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Kiseki/Trails Community|OT|Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILERTAGS OR DIE!

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,673
Excellent update. And it's probably good they are going to focus more on finishing first pass editing going forward, because while going back and working on some second pass stuff is good, it did stall their public progress.

This really sounds like we're going to get near official release quality on PC though. Really exciting stuff, I can't wait.
 
Dec 16, 2017
9
This really sounds like we're going to get near official release quality on PC though. Really exciting stuff, I can't wait.
I do want that, too. The biggest impossibilities we have no intention of attempting are English voices and Steam integration.

Otherwise, if we can think of it and it's possible to mod it, we can try.
 

Mivey

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,164
The Geofront people keep raising my expectations and then proceed to surpass those too. What an amazing team.

Sounds amazing but that leaves people with an awkward choice to make regarding Ao, doesn’t it?
The weirdest thing is that outside of having a WeChat account, it's basically impossible to get a digital version of it. From a purely technical perspective, they could provide the same improvements to the Ao version as well (once the DRM is removed, I assume)
 
Oct 26, 2017
184
NL
The weirdest thing is that outside of having a WeChat account, it's basically impossible to get a digital version of it. From a purely technical perspective, they could provide the same improvements to the Ao version as well (once the DRM is removed, I assume)
Korean hackers already modified the executable to remove DRM and implement Korean and Japanese scripts in the Chinese version years ago, so DRM shouldn't pose a problem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,427
Korean hackers already modified the executable to remove DRM and implement Korean and Japanese scripts in the Chinese version years ago, so DRM shouldn't pose a problem.
Real problem would be that they'd have to tell people to pirate the game if they wanted the patch.
 

Mivey

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,164
Real problem would be that they'd have to tell people to pirate the game if they wanted the patch.
Well, there seem to be ways of paying via WeChat that aren't totally shady. They ask for like 15% fee on top of the actual transaction, but by god I'd be willing to jump through all the hoops to get myself a legit copy of Ao.
 
Oct 25, 2017
220
Tbh, I also think there may be a better than 0 chance we hear something official about Crossbell before we need to start worrying about how to purchase a copy of Ao for that game's Geofront localization.
 
May 31, 2018
447
Of course, now that Xseed has lost CS3 they can finally start working on the Crossbell games, right?...Right?
There are several hurdles about the Crossbell games that combine to make them a pretty unappealing commercial project for any localizer, be it XSeed, NISA or other party.

- For one, they're PSP games in an era where even the PSP's successor is no longer considered a commercially viable platform, which means they'll need to be ported from scratch. (Joyoland's ports are old, not particularly high quality and the ones who programmed them and would be relied on for technical support only speak Chinese, which is why XSeed commissioned their own ports for Ys Seven and Memories of Celceta instead of trying to adopt and provide support for Joyoland's work) Obviously this can be done, but it significantly raises the costs of the project.

- Both Zero and Ao have very large scripts. It would require a long and thorough translation and editing effort. Which also brings along costs.

- These raised costs for the project are a problem because neither of the games are what we'd consider visually appealing these days. Even if the publisher put whatever high-def assets Falcom has into the game, it'll look on par with the Sky games at best. Trails in the Sky FC had the good fortune to release on Steam back when JRPGs were very rare on the platform, but that's no longer the case these days. Zero might just sell about as well as Sky SC did and Ao about as well as Sky the 3rd did if we're lucky. That might not recompense the costs of both the mammoth translation plus the porting job.

- Another factor that will drive the sales down is the fact that both games have fan translations, which drives their commercial viability down further. While die-hard fans will still buy the games full price on day 1, more casual players who really wanted to know what happened in Crossbell but who already played through the fan translations might not want do that since they barely replay games anyway and will either wait for a 50% off sale or not buy them at all. Companies can't dismiss the absence of the "I want to know what happened"-factor in their cost-benefit analysis.

Back when 3rd was being localized, Brittany already pointed out these factors and why they were a major hurdle. That was when XSeed was still considered Falcom's only western publisher. There was one argument that could be made for XSeed taking on the Crossbell games and that was long-term viability and the idea that the sales of each individual Trails game would slightly boost the sales of the others. If Falcom had said: "We really want you to localize Zero and Ao and if you do, you can have first dibs on Cold Steel III, IV and eventual future Trails games", an argument could be made that even losing money on Crossbell would be compensated by sales from more recent titles with more modern appeal.

Falcom, however, has shown they have no plans to keep the Trails franchise with one particular publisher and will simply auction it off to whatever party offers the most money. This also means there likely won't be any incentives for western publishers to take on high-risk/low-reward projects for long-time benefit, since Falcom's eyes might start wandering again a few years down the line.

If XSeed had any incentive to take on Crossbell before, that's certainly gone now that NISA's taken the second half of the Erebonia arc. Would NISA be willing to take a probable financial loss for long-term maybe/possible benefits? I don't know, but my hunch is not any more than XSeed. I'd love to be wrong, but for the time being, I'm not really taking NISA's vague comments about being "aware" of the Crossbell problem as anything other than PR talk.
 
Mar 3, 2018
149
If XSeed had any incentive to take on Crossbell before, that's certainly gone now that NISA's taken the second half of the Erebonia arc. Would NISA be willing to take a probable financial loss for long-term maybe/possible benefits? I don't know, but my hunch is not any more than XSeed. I'd love to be wrong, but for the time being, I'm not really taking NISA's vague comments about being "aware" of the Crossbell problem as anything other than PR talk.
At the moment, I'd say NISA is more likely to localize the Crossbell games than Xseed, given that Xseed let Brittany go and NISA is the company publishing the games that continue the Crossbell story. I'm still not convinced that any localizer will translate the Crossbell games, although I think it's slightly more possible than I did prior to the NISA Cold Steel 3 announcement (before then, I thought the chances were pretty much zero, pun intended). NISA saying they are "aware" of the problem is pretty meaningless; I'm aware of the problem, too, so what? I'll wait until someone makes an definitive announcement.
 
May 31, 2018
447
Yeah, if Falcom's not gonna let them pick up their potentially profitable projects like Cold Steel III, XSeed has no incentive to take on projects that are almost guaranteed to make them lose money such as the Crossbell games. So XSeed's out on this one.

There was one other thing; people talked about the fan translations being licensed. Personally, I don't think that's gonna happen either due to the fact that they're not the work of one individual and while ZeroMonkey was anti-XSeed rather than anti-any-publisher, it's still a legal mess and one I wager no company would want to bother with even if they're not like Brittany and outright refuse to adopt them without redoing them pretty much from scratch themselves.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,727
There are several hurdles about the Crossbell games that combine to make them a pretty unappealing commercial project for any localizer, be it XSeed, NISA or other party.

- For one, they're PSP games in an era where even the PSP's successor is no longer considered a commercially viable platform, which means they'll need to be ported from scratch. (Joyoland's ports are old, not particularly high quality and the ones who programmed them and would be relied on for technical support only speak Chinese, which is why XSeed commissioned their own ports for Ys Seven and Memories of Celceta instead of trying to adopt and provide support for Joyoland's work) Obviously this can be done, but it significantly raises the costs of the project.

- Both Zero and Ao have very large scripts. It would require a long and thorough translation and editing effort. Which also brings along costs.

- These raised costs for the project are a problem because neither of the games are what we'd consider visually appealing these days. Even if the publisher put whatever high-def assets Falcom has into the game, it'll look on par with the Sky games at best. Trails in the Sky FC had the good fortune to release on Steam back when JRPGs were very rare on the platform, but that's no longer the case these days. Zero might just sell about as well as Sky SC did and Ao about as well as Sky the 3rd did if we're lucky. That might not recompense the costs of both the mammoth translation plus the porting job.

- Another factor that will drive the sales down is the fact that both games have fan translations, which drives their commercial viability down further. While die-hard fans will still buy the games full price on day 1, more casual players who really wanted to know what happened in Crossbell but who already played through the fan translations might not want do that since they barely replay games anyway and will either wait for a 50% off sale or not buy them at all. Companies can't dismiss the absence of the "I want to know what happened"-factor in their cost-benefit analysis.

Back when 3rd was being localized, Brittany already pointed out these factors and why they were a major hurdle. That was when XSeed was still considered Falcom's only western publisher. There was one argument that could be made for XSeed taking on the Crossbell games and that was long-term viability and the idea that the sales of each individual Trails game would slightly boost the sales of the others. If Falcom had said: "We really want you to localize Zero and Ao and if you do, you can have first dibs on Cold Steel III, IV and eventual future Trails games", an argument could be made that even losing money on Crossbell would be compensated by sales from more recent titles with more modern appeal.

Falcom, however, has shown they have no plans to keep the Trails franchise with one particular publisher and will simply auction it off to whatever party offers the most money. This also means there likely won't be any incentives for western publishers to take on high-risk/low-reward projects for long-time benefit, since Falcom's eyes might start wandering again a few years down the line.

If XSeed had any incentive to take on Crossbell before, that's certainly gone now that NISA's taken the second half of the Erebonia arc. Would NISA be willing to take a probable financial loss for long-term maybe/possible benefits? I don't know, but my hunch is not any more than XSeed. I'd love to be wrong, but for the time being, I'm not really taking NISA's vague comments about being "aware" of the Crossbell problem as anything other than PR talk.
 

Kvik

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
889
Downunder.
That last Geofront update is epic. God bless them.
And yeah, I'm not holding my breath for an official release.
Speaking frankly, I'm actually looking forward to playing Zero with Geofront's translation and mod, more so than CS3. Obviously one could argue that a fan translation could not ever compare with a professionally done localisation, but at least for me personally, the QoL improvements alone will contribute more to my enjoyment even more. Considering a fair number of NISA PC releases was outright broken without community mods/fixes, I'll be very surprised if the eventual PC port wasn't broken or marred with delays once again.
 
Oct 28, 2017
202
Still playing Trails in the Sky FC. Just started chapter 2 at 15 hours played.

I'm enjoying it, but I'm still amazed that this game gets away with virtually nothing happening. There's barely even a hint of a villain at this point, and there's no conflict.

I was kinda expecting the sky bandit/lost dad angle to propel Estelle and Joshua forward but at this point their motivation to go to Ruan was literally like "let's go just because!"

I'm enjoying the experience as more of a "lean back" story - treating it like a visual novel. But it's wild that this game gets away with this.
 

Mivey

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,164
What's there to "get away with"? It's giving you hundreds of NPCs to talk with, lots of small quests to solve, and slowly builds the world and hints at a larger story.
I would love more games to do this
 
May 31, 2018
447
Still playing Trails in the Sky FC. Just started chapter 2 at 15 hours played.

I'm enjoying it, but I'm still amazed that this game gets away with virtually nothing happening. There's barely even a hint of a villain at this point, and there's no conflict.

I was kinda expecting the sky bandit/lost dad angle to propel Estelle and Joshua forward but at this point their motivation to go to Ruan was literally like "let's go just because!"

I'm enjoying the experience as more of a "lean back" story - treating it like a visual novel. But it's wild that this game gets away with this.
Stuff is happening. Just subtly behind the scenes and you failed to notice the hints. Trails villains generally don't make their introduction with guns blazing and hammy speeches. (well of them do, but most don't) Like you've seen with the youngest sky bandit sibling, Trails villains know the credo: "if you're gonna shiv someone, make sure you're behind them all the way first".
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,224
I was kinda expecting the sky bandit/lost dad angle to propel Estelle and Joshua forward but at this point their motivation to go to Ruan was literally like "let's go just because!"
It's been a while since I played FC but I distinctly remember the reason behind going to Ruan and continuing the journey was to improve accreditation and become full bracers (graduating from juniorship) along with following the words of Cassius (boots on the ground means you are a more effective bracer during a time of crisis).
 
Oct 28, 2017
202
Stuff is happening. Just subtly behind the scenes and you failed to notice the hints. Trails villains generally don't make their introduction with guns blazing and hammy speeches. (well of them do, but most don't) Like you've seen with the youngest sky bandit sibling, Trails villains know the credo: "if you're gonna shiv someone, make sure you're behind them all the way first".
What's there to "get away with"? It's giving you hundreds of NPCs to talk with, lots of small quests to solve, and slowly builds the world and hints at a larger story.
I would love more games to do this
No need to be defensive, friends. I'm not a dummy and it doesn't take a genius anyway to pick up on the very-frequently-repeated references to something clouding the Don's mind in Chapter 1, and him not acting like himself after "he" showed up.

You literally can't miss it. There's a whole boss fight about it, and an extended denouement about it afterward.

I already said I like the game. It's relaxing. It's pastoral. But what it's "getting away" with is hanging 15+ hours of gameplay onto a (so far) extremely paper-thin scenario.

"Let's go on an adventure" is enough for me. It worked for the first half of Grandia, too. But let's not pretend it is above comment or reproach.
 

Mivey

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,164
I already said I like the game. It's relaxing. It's pastoral. But what it's "getting away" with is hanging 15+ hours of gameplay onto a (so far) extremely paper-thin scenario.

"Let's go on an adventure" is enough for me. It worked for the first half of Grandia, too. But let's not pretend it is above comment or reproach.
That's just it. Those 15 hours already have a lot of interesting world building. It's not as fast paced as a Game of Thrones episode, and frankly, I'm glad that it isn't. If there is one issue I have with modern story-telling, it's that everything has to be so rushed. Having this really, really slow build-up is amazing to me.

It's okay if you find it mildly annoying, that's ok. I'm not saying you are wrong, nor attacking you or anything. Everyone has different views on the world. Some of us are decent, moral people, others put Pineapple on their pizza. Life has all kinds of folks. That's good.

And I happen to really love what FC is doing. It is down right perfect to me.
 
No need to be defensive, friends. I'm not a dummy and it doesn't take a genius anyway to pick up on the very-frequently-repeated references to something clouding the Don's mind in Chapter 1, and him not acting like himself after "he" showed up.

You literally can't miss it. There's a whole boss fight about it, and an extended denouement about it afterward.

I already said I like the game. It's relaxing. It's pastoral. But what it's "getting away" with is hanging 15+ hours of gameplay onto a (so far) extremely paper-thin scenario.

"Let's go on an adventure" is enough for me. It worked for the first half of Grandia, too. But let's not pretend it is above comment or reproach.
Listen to Erpy. You'll look back and see the various threads assembled themselves right there naturally. So keep doing what you're doing and enjoying the smaller gears a-turning.

And when Trails "shivs" you, its shivs you when it's good and ready. Hard.
 

Kvik

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
889
Downunder.
The only way I wouldn't be down on an NISA PC Port is if they hired Durante's new company to do the job for CS3.
PH3's involvement has to be complete in this case and not just limited to a temporary consulting. When CS1/CS2 has set the gold standard of how PC port should be done, it will be inexcusable for NISA to regress back to their Ys VIII ways. I don't know of any other way to ensure a more worthy PC port.

Some of us are decent, moral people, others put Pineapple on their pizza.
Look, you can call me a weeb, degenerate and whatever else. But I won't stand for this slight against pineapples on pizza. :-P
 

Pedetemptim

Self-requested ban.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
239
Sky FC's Chapter 1 is a goldmine of foreshadowing.
1. Joshua gets defensive when Estelle wonders if other Erebonians are anything like Olivier. #NotAllErebonianMen
2. A sentry at the Haken Gate tells you that there should be an Erebonian village called Hamel near the border, but all contact with it was inexplicably lost a decade ago (IIRC, to get this line, you need to talk to him after you are told that Bose's southern district was robbed the night before, but before you go there to investigate and meet Richard).
3. Joshua reads a book on the Hundred Day War, which mentions that Erebonia has never given their reason for declaring the war, calling it a result of a misunderstanding.

Combined with Lorence reproaching Alicia for keeping the Hamel events a secret in Sky FC's Finale and with Lorence clearly having some sort of connection to Joshua, this is pretty much all you need to piece together Joshua's backstory, including the parts that don't get formally revealed until the middle of Sky SC.
 

Pedetemptim

Self-requested ban.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
239
The Steam version of CS II was patched to version 1.4.1 today: https://steamcommunity.com/games/748490/announcements/detail/1742233047017085346

Apparently, it changed the executable icon to an image of Tio (GOG doesn't have the latest patch yet, so I can't confirm the change personally): https://reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/alykq4/has_the_cold_steel_ii_icon_always_been_tio/

The image of Tio was in the PC version on release, but patch 1.1 removed it "to prevent misunderstandings." Is the image's return a mistake, or is XSEED taking the Sega approach to announcement teases? If it's the former, we should get another patch that will remove the image once again in a day or two. If we don't get another patch...
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
447
Sky FC's Chapter 1 is a goldmine of foreshadowing.
1. Joshua gets defensive when Estelle wonders if other Erebonians are anything like Olivier. #NotAllErebonianMen
2. A sentry at the Haken Gate tells you that there should be an Erebonian village called Hamel near the border, but all contact with it was inexplicably lost a decade ago (IIRC, to get this line, you need to talk to him after you are told that Bose's southern district was robbed the night before, but before you go there to investigate and meet Richard).
3. Joshua reads a book on the Hundred Day War, which mentions that Erebonia has never given their reason for declaring the war, calling it a result of a misunderstanding.

Combined with Lorence reproaching Alicia for keeping the Hamel events a secret in Sky FC's Finale and with Lorence clearly having some sort of connection to Joshua, this is pretty much all you need to piece together Joshua's backstory, including the parts that don't get formally revealed until the middle of Sky SC.
In addition to that, there's two more nuggets that allow you to put things together.

1) The PSP's game manual (or in case of the PC version, the game's website in the Liberlian history section) elaborates a bit on point 3 with the following text.
Eventually, those weapons were put to use during a fierce invasion of Liberl by its northern neighbor, the Erebonian Empire, which took place a mere ten years ago. Reacting to senseless atrocities wrought in a southern Imperial village (the cause of which is still unknown to this day, though blame was laid at Liberl's door), Erebonia mobilized an army and used its massive numbers to penetrate Haken Gate into Liberl, where only the Ahnenburg region was spared from occupation.

2) When you first meet with Queen Alicia and she talks about the 100-Days War, she's very clearly glossing over some details, which then ties back to the L-scene later on.

As for the Tio-icon, I'm still as skeptical as I was a few days ago.
 

Pedetemptim

Self-requested ban.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
239
Yesterday, Falcom released a February 2019 calendar: https://twitter.com/nihonfalcom/status/1090880251633127424

The 4th of February (exactly 3 days after the icon altering patch) is circled, and the Japanese text says something about XSEED and Steam. Could anyone translate the rest of the note?

(Also, the calendar shows Adol's Ys IX design from the back, covered by a cloak.)



EDIT: To those who have the Steam version, could you check what version number the title screen shows now? If it's the old executable included by accident, it should say 1.0, shouldn't it?
 
Last edited:

Gu4n

Member
Oct 26, 2017
184
NL
Yesterday, Falcom released a February 2019 calendar: https://twitter.com/nihonfalcom/status/1090880251633127424

The 4th of February (exactly 3 days after the icon altering patch) is circled, and the Japanese text says something about XSEED and Steam. Could anyone translate the rest of the note?
Feb 3: Start of Sen no Kiseki IV merch sales in 15 of the A3 MARKETs in Japan
Feb 4: Start of XSEED Games' sale on Steam (US time)
Feb 13: Last day of the Asia PlayStation Store sale (Chinese/Hangul versions)
 

Pedetemptim

Self-requested ban.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
239
Feb 3: Start of Sen no Kiseki IV merch sales in 15 of the A3 MARKETs in Japan
Feb 4: Start of XSEED Games' sale on Steam (US time)
Feb 13: Last day of the Asia PlayStation Store sale (Chinese/Hangul versions)
Thank you! Now we wait and see if Tio survives the weekend and if there's a special occasion for the upcoming sale.
 
May 23, 2018
65
So, sorry for possibly dumb question but I saw today someone playing Sen IV with english subtitles and does anyone know if these subtitles include everything or is this just main plot?
 
Oct 27, 2017
401
I caved in and started playing Zero No Kiseki Evo with the early English patch on my Vita. Holy crap I am hooked. I was awaiting the proper patch, but I recently started toying with Henkaku on my Vita and got a strong hankering to play some Trails. I’m also still [im]patiently awaiting the Trails 3rd Evo patch so I can finally play that (nonportable RPGs don’t work for me—I actually thought about grabbing a GPDWin just for Trails games but thankfully it looks like the Vita will have all of them eventually assuming someone takes on applying the proper patches to Zero and Ao).

I’ve had a Japanese copy of Zero for a year or two now so I finally decided to try out the existing patch. It is certainly rough—lots of use of the word “various” just like the Nayuta no Kiseki patch—but less than a week later I find myself twenty hours into the game. Despite some clunkiness, the story is very clear and I’ve got to say, I like Zero a lot more than the Sky games so far (and probably more than the Cold Steel games just based on the aesthetic alone).

It’s been a while since I’ve gotten so deep into a JRPG, but I like Zero so much that I immediately ordered a copy of Ao no Kiseki Evo. Hopefully, the Trails 3rd Evo patch will be ready by the time I finish Zero, and with luck someone decides to apply the Ao no Kiseki patch to the Evo version by the time I finish up 3rd. If not, I’ll have to track down the PSP version instead. I feel really fortunate to have so many more of these great games ahead of me.
 

jrpl

Member
Nov 20, 2017
187
So, sorry for possibly dumb question but I saw today someone playing Sen IV with english subtitles and does anyone know if these subtitles include everything or is this just main plot?
Probably the remote play workaround. You stream the game via remote play and you open up a text program to stream Kitsunes spreadsheet translation over. There's no official version with English subs iirc. Asia versions run CN subs