Kiseki/Trails Community|OT|Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILERTAGS OR DIE!
- Thread starter Synohan
- Start date
Excellent update. And it's probably good they are going to focus more on finishing first pass editing going forward, because while going back and working on some second pass stuff is good, it did stall their public progress.
This really sounds like we're going to get near official release quality on PC though. Really exciting stuff, I can't wait.
This really sounds like we're going to get near official release quality on PC though. Really exciting stuff, I can't wait.
The Geofront people keep raising my expectations and then proceed to surpass those too. What an amazing team.
The weirdest thing is that outside of having a WeChat account, it's basically impossible to get a digital version of it. From a purely technical perspective, they could provide the same improvements to the Ao version as well (once the DRM is removed, I assume)
The weirdest thing is that outside of having a WeChat account, it's basically impossible to get a digital version of it. From a purely technical perspective, they could provide the same improvements to the Ao version as well (once the DRM is removed, I assume)
There are several hurdles about the Crossbell games that combine to make them a pretty unappealing commercial project for any localizer, be it XSeed, NISA or other party.
- For one, they're PSP games in an era where even the PSP's successor is no longer considered a commercially viable platform, which means they'll need to be ported from scratch. (Joyoland's ports are old, not particularly high quality and the ones who programmed them and would be relied on for technical support only speak Chinese, which is why XSeed commissioned their own ports for Ys Seven and Memories of Celceta instead of trying to adopt and provide support for Joyoland's work) Obviously this can be done, but it significantly raises the costs of the project.
- Both Zero and Ao have very large scripts. It would require a long and thorough translation and editing effort. Which also brings along costs.
- These raised costs for the project are a problem because neither of the games are what we'd consider visually appealing these days. Even if the publisher put whatever high-def assets Falcom has into the game, it'll look on par with the Sky games at best. Trails in the Sky FC had the good fortune to release on Steam back when JRPGs were very rare on the platform, but that's no longer the case these days. Zero might just sell about as well as Sky SC did and Ao about as well as Sky the 3rd did if we're lucky. That might not recompense the costs of both the mammoth translation plus the porting job.
- Another factor that will drive the sales down is the fact that both games have fan translations, which drives their commercial viability down further. While die-hard fans will still buy the games full price on day 1, more casual players who really wanted to know what happened in Crossbell but who already played through the fan translations might not want do that since they barely replay games anyway and will either wait for a 50% off sale or not buy them at all. Companies can't dismiss the absence of the "I want to know what happened"-factor in their cost-benefit analysis.
Back when 3rd was being localized, Brittany already pointed out these factors and why they were a major hurdle. That was when XSeed was still considered Falcom's only western publisher. There was one argument that could be made for XSeed taking on the Crossbell games and that was long-term viability and the idea that the sales of each individual Trails game would slightly boost the sales of the others. If Falcom had said: "We really want you to localize Zero and Ao and if you do, you can have first dibs on Cold Steel III, IV and eventual future Trails games", an argument could be made that even losing money on Crossbell would be compensated by sales from more recent titles with more modern appeal.
Falcom, however, has shown they have no plans to keep the Trails franchise with one particular publisher and will simply auction it off to whatever party offers the most money. This also means there likely won't be any incentives for western publishers to take on high-risk/low-reward projects for long-time benefit, since Falcom's eyes might start wandering again a few years down the line.
If XSeed had any incentive to take on Crossbell before, that's certainly gone now that NISA's taken the second half of the Erebonia arc. Would NISA be willing to take a probable financial loss for long-term maybe/possible benefits? I don't know, but my hunch is not any more than XSeed. I'd love to be wrong, but for the time being, I'm not really taking NISA's vague comments about being "aware" of the Crossbell problem as anything other than PR talk.
- For one, they're PSP games in an era where even the PSP's successor is no longer considered a commercially viable platform, which means they'll need to be ported from scratch. (Joyoland's ports are old, not particularly high quality and the ones who programmed them and would be relied on for technical support only speak Chinese, which is why XSeed commissioned their own ports for Ys Seven and Memories of Celceta instead of trying to adopt and provide support for Joyoland's work) Obviously this can be done, but it significantly raises the costs of the project.
- Both Zero and Ao have very large scripts. It would require a long and thorough translation and editing effort. Which also brings along costs.
- These raised costs for the project are a problem because neither of the games are what we'd consider visually appealing these days. Even if the publisher put whatever high-def assets Falcom has into the game, it'll look on par with the Sky games at best. Trails in the Sky FC had the good fortune to release on Steam back when JRPGs were very rare on the platform, but that's no longer the case these days. Zero might just sell about as well as Sky SC did and Ao about as well as Sky the 3rd did if we're lucky. That might not recompense the costs of both the mammoth translation plus the porting job.
- Another factor that will drive the sales down is the fact that both games have fan translations, which drives their commercial viability down further. While die-hard fans will still buy the games full price on day 1, more casual players who really wanted to know what happened in Crossbell but who already played through the fan translations might not want do that since they barely replay games anyway and will either wait for a 50% off sale or not buy them at all. Companies can't dismiss the absence of the "I want to know what happened"-factor in their cost-benefit analysis.
Back when 3rd was being localized, Brittany already pointed out these factors and why they were a major hurdle. That was when XSeed was still considered Falcom's only western publisher. There was one argument that could be made for XSeed taking on the Crossbell games and that was long-term viability and the idea that the sales of each individual Trails game would slightly boost the sales of the others. If Falcom had said: "We really want you to localize Zero and Ao and if you do, you can have first dibs on Cold Steel III, IV and eventual future Trails games", an argument could be made that even losing money on Crossbell would be compensated by sales from more recent titles with more modern appeal.
Falcom, however, has shown they have no plans to keep the Trails franchise with one particular publisher and will simply auction it off to whatever party offers the most money. This also means there likely won't be any incentives for western publishers to take on high-risk/low-reward projects for long-time benefit, since Falcom's eyes might start wandering again a few years down the line.
If XSeed had any incentive to take on Crossbell before, that's certainly gone now that NISA's taken the second half of the Erebonia arc. Would NISA be willing to take a probable financial loss for long-term maybe/possible benefits? I don't know, but my hunch is not any more than XSeed. I'd love to be wrong, but for the time being, I'm not really taking NISA's vague comments about being "aware" of the Crossbell problem as anything other than PR talk.
At the moment, I'd say NISA is more likely to localize the Crossbell games than Xseed, given that Xseed let Brittany go and NISA is the company publishing the games that continue the Crossbell story. I'm still not convinced that any localizer will translate the Crossbell games, although I think it's slightly more possible than I did prior to the NISA Cold Steel 3 announcement (before then, I thought the chances were pretty much zero, pun intended). NISA saying they are "aware" of the problem is pretty meaningless; I'm aware of the problem, too, so what? I'll wait until someone makes an definitive announcement.
Yeah, if Falcom's not gonna let them pick up their potentially profitable projects like Cold Steel III, XSeed has no incentive to take on projects that are almost guaranteed to make them lose money such as the Crossbell games. So XSeed's out on this one.
There was one other thing; people talked about the fan translations being licensed. Personally, I don't think that's gonna happen either due to the fact that they're not the work of one individual and while ZeroMonkey was anti-XSeed rather than anti-any-publisher, it's still a legal mess and one I wager no company would want to bother with even if they're not like Brittany and outright refuse to adopt them without redoing them pretty much from scratch themselves.
There was one other thing; people talked about the fan translations being licensed. Personally, I don't think that's gonna happen either due to the fact that they're not the work of one individual and while ZeroMonkey was anti-XSeed rather than anti-any-publisher, it's still a legal mess and one I wager no company would want to bother with even if they're not like Brittany and outright refuse to adopt them without redoing them pretty much from scratch themselves.
Speaking frankly, I'm actually looking forward to playing Zero with Geofront's translation and mod, more so than CS3. Obviously one could argue that a fan translation could not ever compare with a professionally done localisation, but at least for me personally, the QoL improvements alone will contribute more to my enjoyment even more. Considering a fair number of NISA PC releases was outright broken without community mods/fixes, I'll be very surprised if the eventual PC port wasn't broken or marred with delays once again.
Still playing Trails in the Sky FC. Just started chapter 2 at 15 hours played.
I'm enjoying it, but I'm still amazed that this game gets away with virtually nothing happening. There's barely even a hint of a villain at this point, and there's no conflict.
I was kinda expecting the sky bandit/lost dad angle to propel Estelle and Joshua forward but at this point their motivation to go to Ruan was literally like "let's go just because!"
I'm enjoying the experience as more of a "lean back" story - treating it like a visual novel. But it's wild that this game gets away with this.
I'm enjoying it, but I'm still amazed that this game gets away with virtually nothing happening. There's barely even a hint of a villain at this point, and there's no conflict.
I was kinda expecting the sky bandit/lost dad angle to propel Estelle and Joshua forward but at this point their motivation to go to Ruan was literally like "let's go just because!"
I'm enjoying the experience as more of a "lean back" story - treating it like a visual novel. But it's wild that this game gets away with this.
Stuff is happening. Just subtly behind the scenes and you failed to notice the hints. Trails villains generally don't make their introduction with guns blazing and hammy speeches. (well of them do, but most don't) Like you've seen with the youngest sky bandit sibling, Trails villains know the credo: "if you're gonna shiv someone, make sure you're behind them all the way first".
It's been a while since I played FC but I distinctly remember the reason behind going to Ruan and continuing the journey was to improve accreditation and become full bracers (graduating from juniorship) along with following the words of Cassius (boots on the ground means you are a more effective bracer during a time of crisis).
No need to be defensive, friends. I'm not a dummy and it doesn't take a genius anyway to pick up on the very-frequently-repeated references to something clouding the Don's mind in Chapter 1, and him not acting like himself after "he" showed up.
You literally can't miss it. There's a whole boss fight about it, and an extended denouement about it afterward.
I already said I like the game. It's relaxing. It's pastoral. But what it's "getting away" with is hanging 15+ hours of gameplay onto a (so far) extremely paper-thin scenario.
"Let's go on an adventure" is enough for me. It worked for the first half of Grandia, too. But let's not pretend it is above comment or reproach.
You literally can't miss it. There's a whole boss fight about it, and an extended denouement about it afterward.
I already said I like the game. It's relaxing. It's pastoral. But what it's "getting away" with is hanging 15+ hours of gameplay onto a (so far) extremely paper-thin scenario.
"Let's go on an adventure" is enough for me. It worked for the first half of Grandia, too. But let's not pretend it is above comment or reproach.
That's just it. Those 15 hours already have a lot of interesting world building. It's not as fast paced as a Game of Thrones episode, and frankly, I'm glad that it isn't. If there is one issue I have with modern story-telling, it's that everything has to be so rushed. Having this really, really slow build-up is amazing to me.
It's okay if you find it mildly annoying, that's ok. I'm not saying you are wrong, nor attacking you or anything. Everyone has different views on the world. Some of us are decent, moral people, others put Pineapple on their pizza. Life has all kinds of folks. That's good.
And I happen to really love what FC is doing. It is down right perfect to me.
It's okay if you find it mildly annoying, that's ok. I'm not saying you are wrong, nor attacking you or anything. Everyone has different views on the world. Some of us are decent, moral people, others put Pineapple on their pizza. Life has all kinds of folks. That's good.
And I happen to really love what FC is doing. It is down right perfect to me.
PH3's involvement has to be complete in this case and not just limited to a temporary consulting. When CS1/CS2 has set the gold standard of how PC port should be done, it will be inexcusable for NISA to regress back to their Ys VIII ways. I don't know of any other way to ensure a more worthy PC port.
Look, you can call me a weeb, degenerate and whatever else. But I won't stand for this slight against pineapples on pizza. :-P
Look, you can call me a weeb, degenerate and whatever else. But I won't stand for this slight against pineapples on pizza. :-P
Sky FC's Chapter 1 is a goldmine of foreshadowing.
1. Joshua gets defensive when Estelle wonders if other Erebonians are anything like Olivier. #NotAllErebonianMen
2. A sentry at the Haken Gate tells you that there should be an Erebonian village called Hamel near the border, but all contact with it was inexplicably lost a decade ago (IIRC, to get this line, you need to talk to him after you are told that Bose's southern district was robbed the night before, but before you go there to investigate and meet Richard).
3. Joshua reads a book on the Hundred Day War, which mentions that Erebonia has never given their reason for declaring the war, calling it a result of a misunderstanding.
Combined with Lorence reproaching Alicia for keeping the Hamel events a secret in Sky FC's Finale and with Lorence clearly having some sort of connection to Joshua, this is pretty much all you need to piece together Joshua's backstory, including the parts that don't get formally revealed until the middle of Sky SC.
2. A sentry at the Haken Gate tells you that there should be an Erebonian village called Hamel near the border, but all contact with it was inexplicably lost a decade ago (IIRC, to get this line, you need to talk to him after you are told that Bose's southern district was robbed the night before, but before you go there to investigate and meet Richard).
3. Joshua reads a book on the Hundred Day War, which mentions that Erebonia has never given their reason for declaring the war, calling it a result of a misunderstanding.
Combined with Lorence reproaching Alicia for keeping the Hamel events a secret in Sky FC's Finale and with Lorence clearly having some sort of connection to Joshua, this is pretty much all you need to piece together Joshua's backstory, including the parts that don't get formally revealed until the middle of Sky SC.
The Steam version of CS II was patched to version 1.4.1 today: https://steamcommunity.com/games/748490/announcements/detail/1742233047017085346
Apparently, it changed the executable icon to an image of Tio (GOG doesn't have the latest patch yet, so I can't confirm the change personally): https://reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/alykq4/has_the_cold_steel_ii_icon_always_been_tio/
The image of Tio was in the PC version on release, but patch 1.1 removed it "to prevent misunderstandings." Is the image's return a mistake, or is XSEED taking the Sega approach to announcement teases? If it's the former, we should get another patch that will remove the image once again in a day or two. If we don't get another patch...
Apparently, it changed the executable icon to an image of Tio (GOG doesn't have the latest patch yet, so I can't confirm the change personally): https://reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/alykq4/has_the_cold_steel_ii_icon_always_been_tio/
The image of Tio was in the PC version on release, but patch 1.1 removed it "to prevent misunderstandings." Is the image's return a mistake, or is XSEED taking the Sega approach to announcement teases? If it's the former, we should get another patch that will remove the image once again in a day or two. If we don't get another patch...
In addition to that, there's two more nuggets that allow you to put things together.
1) The PSP's game manual (or in case of the PC version, the game's website in the Liberlian history section) elaborates a bit on point 3 with the following text.
2) When you first meet with Queen Alicia and she talks about the 100-Days War, she's very clearly glossing over some details, which then ties back to the L-scene later on.
As for the Tio-icon, I'm still as skeptical as I was a few days ago.
1) The PSP's game manual (or in case of the PC version, the game's website in the Liberlian history section) elaborates a bit on point 3 with the following text.
Eventually, those weapons were put to use during a fierce invasion of Liberl by its northern neighbor, the Erebonian Empire, which took place a mere ten years ago. Reacting to senseless atrocities wrought in a southern Imperial village (the cause of which is still unknown to this day, though blame was laid at Liberl's door), Erebonia mobilized an army and used its massive numbers to penetrate Haken Gate into Liberl, where only the Ahnenburg region was spared from occupation.
2) When you first meet with Queen Alicia and she talks about the 100-Days War, she's very clearly glossing over some details, which then ties back to the L-scene later on.
As for the Tio-icon, I'm still as skeptical as I was a few days ago.
Yesterday, Falcom released a February 2019 calendar: https://twitter.com/nihonfalcom/status/1090880251633127424
The 4th of February (exactly 3 days after the icon altering patch) is circled, and the Japanese text says something about XSEED and Steam. Could anyone translate the rest of the note?
(Also, the calendar shows Adol's Ys IX design from the back, covered by a cloak.)
EDIT: To those who have the Steam version, could you check what version number the title screen shows now? If it's the old executable included by accident, it should say 1.0, shouldn't it?
The 4th of February (exactly 3 days after the icon altering patch) is circled, and the Japanese text says something about XSEED and Steam. Could anyone translate the rest of the note?
(Also, the calendar shows Adol's Ys IX design from the back, covered by a cloak.)
EDIT: To those who have the Steam version, could you check what version number the title screen shows now? If it's the old executable included by accident, it should say 1.0, shouldn't it?
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I caved in and started playing Zero No Kiseki Evo with the early English patch on my Vita. Holy crap I am hooked. I was awaiting the proper patch, but I recently started toying with Henkaku on my Vita and got a strong hankering to play some Trails. I’m also still [im]patiently awaiting the Trails 3rd Evo patch so I can finally play that (nonportable RPGs don’t work for me—I actually thought about grabbing a GPDWin just for Trails games but thankfully it looks like the Vita will have all of them eventually assuming someone takes on applying the proper patches to Zero and Ao).
I’ve had a Japanese copy of Zero for a year or two now so I finally decided to try out the existing patch. It is certainly rough—lots of use of the word “various” just like the Nayuta no Kiseki patch—but less than a week later I find myself twenty hours into the game. Despite some clunkiness, the story is very clear and I’ve got to say, I like Zero a lot more than the Sky games so far (and probably more than the Cold Steel games just based on the aesthetic alone).
It’s been a while since I’ve gotten so deep into a JRPG, but I like Zero so much that I immediately ordered a copy of Ao no Kiseki Evo. Hopefully, the Trails 3rd Evo patch will be ready by the time I finish Zero, and with luck someone decides to apply the Ao no Kiseki patch to the Evo version by the time I finish up 3rd. If not, I’ll have to track down the PSP version instead. I feel really fortunate to have so many more of these great games ahead of me.
I’ve had a Japanese copy of Zero for a year or two now so I finally decided to try out the existing patch. It is certainly rough—lots of use of the word “various” just like the Nayuta no Kiseki patch—but less than a week later I find myself twenty hours into the game. Despite some clunkiness, the story is very clear and I’ve got to say, I like Zero a lot more than the Sky games so far (and probably more than the Cold Steel games just based on the aesthetic alone).
It’s been a while since I’ve gotten so deep into a JRPG, but I like Zero so much that I immediately ordered a copy of Ao no Kiseki Evo. Hopefully, the Trails 3rd Evo patch will be ready by the time I finish Zero, and with luck someone decides to apply the Ao no Kiseki patch to the Evo version by the time I finish up 3rd. If not, I’ll have to track down the PSP version instead. I feel really fortunate to have so many more of these great games ahead of me.
