Kiseki/Trails Community |OT| Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILER TAGS OR DIE!

Sandstar · Oct 12, 2019

Neoweee said:
Didn't Xseed say the same thing about CS2 though? This is still probably a better entry point than CS2 was, because it doesn't start during the middle of a plot arc.

I don't recall, but what kind of idiot would suggest that CS2 is a good jumping on point? It's like saying Endgame is a good jumping on point for the MCU. Like, the only second entry in a series that I think could be a jumping on point is Winter soldier (70 years is a time jump, NISA, not a year and a half), but I'm sure there are more.

SaberVS7 said:
Sadly, NISA may very well have been the only option for future Kiseki games to get localized at all - As far as everyone's able to tell, XSEED's relationship with Falcom is completely burnt and everything Falcom-related XSEED published since CS2's original release was just stuff they already had the license to from before said relation came crashing down. And Aksys was probably firmly burnt on Falcom stuff after Tokyo Xanadu did poorly for them (And even if they weren't, TX's localization is barely any better than Ys 8's original English script). Atlus USA really only does Sega stuff now, so they're out of the picture. And Gaijinworks? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

And well, good luck trying to get anyone bigger than the ones listed above to be willing to localize Falcom's stuff. Especially since bigger publishers like Namco, Konami, and a few others once did publish Falcom's titles in the west but ended up dropping them, leaving Falcom's titles in Japan for years until XSEED took a gamble on them.

From what I understand, that's because Xseed didn't want to publish Tokyo Xanadu? It's falcom's problem that they got butthurt because Xseed didn't want to localize a game that apparently did terribly for Aksys.

Kilic95 · Oct 12, 2019

Neoweee said:
only Lloyd gets a (fairly decent) entry out of the Crossbell crew for obvious reasons, while Randy gets... nothing.

Niks · Oct 12, 2019

^ Kinda wierd Randy doesnt get an entry since he is one of the first "new" characters you get to meet.. and he is related to the situation in Crossbell and a certain Jaeger group. Same goes for "Petiote".

Sandstar · Oct 12, 2019

Maybe it'll become clear when we play the game?

atlans89 · Oct 12, 2019

Sandstar said:
Maybe it'll become clear when we play the game?

That's right. Though since he is a returning character, everything about him come straight to you instead of him deliberately hiding and require you discovering stuff about him.

And let's say Rean is very wary of him due to clashing with his partner in the past

Chaosblade · Oct 12, 2019

Sandstar said:
From what I understand, that's because Xseed didn't want to publish Tokyo Xanadu? It's falcom's problem that they got butthurt because Xseed didn't want to localize a game that apparently did terribly for Aksys.

XSEED probably would have localized it too if Falcom had been open about the fact TX had a PS4 port planned.

Sandstar · Oct 12, 2019

atlans89 said:
That's right. Though since he is a returning character, everything about him come straight to you instead of hiding and discovering stuff about him.

That's what I thought. Randy's introduced to us through the game (tho if you've played the crossbell arc, you already know who he is)

Tho, if you haven't, I hope the fact that Shirley's his sister is treated as a shocking revelation in game.

Chaosblade said:
XSEED probably would have localized it too if Falcom had been open about the fact TX had a PS4 port planned.

Oh, that's right, Xseed thought it was only on the vita. Jesus christ, Falcom is a spoiled brat of a company.

SenseiX · Oct 12, 2019

I mean I played a whole chapter of Sen3 back when it released and I was like midway through Sen1 and Zero.
I was extremely confused when Rean started talking with this giant robot that's taking a knee inside the train.

Deleted member 9746 · Oct 12, 2019

Neoweee said:
only Lloyd gets a (fairly decent) entry out of the Crossbell crew for obvious reasons, while Randy gets... nothing.

Sandstar said:
Tho, if you haven't, I hope the fact that Shirley's his sister is treated as a shocking revelation in game.

She's his cousin.

atlans89 · Oct 12, 2019

Still, let's just say

Randy's exposure in CS3 is a lot better than Estelle/Joshua in Zero. But it might be personal opinion. Without playing Sky trilogy, Estelle/Joshua feels very distant to me, maybe the new Enami's art is partly to blame

dojo32161 · Oct 12, 2019

atlans89 said:
Still, let's just say

Randy's exposure in CS3 is a lot better than Estelle/Joshua in Zero. But it might be personal opinion. Without playing Sky trilogy, Estelle/Joshua feels very distant to me, maybe the new Enami's art is partly to blame

Oof, yeah, Estelle and Joshua look pretty bleh in Zero. Joshua especially, feels like he's just hair dye and clown makeup away from being an edgy Joker.

Sandstar · Oct 12, 2019

Pringles said:
She's his cousin.

Oh, darnit, you're right.

Deleted member 6233 · Oct 12, 2019

Korigama said:
Pretty much what I'm expecting to happen, yeah.

The Xenosaga series is indeed the next closest thing in respect to overall ambition, but the level of competency, sense of focus, and overall coherence are all significantly lacking with those games by comparison. I considered it quite a mess after all was said and done, and that was after getting only three games when they had intended to make six before poor sales and developer in-fighting got in the way of that.

Korigama I indeed did mean that just in terms of overall ambition that Xenosaga is the closest thing to The Legend of Heroes games. I felt personally the competency, focus and coherence was there in Xenosaga 1. 2 and 3? In those games those things are definitely lacking, I'll agree on that with the other two games in that series. I think everything was set up great in Xenosaga 1. It all came crashing down though with them only getting to tell half of that planned story. Anytime you get in a situation like that it hurts the whole project a lot. Falcom has been incredibly fortunate they've been able to tell their whole story they've envisioned and I think they said they need several more games yet to fully complete it...Jesus. If they had been cut short in the middle it'd be another Xenosaga situation. Just in terms of sheer scope, not visuals but the length of the individual games I shudder to think how grand they'll be next generation, the thought is becoming scary.

Erpy · Oct 13, 2019

Neoweee said:
Didn't Xseed say the same thing about CS2 though? This is still probably a better entry point than CS2 was, because it doesn't start during the middle of a plot arc.

I'm pretty sure they didn't. It's not like they needed to since CS1 was also published by them so they wouldn't risk any money by pushing people towards the first game in the arc.

Cqef · Oct 13, 2019

Erpy said:
I'm pretty sure they didn't. It's not like they needed to since CS1 was also published by them so they wouldn't risk any money by pushing people towards the first game in the arc.

Yeah they announced both releases at the same time, and XSeed mostly marketed the two games as one package, albeit CS2 was released only 8 months after CS1. Their PS3/Vita CS1 LE even had an artbook covering both games and the little box holding the pin was meant to be removed to put CS2's case in its place.

citrusred · Oct 13, 2019

Did TX do that badly? I never heard anything about its performance either way.

Lozange · Oct 13, 2019

citrusred said:
Did TX do that badly? I never heard anything about its performance either way.

In terms of western copies sold? It's true we haven't heard too much directly, but here's what we do know:
It's been part of a ton of sales on PC, some of which have been VERY generous (Base price is $60 on steam, it's been as low as $12. It came out December 2017, less than two years ago).
On Steamspy, it's placed in the 20,000 to 50,000 range.
There's not really much reason to assume that it's done well on vita for a variety of reasons.
I dunno how it's done on ps4? It might have done ok there.

But regardless, no news is probably at best mediocre news. And just generally you don't hear many people talking about it outside of niche circles? It's cool and interesting as a Falcom fan, but it has a variety of problems that make it hard to recommend over say, Trails, or Ys. Or even some other Falcom games.

lucancel · Oct 13, 2019

I am courious of one thing. The 2 characters only showed on the back are supposed to be of the next arc or sen 5/game which will explain untold mysteries of erebonian saga?

Deleted member 26768 · Oct 13, 2019

Lozange said:
In terms of western copies sold? It's true we haven't heard too much directly, but here's what we do know:
It's been part of a ton of sales on PC, some of which have been VERY generous (Base price is $60 on steam, it's been as low as $12. It came out December 2017, less than two years ago).
On Steamspy, it's placed in the 20,000 to 50,000 range.
There's not really much reason to assume that it's done well on vita for a variety of reasons.
I dunno how it's done on ps4? It might have done ok there.

But regardless, no news is probably at best mediocre news. And just generally you don't hear many people talking about it outside of niche circles? It's cool and interesting as a Falcom fan, but it has a variety of problems that make it hard to recommend over say, Trails, or Ys. Or even some other Falcom games.

until recently they still where trying to get rid of LE's so i think it is safe to say it definitely underperformed for them, not that it matters, with falcom's recent releases they'd never be able to compete with a company like NISA in bidding wars

lucancel said:
I am courious of one thing. The 2 characters only showed on the back are supposed to be of the next arc or sen 5/game which will explain untold mysteries of erebonian saga?

we'll know in december

Thuddert · Oct 13, 2019

Lozange said:
On Steamspy, it's placed in the 20,000 to 50,000 range.

Ranges like that is why we should stop using steamspy.

Orion · Oct 13, 2019

*replaying Tokyo Xanadu*

*stares longingly at in-game Sen III poster*

SOON.

Mivey · Oct 13, 2019

Thuddert said:
Ranges like that is why we should stop using steamspy.

And I wouldn't even trust those ranges. Ever since Valve switched profiles to private by default, SteamSpy has been fairly useless. It's current sampling is based on stuff like global achievement data, which you only get as percentages (it's trying to guess the denominator). That's a far cry from actually being able to do proper samples of large parts of the Steam community.

Lozange · Oct 13, 2019

I agree that ranges like that are pretty useless, but really there's not many other values to work with.
It has 572 steam reviews? That's a number which is equally flawed to extrapolate sales from.
Really though, the general point stands: if Tokyo Xanadu was a massive success, we would have heard about it.

TeenageFBI · Oct 13, 2019

Welp, just bought and installed Zero no Kiseki and I'm waiting for that Geofront patch. VARY EXCITED

Palette Swap · Oct 13, 2019

I'm replaying Cold Steel 2 for the first time since its release, and the "absentee father" hidden side quest is really funny when you've played The 3rd, Zero and Ao (which I hadn't the first time)
(Light Spoilers for all three and CS2 I guess)

They couldn't have spelled out more obviously is a Dominion. Which is something I knew from the wiki, but that wasn't as obvious ingame when I hadn't seen a Merkabah in action.

It's also funny how I remembered CS2 as a game with a weird pacing, particularly because it just wouldn't end. In retrospect, I find the very end of Act 1 and most of Act 2 really good, with some great (non-Rean) character moments. I'll see how the finale is on a subsequent playthrough.

PK Gaming · Oct 13, 2019

Palette Swap said:
It's also funny how I remembered CS2 as a game with a weird pacing, particularly because it just wouldn't end. In retrospect, I find the very end of Act 1 and most of Act 2 really good, with some great (non-Rean) character moments. I'll see how the finale is on a subsequent playthrough.

CS2 is a game that's significantly better on replay since you can anticipate the downtime.

I've also noticed that CS2 is a game that is significantly more confident than CS1.

Astraer · Oct 14, 2019

In the process of writing my review for Cold Steel III's embargo tomorrow. Really curious to see what the other reviewers thought of the game.

Mivey · Oct 14, 2019

Astraer said:
In the process of writing my review for Cold Steel III's embargo tomorrow. Really curious to see what the other reviewers thought of the game.

Did you manage to finish it, and if so, how does it compare with your playtime for CS II or CS I (assuming you played and finished any of those too)

Astraer · Oct 14, 2019

Mivey said:
Did you manage to finish it, and if so, how does it compare with your playtime for CS II or CS I (assuming you played and finished any of those too)

I clocked in at around 90 hours although I did make a lot of use of Turbo Mode, especially in regular battles and running around the fields. It's a little longer than CS II, especially if you talk to every NPC at every given moment, I didn't do nearly enough of that but will do on another playthrough.

atlans89 · Oct 14, 2019

Looking forward to your review. Just saw some dude on reddit got early copy from NIS EU too.

Deleted member 21255 · Oct 14, 2019

atlans89 said:
Looking forward to your review. Just saw some dude on reddit got early copy from NIS EU too.

NIS seems to have shipped them pretty early (tracking said it was sent on Friday), my one arrived earlier this afternoon.

Dragon1893 · Oct 14, 2019

Astraer said:
I clocked in at around 90 hours although I did make a lot of use of Turbo Mode, especially in regular battles and running around the fields. It's a little longer than CS II, especially if you talk to every NPC at every given moment, I didn't do nearly enough of that but will do on another playthrough.

90 hours while using turbo mode... This one is gonna take me a whole year to finish...

Yunyo · Oct 14, 2019

I'm not too interested in CS3 reviews because from a game reviewing standpoint I honestly don't see what a game reviewer could tell me that would interest me outside of maybe some personal takes on the story (which is not really reviewing; like if you told me that chapter 2 reminded you of your vacation to Hong Kong or something).

Technically the game has extremely few issues, combat system is what it's always been, presentation is sleek. Story is engaging.

What I'm trying to say to all the game reviewers lurking in this thread now is; surprise me, please.

Erpy · Oct 14, 2019

The main take-aways I gather most people are looking at regarding CS3 reviews are:
- How is the localization?
and
- How blatantly incorrect is the "CS3 is a fine place to start"-talking point?

lucancel · Oct 14, 2019

Is It that much longer? I recall both cs1 & 2 were shorter than 50 hours

Sandstar · Oct 14, 2019

lucancel said:
Is It that much longer? I recall both cs1 & 2 were shorter than 50 hours

I took about 70 hours each, but as noted before, I don't talk to every NPC, and I made use of the turbo button.

shimon · Oct 14, 2019

Erpy said:
- How blatantly incorrect is the "CS3 is a fine place to start"-talking point?

Very incorrect.

Deleted member 26768 · Oct 14, 2019

sleepless_swan said:
NIS seems to have shipped them pretty early (tracking said it was sent on Friday), my one arrived earlier this afternoon.

it depends on what country they have to ship it to

lucancel said:
Is It that much longer? I recall both cs1 & 2 were shorter than 50 hours

CS3 and 4 easily are double the length, rightfully so with 3

Mivey · Oct 14, 2019

shimon said:
Very incorrect.

I dunno, sounds like a failure of role playing on your end. Just imagine that Rean has a sudden case of amnesia, but is pretending that he still has his memory and just nods to everything (plus relying on his instinctual ability to hold
generic Anime speeches).

Dragon1893 · Oct 14, 2019

lucancel said:
Is It that much longer? I recall both cs1 & 2 were shorter than 50 hours

If you use turbo mode or focus just on the main plot.

Kromeo · Oct 14, 2019

I cleared 100 hours on CS1 without using the turbo at all, think CS 2 was closer to 70

Deleted member 4090 · Oct 14, 2019

Erpy said:
The main take-aways I gather most people are looking at regarding CS3 reviews are:
- How is the localization?
and
- How blatantly incorrect is the "CS3 is a fine place to start"-talking point?

I'm genuinely interested in the opinion of reviewers that are starting with CS3, but doing it "right". Sitting down for an hour or two going through the CS1 and CS2 summaries and the encyclopedia entries, taking notes, then taking notes while playing and going back to read entries as needed. I'd imagine it is super confusing when the game is introducing new characters vs. established characters due to how coy it plays with character introductions. The only way to know whether somebody is "new" is their lack of appearance in the encyclopedia.

You can tell in many scenes by whether they need an introduction to Rean, but scenes without him are going to be a mess, like the Ironblood scene in the demo that doesn't have name tags and doesn't have Rean.

Basileus777 · Oct 14, 2019

Neoweee said:
I'm genuinely interested in the opinion of reviewers that are starting with CS3, but doing it "right". Sitting down for an hour or two going through the CS1 and CS2 summaries and the encyclopedia entries, taking notes, then taking notes while playing and going back to read entries as needed. I'd imagine it is super confusing when the game is introducing new characters vs. established characters due to how coy it plays with character introductions. The only way to know whether somebody is "new" is their lack of appearance in the encyclopedia.

I doubt we getting reviews from people doing this.

Kilic95 · Oct 14, 2019

I'm also interested in knowing if most reviewers have done the optional side quests.

Side quests in these games really add a lot to the experience.

Niks · Oct 14, 2019

At what time does the review embargo lifts?

lucancel · Oct 14, 2019

Dragon1893 said:
If you use turbo mode or focus just on the main plot.

I played without turbo (on vita) and i did few but not all sidequests since i prefer not using walkthru Indeed.
Yet i feel so far the longest kiseki was ao, 57 hours to see the ending with some sidequests (not all).
I suppose cs3 Is as big as ao or greater.
This long the wait for cs4 will be really short given i play 1 or 2 hours a week on ps4

CrazyDude · Oct 14, 2019

CS1 took me 50 hours and CS2 took me around 70 hours. That is from doing all the side quests and talking to everyone.

Open Wound · Oct 14, 2019

CrazyDude said:
CS1 took me 50 hours and CS2 took me around 70 hours. That is from doing all the side quests and talking to everyone.

That doesn't sound right comparing with my own experience. I've done 3 full playthroughs (all sidequest, talking to every or almost every npc, catching all fish) of Cold Steel 1 and 2, and even with turbo mode and previous experience with the game I've never managed to finish the first game with less than 70+ hours. And Cold Steel 2 is significantly shorter than the first.

Naha- · Oct 14, 2019

90 hours? Oh boy, that sounds great. The longest JRPG i have played was P5 with 70 hours and I didn't finished it. CS1/CS2 was like 100+ hours each but with multiple playthroughs for the platinum.

atlans89 · Oct 14, 2019

I'm close to completionist and Ao took me 155 hours to complete, meanwhile my CS3's current progress so far is at 133 hour. It doesn't mean much since CS3 offer more things to do so I did detour a lot before going back to story. Respectively, if I remember right, CS1/2 each took me 80 hours.

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