Kotaku: After The Loot Box Fury, The People Behind The Next Battlefield Are Being Very Cautious

jbug617 · Mar 2, 2018

From Jason Schreier

some quotes

"No one's gonna do any pay-to-win stuff anymore," one person close to the next Battlefield told me recently. "We didn't take any of the loot box controversy lightly."

Hoping to stick to cosmetics only:

That report is accurate, if a bit premature, say people I've spoken to. Two people close to DICE told me that, while microtransaction plans for the next Battlefield have changed before and will no doubt change again before the game is out this fall, the company is indeed hoping to stick to cosmetics. One person added the caveat that US Gamer is "making a conclusion about something that is still inconclusive."

No one wants to be Battlefront 2

What may be most important, though, is how the loot box controversy has affected the people who make games. I've talked to a lot of developers about this subject over the past few months, from big companies like BioWare and Ubisoft as well as smaller independent studios, and the consensus appears to be simple: Tread carefully. Nobody wants to be the next Battlefront II. That might mean sticking to cosmetics only, as I've heard is the plan for Anthem. (Although, as with any microtransaction plan, that might change.) Or it might mean avoiding randomized loot boxes entirely, which would no doubt be a boon to many gamers.

https://kotaku.com/after-the-loot-box-fury-the-people-behind-the-next-bat-1823475844

Article goes on to talk about what some of the industry is thinking about and how SWBF2 is changing the thinking of devs.

I feel that the devs also need the support of the publishers to really make a difference.

hydrophilic attack · Mar 2, 2018

TheInfinityGauntlet · Mar 2, 2018

As long as they don't get Battlefront greedy with it no one will care that much it's the new normal and Battlefield has a very strong core base

AlexFlame116 · Mar 2, 2018

Wow Battlefront II left a deep deep gash in the industry. It's amazing just how much backlash it got. Here's hoping that we get at least some better chances and a more consumer friendly approach if they must keep loot boxes.

hydrophilic attack · Mar 2, 2018

looks like talking about it worked

lol at people saying "vote with your wallet" to shut down any criticisms of their favourite publishers and games

ron_bato · Mar 2, 2018

I can't wait to see how NBA 2K19 raises the bar for this bullshit another year.

Duck-Zilla · Mar 2, 2018

I'm all for Cosmetic only Loot Boxes. It doesn't affect gameplay & doesn't split the userbase. Premium needed to go away for Battlefield and I'm hoping they learned something about BFII. Cause if some of that shit is back, I won't buy BFV either.

Deleted member 5535 · Mar 2, 2018

After all of what happened last year, it would be really strange for them to not rethink about the practice. The publishers and developers are probably try to make it much more different in their new projects, even if they don't eliminate this monetization.

hydrophilic attack said:
looks like talking about it worked

lol at people saying "vote with your wallet" to shut down any criticisms of their favourite publishers and games

What people said most of the time is that lootboxes and MTX aren't going anywhere, which is true. Companies which includes publisher and developer are now thinking how to do such things to make it more palatable to the ones that are bothered by the practices.

Gold Arsene · Mar 2, 2018

EA is that kid who got cellphones banned and now all the other kids are giving them dirty looks

saenima · Mar 2, 2018

hydrophilic attack said:
looks like talking about it worked

lol at people saying "vote with your wallet" to shut down any criticisms of their favourite publishers and games

That's one of the most infuriating aspects to come out of this. I always expect companies to be self-serving shits but to read some of the things customers of said companies write here and elsewhere is just the saddest thing.

Douche McBaggins The 4th · Mar 2, 2018

Dude, don't battlefront that game needs to be a thing. That way shame can be used upon any publisher or developer doing this shit.

Deleted member 18823 · Mar 2, 2018

I hope they keep Premium if it means we're getting 15+ maps within less than two years rather than slow free content drops like OW

Deleted member 5535 · Mar 2, 2018

Crazy Izanagi said:
EA is that kid who got cellphones banned and now all the other kids are giving them dirty looks

Without EA this would happen in a way or another since it already happened before with Shadow of War, Forza 7 and other games. If it wasn't for them, it would happen with someone else (probably Warner Bros)

TaleSpun · Mar 2, 2018

hydrophilic attack said:
looks like talking about it worked

lol at people saying "vote with your wallet" to shut down any criticisms of their favourite publishers and games

Don't you think you're counting your chickens before they hatch? This is one report and the game closest to being released that's mentioned here is probably an October release. It's March.

Nemesis162 said:
What people said most of the time is that lootboxes and MTX aren't going anywhere, which is true. Companies which includes publisher and developer are now thinking how to do such things to make it more palatable to the ones that are bothered by the practices.

Exactly.

SheriffMcDuck · Mar 2, 2018

We're not out of the frying pan yet. Let the next wave of big MP games come out before we go praising companies for changing their ways.

As long as games don't put progression down to random chance, I'm fine. I think that's what stuck out to me with Battlefront, even though no MTX are in yet, the fact that all of your upgrades come from loot boxes is asinine.

Deleted member 10551 · Mar 2, 2018

This means keep the pressure on- make sure that they know that any use of this practice is unacceptable.

Siresly · Mar 2, 2018

Suspected they might be. And also, good.
I'm glad Battlefield wasn't their 2017 release.

ShinUltramanJ · Mar 2, 2018

That's good to hear. You don't want to fuck up your flagship shooter franchise.

Ringten · Mar 2, 2018

Quite disliked the microtransactions in Battlefield 1 too. But maybe I'm wrong, only around lvl 15 if I'm not mistaken, maybe the amount of war bonds changes significantly

Veggen · Mar 2, 2018

hydrophilic attack said:
looks like talking about it worked

lol at people saying "vote with your wallet" to shut down any criticisms of their favourite publishers and games

Yes, "vote with your wallet" is often a phrase used to dismiss criticism. 5+ years ago it was commonly joined with "entitled", so if you had bought something that didn't deliver on its promises (and/or your expectations), too bad - you have already voted.

No_Face · Mar 2, 2018

Boydosaurus said:
I'm all for Cosmetic only Loot Boxes. It doesn't affect gameplay & doesn't split the userbase. Premium needed to go away for Battlefield and I'm hoping they learned something about BFII. Cause if some of that shit is back, I won't buy BFV either.

Yep, agreed. Free maps/weapons updates and cosmetic lootboxes would be a great way of ensuring that the userbase wont get split while avoiding obnoxious pay to win practises.

Mario_Bones · Mar 2, 2018

I was going to make a snarky comment about how they'll continue to use loot boxes but just in a way that goes under the radar, but it sounds like developers are coming around to doing away with them altogether. That's great news.

Imitation Of Life · Mar 2, 2018

Good. F2P mechanics have no place in AAA games. I don't even like cosmetic, but I can tolerate it.

Deleted member 4021 · Mar 2, 2018

Remember how people talked about the backlash to Battlefront II being meaningless and it would have no effect since people would buy the game anyway? Yeah.

Salty Rice · Mar 2, 2018

Good to see others thinking real good what they do after the Battlefront 2 fiasco.

Nobody wants to see "children getting lured into a world war 2 casino".

Servbot24 · Mar 2, 2018

You don't have to be cautious. Just don't put in lootboxes. Boom, done.

Steroyd · Mar 2, 2018

Sweet maybe we can then push back to doing away with lootboxes altogether and sell me the cosmetic shit I want direct to me.

Then maybe we can push that further back to where cosmetic shit used to be unlocked by playing the game... Yeah this part is a pipe dream at this point but just let me at least dream.

StreamedHams · Mar 2, 2018

If Battlefront II had to be the sacrificial lamb for Anthem to be p2w free, I'm good with that.

On topic. I'm not super pleased about BFV being ww2, wish it was the true successor to the original BF2. At least it's cosmetic only.

Pooh · Mar 2, 2018

These guys always talk a good game before the game is out. I'll believe it when I see it.

VlaudTheImpaler · Mar 2, 2018

I just hope this carries over to the Anthem peeps as well.

I have high hopes for that game.

TheBaldwin · Mar 2, 2018

Good.

If you want lootboxes, keep them cosmetic only. Cosmetics have proven to be super successful whilst allowing to remain gameplay intact. It's best for businesses and consumers.

wrongway · Mar 2, 2018

I'm glad Battlefront blew up in their faces so spectacularly, and that it came before this. Waiting so long for BF1944 just for it to be destroyed by cancerous p2w lootboxes would be heartbreaking.

spindoctor · Mar 2, 2018

"No one's gonna do any pay-to-win stuff anymore," one person close to the next Battlefield told me recently.

I like how they candidly admit it was pay to win now...

Some close to EA and DICE have questioned whether Battlefront II's microtransactions were really that heinous, but even those people, when prodded, have been willing to admit that the balance was skewed.

"Have you considered that we were the victims?"

As one person working on the next Battlefield told me: "In the end we're gamers as well... We understand their hate."

And with that we can say that the PR cycle for Battlefield 2018 has officially begun.

Serenity Lotus · Mar 2, 2018

Til they actually show that they learned from this, their words are hollow to me.

microtransaction · Mar 2, 2018

"sorry guys! next time microtransactions will 'only' be limited to cosmetics!" oh, you! alright then, use it but don't abuse it, ok?

Nokterian · Mar 2, 2018

Uh huh..i see it when i believe it.

Brinksman · Mar 2, 2018

After The Loot Box Fury, The People Behind The Next Battlefield Are Being Very Cautious For Two Years Until The Heat Dies Down And They Feel Ready To Push Their Luck Again.

Mario_Bones · Mar 2, 2018

Eon said:
If Battlefront II had to be the sacrificial lamb for Anthem to be p2w free, I'm good with that.

A Star Wars game being sacrificed to inspire people to rise against lootboxes is the most Star Wars thing ever

Scum · Mar 2, 2018

Nemesis162 said:
What people said most of the time is that lootboxes and MTX aren't going anywhere, which is true. Companies which includes publisher and developer are now thinking how to do such things to make it more palatable to the ones that are bothered by the practices.

Nemesis knows what's up! "Hey! At least the MTX aren't as bad as they were in Battlefront 2!"

spindoctor · Mar 2, 2018

microtransaction said:
"sorry guys! next time microtransactions will 'only' be limited to cosmetics!" oh, you! alright then, use it but don't abuse it, ok?

The people attending E3 are going to cheer and applaud when they announce that the game doesn't have lootboxes. Mark my words.

Allforce · Mar 2, 2018

"Nobody wants to be the next Battlefront II."

*Battlefront II sells 9M copies anyways*

Devs: "Well now hold your horses maybe they're actually on to something...."

Deleted member 32250 · Mar 2, 2018

Now that governments are getting involved due to all the blowback, I imagine every developer even thinking about lootboxes is being extremely cautious

Hopping_Mad · Mar 2, 2018

spindoctor said:
I like how they candidly admit it was pay to win now...

"Have you considered that we were the victims?"

And with that we can say that the PR cycle for Battlefield 2018 has officially begun.

What a load of shit. You put that stuff in the game, you cant go "we are just as frustrated". You made the game like that. Thats on you.

KazuchikaOkada · Mar 2, 2018

"it's just cosmetic" is still a shit excuse for allowing this garbage.

Jobbs · Mar 2, 2018

Allforce said:
"Nobody wants to be the next Battlefront II."

*Battlefront II sells 9M copies anyways*

Devs: "Well now hold your horses maybe they're actually on to something...."

This is exactly what I was thinking. It's a fun game that sold very well that some people on the internet (most of whom would never have bought it anyway) were vocal about

I can think of worse things than being the next BF2

ApeEscaper · Mar 2, 2018

Activision will remain the same with the next Call of Duty i reckon with the loot stuff

tbyte64 · Mar 2, 2018

Is the inclusion of lootboxes into a game made at the developer level? Seems like something that no developer ever wanted and were pushed into the game by high level management at their publisher due to shareholder pressure.

I'm gonna wait and see, because while I'm completely sure that the developers at DICE hate lootboxes and dont want them in their games, I'm not so sure that their bosses share the same sentiments.

Almagest · Mar 2, 2018

Meh, I'm not so surprised at this, not particularly relieved either. Last year was basically all these companies testing the waters on how much they could push the envelope, and EA bit the bullet because they hold the juiciest IP of all time and when the shit hit the fan it splashed up to mainstream audiences.

Sure, no one wants to battlefront their games now but unless the government officials keep pushing for reforms and as time goes on and the scandal is forgotten, new, more insidious schemes will take hold and practices which felt unimaginable not long ago like loot boxes in SP games, opening the loot boxes in front of other players to psychologically manipulate them etc. will look almost praiseworthy, 'just cosmetic' has almost become a positive buzzword already even though cosmetic-only boxes still hold most of the problematic elements of the system.

Basically, we're now in an infinite loop of developers and publishers trying to make these juicy money makers as palatable as possible, until they go too far and try again in a newer, subtler iteration of the same process. The bubble will probably explode when people simply can't put enough time into several different live services at the same time as Jim Sterling said recently, but I still can't see loot boxes going anywhere anytime soon.

Thorn · Mar 2, 2018

Here's an idea. Dooont have any.

gogosox82 · Mar 2, 2018

Good to hear. The way Battlefront tied the progression system to blind boxes was just ridiculous. This was more of a self inflicted wound so I don't really want to give them credit for re thinking something they shouldn't have done in the first place but its encouraging to hear that they are at least "being careful"(whatever that means) in regards to them. Doesn't mean they are going away tho or at least didn't sound like it.

Servbot24 said:
You don't have to be cautious. Just don't put in lootboxes. Boom, done.

While I agree, loot boxes make them a ton of money so i doubt they will go away entirely. Probably trying to think of a way to make them viable without tying them to progression like battlefront 2 was.

Kotaku: After The Loot Box Fury, The People Behind The Next Battlefield Are Being Very Cautious

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