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Knives Out | Spoiler Thread | Whodonut?

GenericBadGuy

GenericBadGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,344
My wife and I have been reading a lot of Agatha Christie recently and we absolutely loved the movie. We liked how it goofed on Hercule Poirot (Daniel Craig had a lot of fun with this - that donut speech was hilarious) and some of the mystery tropes while still ending up being a great "Agatha Christie Mystery" in itself.

Overall a very fun movie. At first we thought it would just play on the formula by having her erase her tracks like the patriarch wanted, but then after the blood lab burned down we sort of just looked at each other like "WTF is going on?"

I agree about how nasty it felt seeing this family that supposedly loved Marta try to backstab her one by one. Ana de Armas (spelling?) was great. I know she's supposed to be in the next bond but those films aren't typically...kind to women.
 
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Sean C.

Sean C.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,722
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island
I don't think Harlan was a great father, but I don't think he was a terrible one either, based on what we're shown. The personality/attitude differences between him and his descendants reflect that he was a self-made man and his children and grandchildren were born into wealth and became extremely entitled as a result of that station, in ways that he felt merited not bequeathing them his estate.

Also, it bears noting, the effects of his actions to push them toward greater independence were in some cases especially severe because Harlan was clearly not planning to die when he did, so, for instance, ousting Walt from his job running the publishing business would in theory have allowed some time for the old man to see how he made out in whatever else he pursued (it seemed like he thought Walt could be an author himself, based on one of his comments?).
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
It was a good deal of fun, Rian Johnson is definitely putting together a pretty strong filmography and he's going to have his pick of any studio project he wants to do and top actors to work with.
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Uncle Squingis said:
Overall it was good, although I was really uninvested for about 20 minutes after the first reveal.

I found Harlan's plan to maintain Marta's innocence all sorts of convoluted insanity.

At first, it was interesting to have a mystery writer telling someone how to cover up a "murder," but the plan involves like 6 steps (one of which is climbing to the third floor on an exterior trellis), and she's just a nurse. If she gets one thing wrong, it's gonna raise some serious suspicions with detectives, and given how famous he is, I don't think they will be average-intelligence detectives. He also doesn't consider the whole toxicology angle. With a suicide that comes out of nowhere, the family will definitely want a report done, and that's gonna reveal the morphine. Harlan's plan also involves Marta hiding the truth from detectives, but Harlan also should know how detectives work. Marta can omit truth all she wants, but if they ask her one point blank question, she'll have to lie. Which would be fine if she didn't admit the puking/lying connection, but she does. Just say it's a ridiculous idea and that you're feeling ill that day, done.

It seems like he could have done any number of other things, like maybe write a suicide note explaining that he overdosed himself while Marta was downstairs talking to someone, or something to that effect. But then I guess there wouldn't be a movie.
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Yeah that was the only kinda nit picky thing I would say ... the blood toxicology would be the first thing the family would want.

I'm pretty basic on this stuff though I thought for about the first half of the movie that Harlan had faked his death.
 
Mass_Pincup

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,121
Uncle Squingis said:
Overall it was good, although I was really uninvested for about 20 minutes after the first reveal.

I found Harlan's plan to maintain Marta's innocence all sorts of convoluted insanity.

At first, it was interesting to have a mystery writer telling someone how to cover up a "murder," but the plan involves like 6 steps (one of which is climbing to the third floor on an exterior trellis), and she's just a nurse. If she gets one thing wrong, it's gonna raise some serious suspicions with detectives, and given how famous he is, I don't think they will be average-intelligence detectives. He also doesn't consider the whole toxicology angle. With a suicide that comes out of nowhere, the family will definitely want a report done, and that's gonna reveal the morphine. Harlan's plan also involves Marta hiding the truth from detectives, but Harlan also should know how detectives work. Marta can omit truth all she wants, but if they ask her one point blank question, she'll have to lie. Which would be fine if she didn't admit the puking/lying connection, but she does. Just say it's a ridiculous idea and that you're feeling ill that day, done.

It seems like he could have done any number of other things, like maybe write a suicide note explaining that he overdosed himself while Marta was downstairs talking to someone, or something to that effect. But then I guess there wouldn't be a movie.
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Yeah I liked it, but all of this was why I initially thought that Harlan trying to fake his death would've make more sense.
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,773
I loved Craig's character, and I also love the idea of this becoming an anthology series where he consults on various crimes.

Actually two long time franchise actors in this, Craig and Evans, and you can tell they were both just thrilled to be doing anything that wasn't Bond or Cap.
 
Ichthyosaurus

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Stabbie said:
Sorry man you absolutely didn't understand the character nor the movie entirely
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I rewatched the movie today, and didn't change my opinion. It's a character piece built on unreliable narrators, all we have is Marta's side that he's a good person and while that may be true in her circumstances we aren't given any proof that this is what he's like outside their viewpoint or a definitive characterisation to base his actions on outside of personal events from characters that react to him on screen and once he's died. His reputation as an author and with the public is a blank slate, the one person who's a fan of his works, the trooper, completely ignores him as a person. The only framing we get from the fan is someone obsessed with he writes his mysteries which tells us nothing of what type of person he is other than he's a weird guy because he's a famous mystery writer so typical quirkiness.

Linda was the person who explained how hard it was to communicate with their father: she told the police that he was difficult communicator and that the only path to "get" him on your wavelength was to "play his game by his rules." This isn't proven to be false in the narrative, and was reinforced when the people who did connect with him literally played Go with him that he liked, Ransom and Marta for example. One scene had him admitting to Marta that he should have been a better father with his family, like helping Walt become an author himself, and it was shown with regret as this was something he should have done, only to be undermined when he left every single family member out to dry because they didn't adhere to his demands that he never actually taught them how to be independent. The only reason I can think of of him leaving Meg out in the cold was because her mother was stealing money from him, unless he hates young adults going to college, because most of the time to him she was a non entity.

You're going to do have to give me more than a "you don't understand" counter argument to give me something compelling to chew on. I'd appreciate it to know exactly what you think I'm wrong about.
 
DassoBrother

DassoBrother

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,621
Saskatchewan
I really enjoyed this movie but the "weak sauce" lines just popped into my head again today. I fear it'll be the thing that sticks in my brain past the rest.
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Piggybacking off Ichty - it becomes clear in the closing moments (and crystalizes the context of a lot of things earlier in the movie) that Harlan absolutely adored Linda (JLC's character), and that he cuts the others off in hopes that they'll learn to be as self-sufficient as she is. The rest of his kids and grandkids were turning out pretty rotten, Meg included.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,215
Ichthyosaurus said:
Look at how he went about that, too, rather than simply telling her he kept that secret and wrote it down on a piece of paper that had invisible ink on it. Which delayed things far longer than it had to and left to chance she might not have discovered it, period.
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I disagree with this part. It's quite clear that he intended for her to find out no matter what. It's only because he died that it didn't come out right away, and he certainly didn't anticipate that.
 
TheGreatDirector

TheGreatDirector

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,031
What a phenomenal film. Funny and witty as hell.

Ana de Armas was such a compelling protagonist to root for and Craig chewing the scenery was a sight to behold. Even though I had heard about it. I didn't expect how hard this filmed went into the fuck MAGA support lane and that only made the ending all the better. I'd love to see what a franchise could do in this universe.
 
hydruxo

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,395
Man, I absolutely loved this. I saw Jojo Rabbit last week and was convinced that was my favorite movie of the year so far but this topped it. Definitely the most fun I've had seeing a movie in theaters, and the writing was so tight. So much foreshadowing that dawned on me as the movie went on and after I left.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Ana de Armas ending up as the lead more or less, I thought she'd be relegated to being a side character. That final shot of her with the mug is going to be iconic.
 
Kain-Nosgoth

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,517
Switzerland
Nice movie, i thought at first that harlan and ransom were both in on it and that he planned the suicide from the start... And it was all a trick to show if marta was truly worthy of the heritage, and second to show everyone how all his family was trash

the fact that ransom was an actual murderer was a bit more boring to me, but the whole mystery was great
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I thought it was good until the end. I thought the "reveal" that Ransom was the villain was a little too on-the-nose, likely on purpose.
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,474
Just came back from the movie, really enjoyed it. Kind of like a Columbo from the killers point of view. I almost sussed what happened, I assume fairly early that both bottles had morphine and someone had stolen the antidote as the film didn't really make Marta look incompetant so I was ready for the twist, but it was actually more complex and enjoyable then my solution.
 
Nappuccino

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,997
Really loved the conceit of a person who cannot tell a lie accidentally murdering someone. It played out beautifully.

I felt bad for Fran though.
 
Lotto

Lotto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,364
Earth
just got back from this. so much fun and that last scene with ana de armas was the absolute best. would not mind this being a series at all.
 
Fevaweva

Fevaweva

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,463
I liked it. But not to be that asshole but I predicted the twist, if you can call it that, as soon as they properly introduced Chris Evans. In fact I was waiting for something more interesting to happen in the story, but it never appeared.

Overall a good film but not one I will remember or consider even top 10 films of the year.
 
shoptroll

shoptroll

Member
May 29, 2018
3,680
Just saw this at at a packed matinee showing. Absolutely great movie. Can't wait to watch it again when it hits streaming.

jack_package_200 said:
The movie has so many moments that'd make great gifs.
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God yes. So many quotable bits too. This is going to be one of those cult classics that gets quoted to death at minimum.

shaneo632 said:
Yeah the "my house" on the mug final shot was fucking genius.
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Quite possibly one of the great brick jokes since the mug was in the opening sequence when the housekeeper was preparing Harlan's breakfast.
 
EverythingShiny

EverythingShiny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,086
Just saw it, and as someone with emetophobia I loved the movie but had a really hard time with the puking, so much so that it distracted me from the rest of the movie. I don't think I've ever seen it used as a plot device before so I was not expecting that. :|

Daniel Craig was so good and Michael Shannon was wonderful as always. But Ana de Armas was simply phenomenal and stole the show.
 
Hierophant

Hierophant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,196
Sydney
I need a sequel following the adventures of Benoit man, this movie was so fucking good, greatly greatly enjoyed it.
It's just an incredibly fun movie. Can't say I've seen one like that for a while.
 
A Path Finder

A Path Finder

Developer at ioi
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
360
Great film!

I had this idea that maybe Martas mom had an affair with Harlan and the result was Marta. She was very upset, way more so than Marta, when Martas sister was playing the news about the death in their kitchen. So she could have had feelings for him still. A stretch but I am not sure the movie ruled that possibility out in the end?
 
MrBadger

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Gonna be honest I figured out who the killer was the second he brought up splitting the inheritance. But seeing all of the pieces come together in the end was still so much fun

GenericBadGuy said:
My wife and I have been reading a lot of Agatha Christie recently and we absolutely loved the movie. We liked how it goofed on Hercule Poirot (Daniel Craig had a lot of fun with this - that donut speech was hilarious) and some of the mystery tropes while still ending up being a great "Agatha Christie Mystery" in itself.
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That's what I loved the most about this movie, it has a lot of fun with corny tropes but it never positions itself as 'better than' the source material, and it plays the tropes straight instead of sarcastically mocking them
 
Heromanz

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
A Path Finder said:
Great film!

I had this idea that maybe Martas mom had an affair with Harlan and the result was Marta. She was very upset, way more so than Marta, when Martas sister was playing the news about the death in their kitchen. So she could have had feelings for him still. A stretch but I am not sure the movie ruled that possibility out in the end?
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She never ever met Harlan. She was upset that the sisters was watching something about death and murder when Martha good friend just died.
 
Socivol

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,651
I saw this on Friday and it did not disappoint. I appreciate that if you're paying attention you can figure it out. I knew Random was involved as soon as he was in the diner and said he knew about the throw up situation because Blanc said the person that hired him told him about it. It was also weird to me that he was having such a good time at the will reading before the family knew they were cut out.

I really enjoyed the movie and can't wait to see it again.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,719
Just got out of the movie. First-half was mediocore held up by a great cast. The last half is good though, and the finale great...though the finale lasts just a hair too long by throwing in something too obvious last minute with the call from the hospital. Like...we all immediately she was lying, right?

The final shot is up there as one of my favorite end shots. Her looking down on those rich, white entitled shits, sipping that coffee? Delicious.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,719
My biggest compliment to this film is that some mysteries love to whip twists out based on information the film never gave you, and act like it is genius they kept shit hidden from you. I really appreciate Rian giving you the pieces to the puzzle. He didn't withhold just to make himself feel smart.

Birdseye said:
It's not a whodunit, or a very shitty one. You know who did it in the first quarter of the movie.
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I realized it was Evans character damn quick after the mom said his name through the window, but still good nonetheless. It's not who did it that makes a whodunit good. It's how we get there.
 
Nappuccino

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,997
Vincent Alexander said:
My biggest compliment to this film is that some mysteries love to whip twists out based on information the film never gave you, and act like it is genius they kept shit hidden from you. I really appreciate Rian giving you the pieces to the puzzle. He didn't withhold just to make himself feel smart.
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Agreed. While I wish there may have been a little more direction, I can't really complain at all. Not to mention both my GF and I really wanted Ransom to be joyfully undoing his whole family's fortune--and thus on Marta's side. So the reveal that he wasn't was still effective even when through most of the movie I "knew" it had to be him.
 
Blackthorn

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,315
London
Just saw it, damn near perfect film.

The aspect I enjoy the most with just a couple of hours of reflection is that the family screws themselves entirely through their own awfulness rather than being directly outwitted. All Ana had to do was be good, and that was enough for the awful people to ruin themselves.

Then the family representing a diverse slice of white America, boomer MAGA types, alt-righters, bleeding heart liberals, SJWs, but even the "allies" turn as soon as money come into it. Fuck them all.

Also I want a painting of that final shot.
 
Prolepro

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
Blackthorn said:
Just saw it, damn near perfect film.

The aspect I enjoy the most with just a couple of hours of reflection is that the family screws themselves entirely through their own awfulness rather than being directly outwitted. All Ana had to do was be good, and that was enough for the awful people to ruin themselves.

Then the family representing a diverse slice of white America, boomer MAGA types, alt-righters, bleeding heart liberals, SJWs, but even the "allies" turn as soon as money come into it. Fuck them all.

Also I want a painting of that final shot.
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probably my favorite part of the film
 
Ashodin

Ashodin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
Durham, NC
So I came away with this movie with the grand theory that Marta orchestrated everything, and I'm glad to see I was right.
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,474
sir_crocodile said:
Just came back from the movie, really enjoyed it. Kind of like a Columbo from the killers point of view. I almost sussed what happened, I assume fairly early that both bottles had morphine and someone had stolen the antidote as the film didn't really make Marta look incompetant so I was ready for the twist, but it was actually more complex and enjoyable then my solution.
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Actually, now that I've ruminated over it, not only is it like a Columbo, it's like the episode "Last Salute to the Commodore" (which atypically begins with the "killer" covering up his crime rather then his murder because he is not actually the killer), only from the "killer"'s pov and done a lot, lot better.
 
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