It will definitely be part of the future but it wont be THE future for a while yet. Unless of course game companies are happy to lose all potential customers not based in major cities with access to fibre etc.
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Kojima: Gaming will move on to streaming
- Thread starter Alucardx23
- Start date
I've played GeForce Now with wired gigabit internet and have still had lag issues, dropped connection issues, and crashes occur. It's playable (most of the time) but not really as enjoyable as local gaming.
Maybe at some point it will be near equivalent (or indistinguishable) in terms of response time / latency. But right now, it's just not there, especially for the vast majority of the population in target markets.
It's more than playable enough for me to not have to spend 600$-900$ to upgrade my pc, and I'm expecting stadia to be even better
plus there's supposedly a google data center right in my state
Anyone who is willing to turn over distribution control to a corporation putting everything in the cloud does not care about long-term availability and preservation of video games and therefore is not a true gamer.
(Am I doing this right?)
Anyway, off to fire up my Satellaview and play a copy of BS Zelda
(Am I doing this right?)
Anyway, off to fire up my Satellaview and play a copy of BS Zelda
You mean the potential audience? The data center footprint? The investment? With a larger audience comes increased resources and Stadia servers are ONLY for Stadia, they can not be used for any other compute service in the data center. This also means that any data center they place servers into have to dedicate space to a purpose built set of resources. That is a scaling/capacity issue.
I know google has a lot more data centers than nvidia just by looking at the map, we will see in 2 weeks if there's wait times on stadia I'm already confident there won't be
Streaming will be a thing, but it's not taking over. People (including Kojima) need to remember there are way more people on poor/no internet. Even on fiber will the latency be good enough for 4K in VR? But yeah it will be an option some choose, and maybe in a decade or so we'll start seeing major cloud only games.
It absolutely won't. Infrastructure simply isn't there. Hell, even a lot of developed countries are barely even there. Select places can stream gaming, all the rest cannot. Companies bust a nut over the Chinese market yet their internet is horrible and will never be able to stream in its current state.
There won't be. Google already capped the number of devices sold and staggered the access rollout.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/google-stadia-pre-orders-could-be-delayed/
People can buy the premier edition before the free version comes out, the premier isn't capped
The article states that if you order the Founders (which is sold out) or Premiere edition, that you may not be able to play on launch day. That's literally what the whole article is about.
Oh I already knew that, the premier isn't delivered until December
KojimaEra: "Kojima is a visionary and a genius!"
Kojima: "Game streaming is the future."
KojimaEra: "Hideo is but a man."
Kojima: "Game streaming is the future."
KojimaEra: "Hideo is but a man."
I'm specifically addressing his absurd notion that in a few years "gaming will move on to streaming". Streaming will be supplemental. As even the best scenarios in people having extremely fast internet, have shown the tech isn't there for it to become the mass market, money-making way forward. The idea that in a few years, they have that tech down, coupled with the woefully inadequate penetration of high-speed internet in many places, on top of data caps says this is still very far off as something that will replace downloads and physical media. And I think 5g working the way some think so magically eradicating all these problems is wishful thinking as well.
It's the direction many players in the industry want to go, and it's easy to see how there would be an audience for streaming game services, even if those services compromised on features that enthusiasts care about. So I'm not betting against it. That said, I'm not really sure how some of the tech issues play out (which ones diminish over time and which can the services live with?) or what affect is has on the traditional hardware market (obviously bad, but how bad and on what timetable?).
So once stadia and xcloud have flopped and some of these cloud proponents have to deal with the undeniable reality that consumers dictate what platforms fail or thrive and too small a community of gamers has any interest in giving over complete control of their game libraries and thus game quality to publishers/platform holders I wonder what they will say. "Give it time?"
I can say for myself that the day I can no longer purchase or choose not purchase a physical or digital edition of a game without linking it to hundreds of games I don't care about is the day I check out of gaming.
I can say for myself that the day I can no longer purchase or choose not purchase a physical or digital edition of a game without linking it to hundreds of games I don't care about is the day I check out of gaming.
I'm just very curious to try out Stadia and more streaming stuff in general at this point. I'm cautiously optimistic on if it'll actually work well, but I also have an extremely good internet connection.
If it works, and it works well, streaming could change a lot in how I consume games and go about making hardware purchases. If Stadia works I could very much see myself holding off on buying next gen consoles for at least another 2-3 years, depending on how many games I want to play that are console exclusive.
I'm pretty open minded to game streaming, but the big central thing obviously is that it needs to work.
If it works, and it works well, streaming could change a lot in how I consume games and go about making hardware purchases. If Stadia works I could very much see myself holding off on buying next gen consoles for at least another 2-3 years, depending on how many games I want to play that are console exclusive.
I'm pretty open minded to game streaming, but the big central thing obviously is that it needs to work.
Yes we all know new tech works perfectly at the beginning and never gets better
So you admit people will have to stream with technology that isn't currently good enough? This is always going to happen, you will never stop dropouts etc. Can you imagine just getting to the end of a really hard session and the game stutters along, making you die and start that bit again. Yeh, that sounds like fun.
Yeah it's simple economies of scale. You ultimately need fewer computers to deliver higher quality games to more people.
Usually mobile tech is fastest when it's new.
When LTE first came out my speeds were triple what they are now in the same town.
What? Need fewer computers? The cost of the infrastructure to displace consoles is absolutely gigantic.
I game one hour per day max. The other 23 hours it's just sitting there unused.
He's 100% right. However, I can also see a future where there is hybrid processing - Cloud + local. I believe that console makers needs to move towards that space. Stadia and Xcloud will definitely push the field towards cloud gaming. For all the naysayers, just search Edge Computing/ Edge Nodes etc. You'll soon understand.
The rise of streaming doesn't necessarily mean the death of physical media. However, there will be a change; physical might only be relegated to collector and special editions.
These things don't work in absolutes. I still love to buy a special version of a 4K Blu-ray and I know many do as well.
These things don't work in absolutes. I still love to buy a special version of a 4K Blu-ray and I know many do as well.
Yea so you could serve 100 million people with 10 million gpus instead of 100 million gpus I see what your saying,
because all 100 million people will never be playing at the same time
google could serve the same amount of people as Xbox and PlayStation without having to make 50 million - 100 million systems, they would only need 10-20 million blades max and that's if it got extremely popular
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Streaming vs. Digital ownership
If everything just goes into streaming meaning that everyone gets more dependent on companies iam going to quit digital media.
I want to own something - not only borrow the right to use it.
I prefer my digital ownership based on blockchain like buying digital games on www.robotcache.com.
I absolutely despise Stadia and streaming only.
If everything just goes into streaming meaning that everyone gets more dependent on companies iam going to quit digital media.
I want to own something - not only borrow the right to use it.
I prefer my digital ownership based on blockchain like buying digital games on www.robotcache.com.
I absolutely despise Stadia and streaming only.
Really the only thing I can see streaming being good for is persistent world games like Destiny, Eve, Star Citizen (like if it ever actually becomes a game), NMS etc., Indie or early access games on console and that's only if the latency issue is resolved. I have great internet and I still doubt that every game will run as well as a local copy anytime 24-7.
...that's before we even dig into the "You pay us whatever we tell you, PER MONTH, to access our glorious library of games" whether the library is good or trash.
I highly doubt everything will go into streaming. as a company it would make little sense to not provide your games to those who play offline. as long as there are people willing to put cash down for offline gaming, there will be options for them to buy it. I do foresee it getting a bit more expensive compared to streaming offers.
Yep next gen streaming will be much cheaper than buying an Xbox 2, ps5, and upgrading your pc. Much much cheaper
This is my plan, will be trying to avoid buying any hardware next gen except for Nintendo stuff
I'm definitely not against the concept of streaming as an option (let players play anywhere without having to worry about technical stuff), but I don't really support its current execution due to how NOT eco-friendly it is. Obviously, there's a lot already going on with music/video streaming, and all the consumption electronics in general have, but I feel like game streaming would just add more to the problem - especially considering how much power data centers would need compared to other media.
But I don't even stream movies on my phone, why would I stream games of all things? I rarely stream anything to my iPad other than Youtube or Twitch, things where I don't care much about the visual or audio quality. So why would I want to play any game on such tiny screens instead of my VRR 34 inch ultrawidescreen or 4k 43 inch or 4k 65 inch TVs with full 5.1 surround. I have more than enough things to do other than game when I am not at home, I don't want to waste my time gaming with a subpar experience from small screens, increased latency/input lag, or the awkwardness of touch controls or some weird controller mount (like I want to carry a console controller + iPad or cell phone mount wherever I go). If I am at home, there is no benefit for me to stream as I would rather have minimal input lag/latency and I don't want to go through my entire Internet data cap just from gaming. A single game like Persona 5 or RDR2 would go through 2 months worth of my data cap just playing it and not using my internet for anything else....
Also, 5G wont be some miraculous revelation. It will be better than the crapshow that is congested 4G, but once everyone switches over to 5G you will see the wonderful speeds drop drastically since service providers never expand their networks enough. Plus, 5G has poor building penetration so unless extenders or whatever are installed in a building, good luck getting a signal there.
Also, 5G wont be some miraculous revelation. It will be better than the crapshow that is congested 4G, but once everyone switches over to 5G you will see the wonderful speeds drop drastically since service providers never expand their networks enough. Plus, 5G has poor building penetration so unless extenders or whatever are installed in a building, good luck getting a signal there.
I mean I'm with you on the games but I think you're in the vast minority concerning movies. It's just too easy and convenient for most people now.
Imagine a show streaming service like Netflix. You pay each month, you enjoy your media and discontinue paying when you don't want to stream. You don't own anything.
Now.. Imagine a service like Stadia. You pay full price for games, you build up your library to about 5 or 6 thousand dollars worth of games. And then.. Google quits the business, says it's not profitable for them, that you agreed to the clause that said they can terminate the service with 3 months notice, no refund, nothing. (Google have abandoned their businesses before), what then?
I think it's going to take one big failure, like Stadia, to put this streaming business in games to bed for a while.
And if the whole industry moved in that direction (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo playing the streaming game as their MAIN platform to showcase games etc), Google or anyone's failure in this regard will take the entire games industry down with them, to another video-game crash.
I respect Hideo, massive fan, but he's saying what THEY have all been saying. But THEY have a vested interest in it succeeding, they are afterall massive Capitalist companies looking for the next lightning in a bottle. One to eat your ownership, keep you paying for services perpetually without actually owning what you pay for.
Now.. Imagine a service like Stadia. You pay full price for games, you build up your library to about 5 or 6 thousand dollars worth of games. And then.. Google quits the business, says it's not profitable for them, that you agreed to the clause that said they can terminate the service with 3 months notice, no refund, nothing. (Google have abandoned their businesses before), what then?
I think it's going to take one big failure, like Stadia, to put this streaming business in games to bed for a while.
And if the whole industry moved in that direction (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo playing the streaming game as their MAIN platform to showcase games etc), Google or anyone's failure in this regard will take the entire games industry down with them, to another video-game crash.
I respect Hideo, massive fan, but he's saying what THEY have all been saying. But THEY have a vested interest in it succeeding, they are afterall massive Capitalist companies looking for the next lightning in a bottle. One to eat your ownership, keep you paying for services perpetually without actually owning what you pay for.
Gaming will never be streaming-only until its indistinguishable from local play which is next to impossible due to latency, compression artifacts, data caps, and lack of demand. Why would console makers trade their 180m current install base, which consists of hardware, software & peripherals, for a purely software model? Sure, there's less overhead cost associated with this model but I think there is less opportunity to sell their additional product as well.
Kojima's statements just comes off as wanting to be taken seriously as a medium as opposed to a real vision where streaming is dominate. Streaming is already here today, but consoles are as popular as they've ever been.
Kojima's statements just comes off as wanting to be taken seriously as a medium as opposed to a real vision where streaming is dominate. Streaming is already here today, but consoles are as popular as they've ever been.
Well I might watch a short documentary on my phone or iPad or possibly a reality tv show, cartoon, or a CW superhero TV show that I'm only slightly paying attention to, but I still want a large screen experience for any movie or a TV show with a budget like Watchman or the Dark Crystal. Maybe I would change my mind more if I commuted on a train/subway, but since I drive to work I'd rather wait until I am at home for a large screen experience for the vast majority of my media consumption, including gaming.
I have those options. Usually by the end of the day, having two kids, I'm more content to watch a show or movie on my XS Max. I even have an iPad pro right next to me on the nightstand and I don't even bother. Bit of laziness? Sure. But man I'm exhausted and it's just super convenient.