Kiseki/Trails Community|OT|Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILERTAGS OR DIE!

atlans89

Member
Oct 25, 2017
226
Falcom's continued insistence upon not letting localization partners touch their games until they launch in Japan is yet another reason why I can't really take their desire to grow in the West seriously. There's nothing normal about turnarounds this lengthy for overseas releases of JRPGs in today's market, and the amount of work that goes into preparing an English release of a Trails game is all the more reason why it makes no sense not to have the teams entrusted to their localizations be involved earlier. I'm not particularly convinced that we'll even see CS IV before early 2021, and that was with CS II under XSeed being less than a year after CS I.
Kondo did mention this in recent interview. Last time they did it with Sony Asia to localize CS1/2, it caused so much trouble because Falcom continuously fixed the script until it was ready to launch, which caused a lot trouble to localizing process for Sony Asia. Since then, they avoided to do that.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,524
Yeah Falcom works on their stuff right up to the wire.

If you want things to be localized faster, ask Falcom to reduce the volume of their modern games.
 

lucancel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
402
Yeah Falcom works on their stuff right up to the wire.

If you want things to be localized faster, ask Falcom to reduce the volume of their modern games.
They did it, didn't they? But not with the script lol but with the game content.
See cold steel 1+2 (It shows) and 3+4 (i suppose).
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,751
Kondo did mention this in recent interview. Last time they did it with Sony Asia to localize CS1/2, it caused so much trouble because Falcom continuously fixed the script until it was ready to launch, which caused a lot trouble to localizing process for Sony Asia. Since then, they avoided to do that.
Sounds like they should just hold off in giving late script changes to their localization partner. If you can assume that you'll change a lot of smaller stuff very often, then just hold off in communicating them until release, and let them release a day one patch. Or just pass the changes every 3 months or whatever. With proper tooling it will be clear what has changed, and it should give their loc. team enough time to incorporate the stuff into the final script.


This isn't rocket science, and Falcom should really make it a point in getting their games out in the West sooner if they want to have any sizeable audience there.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,498
Barcelona
Or just pass the changes every 3 months or whatever. With proper tooling it will be clear what has changed, and it should give their loc. team enough time to incorporate the stuff into the final script.
Agreed, they can share a code repository and use any version-control tool. At least it works really well with normal code, I don't know if massive scripts would present a problem but even so I'm sure there are specific tools.
 
Last edited:

Open Wound

Member
Nov 7, 2017
232
They did it, didn't they? But not with the script lol but with the game content.
See cold steel 1+2 (It shows) and 3+4 (i suppose).
By what metric are you measuring game content?

Falcom's games for sure are getting longer at the very least. Ys Seven and Celceta are larger than any other Ys game that came before and Ys VIII is a straight 50/60 hour epic, while Cold Steel 1 is the longest game in the series thus far with presumably CSIII being even longer.
 

nivorae

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,497
By what metric are you measuring game content?

Falcom's games for sure are getting longer at the very least. Ys Seven and Celceta are larger than any other Ys game that came before and Ys VIII is a straight 50/60 hour epic, while Cold Steel 1 is the longest game in the series thus far with presumably CSIII being even longer.
time wise CS3 and CS4 are the longest, script size probably too but we cannot verify that because cracking ps4 games is incredibly slow
 
Oct 27, 2017
299
I've actually been quite surprised by how extensive NISA's merchandising efforts for CS III have been (not a compliment in any way, simply an observation).
I'm not that surprised. NISA, for all their faults, really do push their big games which is nice. Ys VIII had a pretty large push as well, it had huge ads all over the places you'd expect online. It's weird and cool to see a Trails game getting the same treatment.
 

Lucentto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
189
So with CS3 coming soon I really need to know: Do I need to play Ao and Zero beforehand? I don't want to play the game if there are going to be many plot points that I don't understand. Or should I just wait on CS3 until I play those?
 

atlans89

Member
Oct 25, 2017
226
Playing Crossbell arc will enrich your experience, and some part of the game will have greater impact to you. Do play if you can afford to do so, just don't think it's gatekeeping you from playing CS3.
 

Jiraiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
Randy and Tio's chemistry is more than enough reason to play Zero and Ao as soon as you can. Do it now!
 

Kilic95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,654
Chireiden
Well I cleared Ao no Kiseki Chapter 2 yesterday. I might actually beat it before Cold Steel III comes out!

The game is fantastic so far, probably in my top 3 Kiseki games.
 

lucancel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
402
Best kiseki imho. Slow beginning but It improves going on and the scope becomes bigger and bigger.
Zero was a great detective story and the base ground to build upon
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,010
As it turned out, the lack of Japanese audio in the original localisations had been the decision of global publisher Xseed. "I don't know why they made their decision," explains Kondo. "But I do know that when we spoke with NIS America [global publisher of Trails of Cold Steel 3], they were very adamant about giving [dual audio] to the fans. It's actually a very easy feature for us to implement, so going forward, should we be informed that's what they want, then we're happy to accommodate."
Was a bit surprised by this but maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
 
Last edited:

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
904

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,010
Falcom is such a unique developer.

I do wish they changed to unreal engine development.... even if it meant taking a year+ to learn it.
I oftern compared the tales series to the trails series being stuck in the past regarding its looks. Now Tales has taking the leap, and its next game is looking amazing.
That part about the engine was so frustrating to read. Epic even went to them.

Anyway,
that scene with Lechter on the boat is hilarious. I'm about to enter the Schwartz Auction,
I can tell shit's about to get real.
 
Last edited:

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
904
Also, that interview ruffling some feathers online about XSEEDs decision to not include Japanese audio for CS1 and CS2.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,751
I like that that Falcom has things planned for Eastern Zemuria, would love to get info about stuff that's on the Eastern coast of the continent, or whether there is even another coast there (could see it being some sort of unexplored "Wild East"

Also, that interview ruffling some feathers online about XSEEDs decision to not include Japanese audio for CS1 and CS2.
Is there any reason on XSEEDs part, if it wasn't about licensing, and Kondo himself admits it would be trivial to add?
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
826
Also, that interview ruffling some feathers online about XSEEDs decision to not include Japanese audio for CS1 and CS2.
Mostly because from what I always heard, the Japanese dub was simply not available to them back when CS1 and CS2 first launched. Kondo's statment that it was always easy for Falcom to "implement" it kinda missed the point because it was never the technical implementation that was deemed the issue, but rather the licensing process.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
Honestly that line about XSEED almost feels like throwing them under the bus more than anything, considering I've talked to actual XSEED employees that worked on Cold Steel 1/2 that very candidly said that getting the rights to the Japanese audio back then was impossible with the resources available to them, legally and financially.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
So uh, hold up, this latest bus-throw about XSEED "choosing" not to have Dual Audio contradicts what Kondo himself said a few years ago.

One of the biggest complaints about Trails of Cold Steel is the English dub replacing the Japanese original, which featured famous anime voice actors. Is there a possibility of seeing the original dub released as DLC, similar to what Square Enix did with Drakengard 3?

TK:
Recently, we have seen many requests for the Japanese voice track to be included. There are many issues to consider in order to make this a reality, but if the demand is really that strong, it is definitely something that we want to consider.
Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-02-14-falcom-vs-the-fans

I'm uh... Getting a sense that XSEED's and Falcom's bridge is in the realm of "Completely Incinerated, Reduced to Atoms", and that Kondo is very subtly throwing shade at them.
 

nivorae

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,497
So uh, hold up, this latest bus-throw about XSEED "choosing" not to have Dual Audio contradicts what Kondo himself said a few years ago.



Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-02-14-falcom-vs-the-fans

I'm uh... Getting a sense that XSEED's and Falcom's bridge is in the realm of "Completely Incinerated, Reduced to Atoms", and that Kondo is very subtly throwing shade at them.
I was going to post this quote myself but, yeah it's a crock of shit. It's unprofessional and uncalled for, just because XSEED didn't want to localise their kusoge TX as a vite exclusive at the time.

I have had it confirmed from several sources years back that the dubbing thing was a case of Falcom never having made their contracts to be prepared for secondary overseas licensing deals. And i think (hope) everyone knows that the japanese voice acting business is infamous for how though it is to open new negotiations. It is exactly after that interview that Saber just posted that Falcom's releases changed, when Kondo acknowledged that demand with surprise they started to negotiate the contracts with a new clausule that makes it a lot easier for a third party to license said deal. The only reason that the PS4 ports of cold steel had said dual audio is because Falcom themselves had to renegotiate new contracts with the voice actors of the game to re-release the game domestically.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,498
Barcelona
I'm uh... Getting a sense that XSEED's and Falcom's bridge is in the realm of "Completely Incinerated, Reduced to Atoms", and that Kondo is very subtly throwing shade at them.
But why should he do this? I mean, XSEED has done a lot to make Falcom beloved in the west, and so far NISA has a mixed story with Falcom (CS III seems to be well received and have good marketing but Ys VIII was a localization disaster that was not that good for Falcom's image) and as far as we know they wanted to do Ys VIII and CS III, but NISA and Falcom got buddy-buddy and decided to work together.

If XSEED had decided not to work with Falcom, and Falcom went to NISA in a hurry as a replacement, I would understand Kondo throwing shade at XSEED, but as the thing are he should be grateful.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,590
But why should he do this? I mean, XSEED has done a lot to make Falcom beloved in the west, and so far NISA has a mixed story with Falcom (CS III seems to be well received and have good marketing but Ys VIII was a localization disaster that was not that good for Falcom's image) and as far as we know they wanted to do Ys VIII and CS III, but NISA and Falcom got buddy-buddy and decided to work together.

If XSEED had decided not to work with Falcom, and Falcom went to NISA in a hurry as a replacement, I would understand Kondo throwing shade at XSEED, but as the thing are he should be grateful.
XSEED did decide not to work with Falcom when they opted not to localize Tokyo Xanadu. Falcom wanted it localized and XSEED thought it was a good idea to bet the farm on Akiba's Beat instead.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
826
XSEED did decide not to work with Falcom when they opted not to localize Tokyo Xanadu. Falcom wanted it localized and XSEED thought it was a good idea to bet the farm on Akiba's Beat instead.
At the same time, when Falcom wanted Tokyo Xanadu localized, it was a Vita only-title and due to the Vita market not being flourishing in the west, that meant it wasn't a particularly attractive project. If they had wanted to make it more attractive, Falcom should have let slip the tidbit that it wasn't gonna stay a Vita exclusive and that they were already working on a PS4 port. They didn't, so XSeed passed on it.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,498
Barcelona
XSEED did decide not to work with Falcom when they opted not to localize Tokyo Xanadu. Falcom wanted it localized and XSEED thought it was a good idea to bet the farm on Akiba's Beat instead.
I see, but even so they decided to do really good PC ports of the Sen games, Ys games, even the Zwei games recently, they released Sora the 3rd in 2017 (which is kind of insane) and they are known for good localization and how they improve the Kiseki games with lots of patches (turbo mode, revised localization etc...).

I always got the impression that NISA and Falcom got a deal regarding the new big releases and XSEED got the rights to localize some of the smaller games as a "consolation prize", either way Falcom has no reason at all to be angry with XSEED unless I'm wrong and the decision to not localize the recent Kiseki/Ys games came from XSEED.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,590
At the same time, when Falcom wanted Tokyo Xanadu localized, it was a Vita only-title and due to the Vita market not being flourishing in the west, that meant it wasn't a particularly attractive project. If they had wanted to make it more attractive, Falcom should have let slip the tidbit that it wasn't gonna stay a Vita exclusive and that they were already working on a PS4 port. They didn't, so XSeed passed on it.
Plenty of other companies XSEED's size and smaller like PQube, Aksys, etc. were still doing Vita-only games and having success with them. It's XSEED's fault for passing on the game, like they passed on their own parent company's Valkyrie Drive (which did quite well for PQube). XSEED ended up going back on their decision anyway when they localized London Detective Mysteria after all this had already went down.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
This will never not send me, especially considering how well Akiba’s Beat did...
Hey if it's any consolation, it's not like Tokyo Xanadu did well in the west either.

Whereas Akiba's Beat was the sequel to a early-gen hit Meme Game that brought in the kind of money needed to subsidize XSEED's Falcom localizations. It only made sense to focus on it. XSEED had already sunk too much on localizing it when the game turned out to be shit in Japan.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,590
Hey if it's any consolation, it's not like Tokyo Xanadu did well in the west either.

Whereas Akiba's Beat was the sequel to a early-gen hit Meme Game that brought in the kind of money needed to subsidize XSEED's Falcom localizations. It only made sense to focus on it. XSEED had already sunk too much on localizing it when the game turned out to be shit in Japan.
It wasn't really a sequel, though. Only the setting was the same, they turned it into a crappy Tales clone and got rid of the stuff people liked from Akiba's Trip 2 (the stripping, licensed shops, general wackiness etc.) I don't know how they thought that was a good idea.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
It wasn't really a sequel, though. Only the setting was the same, they turned it into a crappy Tales clone and got rid of the stuff people liked from Akiba's Trip 2 (the stripping, licensed shops, general wackiness etc.) I don't know how they thought that was a good idea.
I mean, you gotta look at it from a business perspective. Which of these makes more sense to spend your resources on?

A game in the same series as a really successful Streamer Bait game that probably kept the entire company afloat earlier in the generation

or, a Vita exclusive (IE, a dead platform) from a developer who's titles are on a razor-thin margin as it is.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,590
I mean, you gotta look at it from a business perspective. Which of these makes more sense to spend your resources on?

A game in the same series as a really successful Streamer Bait game that probably kept the entire company afloat earlier in the generation

or, a Vita exclusive (IE, a dead platform) from a developer who's titles are on a razor-thin margin as it is.
Vita was dead to the general public, sure, but it still had a hardcore fanbase who bought almost everything worthwhile that was being released on it. Tokyo Xanadu also had the benefit of not being attached to 6-7 other games in an on-going franchise unlike the Trails games so you could just play that and not be lost on the story. Plus like I said other companies were still having success on Vita, the only reason Limited Run Games is stopping is because Sony won't let them manufacture anymore carts. XSEED should've made sure of what they were getting into with Akiba's Beat before investing hard in it, it's not like even big franchises are immune to duds (Devil May Cry 2, etc.)
 

asd202

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,189
Do we know anything about Cold Steel IV coming? I remember when Xseed announced Cold Steel I they confirmed Cold Steel II is coming as well.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,498
Barcelona
Do we know anything about Cold Steel IV coming? I remember when Xseed announced Cold Steel I they confirmed Cold Steel II is coming as well.
I think it's all but confirmed. NISA is marketing Sen III a lot, they have even created a website filled with summaries of the older games etc... Also they are doing lots of promotional interviews with Kondo these last months, I'm sure that IV's translation has been already started and that they are waiting for III's release and sales to confirm it.
 

Stalk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
484
Finished up CS2 after dropping it hard sometime last year andddd I really kinda felt it fell apart as it went on, the chapter before the epilogue was certainly an interesting excursion but having an entire dungeon as part of it felt.. unneeded and a bit bloated. The epilogue itself had some nice story beats and wrapping up everyone's story was cool but I did not enjoy that final boss at all.

I'm hoping CS3 will be more my jam, can anyone tell me how it is tonally compared to CS1/2? I don't wanna be that "but sky was better" guy but the tonal shift between Sky and CS was a bit of a problem for me.
 

nivorae

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,497
Do we know anything about Cold Steel IV coming? I remember when Xseed announced Cold Steel I they confirmed Cold Steel II is coming as well.
nothing is confirmed ut ideally nisa will announce it quite fast after cs3 drops, for everyone's sanity
Finished up CS2 after dropping it hard sometime last year andddd I really kinda felt it fell apart as it went on, the chapter before the epilogue was certainly an interesting excursion but having an entire dungeon as part of it felt.. unneeded and a bit bloated. The epilogue itself had some nice story beats and wrapping up everyone's story was cool but I did not enjoy that final boss at all.

I'm hoping CS3 will be more my jam, can anyone tell me how it is tonally compared to CS1/2? I don't wanna be that "but sky was better" guy but the tonal shift between Sky and CS was a bit of a problem for me.
The best way to describe CS3 is that it does what CS1 does but way better, it is stacked to the brim with good content and never feels like it really drags on despite being *long* having played all previous games also pays off very well in both chapter 1 and 2. I personally like the combat more too, it's more snappy imo.
 

Neoweee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
nothing is confirmed ut ideally nisa will announce it quite fast after cs3 drops, for everyone's sanity

The best way to describe CS3 is that it does what CS1 does but way better, it is stacked to the brim with good content and never feels like it really drags on despite being *long* having played all previous games also pays off very well in both chapter 1 and 2. I personally like the combat more too, it's more snappy imo.
Do you have suggestions on difficulty? Is Nightmare ballpark close enough to CS2? I did CS1 on Hard and CS2 on Nightmare, and thoroughly enjoyed both, having a way above average number of great and interesting boss fights and minibosses. The series is so erratic with difficulty levels, though, and the series is pretty stupid about not being able to change difficulty levels midgame. I'd hate to get stuck like is genuinely possible against CS1's final boss fight on Nightmare.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,871
So, I finally finished the third. Despite my comments earlier, I did enjoy it a lot. I spent about 55 hours in it, but a lot of that was grinding at the end. The lore in the star and moon doors was great. I could take or leave the sun doors, tho some of them were kind of fun. I especially like Star 14 and 15. 15 because of what it reveals, and 14 because of how it's basically the epiloge to SC. I tend to agree with others that the third is great, if only because of what it sets up for future games.

It's a bit surprising that door 15 revealed so much about Renne, and set up Zero, since I heard that Zero and Ao weren't originally part of the plan, and that FalcomZ had meant to go straight to cold steel. I do feel that door 15 completely redeemed Renne, and I wish I had played the third before Zero, since I didn't think Renne deserved the happy ending she got in that game, having only ever seen her in Zero. It seemed inexplicable that Estelle and Joshua could care so much about her, but after playing SC and more so The Third, I completely understand. I can't wait to see her in CS3, and see how far she's come since Ao.

I like how much backstory we get on Kevin and Reis, especially since she's introduced in this game. I remember when I first started playing SC many many years ago, I was wondering who the hell Kevin was. Now I know. They're both pretty awesome. I did like learning more about nearly all of the FC/SC people, tho I admit my favorites was probably Mueller and Olivert's door (tho I admittedly adore Olivert, and he's probably my favorite character from the trilogy)

I thought the gameplay was good. It's strange that I *think* Zero/Ao take a step back in terms of orbment, since Trails tells you what spells you'll get when you insert an orbment, versus Zero/Ao's lack of information. Towards the end, I had ground so much that all of my characters had the top quartz (gold, topaz, silver, etc) Strangely, I almost never used chain throughout SC and the Third. I just never found a use for it. I did mess up on the last boss of the third, when it did it's instant kill attack, I thought I had more time, so didn't use Kevin's sc. Luckily, one of my characters barely surived, and I had most of my zerum capsules left (that's why you save them for the last boss! Reminds me of how I saved all my burst orbs for the last boss in Ao.) I beat it on normal, so I was happy.

So, over the past 3 months, I've played ~300 hours of trails games, starting with Zero, and Ao, because I wanted to be ready for CS3.and then SC and the Third because I was jazzed from playing Z/A and I wanted to keep playing Trails games. As I've said before, I looooove the world building in these games. I loved going back and seeing characters in CS1/2 being introduced, seeing stuff mentioned that would be followed up in Z/A or how Z/A take place concurrently with CS1/2 and there's stuff that's shown in CS2 that's explained in Ao. Ao chapter 4 is my absolute favorite chapter in all of trails. It hits you like a ton of bricks, and completely changes the game, taking it from ho hum to holy shit.

I went back, and looked, and I've spent about 570 hours playing trails game since I got CS1 on the vita (and beat it) back in feb of 2016. I love this series. No one else is trying anything this ambitious, and I'm so glad CS3 and almost certainly 4, are coming out in the west. I'm eagerly awaiting 3. A little over two weeks to go.

I want to go back and play CS 1 and 2, but I think that might burn me out. Maybe I'll do a new game + run through before 4. Play the finished Geofront translation for Zero, too.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
826
Strangely, I almost never used chain throughout SC and the Third. I just never found a use for it.
There's two uses for them, one technical and the other practical. The technical one is AT order management. Just like you can use quick-to-cast arts like Tear to "add" turns to the turn order, you can use chain crafts to subtract turns from the turn order if you want to deny a strong enemy a strong turn bonus without sacrificing an S-craft to steal it.

It's also a good way to take advantage of critical hit turns (especially if the one getting the critical is a low-strength character like Kloe or Olivier) since all characters participating in the chain take advantage of the turn bonus, which very quickly adds up, especially if you use Mueller or Julia, since their chain attacks hit twice. (Julia's hits everyone twice while Mueller only does two hits on the primary target)