Kojima on Death Stranding: “Even now, I don’t understand the game”

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
I didn't come up with the comparison, I was just responding to it.

The problem is that this game actually costs money to consume. Generally speaking, paying consumers want to know what they're paying for, so this may be a case where early adopters may have to bite the bullet and let the word of mouth go from there.

If you want to put your unfettered trust in Kojima's work and pay to gain access to his new experimental product, more power to you, but it is a perfectly reasonable position for people to not want to put their money into something that has everyone scratching their heads as to what it actually is.
I think by now that the only way in which you can complain that they’re not giving us nearly enough to go off, is if you aren’t spending time digging in and reading up on the information that people have already discovered and compiled into more digestible form about the game from trailers, tweets, press releases etc - whether it’s story, themes or gameplay. It’s not 2016 anymore, and people have already begun starting to see things come together and understand a lot more. Many are scratching their heads more than others and I would say that they could fix much of that by spending a bit of time reading up on what is already known. Having said that I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask that of paying consumers for the most part but… I would have thought that an outlet like GameXplain would have already covered much of Death Stranding by now given that they seem to dedicate time to making 2 hour analysis videos of 3 minute trailers.

I still think the game is going to be very successful despite the purported confusion. I still think people are going to come back after it’s launched and think in hindsight, wow this actually was one of the most interesting marketing campaigns ever and be grateful that they weren’t spoon fed like traditional marketing would have you.

The “new genre thing” is most likely just marketing, though.
He created the stealth genre before he was tethered to making sequels. I doubt he’s incapable of doing it again when given the opportunity by a publisher like Sony.
 
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aevanhoe

Member
Aug 28, 2018
1,140
He created the stealth genre before he was tethered to making sequels. I doubt he’s incapable of doing it again when given the opportunity by a publisher like Sony.
Well, I mean, he didn’t really create the stealth genre, he was the first to utilize stealth elements in an action adventure console game, but there were stealth games before. Also, “stealth” is not a genre, it’s an implementation. But, even it you’re right and Kojima did “create a new genre”, that was a different time and modern games were in their infancy. I doubt we’re in a time of “new genres”. New ideas, like Soulslike or Battle Royale games come out from time to time (these are not genres) and that’s it.

So, Kojima may create a masterpiece game, but I seriously doubt he’ll create a new genre. It’s most likely just marketing. Like if someone said Cyberpunk will be a new “immersive rpg” genre. Sure.

Let’s hope DS is a great game because we could always use more great games. But everything he says and is said about his game is just marketing. And clearly it’s working because people are talking about the game a lot.
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
7,375
Minnesota
Many are scratching their heads more than others and I would say that they could fix that by spending a bit of time reading up on what is already known.
I have spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out the appeal of this game, and I shouldn't have to do that. It's not a problem inherent to innovative games and this is one of very few products where I just do not feel that the appeal of the product has been communicated very effectively. That's the marketing team's job, not the consumers', nor the press. Kojima's comments highlighted in this thread certainly aren't helping matters.

Having said that I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask that of paying consumers for the most part but… I would have thought that an outlet like GameXplain would have already covered much of Death Stranding by now given that they seem to dedicate time to making 2 hour analysis videos of 3 minute trailers.
Again, lack of information in and of itself isn't the problem; it's the lack of meaningful/appealing information. Even the greatest analysis in the world isn't magically going to make me want to buy a game that hasn't actually offered me a good reason to buy it.

And here's the thing: it should be ok that some people aren't quite sold on the game based on what has been presented so far. I honestly don't see how this is even something that needs to be argued about. Not everyone is going to be on board just because Kojima's behind it, and that should be ok.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,746
I have spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out the appeal of this game, and I shouldn't have to do that. It's not a problem inherent to innovative games and this is one of very few products where I just do not feel that the appeal of the product has been communicated very effectively. That's the marketing team's job, not the consumers', nor the press. Kojima's comments highlighted in this thread certainly aren't helping matters.



Again, lack of information in and of itself isn't the problem; it's the lack of meaningful/appealing information. Even the greatest analysis in the world isn't magically going to make me want to buy a game that hasn't actually offered me a good reason to buy it.

And here's the thing: it should be ok that some people aren't quite sold on the game based on what has been presented so far. I honestly don't see how this is even something that needs to be argued about. Not everyone is going to be on board just because Kojima's behind it, and that should be ok.
They are going to show over an hour of gameplay this week.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,149
FIN
Best third-person gameplay this gen deserves a 93. MGS4 on the other hand is indeed debatable.
How can someone be so wrong in so much words...
Gameplay alone doesn't justify that score when game itself is literally half done, character writing is bad at best, crit path is just carpet being pulled from underneath of your feet memery, Motherbase(?) management feels tacked on etc.

While gampelay is good for 3rd person stealth-ish game rest of it drags it hard.

And yes, I know I'm in minority with my view on V as ERA adores everything Kojima does.

As confused as I am about Death Stranding right now, I have to disagree with this. Had you said MGS4 instead, then we'd be in agreement.
I never watched that cutscene / movie...
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
I have spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out the appeal of this game, and I shouldn't have to do that. It's not a problem inherent to innovative games and this is one of very few products where I just do not feel that the appeal of the product has been communicated very effectively. That's the marketing team's job, not the consumers', nor the press. Kojima's comments highlighted in this thread certainly aren't helping matters.

Again, lack of information in and of itself isn't the problem; it's the lack of meaningful/appealing information. Even the greatest analysis in the world isn't magically going to make me want to buy a game that hasn't actually offered me a good reason to buy it.

And here's the thing: it should be ok that some people aren't quite sold on the game based on what has been presented so far. I honestly don't see how this is even something that needs to be argued about. Not everyone is going to be on board just because Kojima's behind it, and that should be ok.
Yours is a completely reasonable point of view. Not everyone has to latch on to the appeal of this kind of marketing, but I think some of the people that are complaining in the most backwards ways about it are doing themselves no favours. I really don’t think Kojima went into this process desiring traditional marketing for an untraditional game. He’s said as much, but I think the end results whether it’s commercial or critical successes will speak for themselves. I’m excited for the longest amount of gameplay we’ve seen yet that’s coming at TGS.

They probably told him to wrap up at some point
Yeah, I dunno. They have a production and marketing team to feed back to, but the development process has been on track except for the SAG-AFTRA strike which delayed the performance capture for almost a year. They nailed down a release date years in advance so that a budget could be set, and for the very most part have hit their goals. Sony has let some of their studios take a lot longer to build strong foundations to new IP this generation.

17 Sep 2016
11 Dec 2017
29 May 2019
Some people just don’t want to trust regardless of the receipts.
 
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brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
7,375
Minnesota
I really don’t think Kojima went into this process desiring traditional marketing for an untraditional game.
I agree. Unfortunately, that doesn't really help me as a consumer, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see what everyone else thinks about it once it finally releases (if other demonstrations continue to fail to communicate the appeal of the game).
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,831
Miami, FL
Yours is a completely reasonable point of view.

Some people just don’t want to trust regardless of the receipts.
All truth. His viewpoint is reasonable unlike the majority of detractors. I just can’t fathom someone saying they’re not interested in something for years on end still forcing themselves against their will to click on every thread and responding. It seems the best way to truly prove your lack of interest of a product for internetz cool points is nonstop and regular engagement of said product. After all, gotta make those that are interested realize how stupid they are.

Also, you’re correct in that people don’t care about the receipts. People just like to move goalposts as it fits their narrative. I vividly remember the “this game won’t come until 2021 at the earliest” or “DS will be a PS5 exclusive“ or “Kojima always takes centuries to finish games and always delays” posts until the release date trailer dropped. DESPITE Sony saying it is the fastest development on a game they’ve ever seen.

People just hate admitting having an uninformed opinion despite having zero knowledge of how things work. And they really hate to admit that they don’t know better than the people actually developing the product. It’s bizarre but entertaining watching the clown show nonetheless.
 
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ActWan

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,490
Israel
Yeah, I dunno. They have a production and marketing team to feed back to, but the development process has been on track except for the SAG-AFTRA strike which delayed the performance capture for almost a year. They nailed down a release date years in advance so that a budget could be set, and for the very most part have hit their goals. Sony has let some of their studios take a lot longer to build strong foundations to new IP this generation.

17 Sep 2016


11 Dec 2017

29 May 2019



Some people just don’t want to trust regardless of the receipts.
Kojima in fact just tweeted on that - https://twitter.com/Kojima_Hideo/status/1170649571250196481?s=20 reminding everyone again how he said it'll release in the year of Akira and a year before Tokyo Olympics (some articles were wrongly translated at the time, stating "a year before Akira").
BTW, he also said it was "slighty behind schedule" at early 2019.
People refused to believe all the evidence in front of them such as Shu praising the game's fast development time and the plan being perfectly laid out, that's why they got surprised it's a 2019 release.
 

KirikaPirin

Member
Jun 6, 2019
102
Next week we’ll get 80 minutes of DS gameplay from the man himself. What do you think he’ll show us? More pissing and walking mechanics (haters option) or action/stealth/alternate dimensions interactions?
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,161
Medellín, Colombia
He remembers alright.

oh! of course because reviews are a blueprint of the game. Because those two weren't a clusterfuck in the narrative department.

and you forgot the user rating: 8.8 and 8.3. Don't misunderstand me, I love metal gear, I loved 4 and V but the plot of those games are a big oof for me. They aren't deep at all. They are fun but they didn't change anything like Kojima claimed. Remember the Quiet statement?

V had no business to review that high, yikes...


Really makes you wonder just how accurate MC scores are for games.
Thanks, my dude.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,746
oh! of course because reviews are a blueprint of the game. Because those two weren't a clusterfuck in the narrative department.

and you forgot the user rating: 8.8 and 8.3. Don't misunderstand me, I love metal gear, I loved 4 and V but the plot of those games are a big oof for me. They aren't deep at all. They are fun but they didn't change anything like Kojima claimed. Remember the Quiet statement?
These games are fun as hell to play. I never said the story is great, they aren't after 3.