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Kiseki/Trails Community|OT|Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILERTAGS OR DIE!

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,264
Barcelona
I think it would be insane for Falcom to switch localization devs from between CS3 and 4, but I also thought they would be insane for switching it up after Trails and CS1&2 but then they did it.
Both Falcom and NISA want to make Kiseki more relevant in the west, and they are smart enough to know that keeping the fans from playing the direct continuation of a game for several years is not going to be good for the series. What I wonder is which kind of numbers NISA wants from Sen III, they are doing a good job with the marketing so we can expect more than older Kiseki games, but I don't know how relevant this will be in order to greenlit IV (if it's not already on the works).
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,177
Starting to get hyped again for kiseki after just being exhausted after sen 4. Catching up to a ton of news it seems like the reddit ama, apparently we have half a world map now and we kind of know that the next game picks up on sen threads. I'm trying to be open about that it's easier the further I get away from sen 4 and honestly depending on what characters we follow and if it actually has a more unconventional structure like sky 3rd it might not trigger any of the weariness I'm feeling from sen 4. And I goddamn do have a good amount of questions that want some answers left over from that arc.

So I guess it might be good. Trying to gear up for my ao replay which is my last trails platinum left to be done discounting the sky evo games(I don't think I'm interested in those given you can mod voices into the pc version making it even better).
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,808
I'm probably too optimistic for my own good in general, but I'm sure we'll get CS4 too. The games after that and the Crossbell arc are a completely different story, though.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,177
I'm probably too optimistic for my own good in general, but I'm sure we'll get CS4 too. The games after that and the Crossbell arc are a completely different story, though.
I'm still a believer in a crossbell remake with the sen 3/4 assets(I expect the next kiseki game which continues to pick up threads from sen to as well churn out more crossbell assets as a side product) that would be an instantly better proposition. But not sure in a way as well with the new comments hinting more at the evo versions.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,598
I prefer them facing the goals one at a time. First we need a good translation on par or at least close to the other CS games, and then we can worry about how many platforms can run the game. In fact in the shared AX footage there's some small spelling errors, so they need to polish this as much as they cany. I know that the game being on PC makes easy for fans to fix this kind of things, but I think that CS3 being as good as possible on the Ps4 should be NISA's main concern at this moment, more considering that this can greatly effect how the following entries are received (or released) in the west.
The game is already on PS4 (Falcom does the development of that version). They're just doing the localization for it.

A PC port would be done by a different set of people (if they're smart, they've already hired Durante for it). It's definitely understandable not to want the production sides to overlap, but the work itself isn't really going to cross paths.

I think the bigger worry is that it'll be another garbage NISA port. No amount of time is going to save them from that if they decide to do it internally.
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,892
If the translation is accurate he's literally saying that they're preparing to bring the Crossbell games to modern consoles...
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
I prefer them facing the goals one at a time. First we need a good translation on par or at least close to the other CS games, and then we can worry about how many platforms can run the game. In fact in the shared AX footage there's some small spelling errors, so they need to polish this as much as they cany. I know that the game being on PC makes easy for fans to fix this kind of things, but I think that CS3 being as good as possible on the Ps4 should be NISA's main concern at this moment, more considering that this can greatly effect how the following entries are received (or released) in the west.
The people doing the localization aren't the people that would work on porting it to PC, and delaying the PC port for years is just going to make it sell less. We have seen time and again that day and date releases on PC do better than belated ports, especially at full price.

I mean, I get that PC is a complete after thought for most companies, XSEED was the sole exception really, with their own in house PC dev, often even offering exclusive content for PC ports, like more voice overs. It just shouldn't surprise anyone that treating it like a secondary platform will lead to diminished returns, especially as the PC landscape these days is in no shortage of new games, even new JRPGs.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,264
Barcelona
The people doing the localization aren't the people that would work on porting it to PC, and delaying the PC port for years is just going to make it sell less. We have seen time and again that day and date releases on PC do better than belated ports, especially at full price.

I mean, I get that PC is a complete after thought for most companies, XSEED was the sole exception really, with their own in house PC dev, often even offering exclusive content for PC ports, like more voice overs. It just shouldn't surprise anyone that treating it like a secondary platform will lead to diminished returns, especially as the PC landscape these days is in no shortage of new games, even new JRPGs.
I know, and I want all the games to be on PC, as it's the best way to preserve them. But as the PC port has not been announced as a simultaneous release (after what happened with Ys VIII I can't blame them) I hope that this mean that all their efforts now are focused on making the localization as best as possible. And the other CS games were released on PC by XSEED several months after the original console release, and I don't think that the sales were that bad.

I think the bigger worry is that it'll be another garbage NISA port. No amount of time is going to save them from that if they decide to do it internally.
I'm sure that they learned something from the Ys VIII situation, at least the localization from the few segments of Cold Steel III thay NISA showed during AX looks quite good, so I'm confident that they will do the same with the ports.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
I'd hope they plan to contract PH3 for a PC port, it's the logical move after the CS1 and 2 ports were so well recieved and would likely allow the games to maintain a consistent feature set and port quality. But after NIS/A contracted Durante for Ys 8 and then proceeded to throw out his work and not make use of his consultation I'm not sure they'll go back to him.

Hopefully the point Kondo made about holding NISA accountable for quality also applies to ports though.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,598
I'm sure that they learned something from the Ys VIII situation, at least the localization from the few segments of Cold Steel III thay NISA showed during AX looks quite good, so I'm confident that they will do the same with the ports.
No. Confidence needs to be earned, and NISA has never put in the work.

I'd hope they plan to contract PH3 for a PC port, it's the logical move after the CS1 and 2 ports were so well recieved and would likely allow the games to maintain a consistent feature set and port quality. But after NIS/A contracted Durante for Ys 8 and then proceeded to throw out his work and not make use of his consultation I'm not sure they'll go back to him.
Durante wasn't contracted for Ys 8 AFAIK. They contacted him about it, but he was busy with CS2.

He did get beta access and gave them a couple pointers, but that was it.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,264
Barcelona
No. Confidence needs to be earned, and NISA has never put in the work.
Well, tbh I only know the Ys VIII case, which was pretty bad, I'm not familiar with other bad NISA PC ports so maybe they have a worse history than I know. Which I think is that they are trying to avoid another Ys VIII scenario, they said it multiple times, Kondo also talked about it, so even if we won't know until the release date, at least their intentions are to clean their name with this game both with Falcom and with the fans.
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,892
Going by that Kondo interview NISA must have gotten quite the scolding. I'm sure they won't want to piss off Falcom a second time.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
Honestly, so far everything about CS3 is PR, even the "good news" about the localization seems like some fairly late additions who will likely have only very little influence. As for the positive remarks from the voice actors, well, they are paid by NISA after all, if there are problems with the localizations, it's not exactly going to be people on NISA's payroll that will talk about it (duh).

I really, really hope that NISA can improve with CS3, in all terms, but they messed up things too often to give them any benefit of the doubt. I hope I'm wrong (and would be quite happy to be proven totally wrong), but I expect a product that will be in many ways inferior to what XSEED did with Cold Steels 1 and 2. And as a customer, I really have to wonder why Falcom decided all of a sudden to switch their contractor. Nepotism is a hell of a drug.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,598
Honestly, so far everything about CS3 is PR, even the "good news" about the localization seems like some fairly late additions who will likely have only very little influence. As for the positive remarks from the voice actors, well, they are paid by NISA after all, if there are problems with the localizations, it's not exactly going to be people on NISA's payroll that will talk about it (duh).
Unless they changed it in CS3, spoken dialogue is only a fraction of the text in a Trails game.

VO lines usually get the most attention, so it's not necessarily indicative of the overall quality.

I really, really hope that NISA can improve with CS3, in all terms, but they messed up things too often to give them any benefit of the doubt. I hope I'm wrong (and would be quite happy to be proven totally wrong), but I expect a product that will be in many ways inferior to what XSEED did with Cold Steels 1 and 2. And as a customer, I really have to wonder why Falcom decided all of a sudden to switch their contractor. Nepotism is a hell of a drug.
Wasn't it basically confirmed (by people who know) that NISA simply offered the most money?

Falcom doesn't care.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,264
Barcelona
I really, really hope that NISA can improve with CS3, in all terms, but they messed up things too often to give them any benefit of the doubt. I hope I'm wrong (and would be quite happy to be proven totally wrong), but I expect a product that will be in many ways inferior to what XSEED did with Cold Steels 1 and 2. And as a customer, I really have to wonder why Falcom decided all of a sudden to switch their contractor. Nepotism is a hell of a drug.
Well, for now we only have the recorded first hour or so from the game, either way we will know soon enough how the final, complete product is. Obviously the first hour is only main story content, so we can't know how much attention the NPC dialogue got.

Wasn't it basically confirmed (by people who know) that NISA simply offered the most money?
This and something about Kondo knowing some NIS people, but yeah it seems a money matter to me.

I was really sceptic about NISA translating the game (I am still, but not in the same capacity), but what I've watched doesn't seem that bad. I'm talking about the recently published videos, I understand that hiring some older translators etc... can be only a PR move.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
No. Confidence needs to be earned, and NISA has never put in the work.

Durante wasn't contracted for Ys 8 AFAIK. They contacted him about it, but he was busy with CS2.

He did get beta access and gave them a couple pointers, but that was it.
From what I recall he was brought in for consultation, but they didn't really use his input, and he implemented something for them but they rolled it back in a later version.
 
Nov 4, 2017
1,775
With the NISA localization, I'm hoping for the best and expecting the worst. I'd love nothing more than for NISA to prove me wrong and for me to feel like this series is in good hands but we'll see. With regards to the series's future in the west past CS4, I don't necessarily think there's much to worry about as NISA's presence in present and future Falcom bids is all but inevitable, and they almost certainly have the most money to throw around too. The only scenario where I would put the future of the series in the west into question is if NIS shuts down and takes NISA down with it.

For me personally, I'm taking a wait and see approach with the localization. If it's good I'll grab it and if it isn't I'll probably put this series on the backburner until I can read Japanese. To be honest, my bigger concern with NISA is they put out a decent localization with CS3, and once the pressure is off of them, have a dumpster fire with CS4.
 

ToraShiro

NIS America
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
135
Santa Ana, CA
I'm sure that they learned something from the Ys VIII situation,
It was, for many months during and after, a BFD around here.

Ye gods, I'm gonna spend a whole year quashing these rumors, aren't I? They are doing fine.

Obviously a lot of doubt.jpg in here, and I don't blame people. Only thing for us to do is put up or shut up at launch, right?

I bet that only 30% of people will be convinced if we do a good job.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
Obviously a lot of doubt.jpg in here, and I don't blame people. Only thing for us to do is put up or shut up at launch, right?

I bet that only 30% of people will be convinced if we do a good job.
Yeah, consistency will change opinions, so to be honest I think you're right. Nail CS3 and there will be more relief than anything. Nail CS4 and people will start easing up. Nail Zero, Sen the 5th, or whatever comes next and most will probably be fine with the new status quo.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
I'm ~9 hours into 3rd, just finished the first half of Chapter 3 (I went Silver Road first, that was probably the toughest boss so far). I've only been able to do 1 Moon, 1 Sun, and 2 Star doors so far with the characters I have (I think). Doing the doors seems like the best way to get money outside of selling Sepith.

The repetitive structure of the game feels kind of like a dungeon crawler with bits of story and then flashbacks thrown in to give character moments between the events of SC and 3rd. This is an odd format for the game, but I'm not against it.
Looking forward to trying to beat SC, 3rd, Zero, Ao, and replaying CS1&2 in these 11 weeks when it takes me 100+ hours on average to beat a single one of these games. ;_;
I think most of those are way shorter than 100+ hours. At least I ended SC in 64 hours and 3rd has an average finish time of 32 hours on HLTB. I do quite a bit of the side content, but not all of it. Still quite a tall task.
 

klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
AZ, USA
I think most of those are way shorter than 100+ hours. At least I ended SC in 64 hours and 3rd has an average finish time of 32 hours on HLTB. I do quite a bit of the side content, but not all of it. Still quite a tall task.
They are, but I'm the kinda person who talks to every single NPCs any time anything happens and I do all the side quests as well. There is a LOT of running back and forth lol.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
They are, but I'm the kinda person who talks to every single NPCs any time anything happens and I do all the side quests as well. There is a LOT of running back and forth lol.

and you only have yourselves to blame for that
I wouldn't equate hard working developers with people in higher management, who are most likely to blame for NISA's repeated blunders (not giving enough resources and time, most likely)
 

nivorae

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,426



I wouldn't equate hard working developers with people in higher management, who are most likely to blame for NISA's repeated blunders (not giving enough resources and time, most likely)
i do blame developers if they cannot do decent work without Alan Costa looking over their shoulder.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
i do blame developers if they cannot do decent work without Alan Costa looking over their shoulder.
I'm saying that you need to get and maintain good people, and give them the time they need, and NISA terrible track record is certainly built on skimping out on those things.

I really thought you were talking about this Brazilian football player, before I saw that's it also the name of a NISA marketing dude. God that was needlessly confusing 🤣️
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,873
It was, for many months during and after, a BFD around here.



Ye gods, I'm gonna spend a whole year quashing these rumors, aren't I? They are doing fine.

Obviously a lot of doubt.jpg in here, and I don't blame people. Only thing for us to do is put up or shut up at launch, right?

I bet that only 30% of people will be convinced if we do a good job.
Having played post patch Ysviii I'm pretty optimistic about CSIII so guess I might be part of that percentage XD
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,536
People are going to go way overboard as soon as a grammar mistake is spotted in the game. Maybe someone will make a special website
 

Xagarath

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,618
North-East England
NISA have done good PC ports/localisation jobs on several other recent releases - Labyrinth of Refrain, both Yomowari Games, A Rose in the Twilight, etc. Ys VIII is also a decent port in its current state - far better than some other recent translation jobs I've encountered.
I'm happy to wait and see on CSIII.

Playing through CSII at present and I have far more concerns about whatever happened to Fie's outfit.
 
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shimon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
It was, for many months during and after, a BFD around here.



Ye gods, I'm gonna spend a whole year quashing these rumors, aren't I? They are doing fine.

Obviously a lot of doubt.jpg in here, and I don't blame people. Only thing for us to do is put up or shut up at launch, right?

I bet that only 30% of people will be convinced if we do a good job.
I just hope that your "solution" to the Ys VIII pc port debacle ISN'T to NOT release a pc port for SEN III...
 

nivorae

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,426
NISA have done good PC ports/localisation jobs on several other recent releases - Labyrinth of Refrain, both Yomowari Games, A Rose in the Twilight, etc. Ys VIII is also a decent port in its current state - far better than some other recent translation jobs I've encountered.
I'm happy to wait and see on CSIII.

Playing through CSII at present and I have far more concerns about whatever happened to Fie's outfit.
Yomawari, with the "authentic Vita experience" locked at 30fps port, good?
 

skLaFarebear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
833
Yall bein feisty feisty for a Wednesday.

The interviews with Kondo were pretty interesting in how much more transparent he was regarding future plans, especially regarding Crossbell. I'd have written it up as some translator error or something if it was just one interview but it was pretty consistent throughout the ones that I've seen that he not only wants to bring it to modern platforms (it was only a matter of time so this wasn't surprising tbh) but that he also wants to find a publisher to bring them both west. It's likely still Kondo being Kondo and just saying a bunch of stuff just for the interview, but it's nice to see some kind of answer instead of him just playing it off.

Whatever they plan on doing (remastering Crossbell or remaking it with Sen 3/4 assets), I don't expect news on it anytime soon and we're probably not likely to hear much from Falcom regarding anything new that's Trails till their next shareholder meeting since they'll probably be using TGS time exclusively for Ys IX
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,808
Need to finish my replay of SC, the 3rd, CSI and CS2 + playing for the first time Zero & Ao before september. RIP.
I'm most of the way there now that I literally just now finished Ao. I'll probably start Cold Steel tonight, I do want to have a Trails break of a month or two before CS3.
 

garion333

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,147
The interviews with Kondo were pretty interesting in how much more transparent he was regarding future plans, especially regarding Crossbell. I'd have written it up as some translator error or something if it was just one interview but it was pretty consistent throughout the ones that I've seen that he not only wants to bring it to modern platforms (it was only a matter of time so this wasn't surprising tbh) but that he also wants to find a publisher to bring them both west. It's likely still Kondo being Kondo and just saying a bunch of stuff just for the interview, but it's nice to see some kind of answer instead of him just playing it off.
This is where I'm at and I'm hyped. In one interview he even said "and I'm sure NISA will localize it." Meaning, he expects this partnership to be long-term. It really feels like it's on a whole new level when compared to before. Their relationship appears to be closer than it ever was with XSEED, but it may also be the PR push from NISA.

Anyway, the candor from Kondo was shocking. Having read and seen enough interviews from him over the years, the stuff from this trip about Crossbell simply blew my mind.

Also, I'm a bit disappointed that his mention of Tokyo Xanadu's sequel was that it was still in the back of his mind. I was hoping it would be sooner rather than later because a second go at that game is something I'd like Falcom to do sooner rather than later.
 
Nov 4, 2017
1,775
Yall bein feisty feisty for a Wednesday.

The interviews with Kondo were pretty interesting in how much more transparent he was regarding future plans, especially regarding Crossbell. I'd have written it up as some translator error or something if it was just one interview but it was pretty consistent throughout the ones that I've seen that he not only wants to bring it to modern platforms (it was only a matter of time so this wasn't surprising tbh) but that he also wants to find a publisher to bring them both west. It's likely still Kondo being Kondo and just saying a bunch of stuff just for the interview, but it's nice to see some kind of answer instead of him just playing it off.

Whatever they plan on doing (remastering Crossbell or remaking it with Sen 3/4 assets), I don't expect news on it anytime soon and we're probably not likely to hear much from Falcom regarding anything new that's Trails till their next shareholder meeting since they'll probably be using TGS time exclusively for Ys IX
Depending on how long it takes for Calvard (which seems to be at least 3 years), I'd imagine we'll get Crossbell before then both in Japan and in the west, though I highly doubt they're going to be remakes. If anything I expect them to just be the already existing Evo versions put on PS4.