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Kojima when starting his own studio didn't want to make a Battle Royale game, felt it was the easiest way to make money, likes to create new things

antitrop

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Oct 25, 2017
6,544
Colorado Springs, CO

The part of the panel where this is mentioned to add some context to the quote. The quotes at 10:10 and the question is asked at 7:40 since he talks a bit before saying that specific thing.

He is basically saying that he wants to make games that are unique to him that have staying power with each player even years down the line and not really chase current trends, like Battle Royales, for the quick $$$.
The crowd laughing as a reaction is so strange. The tweet that started this thread is so strange. This video is innocuous as fuck.

He's not making a joke worth laughing at or an attack on Fortnite, it's just a simple statement about where his head was at when he was starting his new company...
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,843
Miami, FL
The crowd laughing as a reaction is so strange. The tweet that started this thread is so strange. This video is innocuous as fuck.

He's not making a joke worth laughing at or an attack on Fortnite, it's just a simple statement about where his head was at when he was starting his new company...
welcometoresetera.gif
 

Claven

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Aug 22, 2018
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Yeah you know what, Hideo? I'll wait and see if DS isn't the convoluted and presumptuous mess it seems to be so far before I take your words of wisdom seriously.
 

Force_XXI

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,702
User Banned (1 Day): Hostility.
This thread needs closed

We really allowing STFU Kojima drivebys?

Fucking trash

HE SAID WAS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,843
Miami, FL
I mean, I can't even blame Era. I blame Patrick Shanley for trying to turn it into something it's not.
100% true that he's the origin of this fuckery, but the people here claim to be so well-informed, claim to want to understand nuance and context and love to call out knee-jerk reactions, claim to loathe clickbait, then fall right into this basic ass trap.

It's actually kind of entertaining to see the hypocrisy on display and to watch people trip over themselves to hate a man so much for simply existing.
 
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Captain of Outer Space

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Oct 28, 2017
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It's funny that the OP is banned, so the video couldn't even be put in the OP by them to give all of these angry people the context unless somebody reports it to have a mod add it in.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,375
That just sounds pretentious af.

And its just hilarious coming from Kojima because most of his games are also in a mainstream genre. Dude is talking like he is making stuff in some super unique/niche genre.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Raleigh, NC
Yeah you know what, Hideo? I'll wait and see if DS isn't the convoluted and presumptuous mess it seems to be so far before I take your words of wisdom seriously.
What does this have to do with a cinematic heavy, off-beat adventure game being more risky, costly and less profitable than making a F2P battle royale game?
 

Claven

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Aug 22, 2018
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What does this have to do with a cinematic heavy, off-beat adventure game being more risky, costly and less profitable than making a F2P battle royale game?
Nothing, but the way he dismisses the titanic effort (and a great deal of luck) involved in making a very successful game that will make a ton of money, just seems like he's talking out of his ass. Yeah I get it, he's a rock star, but still.
 

____

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Oct 27, 2017
4,843
Miami, FL
Nothing, but the way he dismisses the titanic effort (and a great deal of luck) involved in making a very successful game that will make a ton of money, just seems like he's talking out of his ass. Yeah I get it, he's a rock star, but still.
But the comment was to compare narrative inclusion (the games he wants to make) vs no narrative inclusion (online BR-style games), nothing more. Ya'll are reading into something that's just not there....which sounds a lot like...talking out of your ass...
 

Shadoken

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Oct 25, 2017
2,375
Do BR devs pretend to do it for some artistic merit? Of course it’s for easy money.
Imo Gameplay = art. And BRs like Apex have amazing gameplay mechanics. So yes its not just easy money. Infact you could argue that making a standard open world game with generic gameplay mechanics is "easier" like Kojima would like to say.
 

Kissenkopf

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Nov 1, 2017
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Nothing, but the way he dismisses the titanic effort (and a great deal of luck) involved in making a very successful game that will make a ton of money, just seems like he's talking out of his ass. Yeah I get it, he's a rock star, but still.
Lol. He just says that it is easier (doesn't mean it ISN'T a lot of work) than the things he do. And well, maybe he knows better than you and me how these things work.
It is amazing how your heart seems to break reading his quote.

And btw this thread shows what Resetera have become. A place where you can say "Shut the fuck up" for an personal opinion. This place is more rotten then the old one...
 

Noctis

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Oct 25, 2017
5,832
New York City
Imo Gameplay = art. And BRs like Apex have amazing gameplay mechanics. So yes its not just easy money. Infact you could argue that making a standard open world game with generic gameplay mechanics is "easier" like Kojima would like to say.
To be fair he could’ve done a mgsv clone and it would’ve sold gangbusters so he ain’t wrong though.
 

Shark

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Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Raleigh, NC
Nothing, but the way he dismisses the titanic effort (and a great deal of luck) involved in making a very successful game that will make a ton of money, just seems like he's talking out of his ass. Yeah I get it, he's a rock star, but still.
I think you're inferring and projecting a lot on his comment that really isn't there.
 

Shadoken

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Oct 25, 2017
2,375
To be fair he could’ve done a mgsv clone and it would’ve sold gangbusters so he ain’t wrong though.
You mean a BR with MGSV gameplay ? Easier said than done. There is a lot of issues you could run into. And what happens if people just don't enjoy the gameplay after a while ?
just because people liked the gameplay in a SP game doesn't mean they will like it for MP game. Many examples of SP games failing to translate to MP games.

That being said , sign me up if they ever do make a MGSV BR lmao.

And btw this thread shows what Resetera have become. A place where you can say "Shut the fuck up" for an personal opinion. This place is more rotten then the old one...
Wait who actually said this ? But you ain't wrong about the second part.

Lol. He just says that it is easier (doesn't mean it ISN'T a lot of work) than the things he do. And well, maybe he knows better than you and me how these things work.
It is amazing how your heart seems to break reading his quote.
In a BR game , the gameplay is extremely vital to be successful. I would say designing that is just as hard as coming up with good level design and story for a narrative game. I wouldn't really call one game "easier" than the other.

All successful BRs are very unique in their gameplay. PUBG would probably be the exception , but that was the first of its kind. Fortnite and Apex are not your "generic" shooters by any means.
 

V_Arnold

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Oct 26, 2017
509
Hungary
That just sounds...salty? "look at how artistic and different I am!"
It is just a fact.
Battle royale games where you have no power over actually overthrowing your captors is just propaganda. Its mindless bullshit. It is positioned to keep people entertained, and it does that job perfectly. But to pretend that it is anything more is a mistake. It conveys nothing, there is nothing to direct, nothing to write, there is no conflict or drama. Everything that comes to players as memorable is emergent behavior. Same as many reality tv stuff.
 

SugarNoodles

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Nov 3, 2017
7,394
Portland, OR
But he's not though. Breaking into the BR market is very difficult. And even success can be front loaded and short lived as people migrate back to PUBG and Fortnite.
You’re kind of purposefully ignoring the meaning of his words with a literal interpretation. Look at what Konami is doing with MGS IP.

Kojima is saying that he doesn’t have any interest in the game development practices that would make the most money, which given his popularity is far more important than “well technically making a game as successful as fortnite wouldn’t be very easy”
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,375
It is just a fact.
Battle royale games where you have no power over actually overthrowing your captors is just propaganda. Its mindless bullshit. It is positioned to keep people entertained, and it does that job perfectly. But to pretend that it is anything more is a mistake. It conveys nothing, there is nothing to direct, nothing to write, there is no conflict or drama. Everything that comes to players as memorable is emergent behavior. Same as many reality tv stuff.
So only narrative driven games with good writing,drama...etc is not mindless bullshit ? A fighting game or racing game is also mindless because all you can do is beat your opponent ?
 

V_Arnold

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Oct 26, 2017
509
Hungary
So only narrative driven games with good writing,drama...etc is not mindless bullshit ? A fighting game or racing game is also mindless because all you can do is beat your opponent ?
No. What I am saying is that it is both right and logical for a storyteller to say that it is very simple to put together on an island without story, add guns, and let it play out. Its basic stuff.

He would not argue the same from a graphical or gameplay perspective - or if he would, he would be wrong.
 

Kissenkopf

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Nov 1, 2017
326
Mein Land!
Wait who actually said this ? But you ain't wrong about the second part.



In a BR game , the gameplay is extremely vital to be successful. I would say designing that is just as hard as coming up with good level design and story for a narrative game. I wouldn't really call one game "easier" than the other.

All successful BRs are very unique in their gameplay. PUBG would probably be the exception , but that was the first of its kind. Fortnite and Apex are not your "generic" shooters by any means.
lol shut the fuck up kojima
This User said it and there were similar comments on other pages too but I didn't read everything tbh.

Don't get me wrong...I don't wanna downplay the hard work they put in their games and having a good playable game isn't something you make in a few short hours.
But I would say a game with the scope of the MGS Series or now Death Stranding is a different beast with a lot of logistic you have to deal with as a director. With all the voice acting, video sequences, motion capture, orchestral soundtracks, doing trailers, polishing the open world to not getting the gamer end in a dead end...stuff like that while overseeing that the gameplay works and keeps the player engaged isn't an easy task. So while I say Fortnite and Co are ALSO a lot of work I would say that it is indeed a LITTLE bit easier to work on. And if that is just the case from a Directors perspective as in this example as Kojima will mean it from his point of view and not as a "normal" Developer.
 

Shadoken

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Oct 25, 2017
2,375
No. What I am saying is that it is both right and logical for a storyteller to say that it is very simple to put together on an island without story, add guns, and let it play out. Its basic stuff.

He would not argue the same from a graphical or gameplay perspective - or if he would, he would be wrong.
I agree with that , but he could have worded it better. Instead of just saying its "easier" , just comes off in the wrong way.
 

Claven

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Lol. He just says that it is easier (doesn't mean it ISN'T a lot of work) than the things he do. And well, maybe he knows better than you and me how these things work.
It is amazing how your heart seems to break reading his quote.

And btw this thread shows what Resetera have become. A place where you can say "Shut the fuck up" for an personal opinion. This place is more rotten then the old one...
Yeah, umm, I don't know where exactly you got that "how your heart can break" thing, I'm just not as enamored with Kojima's recent output as others, but sure, if that's what you want to go with.
Also I don't recall telling anyone to shut the fuck up, but alright. You do seem a little too invested in this.
 

NameUser

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Oct 25, 2017
7,891
He needs to get over himself. I don't even like Fortnite, but that quote is bullshit. He needs to stop acting like some auteur. He's one of the most overrated figures in gaming. And Death Standing will be another incoherent mess of a game.

Konami made the right move when they fired him.
 

Kissenkopf

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Nov 1, 2017
326
Mein Land!
Yeah, umm, I don't know where exactly you got that "how your heart can break" thing, I'm just not as enamored with Kojima's recent output as others, but sure, if that's what you want to go with.
Also I don't recall telling anyone to shut the fuck up, but alright. You do seem a little too invested in this.
You just sound like it is really hitting you hard that Kojima said something so disrespectful. Maybe I interpret to much into your words but it felt like you were a little bit furious.
Oh, I didn't say YOU said that Kojima should shut up. This thread in general eas the thing I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

Oh and just fyi...the last Kojima Game i played more than 30 Minutes was MGS on the PS1. I don't care for his games but that doesn't change that I think he is right from some kind of perspective. As we don't really know the complete context I interpret as much in his words as everybody else does.
 
Oct 27, 2017
885
North Carolina
He needs to get over himself. I don't even like Fortnite, but that quote is bullshit. He needs to stop acting like some auteur. He's one of the most overrated figures in gaming. And Death Standing will be another incoherent mess of a game.

Konami made the right move when they fired him.
You and many others are taking that quote completely out of context. You guys got played and just stupidly jumped at that obvious bait.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,571
what kojima is saying: I don’t chase trends. I’m not going to suggest a safe project over another just because I know it’ll get the greenlight.

what ppl think kojima is saying: battle royales are the easiest genre to develop & make money with. Fortnite isn’t impressive, kiss my ass.

death stranding discourse is gonna be a nightmare lol
 

Shark

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Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Raleigh, NC
He needs to get over himself. I don't even like Fortnite, but that quote is bullshit. He needs to stop acting like some auteur. He's one of the most overrated figures in gaming. And Death Standing will be another incoherent mess of a game.

Konami made the right move when they fired him.
How is it 'bullshit'? It seems that those that have a problem with this quote just have a personal dislike of Kojima and/or what he makes and haven't actually refuted what he said or his larger point.

Apex Legends was made in 18 months and exists to sell micro-transactions, loot boxes and season passes. It has a significantly smaller development time and cost compared to a brand new IP that is going to have hours worth of cutscenes. Respawn didn't even use its full team to get it out the door.

For someone who was fired for not being quick or profitable enough (even with a near 30 year legacy at the studio) and making his own studio, Death Stranding is incredibly risky (lessened by the truckload of Sony cash) compared to making something like a BR. How is this wrong?

There's a chance Death Stranding has polarizing reviews, fails to catch on like MGS does and doesn't end up being a huge success. It has a far more uncertain trajectory for a new studio than them making a F2P multiplayer shooter would.

How is this remotely controversial?
 

Crossing Eden

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Oct 26, 2017
19,441
You’re kind of purposefully ignoring the meaning of his words with a literal interpretation. Look at what Konami is doing with MGS IP.
I mean that Panchinko machine probably turned out to be a way better investment than MGSV and Survive...

Kojima is saying that he doesn’t have any interest in the game development practices that would make the most money, which given his popularity is far more important than “well technically making a game as successful as fortnite wouldn’t be very easy”
I mean he's making a AAA open world game with top tier visuals, some common game mechanics like stealth lite gameplay, gunplay, starring Hollywood actors. :| He really isn't one to talk about not going for projects that will make a lot of money.
 

SugarNoodles

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Nov 3, 2017
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I mean that Panchinko machine probably turned out to be a way better investment than MGSV and Survive...


I mean he's making a AAA open world game with top tier visuals, some common game mechanics like stealth lite gameplay, gunplay, starring Hollywood actors. :| He really isn't one to talk about not going for projects that will make a lot of money.
You’re missing the point. He could be making more money for far less investment.