• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Kiseki/Trails Community |OT| Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILER TAGS OR DIE!

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,944
Zemlya is also what Falcom inteded for Zemuria, but they revealed their romanisation only after the localisation of FC. They also had their own readings for Divine Knights and the Black Factory:
Excellion and Schwarz Factoria.
Zemlya wouldn't exactly roll of the tongue of an English audience, so I'm happy Xseed kept it at Zemuria.
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,117
So, chapter 3 of Zero,
that scene with Renne's parents, what a punch in the gut! I really wasn't expecting a character from the Sky arc to get any significant development in the Crossbell games so that came out of nowhere for me. I figured they'd just be cameos without much consequence to give it that feeling of being connected with the other games. Man, I'm glad there's more to it than that.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
961
Damn,
watching a story walkthrough of CS2 to refresh my memory for CS3, Fie mentions she once hanged out with a Red-constellation jaeger girl ...



My face when I realized she met
Shirley Orlando

 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
The Third is such a weird game. I feel like i paid 30 bucks for the epilogue to SC. I like it, a lot, but it's just so weird.
 

hans_castorp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
I don't think it's the best Kiseki game, and I fail to see how anyone could.
Great soundtrack, really tight gameplay, amazing pacing, lots of characters to choose from, great bosses and a fuck ton of lore.
I still think Ao is the better game, but it is only thanks to Zero that do all the setting up so Ao can go full crazy really fast.
 
Last edited:

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,599
My problem with 3rd is how ridiculously gamey it is.

I don't usually have this problem. My tolerance for "gamey", immersion-breaking stuff that makes me feel "yep this is a video game" is honestly very high. But Trails 3rd, with its Doors and all, just... doesn't even try to pretend to be a believable world that I could get lost into. It's just weird and kind of jarring.

I still liked the game a lot, so it's not a big complaint or anything, but it was too noticeable to ignore.
 

hans_castorp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
3rd is more a dungeon crawler than a proper rpg adventure so I guess it can feel "gamey"
The doors and the whole Phantasma setting are great because they allow Falcom to tell the story without the limitations a proper jrpg would have.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
Top class character writing, terrific soundtrack, solid gameplay, the best pacing in the series, great and memorable story moments...
It's the same gameplay as the rest of the series, tho. And yeah, it has memorable story moments, but it's so different than any other trails game, that by saying it's the best makes my question why you like the series in the first place.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,132
It's the same gameplay as the rest of the series, tho. And yeah, it has memorable story moments, but it's so different than any other trails game, that by saying it's the best makes my question why you like the series in the first place.
Same gameplay, different execution

You have a ton of characters at your disposal and tons of ways to maximize their potential, not to mention the game having great boss fights and decent dungeon design

It's the peak of the series because the one thing the series does well (character writing) is unmatched.
 

Eppcetera

Member
Mar 3, 2018
526
I don't think it's the best Kiseki game, and I fail to see how anyone could.
Maybe you should learn how to empathize if you fail to understand how people can have different opinions?

Joking aside, Sky 3 isn't my favourite, but I like it specifically because it is different and weird and unlike the rest of the series. It's refreshing not needing to worry about missing BP or some sidequest (my biggest complaint with the rest of the series) and to play a game in the series that's paced so slowly that it needs multiple games to finish a single narrative (disclaimer: I give props to Zero for being an exception and ending its story in one game). The music, as has been mentioned, is phenomenal. For lore-heavy fans, Sky 3 offers some of the most rewarding replayability since Falcom keeps building off plot points first seen in this game. As for the gameplay, there are some major differences from the game before. First of all, there is far more customization, in general, in terms of party construction, orbment set-up, and equipment than there is in the preceding two games; moreover, the bosses in Sky 3 are generally more difficult and require some better knowledge of how to customize and create parties effectively. In terms of the dungeons, Sky 3 adds a few new interesting twists, namely in the form of some dungeons that require multiple parties to complete. The game also makes massive improvements in terms of quality of life by adding great quick-travel options (I seem to recall you complaining about the final dungeon in Sky 2, so you should appreciate this difference). Personally, I believe that the games after Sky 3 play better than it does (which is why it's not my favourite), but Sky 3 is the earliest game in the series that I actually enjoy playing. I'm not sure if you've finished playing it or not, but if not, maybe play the entire game before rushing to judge it.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
Maybe you should learn how to empathize if you fail to understand how people can have different opinions?

Joking aside, Sky 3 isn't my favourite, but I like it specifically because it is different and weird and unlike the rest of the series. It's refreshing not needing to worry about missing BP or some sidequest (my biggest complaint with the rest of the series) and to play a game in the series that's paced so slowly that it needs multiple games to finish a single narrative (disclaimer: I give props to Zero for being an exception and ending its story in one game). The music, as has been mentioned, is phenomenal. For lore-heavy fans, Sky 3 offers some of the most rewarding replayability since Falcom keeps building off plot points first seen in this game. As for the gameplay, there are some major differences from the game before. First of all, there is far more customization, in general, in terms of party construction, orbment set-up, and equipment than there is in the preceding two games; moreover, the bosses in Sky 3 are generally more difficult and require some better knowledge of how to customize and create parties effectively. In terms of the dungeons, Sky 3 adds a few new interesting twists, namely in the form of some dungeons that require multiple parties to complete. The game also makes massive improvements in terms of quality of life by adding great quick-travel options (I seem to recall you complaining about the final dungeon in Sky 2, so you should appreciate this difference). Personally, I believe that the games after Sky 3 play better than it does (which is why it's not my favourite), but Sky 3 is the earliest game in the series that I actually enjoy playing. I'm not sure if you've finished playing it or not, but if not, maybe play the entire game before rushing to judge it.
Maybe you shouldn't insult people if you want them to care about your opinion?
 
Oct 27, 2017
318
I don't think it's the best Kiseki game, and I fail to see how anyone could.
The character writing in that game is the best Falcom has ever done imo(of the officially released English games which are the ones I've played). It's a feast. The gameplay in the Sky games is a wash for me, I don't enjoy them much so that doesn't even factor into it for me personally. Everything else about it is such a huge step up. Kevin and Ries are incredible characters with a dynamic I like A LOT more than Estelle and Joshua.

It might not be overall my favorite Kiseki game since I do still have to *play* it a bunch but the strength of every other part of it makes it an easy pick for the most dense, interesting, and thoughtful game in the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,456
It's the same gameplay as the rest of the series, tho. And yeah, it has memorable story moments, but it's so different than any other trails game, that by saying it's the best makes my question why you like the series in the first place.
It's so different, but at the same time it hits the best parts of the series consistently, just arranged differently. Like, yeah you're not just exploring towns normally, but the doors that are full of NPC dialogue opportunities have some of the best examples of it in the series because they're structured around that as the main draw.

I certainly wouldn't want every game in the series to be structured like the 3rd is (I think part of what makes it work so well is just how refreshing it is compared to the rest of the series), but I think it absolutely nails the game that it's trying to be. It has everything I love about the series in it, just not in the same order I'm used to from the other games. And obviously it has the best dungeons in the series.
 

Solarc

Member
Sep 24, 2018
285
Dominican Republic
*wipes tears* So much good taste in a single page, I just can't...

In other news, I just bought Zero no Kiseki in preparation for Geofront's release since the game (along with other Falcom ones) is currently on sale on DLsite right now, I also got a coupon after creating my account, so the game ended up costing me the equivalent of 9.95 USD, here's a link to the sale along with a post on how to buy it:


 
Last edited:

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,036
Netherlands
3rd is the goat as it goes all out. It is in a weird spot, because it feels like it stands on its own but also draws strength from the connection from its predecessors and successors.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
Not acknowledging how others could have different opinions is fine, but telling someone to be more understanding is out of line?
What I said is that I fail to see how others could think it was the best. That's not denying that other people have different opinions, it's saying that the qualities that people appreciate about it aren't apparent to me. That's not a lack of empathy, that's the game not hit the right spots for me. Also, it's just a game dude. My not think it's the "goat" doesn't in any way impact your ability to think it is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,178
I enjoyed the CS3 demo, was a decent length too. Was great seeing some characters from the Sky games popping up. Very happy it's running at 4k60 on the Pro too.

I've been playing the Sky games on my commute on the Vita for the last few months and am glad I am now caught up on those mostly before CS3 releases. About halfway through the 3rd right now. It's...kinda weird, isn't it? I'm not sure what to think of it.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
I enjoyed the CS3 demo, was a decent length too. Was great seeing some characters from the Sky games popping up. Very happy it's running at 4k60 on the Pro too.

I've been playing the Sky games on my commute on the Vita for the last few months and am glad I am now caught up on those mostly before CS3 releases. About halfway through the 3rd right now. It's...kinda weird, isn't it? I'm not sure what to think of it.
Uh oh, watch out! Everyone's going to dogpile, and tell you how the third is the best game in the series, and insult you because you disagree.
 
Oct 27, 2017
318
Uh oh, watch out! Everyone's going to dogpile, and tell you how the third is the best game in the series, and insult you because you disagree.
Man, come on.

And yeah, it has memorable story moments, but it's so different than any other trails game, that by saying it's the best makes my question why you like the series in the first place.
I don't think it's the best Kiseki game, and I fail to see how anyone could.
These are intentionally inflammatory and strange things to say. It's very apparent why fans of the series like 3rd, it does a lot of the things the series is known for very well and does a ton to further the mythos of the world as well as individual characters. A single person replied to you with snark(frankly much less than I'm used to seeing with Kiseki fans esp if you like Cold Steel a bunch), everyone else just said why they feel positively or negatively about the game despite its structural differences to the rest of the series.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
Man, come on.




These are intentionally inflammatory and strange things to say. It's very apparent why fans of the series like 3rd, it does a lot of the things the series is known for very well and does a ton to further the mythos of the world as well as individual characters. A single person replied to you with snark(frankly much less than I'm used to seeing with Kiseki fans esp if you like Cold Steel a bunch), everyone else just said why they feel positively or negatively about the game despite its structural differences to the rest of the series
I appreciate you telling me that I should get over it.

In other news: jesus christ I hate the fishing mini game in trails.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,944
I appreciate you telling me that I should get over it.

In other news: jesus christ I hate the fishing mini game in trails.
You know, the more I read from you, the more I have the impression you seem to hate every little thing about this franchise.
Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. It's just kinda weird to keep coming to an OT where fans of this particular franchise like to talk about why they like it, and if you are gonna state that you fiercely dislike almost everything that people like about Trails games, well then you should frankly expect that people will call you out on it (even if it's just asking why you feel that way, you tend to give simplistic blanket statements), after all why post it here of all places where people are least likely to agree with you.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
You know, the more I read from you, the more I have the impression you seem to hate every little thing about this franchise.
Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. It's just kinda weird to keep coming to an OT where fans of this particular franchise like to talk about why they like it, and if you are gonna state that you fiercely dislike almost everything that people like about them, well then you should frankly expect that people will call you out on it, after all why post it here of all places where people are least likely to agree with you.
I don't mind being called out. I mind being told I lack empathy. Perhaps you should read more of my posts in this thread, like the one where I talked about how awesome the last chapter of Zero was, or how much I enjoyed the second chapter, or how chapter 4 of Ao is my favorite one in the LoH series, or how I really like CS and CS2. But no, you're right. I hate everything about it. I'm so glad there are people that know how I feel about something better than I do. Here, I thought I loved the series. That's what I've blitzed through 4 games in the past 2 months. But I guess I was wrong, and I actually hate every little thing about it. I don't know why I've subjected myself to 4 games in a series I quite clearly hate, but...I guess you'd know better than me.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,944
No need to react passive aggressively, never said my impression was worth much, and yeah, I hadn't read more than your rant on Estelle before.
It's interesting how vastly different takes people can have of the same franchise, ultimately shows how rich Trails games tend to be.
I do question, though how you could push through FC and SC if you really didn't like Estelle as a character, I'd have just quit at that point.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
No need to react passive aggressively, never said my impression was worth much, and yeah, I hadn't read more than your rant on Estelle before.
It's interesting how vastly different takes people can have of the same franchise, ultimately shows how rich Trails games tend to be.
I do question, though how you could push through FC and SC if you really didn't like Estelle as a character, I'd have just quit at that point.

I played FC a loooong time ago, where she didn't piss me off as much, because she was tempered by Joshua. In SC she just gets obnoxious, and things other people find charming I find grating. as for why I pushed through sc, it's cause the story was really good. The other characters were fun, I find Olivier to be utterly charming, and is possibly my favorite character in Sky. Mostly it's the story and my investment in the world as a whole that drove me to finish SC. I never felt like I was forcing myself to, except for when I fucked up, and didn't activate the fast travel option in the last part of SC. That resulted in me walking back and forth multiple times, and just poisoning my opinion of the game. I didn't unlock the fast travel option till the last chance to do so, so I never saved much time. But that was my screw up, and not a flaw in the game, so I forgave it. I'm trying to get done with these before CS3 comes out. I kind of wish I had done sc and the third before zero and Ao, cause it might've enhanced my enjoyment of those two games. Oh well. I knew I wanted to get those done before CS3 at least, and then I just decided to finish the other 2 as well. I am glad I did, because if I hadn't, Tita and Agate showing up in CS3 wouldn't mean nearly as much to me. And a certain instructor wouldn't mean anything at all. I love how intertwined this series is, and how going back and playing older games enhances my appreciation of CS1 and 2. Like, a surprise mention by a certain character in zero of events that occur in CS made me squee a bit. Finding out what the hell was going on in the later half of CS2 in crossbell was great. Meeting important background characters in The Third, and Ao. I don't know if there's another game series that's even trying to do something this ambitious, and I'm really, really glad I'm along for the ride.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,132
Perhaps you should read more of my posts in this thread, like the one where I talked about how awesome the last chapter of Zero was, or how much I enjoyed the second chapter, or how chapter 4 of Ao is my favorite one in the LoH series, or how I really like CS and CS2. But no, you're right. I hate everything about it. I'm so glad there are people that know how I feel about something better than I do. Here, I thought I loved the series. That's what I've blitzed through 4 games in the past 2 months. But I guess I was wrong, and I actually hate every little thing about it. I don't know why I've subjected myself to 4 games in a series I quite clearly hate, but...I guess you'd know better than me.
I don't think it's the best Kiseki game, and I fail to see how anyone could.
I appreciate you telling me that I should get over it.
Uh oh, watch out! Everyone's going to dogpile, and tell you how the third is the best game in the series, and insult you because you disagree.
Maybe think about why multiple people have a problem with your opinions instead of constantly deflecting.

I'm going to be blunt; your attitude sucks, your takes are sophomoric and you actively make me want to avoid engaging in this thread.
 

Lian_Kazairl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
50
That feel when you beat Ao and can finally safely read all the spoilery talk about it.

I can see why so many people love the game. Great characters, epic twists, one of the strongest (if not the strongest) soundtracks in the series, and man, finally having context for CS/CSII is just so great. It has some pacing problems that kind of frustrated me (especially the epilogue) and I really didn't like the final boss, but it also has some of the highest highs in the series.

Like the end of chapter 4 is without a doubt some of the most intense "we be fucked" hype I've felt in the entire series.

Randy was my favorite character and felt almost like a secondary protagonist next to Lloyd because of how closely linked he and his backstory are to Red Constellation and their antics. Wazy ended up surprising me in the eleventh hour with the reveal that he's a Dominion; I liked him beforehand but kept expecting character development that never came...until it came and knocked me off my feet at the end of the fragment chapter.

The two fights against Arios were probably my favorite out of both Crossbell games, in large part because of the epic music choices. The Super Arrange version of "Inevitable Struggle" may be my favorite Kiseki battle theme right now, and though I thought I wanted to hear it again when you showdown with Arios in the final dungeon, I actually ended up loving the use of "Get Over the Barrier -Roaring Version-" even more. Great callback to Zero (where it was criminally underused), and also the track title itself references the barrier that Arios represented for the SSS ever since the beginning of the duology. Just perfect.

Arios himself was an excellent character. Misguided and in the wrong (especially considering his role in Guy's death) but sympathetic and hard to hate. I was afraid he was going to pull a Loewe/Crow and get himself killed, but I was pleased to see him survive and even work with the SSS afterward.

ARRGH I have so many feels, but this is already a word vomit post so I'll just leave it at that. I really liked it, and I'm relieved I was able to get through it (and Zero) before CSIII comes out.
 
Last edited:

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
911
In Sandstar's defense; Estelle wacky fishing adventures in 3rd are rather widely known for their ability to drive fans nuts enough to take out the Kondo voodoo dolls and enough needles to scare a Cactuar.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,231
Oh man, I just finished Chapter 4 of Ao and it was insane. So good.
Fuck yeah it is. So fuckin' good. My favorite chapter of any Trails game. That opening is simply amazing.

Also, the last star door in the third. Holy shit. HOLY SHIT. I take back everything I ever thought about
Renne. She deserves every bit of happiness she gets in zero and ao, and hopefully cs3 and 4

I was sobbing through all of it.