by influencing student elections)
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Kekistan flag, the same one you find at Nazi rallies)
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I'm sure people know about Paul Joseph Watson, Gavin McInnes (contributor for Rebel media who also founded Proud Boys a white nationalist movement in Canada), Stefan Molyneux (race realist MRA alt-right figure who used to be a cult leader) the Trumps, etc. In case you don't know Jack Posobiec, he's a conspiracy theorist who went on about Pizzagate and doxxed people (thanks to Vic Berger highlighting him).

 
Dec 9, 2017
45
User banned (2d): Ignoring/dog-whistling bigotry, groundless accusation of stalking
Yeah, he hates fascists, nazis, communists, socialists and antifas and authoritarians of any stripe. I admire the dedication to stalking though, it is not creepy at all.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,357
Wow @ people calling that Google misogynist idiot a "hero". A guy who openly called for discriminating against women in tech. Any company owner who supports James Damore makes me seriously question how they would run their own company.

Vavra has some nerve to deride accusations of racism and misogyny and paint himself as a victim while he "likes" all of the above tweets.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Yeah, he hates fascists, nazis, communists, socialists and antifas and authoritarians of any stripe. I admire the dedication to stalking though, it is not creepy at all.
Yes because looking at his public twitter profile is "stalking" Doesnt seem to hate fascists or nazis:dude literally spends his days liking their tweets.
Your defense of this douchebag is getting more thin by the minute. Especially hilarious when you claim he hates idiots that he literally gets his political views from.

Im honestly amazed at how imvested you are on defending the dude that you lose all your reading skills because of it.
 
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Einherjer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Germany
This is where I stand as well. I've read countless books and watched countless movies from people with questionable world views. I critique the work and not the person.

Same for example i can still appreciate H:P.Lovecraft's works despite knowing what a racist pos he was, it doesn't really bother me and the bigger the project the harder it will probably get to find one without someone with some shitty views having worked on it.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,437
People are clearly being disingenuous trying to downplay this guy's positions that you can clearly see on his twitter. Same thing happened in the other thread with Chmielarz from the Astronauts who people are trying to act like is some innocent baby that got unfairly tied up in GG, and not one it's biggest figureheads who directed tons of hate towards it's enemies.

I believe there are posters trying to keep Era from becoming as staunchly anti-gamergate and critical of shitty people/devs like this as the old site was and using the implosion of the old site as reasoning why.
 

Ohto

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
558
I believe there are posters trying to keep Era from becoming as staunchly anti-gamergate and critical of shitty people/devs like this as the old site was and using the implosion of the old site as reasoning why.

More like trying to keep from becoming hostile, vile place like the previous forum. Critics are fine but some people get really toxic and they won't stop polluting non-related topics with their agenda. Both far sides.

You can have a different opinion without attacking the person, insulting said person. People are way too hostile nowadays, where's the discourse? If you use the same means than GGers, you are just the same. Be civil, wise and caring and don't act like they, like a jerk.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,953
More like trying to keep from becoming hostile, vile place like the previous forum. Critics are fine but some people get really toxic and they won't stop polluting non-related topics with their agenda. Both far sides.

You can have a different opinion without attacking the person, insulting said person. People are way too hostile nowadays, where's the discourse? If you use the same means than GGers, you are just the same. Be civil, wise and caring and don't act like they, like a jerk.

Here we go with the both sides thing.

Please, enlighten us on how a guy who supports not only gamergate but alt right fascist movements like kekistan has some good points that we should all listen to. Please tell us what aspects of his beliefs are worthy of consideration and debate.

Is it the "harass all women out of the gaming industry" thing? Or maybe the "Jews will not replace us" thing?