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Knives Out | Spoiler Thread | Whodonut?

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,236

At min 2:08. Did this scene from a trailer got cut? (A knife flying outside the house)
It looks like the scene where she is about to climb the side of the house with a CGI knife added in. So yes and no, I guess
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,340
Wait, wasn't he several feet away when he slit his throat? She only opened the door and didn't really walk inside the room.
Blood spurts when you cut the carotid artery. The lesser the cut the stronger the pressure, the further the spurt. He was just starting to cut himself when she walked in.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,864
Yeaaaaaa, that’s a bunch of crap. Her being of ethnic decent (because even we don’t get clarity on that, pretty sure we got Ecuadorian, Peruvian and Brazilian comments from the entire family( de Armas is Cuban) inherently makes every move this movie makes political, especially when she’s stuck interacting with rich white assholes. This movie is steeped in political/socio-economical/racial interaction theater that you cannot escape it. You don’t get to make that plate gesture in a movie and it not mean what it means. This is a great whodonut but it is merely one layer of the donut within the donut holes donut of a movie about the politics of working for the wealthy, interacting with privilege when you have none and elder abuse, because even if Harlan wasn’t being physically assaulted by his family he was still be abused in other ways that are extremely apparent by the end.
 

foggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,997
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/27/opinion/knives-out-movie.html#click=https://t.co/nFI5jCKIpl

Adore Monica Castillo. I think this perspective is pretty interesting on the film.
It's a bit rambly and misses the mark sometimes, particularly her saying that the jokes about Latino homogeneity somehow reinforces it.

But I don't think she's too far off. Biggest issue on that front is that the character's defining characteristic is moral purity which comes off a bit condescending. She often feels anonymous in a comedy with other awful, but much more funny and charismatic people.

Her means of comeuppance are dictated by a white man's generosity and a white man's intelligence. Her big moments of plot-related agency are calling for an ambulance and tricking Ransom with the phone call. I just don't think it's enough. She does feel more hollow in the film than she should be.

I get why they made the character this way, but this is the side effect of making her so pure and innocent. She often feels like a prop, even when it's not in a scene played for social commentary.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,724
It's a bit rambly and misses the mark sometimes, particularly her saying that the jokes about Latino homogeneity somehow reinforces it.

But I don't think she's too far off. Biggest issue on that front is that the character's defining characteristic is moral purity which comes off a bit condescending. She often feels anonymous in a comedy with other awful, but much more funny and charismatic people.

Her means of comeuppance are dictated by a white man's generosity and a white man's intelligence. Her big moments of plot-related agency are calling for an ambulance and tricking Ransom with the phone call. I just don't think it's enough. She does feel more hollow in the film than she should be.

I get why they made the character this way, but this is the side effect of making her so pure and innocent. She often feels like a prop, even when it's not in a scene played for social commentary.
See I would agree with you if it wasn't for the call with Meg and the confrontation with Walt in the hallway. She's kind, and she's pure in that she isn't mean or cruel, but she also resists the family members trying to get her to be "nice" and give up the money, and she recognizes that she has the power now and can get what she wants
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,506
Yeaaaaaa, that’s a bunch of crap. Her being of ethnic decent (because even we don’t get clarity on that, pretty sure we got Ecuadorian, Peruvian and Brazilian comments from the entire family( de Armas is Cuban) inherently makes every move this movie makes political, especially when she’s stuck interacting with rich white assholes. This movie is steeped in political/socio-economical/racial interaction theater that you cannot escape it. You don’t get to make that plate gesture in a movie and it not mean what it means. This is a great whodonut but it is merely one layer of the donut within the donut holes donut of a movie about the politics of working for the wealthy, interacting with privilege when you have none and elder abuse, because even if Harlan wasn’t being physically assaulted by his family he was still be abused in other ways that are extremely apparent by the end.
I was pretty drunk when posting last night so I didn’t get my point across well lol. I agree with your post.

What I was trying to say is that the media I read before this came out really played up the alt-right/trumper angle specifically. Like every other article was about the alt-right teenager who doesn’t really have much of a role in the movie. I thought the movie was going to be more focused on conservative racism than it actually was.
 

foggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,997
See I would agree with you if it wasn't for the call with Meg and the confrontation with Walt in the hallway. She's kind, and she's pure in that she isn't mean or cruel, but she also resists the family members trying to get her to be "nice" and give up the money, and she recognizes that she has the power now and can get what she wants
Yeah, the power given to her from a white benefactor
 

NTGYK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,446
Ha, this was a great flick. The entire cast was sterling, and I particularly loved Craig and de Armas here. Both were refreshingly good, kind characters.

I'd love to see more Benoit Blanc and great whodunits in general.
 

TheXbox

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,672
It's a bit rambly and misses the mark sometimes, particularly her saying that the jokes about Latino homogeneity somehow reinforces it.

But I don't think she's too far off. Biggest issue on that front is that the character's defining characteristic is moral purity which comes off a bit condescending. She often feels anonymous in a comedy with other awful, but much more funny and charismatic people.

Her means of comeuppance are dictated by a white man's generosity and a white man's intelligence. Her big moments of plot-related agency are calling for an ambulance and tricking Ransom with the phone call. I just don't think it's enough. She does feel more hollow in the film than she should be.

I get why they made the character this way, but this is the side effect of making her so pure and innocent. She often feels like a prop, even when it's not in a scene played for social commentary.
This hits hard, although ultimately the de Armas character wins out because she's great at her job. She's the only one in the family who actually made something of herself.

Maybe the Plummer character is what's actually off. I can't believe this dude is such a paragon when his kids are so uniformly fucking trash. If money corrupted his children, he should be corrupted too. Or maybe inheritance is the corrupting force -- but I don't think Johnson believes that, because he himself has admitted that his wealthy grandfather bankrolled his first film.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,213
What I was trying to say is that the media I read before this came out really played up the alt-right/trumper angle specifically. Like every other article was about the alt-right teenager who doesn’t really have much of a role in the movie. I thought the movie was going to be more focused on conservative racism than it actually was.
Guaranteed this was done for clicks. It's just like the Joker "alt-right" narrative people claimed the film was pushing before it even came out.

OT: Movie was great. Taking a deep dive into it, I can see how the film was playing around with the idea of earned vs. inherited wealth & success. There is lots of little nods to current topics (Jamie Lee Curtis' "I built my company from the ground up... with a million dollar loan." A line people echo about Trump.) The film also does a good job showing how the younger generation is more detached / less entitled to the wealth of their ancestors.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,340
This hits hard, although ultimately the de Armas character wins out because she's great at her job. She's the only one in the family who actually made something of herself.

Maybe the Plummer character is what's actually off. I can't believe this dude is such a paragon when his kids are so uniformly fucking trash. If money corrupted his children, he should be corrupted too. Or maybe inheritance is the corrupting force -- but I don't think Johnson believes that, because he himself has admitted that his wealthy grandfather bankrolled his first film.
There's a difference between earning money and inheriting money. There's also a difference between knowing you got where you are because someone gave you a leg up at the start and declaring yourself entirely self made when you only got out of the gate because someone gave you the means.
 

Zaiven

Member
Nov 12, 2019
37
Hahaha. It’s the generational term for the generation after millennials. Aka gen z. The 14yo son of Harlan’s son is what that’s referring to.
Ah, okay. I knew that group was called Gen Z, and I think I may have heard the term zoomer once or twice before too. I just was thinking it was some new pejorative internet slang word I was gonna have to familiarize myself with.
Overall it was good, although I was really uninvested for about 20 minutes after the first reveal.

I found Harlan's plan to maintain Marta's innocence all sorts of convoluted insanity.

At first, it was interesting to have a mystery writer telling someone how to cover up a "murder," but the plan involves like 6 steps (one of which is climbing to the third floor on an exterior trellis), and she's just a nurse. If she gets one thing wrong, it's gonna raise some serious suspicions with detectives, and given how famous he is, I don't think they will be average-intelligence detectives. He also doesn't consider the whole toxicology angle. With a suicide that comes out of nowhere, the family will definitely want a report done, and that's gonna reveal the morphine. Harlan's plan also involves Marta hiding the truth from detectives, but Harlan also should know how detectives work. Marta can omit truth all she wants, but if they ask her one point blank question, she'll have to lie. Which would be fine if she didn't admit the puking/lying connection, but she does. Just say it's a ridiculous idea and that you're feeling ill that day, done.

It seems like he could have done any number of other things, like maybe write a suicide note explaining that he overdosed himself while Marta was downstairs talking to someone, or something to that effect. But then I guess there wouldn't be a movie.
I kinda agree, which is why I thought for a while that the whole thing was being engineered by Harlan himself as some kind of final Xanatos Gambit masterpiece of a mystery plot, or something. But I think his plan was to make Marta a logistical impossibility, to the point where she would never even come under suspicion. And Marta did worry about getting something wrong--heck, she did get several things wrong, most notably forgetting where to pull off the road in order to avoid the surveillance camera--and Harlan had to calm her down and keep her focused on what he was saying. And Harlan also said that he was sure he was forgetting something, but he was confident Marta could handle whatever it might be he was forgetting.

But the toxicology report--yeah, I don't know how Harlan overlooked that (unless that was the thing he said he was forgetting). I guess he was hoping that his manner of death would be such an obvious suicide-by-slit-throat that there wouldn't even be a toxicology report.
I was pretty drunk when posting last night so I didn’t get my point across well lol. I agree with your post.

What I was trying to say is that the media I read before this came out really played up the alt-right/trumper angle specifically. Like every other article was about the alt-right teenager who doesn’t really have much of a role in the movie. I thought the movie was going to be more focused on conservative racism than it actually was.
Yeah, this is why I've said a few times that I hope people don't just zoom in on that one aspect or that one character because it tickles them personally. That's a very, very superficial read of the movie. There's a lot more to it than that, and not all of it is aimed at the "alt-right."
This hits hard, although ultimately the de Armas character wins out because she's great at her job. She's the only one in the family who actually made something of herself.

Maybe the Plummer character is what's actually off. I can't believe this dude is such a paragon when his kids are so uniformly fucking trash. If money corrupted his children, he should be corrupted too. Or maybe inheritance is the corrupting force -- but I don't think Johnson believes that, because he himself has admitted that his wealthy grandfather bankrolled his first film.
My guess is that he probably was corrupted, but that time, old age, self-reflection, the awareness of his own mortality and impending death, and possibly his interaction with Marta in recent years have softened him. If we had seen Harlan when he was in his 60s, say, he'd probably be just as bad as the others, if not more.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
Banned
May 8, 2019
1,881
Honestly fuck Harlan too. Raising them to be tit-suckers and then expecting them to be self sufficient on there own? Is he serious? That whole family was dependent on you by YOUR design and now you want them to be self reliant out of the blue?
Out of the blue ? what in the world lol

He tried being a father to everyone and acted out of good will with VERY clears boundaries, which ALL got violated by every single person bare Marta. He changed his testament after he had enough with people's bs, which ultimately culminated with Ransom. Its absolutely not out of the blue since he had 1 on 1 all day long before his birthday party, he just was cleaning house as a birthday gift to himself
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,877
As a disclaimer I really liked the movie and I'll post my thoughts later, but I don't think there was a particularly strong anti alt-right/pro immigration message. The message never went further than basic insults against trumpers and alt-right zoomers.
A massive theme of this movie is how, when it comes to wealthy white people, class and race trump personal politics when personal wealth is on the line.

Making the talented Latina immigrant the actual villain instead of the true heir to the patriarch's fortune (having been the one to actually connect with him on a human level as his caregiver) would completely undercut that.
 

SenseiX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
Saw it two days ago with my mother and we enjoyed it a lot. Really liked the cause and effect of throwing the baseball out of the window. Hopefully monsieur Benoit Blanc won't be a one time thing.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,224
Arizona
I just loved this movie and it's an easy contender for one of the best of the year. I do have a couple of problem: when they got to the laundromat scene, Marta finds Fran, and I'm wondering "Who the heck is Fran?" I had to look her up after the movie, and remembered she found Harlan's body in the beginning, but I don't remember seeing her between those scenes. Also, while Marta is focused on for the second half, the rest of the family mostly vanishes.

And now I want donut holes.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,883
We just saw this last night and thought it was fantastic. Did not expect the whole thing to be a metaphor for immigration
 

Busaiku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,332
I just loved this movie and it's an easy contender for one of the best of the year. I do have a couple of problem: when they got to the laundromat scene, Marta finds Fran, and I'm wondering "Who the heck is Fran?" I had to look her up after the movie, and remembered she found Harlan's body in the beginning, but I don't remember seeing her between those scenes. Also, while Marta is focused on for the second half, the rest of the family mostly vanishes.

And now I want donut holes.
She was a minor character, but she was at the Memorial party.
She showed Marta and the granddaughter (can't remember her name) where the weed was, and told Marta about that Hallmark movie.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,224
Arizona
She was a minor character, but she was at the Memorial party.
She showed Marta and the granddaughter (can't remember her name) where the weed was, and told Marta about that Hallmark movie.
The granddaughter's name was Meg. That's another thing I liked: how they introduced the characters. That made them stick into my mind, unlike some movies where i could tell you the names of maybe one or two characters.
 

vulva

Member
Oct 25, 2017
825
It was a fun watch but it being so plot heavy I can't imagine a second watch would be at all enjoyable. Fun ride though
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
3,097
Try out The Thin Man from the 1930s. It and it’s sequel we’re very fun.
I LOVE Nick and Nora. Couple goals for sure.

As for the movie itself, Craig, Evan's and Armas were the acting highlights for such. I wish the others had more to do though. I can't help but compare it to Ready or Not. Those three acted better in Knives Out, but the acting level was more even in Ready or Not.

And yeah... I agree with foggy to an extent. It doesn't help that we don't know what she does with the newfound inheritance.

Otherwise it's a solid whodunnit even though I figured out who did it midway to the film.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,378
I clocked Evans’ involvement with the dogs barking during the night not being explained and then immediately barking at him, and the antidote being missing as well as the will on goings.

Didn’t put two and two or all the pieces together about swapped medications and what not so the ending still gave me some catharsis explaining how “everything” fit into place.

Even if the mystery wasn’t a complete twist, or expertly buried, I enjoyed the moment to moment content of the film immensely.
As soon as Ransom became a side character I was like "yeah he did it". That's my dumb writer brain thinking ahead to what would make sense for the plot instead of just enjoying it.

Also, they almost got me with the red herring of Richards' baseball. One of the lieutenants had a baseball tie on, so I was like "ooo maybe thats a hint?"

edit, I also thought the movie thought it was being more clever than it actually was with its cinematography. Like when they were interviewing Marta and she was the only person who was framed in the center of the circle of knives. When I can figure out what you're trying to say, you're saying it pretty loud.

Overall, really enjoyed it. Fun movie.
I both called it and didn't call it.

Not too long into the movie I called that she was responsible for the dude's death but I didn't call every twist that came after it, including the twist that I was wrong. When it showed that she was responsible i thought the rest of the movie was gonna be her trying to cover her tracks from Daniel Craig. Thought Ransom was too obvious but I guess I overthought it, though I knew the old woman was gonna pin it on him anyway. This was probably the best Clue since Clue, especially those credits. That credits art screamed Clue.

Loved the family. They reminded me a bit of the family in Ready or Not in that they were all a bunch of rich assholes but some of them were a lot less of assholes than others, but when push came to shove between them and the money they weren't afraid to step over that line and turn full heel. Most notable case is Linda who was pretty fond of Marta going straight to "YOU BITCH!" when she finds out that she got left everything. Also appreciate that the patriarch of the family was a legit good guy who did his best to help her out. Also lol at the alt right kid. They nailed that archetype perfectly.

Overall I thought it was a great movie with amazing cinematography, nice little background easter eggs and callbacks (The "My House, My Rules, My Coffee" mug being passed from the patriarch to Marta when she wins the game by playing by her rules, him telling her that they "wouldn't know a real knife from a prop", the centering of the knives on Daniel Craig as his head fills the center of the knife "donut" the shot at the end where she's now above them all, Chris Evans being called 'Ransom', etc.)
Daniel Craig mentions dogs being a great judge of character, before we see them warmly great Marta, warmly greet Linda, and then bark at Ransom. That was my tip off he was behind whatever was happening, but I loved how well they paced the subsequent twists and turns.

Great film, a lot of little details to appreciate on subsequent watches.
I love seeing how people interpreted the film while they were watching and how different it was than I did. Reactions after a mystery film can be as entertaining for me as the movie since I'll think, "Shit, I missed that! How'd he/she notice the first time?!"

“The Last Jedi” of murder-mystery movies.

Like TLJ, KO seems to exist to subvert tropes of it’s genre. But the movie wasn’t as smart as it thought it was. Seemingly the lack of a twist was the major twist. A suicide remained a suicide. Chris Evans entered the movie as the likeliest suspect of the “murder” and it pretty much ran a straight line back to him by the end.

Personal opinion but the lack of surprise should not be the surprise.

Maybe a better “twist = no twist” would have been the closing shot of Marta drinking from the “My house. My coffee. My rules.” mug and then she giving a subtle smile before cutting to credits. The realization that Marta was in fact the “murderer”. And the murder weapon? The family’s greed.

The movies continually establishes that the family kept fucking themselves over and then further by attempting to amend with greed. And Marta is the innocent girl who accidentally “kills” and then spends the movie trying to lie and obstruct the truth. That then she would be revealed to have used the family’s greed as a tool to con them out of their own fortune and fool the maybe-not-as-good-as-he-thinks-he-is legendary detective with her “good heart”.

IDK feels like Marta actually being the bad guy would have worked better to subvert murder-mystery tropes than pretty much knowing the whole story in the first 20-30 mins and then waiting for the movie to get there.
I also find this to be TLJ of murder mysteries seeing as it's GOAT material.

Okay, that out of the way =P, Marta doing it wouldn't have made sense with the flashbacks she had and her guilt throughout the movie about it. It also wouldn't really subvert a trope? I suspected her early because she seemed least likely to do it seeing as she's "pure" and has nothing to gain, which follows the "person you'd least suspect is the murderer" trope. It's the person the detective "trusts." It actually surprised me that they showed she did it and she ended up really being pure because those people nearly always end up being the murderers.
 
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Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,994
I also find this to be TLJ of murder mysteries seeing as it's GOAT material.

Okay, that out of the way =P, Marta doing it wouldn't have made sense with the flashbacks she had and her guilt throughout the movie about it. It also wouldn't really subvert a trope? I suspected her early because she seemed least likely to do it seeing as she's "pure" and has nothing to gain, which follows the "person you'd least suspect is the murderer" trope. It's the person the detective "trusts." It actually surprised me that they showed she did it and she ended up really being pure because those people nearly always end up being the murderers.
The pure protagonist doing it is pretty common among horror and suspense. All the Saws, Cry Wolf, Happy Death Day, Sleepaway Camp, etc
 

Jims

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,357
This was really good. You really can see the Agatha Christie influence all over this film, not just in the dysfunctional family and surprise will inheritance setup, but in the plot mechanisms themselves. The mechanics involved with the medicine switching and the blackmail murder were very much in her wheelhouse. The details of the unexplained dogs barking and Nana's clue are pretty slick in how they are presented. Especially Nana's line, love that sort of clue, where they brazenly have the unreliable character give us the solution. Agatha Christie always said that you don't really have to hide your clues, because the reader will inevitably interpret it the wrong way anyway.

I think they could have reorganized the film to make it a little less obvious Ransom did it. Just from a narrative sense, I think a lot of people would be able to figure out he probably did it, even if they couldn't pinpoint exactly why.

I don't think it's really a problem with the film, though. I really enjoy it in a meta sense where we're so stuck in Marta's shoes, trying to play the detectives in the first half, and then Ransom trying to play her in the second. Like, all of that stuff is amazing. I'm questioning if there is a way where we can still have that meta-journey with Marta, and have a truly shocking reveal in the end. I suppose, if you moved some of the Linda and Walt stuff to the second half, it would have probably felt like red herrings for the sake of red herrings. They were probably smart to tell a tighter, more focused story in the second half.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
8,737
Out of the blue ? what in the world lol

He tried being a father to everyone and acted out of good will with VERY clears boundaries, which ALL got violated by every single person bare Marta. He changed his testament after he had enough with people's bs, which ultimately culminated with Ransom. Its absolutely not out of the blue since he had 1 on 1 all day long before his birthday party, he just was cleaning house as a birthday gift to himself
Harlan was a horrible father, they were terrible people but they didn't get there on their own. His parenting hurt them all, and was a contributing factor in how they ended up in life. His ideals weren't up front, he was a cold and distant figure who moved them around on his whims and of course they'd do what he says: he's the patriarch of the family with all the power. Marta deserved the inheritance, and was a good person but that was because she was raised in a good family not because of Harlan. It's not like he was interested in raising his family like Marta's was.
 

admataY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,184
In the future, if i will want to explain to people the power of a good " show, dont tell" cinematic moment, im gonna use a gif of Don Johnosn character trying to pass his empty plate to Marta, who is a qualified nurse and decidedly not a maid .
This little gesture, which in this thread i learned was improvised , tell you so much about his character but also about how the family really see her beyond superficial politeness . Brilliant stuff.
For a movie that is not super long, it sure is a fairly rich text , with alot of little details suddenly fall into place in retrospective .
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,378
The pure protagonist doing it is pretty common among horror and suspense. All the Saws, Cry Wolf, Happy Death Day, Sleepaway Camp, etc
Yup.

Also, fuck me, the only reason you and a bunch of others were tagged is because I thought it was cool to read how people processed the movie differently than me, lmao.

I dunno, I just watched Death On The Nile (1978) for the first time having never seen or read any Agatha Christie except for Murder On The Orient Express (1974), which I had just watched the day before.

I had the whole thing figured out about 40 minutes in, when Simon gets shot in the leg, and that movie is 2hr20min.

I still enjoyed it and it's one of the most beloved films of the Who Dunit genre. In fact, it was fun picking out Rian Johnson's references, like the piano.
The book Death on the Nile is quite long, and I figured it out at the same time. It's one of the only Christie books for which I can say that, lol.

The book actually does a better job letting you know that something else is amiss after he's shot in the leg.

A couple small things I noticed on my second watch that I missed on the first watch: When Linda is recalling the memory of the birthday cake being lowered in front of her father, she and her husband are the ones behind him, smiling. But when Walt is recalling the same memory he is imagining himself and his wife and son behind Harlan, smiling.
Something felt off about that, and I thought that I'd probably see a different placement of the family if I watched it a second time. At the time, I thought that it possibly could have to do with who the murderer was, but it was just this rich family being full of shit, lol.

This is basically an Ace Attorney movie without Phoenix Wright I love it.

I feel like we were missing one last gotcha though. Chris Evans as the bad guy sounded way too obvious (though he's super compelling) and I would've loved to see something bigger like the whole family was in on it or something. Still the characters and performances were spot on and I wish more screenwriters wrote in alt-right assholes just so the other characters can dunk on them.
There's an Agatha Christie book that's like that (y'all know it if you read it), and so I had that thought it my mind but later disregarded it. The family was too pulled apart, even in private.
 
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Oct 2, 2018
2,783
It was alright. Not too exciting and the initial round of interviews felt plodding. This is all very low stakes.

Not sure why this is reviewing so well. It's okay but sorta dull all at once. The biggest problem? Even with the reveal; it wasn't THAT exciting. And there's something really offputting re: the most awful member of the family being the killer.

Oh shock!

6.5/10ish
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,024
It was alright. Not too exciting and the initial round of interviews felt plodding. This is all very low stakes.

Not sure why this is reviewing so well. It's okay but sorta dull all at once. The biggest problem? Even with the reveal; it wasn't THAT exciting. And there's something really offputting re: the most awful member of the family being the killer.

Oh shock!

6.5/10ish
What’s shocking is that anyone could find this movie dull 😐 It was the most energetic, brisk, and lively movie I’ve seen in some time.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,734
It was alright. Not too exciting and the initial round of interviews felt plodding. This is all very low stakes.

Not sure why this is reviewing so well. It's okay but sorta dull all at once. The biggest problem? Even with the reveal; it wasn't THAT exciting. And there's something really offputting re: the most awful member of the family being the killer.

Oh shock!

6.5/10ish
Ransom isn't the most awful, they're all two faced garbage people, only Fran and Marta are good people
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,211
Honestly fuck Harlan too. Raising them to be tit-suckers and then expecting them to be self sufficient on there own? Is he serious? That whole family was dependent on you by YOUR design and now you want them to be self reliant out of the blue?
Wasnt that out of the blue, he cut off Chris Evans from his will but never mentioned he would stop supporting him any time soon.
Also the final tuition check was certainly over the usual 200k meg and her mom had been getting.
One thing I think I missed: what was Harlan's beef with Linda (Jamie Lee Curtis)? Like, her husband was cheating, and her son was evil (moreso than anyone realized), and her company wasn't entirely self-made vis a vis the million dollar loan, but at the end of the day she herself hadn't really fucked up, had she? She'd been the most independently successful of all his kids. Did I miss something Ransom said about her company?

Obviously after the shit hit the fan she joined in (slash lead) the family in ganging up on Marta, but I figured there had to be a reason she was taken out of the will, right?
I feel like he didn't have a beff with her.He just trusted she wouldn’t need the inheritance. She was probably the best of the bunch and only snapped because
a) she thought the Marta coerced/had sex with her father.
b)she felt entitled to her father’s fortune.
 
Oct 2, 2018
2,783
Ransom isn't the most awful, they're all two faced garbage people, only Fran and Marta are good people
well, it’s all superficial and of course they’ll all act that way if they stand to lose their inheritance.It’s notl like zod didn’t have ambition to do more with the literary works of his father or that Jamie lee wasn’t self made.She certainly wasnt a garbage person.

anyhow, I expected more outta this movie and for large tracts of it.. it was just okay.A lot of this cast aren’t even used In any shape or fashion that befitted their involvement in the plot. Honestly, it just seemed a waste. Toni Colette wasted, Jamie lee wasted. Etc etc.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
Banned
May 8, 2019
1,881
Harlan was a horrible father, they were terrible people but they didn't get there on their own. His parenting hurt them all, and was a contributing factor in how they ended up in life. His ideals weren't up front, he was a cold and distant figure who moved them around on his whims and of course they'd do what he says: he's the patriarch of the family with all the power. Marta deserved the inheritance, and was a good person but that was because she was raised in a good family not because of Harlan. It's not like he was interested in raising his family like Marta's was.
A horrible and cold father ?

Like how could you even know, he took the time to detach from his own family. He's clearly not depicted as a horrible guy in the movie, rather than someone who misjudged the bonds going within it and decided to take a deeper dive for his birthday, when all the family was gathered

He also took a stand for his daughter, asking the husband to tell he was cheating on her or he would. That's far from being horrible, hes not responsible for how people act after he makes an act of generosity toward them. He didn't even HAVE to be generous in the first place. Greed and stupidity was what he couldn't control about them. You don't control your child / your family

Also lol at the "they didn't make it on their own", of course you don't, there's always someone to look upon. Rarely people make it entirely by themselves

Every single family member was relying on his good will and support to do something and it has nothing to do with his parenting, period
 
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Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,994
Harlan was a horrible father, they were terrible people but they didn't get there on their own. His parenting hurt them all, and was a contributing factor in how they ended up in life. His ideals weren't up front, he was a cold and distant figure who moved them around on his whims and of course they'd do what he says: he's the patriarch of the family with all the power. Marta deserved the inheritance, and was a good person but that was because she was raised in a good family not because of Harlan. It's not like he was interested in raising his family like Marta's was.
I got the impression that Harlan was a great father, but he felt that he spoiled his kids and held them back with the amount of dependence that they had on him and his fortune. He, however, relied on Marta for company and she never asked him for anything, which is why he left all his stuff to her.

Linda and Walt were the only two who were ACTUALLY his kids and they were probably the least awful along with Meg. Linda refused to shit talk Walt and Walt is just kinda passive. Neither of them were shown to be any kind of awful until they found out that their money, house, and possessions were all going to Marta. Before that they were gonna help her out with whatever. That said, they themselves were kinda shitty parents based on how Ransom and Jacob turned out.

I don't think Harlan would've left Meg out to dry. He knew she and Marta were friends and Marta would probably help her with college tuition.
 
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RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Great movie, can't wait to see it again to see all the pieces set up. Despite seeing the entire plan, and Harlan slitting his own throat I kept thinking "He's alive somehow!" until close to the end. Played myself lol

A lot of great gags with the family being pos. Multiple members telling Marta "I wish you could've been at the funeral but they were against me" and them constantly messing up her nationality.
 

Ottaro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
973
Great movie, can't wait to see it again to see all the pieces set up. Despite seeing the entire plan, and Harlan slitting his own throat I kept thinking "He's alive somehow!" until close to the end. Played myself lol
Pretty great set-up having him be a famous mystery novel writer. Makes it real easy to convince yourself early on that this is all an elaborate plan or magic trick by him.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
8,737
A horrible and cold father ?

Like how could you even know, he took the time to detach from his own family. He's clearly not depicted as a horrible guy in the movie, rather than someone who misjudged the bonds going within it and decided to take a deeper dive for his birthday, when all the family was gathered

He also took a stand for his daughter, asking the husband to tell he was cheating on her or he would. That's far from being horrible, hes not responsible for how people act after he makes an act of generosity toward them. He didn't even HAVE to be generous in the first place. Greed and stupidity was what he couldn't control about them. You don't control your child / your family

Also lol at the "they didn't make it on their own", of course you don't, there's always someone to look upon. Rarely people make it entirely by themselves

Every single family member was relying on his good will and support to do something and it has nothing to do with his parenting, period
Yeah.

The movie did not frame him in a good light, while everyone in his family was an asshole to one degree or another so was he. It was either Walt, Richard and/or Linda who bought up how he was a difficult man to get through to, he wasn't shown to be a great father in any of their lives - more like a king with servants who did what he "asked" or they risked getting finally abandoned. There was no nuance with Harlan, and he took no means of providing the lessons or bridges of safety to truly being financially independent - it was up to them to figure out on their own, he wasn't going to lift a finger to help them transition like that despite this supposedly being what he wanted them to do. He encouraged and supported them taking his money to better their lives and didn't really tell them he wanted them to be independent of him when he was alive.


Defending Linda was a great moment, except that was very rare when it came to his family - Marta got all the scenes where he was a nice guy, the rest got an aloof asshole who didn't explain anything, abused the power imbalance and refused to have deeper conversations about their valid concerns with how he affected their lives. Look at how he went about that, too, rather than simply telling her he kept that secret and wrote it down on a piece of paper that had invisible ink on it. Which delayed things far longer than it had to and left to chance she might not have discovered it, period. Communicating wasn't Harlan's strong suit, unless you're Marta. He was capable of being a loving and understanding father figure, but only Marta got that his family didn't and we don't know what she had to do to gain that trust. I don't remember him being that friendly with the nicest family member, Meg, that much and her financial security relied solely on Marta while he left her nothing. We don't know why Marta got through to Harlan while Meg didn't.

He never bothered to help them truly be independent, he was a sink or swim type of mentor and with that binary mindset how he presided over his fortune with his family was that they either had everything or they had nothing. Look at how he dealt with Walt, rather than listening to their concerns about licensing rights he booted him under the pretence that he should do something else without the slightest concern that his son dedicated decades of his life to that role and was unprepared for the sudden unemployment. Harlan didn't share any remote concern for any of the people he cut off, some deserve it better than others, just that they were cut off.

I got the impression that Harlan was a great father, but he felt that he spoiled his kids and held them back with the amount of dependence that they had on him and his fortune. He, however, relied on Marta for company and she never asked him for anything, which is why he left all his stuff to her.

Linda and Walt were the only two who were ACTUALLY his kids and they were probably the least awful along with Meg. Linda refused to shit talk Walt and Walt is just kinda passive. Neither of them were shown to be any kind of awful until they found out that their money, house, and possessions were all going to Marta. Before that they were gonna help her out with whatever. That said, they themselves were kinda shitty parents based on how Ransom and Jacob turned out.

I don't think Harlan would've left Meg out to dry. He knew she and Marta were friends and Marta would probably help her with college tuition.
This is where Harlan's ideas of what he wanted to be like get murky, both Linda and Meg did as he asked and got nothing for it. Of course they'd be bothered by that as they were the only family member that truly got close to what he wanted and he didn't leave them a single shred of inheritance. I've got no problem with Marta inheriting it but there didn't seem to be a path for any of his family to getting that inheritance and with Harlan being a zero sum guy it was all or nothing, rather than dividing everything between the three women.

Except Harlan did exactly that, like with himself Meg's future is tied to being friendly with Marta - she isn't financially independent, which her inheritance would have given her so she has to rely on Marta until she can make herself independent and her family are in no condition to help her if she can't rely on Marta.
 

foggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,997
She worked hard to become a really good nurse, she was doing fine without the white benefactor. Whereas the other Thrombey's got all of their power/money/influence from their rich father.
I'm speaking to her lack of agency in the comeuppance of the family that viewed and treated her so poorly
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,831

I have thought about this too.

Rian living rent free in dipshit’s heads has propelled Rian.

He, while not on purpose, has this provocative mythology to him that makes his films into an event.