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BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA


https://kotaku.com/an-easy-mode-has-never-ruined-a-game-1833757865

In video games, easy is a dirty word, even when it shouldn't be. There's something about the word "easy" that rubs some players as condescending, something that we should maybe leave behind—except where we shouldn't. Like in FromSoftware games and Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, a game that finds itself plagued by a debate that is, by now, familiar: Should it have an easy mode?

Despite Sekiro's departure from many of the gameplay elements that made FromSoft series Dark Souls and Bloodborne infamously difficult, many players have the same takeaway about the game: it's hard. Some say it's too hard, and that it should have an easy mode. Since FromSoftware has spent the last decade crafting games that notably exclude easy modes, the notion that they might suddenly be introduced feels borderline heretical.

Like pledging a fraternity, a From game becomes a little bit more than a game when everyone who's finished it has had to endure the same litany of absurd, theatrical challenges. Finish a From game, and you belong to an exclusive club full of other people who get it. Furthermore, Sekiro removes one of the biggest options that previous From games provided to players stymied by difficulty: the ability to summon other players for help. As a result, talking about Sekirocan easily shift to talking about you, all the things you did to beat its many challenges, and your personal case for why you earned your spot in Club Sekiro.

To some, difficulty is fundamental to the FromSoftware experience. It informs every aspect of the company's design philosophy. From's spare style of storytelling, largely conveyed through cryptic item descriptions and subtle environmental clues, works better when you are forced to go through levels again and again. The stories these games tell often carry themes that revolve around decay or the loss of humanity. Failure allows you to both grasp the story and directly engage with it, completing the circuit. In Sekiro, these ideas are brought into focus in an unusually clear manner for FromSoftware; dying and resurrection are an explicit mechanic with which you interact, and the game's story plainly contemplates what that might cost. This all makes for a compelling case that Sekiro must be difficult, because difficulty is the point.

Part of the trouble is that "difficulty" can mean so many different things.

Let me lower the difficulty if old
 

Montresor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
Cuphead and Furi have easy modes. If Cuphead and Furi can have easy modes, anything can have an easy mode.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,785
Detroit, MI
At the end of the day, the creators get to decide this and From has decided that difficulty settings are incongruous with their design philosophy and how they want their games experienced.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,604
At the end of the day, the creators get to decide this and if From has decided that difficulty settings are incongruous with their design philosophy and how they want their games experienced, that's their choice.

"This game isn't what I want it to be" =/= "This game is bad"

People need to learn that if a creator decides they don't want to make a game catered to them that is a-ok. Go play something else.
 

Wolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
The only thing forced difficulty does in games is cost you potential customers. Games having different tiers of difficulty allows for more people to engage with the game, talk about it with friends, recommend it to others etc. It's ultimately up to the devs whether they want to appeal to just one audience or gain more attention, but I think some of the "pro gamers" reactions demonizing the lowered difficulty modes is incredibly unreasonable.
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,967
I mean, what do we want an easy mode in Sekiro to do? Decrease the amount of damage enemy attacks deal to you? What's this do though? Eventually you're gonna have to learn how to play the game. There's certain bosses that you genuinely wouldn't be capable of defeating without knowing how to deflect well, like big Voldo.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,077
I usually play the through games the first time on Normal, but I started DMC5 on Easy. Then, around mission 10 switched to Normal and started over, but retained all the upgrades I had already unlocked. As a result, I'm having way more fun playing through the missions again with more moves at my disposal than I would have had I started from scratch on Normal.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
I absolutely agree, but I still don't think they're necessary.

They're always a positive bonus, so they should be encouraged.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
I see they haven't played Kingdom Hearts 3. The whole game is easy mode and it detracts from the experience.
 
Jun 12, 2018
633
The article says there are a myriad of ways to make the game easier but doesn't elaborate on how to make Souls games easier.

How exactly do people want souls games to be easy? Reduce the damage numbers? That won't stop casual players from still getting hit every second.

Remove certain mobs/enemy placements? This is the only thing I can think of, but that would mean that From would have to specifically focus on this during their work cycle. I'd rather From not waste manpower on that if it means they won't be able to put as much effort into the standard experience as much as they would like.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,870
Edmonton
Nonsense, it absolutely destroys the culture around the game and consequently the game itself - if there's an easy mode then people will no longer be able to snarkly tell others to git gud.
 

NattyBo

Member
Dec 29, 2017
4,316
Washington, DC
My take: beating NES Battletoads was an accomplishment that was not cheapened by the existence of the Game Genie.

In the exact same way, FROM games on normal wouldn't be any less of an accomplishment if an Easy mode existed. Gamers love gatekeeping
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
Eh, kinda disagree.

I think easy mode in WoW raiding hurts the game, perhaps not "ruined" if you have no interest in raiding or getting the best gear or something but I do think it is something that has gradually hurt the game.
 

Murfield

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
How would you know? How could you possibly prove that an easy mode ruined a game?

You could make the case for it, as making a tightly designed segment across multiple difficulties requires more resources.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,919
Alternatively, if a game isn't what you want it to be, suck it up and deal with it.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,388
I agree.

I also think it's okay for there to not be an easy mode.

I also think it's okay for there to be 10 difficulty modes.

I mostly think I'll just play whatever the developers make and if it's too hard, too easy, too boring, too uninteresting, or too whatever-makes-me-want-to-put-it-down, then I'll put it down and play another one of the seemingly infinite games that release every day.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,785
Detroit, MI
"This game isn't what I want it to be" =/= "This game is bad"

People need to learn that if a creator decides they don't want to make a game catered to them that is a-ok. Go play something else.


It's that simple. In the world of art to include music, cinema, etc. things aren't often designed to be experienced and enjoyed universally. Some things just aren't for certain people. There are albums that are extremely abrasive and hard to get into and those artists don't have to make their music more accessible for the people who don't get it to get it.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,076
How much you wanna bet the Souls series wouldn't be anywhere near popular if it had difficulty levels when it first came out? It'd design philosophy is what caused it to gain notoriety, and people say that's not important?
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
The article says there are a myriad of ways to make the game easier but doesn't elaborate on how to make Souls games easier.

How exactly do people want souls games to be easy? Reduce the damage numbers? That won't stop casual players from still getting hit every second.
Reducing damage numbers won't stop "casual players" from getting hit in literally any game, and yet games still do it.
"This game isn't what I want it to be" =/= "This game is bad"

People need to learn that if a creator decides they don't want to make a game catered to them that is a-ok. Go play something else.
This can be applied to absolutely any criticism of anything ever.
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,967
But it ruins the egos of those who beat it ! Please think of them !
No, it means more dev time spent on something From Software clearly doesn't think is important.

They wouldn't just have to reduce damage numbers. They'd have to go through and cut content as well.

How much you wanna bet the Souls series wouldn't be anywhere near popular if it had difficulty levels when it first came out?
I don't know how difficulty levels would work with the online component of the Souls games.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
Fact. I solo'd all Souls games + DLC, platinumed Nioh and will beat the last boss in Sekiro soon (hopefully). I see absolutely zero good arguments as to how an easy mode would have impacted my experience here. Ludicrous. The devs can choose to do whatever they want and I respect that, but holy yikes at anyone suggesting an easy mode would impact your or anybody's experience negatively.

The Etrian Odyssey games were terribly hard, and got difficulty modes in the later games and they're as good as ever if not better.

edit: Shit, I created the probably most cringe gatekeeper thread in GAF history and yet, I see zero merit in the anti-difficulty settings argument.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,356
I really like Resident Evil 2's setup.

Assisted, Standard, Hardcore with difficulty adjustment sprinkled in. If you play perfectly the game will internally adjust its difficulty and things like Mr. X becomes even more frightening because he runs as fast as a ferrari. The game will tune down only if you make mistakes.
 

Martylepiaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
424
France
The thing is, nobody has the same experience when talking about difficulty. If you take two random people who beat the game, they won't have the same number of death and retry, because they don't have the same "skills" in video game. If this is fine that two people don't have the same experience on the same game even if the devs say they want everyone to do, why is it bad that they had an easy mode (wich might not be easy but easier) so that even more people can have their own experience with the game ?
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
why do people keep expecting from games to have easy modes

how many years has it been since Demons Souls came out. it's pretty clear that the director has no intention of caving to that demand. Sekiro is apparently even harder than the rest (from impressions ive read) so hes going in the complete opposite direction of the outcry. the guy clearly likes Berserk and sees Struggling as intrinsic to the experience of his games. ive barely played those games and even i see that.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
My take: beating NES Battletoads was an accomplishment that was not cheapened by the existence of the Game Genie.

In the exact same way, FROM games on normal wouldn't be any less of an accomplishment if an Easy mode existed. Gamers love gatekeeping

It's not about the player's sense of achievement, it's about the developer's vision. I respect that From feels that easy difficulty modes would compromise their vision.
 

Damerman

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
850
Game Journalists love to talk about how games are art and then come back and so this shit. Let the artists make their art. Ask movies or books to make their art more accessible, why dont you?
 

Deleted member 13645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,052
I agree. I have never played a game and thought "this game would be better if the difficulty options were gone."

Eh, kinda disagree.

I think easy mode in WoW raiding hurts the game, perhaps not "ruined" if you have no interest in raiding or getting the best gear or something but I do think it is something that has gradually hurt the game.

Why? Mythic raiding is as alive as it has ever been. How does raid finder hurt the people who want to continue to see the most difficult version of the content?

No, it means more dev time spent on something From Software clearly doesn't think is important.

They wouldn't just have to reduce damage numbers. They'd have to go through and cut content as well.


I don't know how difficulty levels would work with the online component of the Souls games.

I think in a weird way Dark Souls has a built in difficulty selector since you can grind. The early game will always be the same difficulty, but anyone has the ability to go and farm easy mobs to get a bunch of souls and overlevel to make content easier. You can't do that in Sekiro.
 

SteamyPunk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
467
How would you know? How could you possibly prove that an easy mode ruined a game?

You could make the case for it, as making a tightly designed segment across multiple difficulties requires more resources.

I was thinking the same thing. How can they even make this claim? Did they examine every bad game ever created and made sure that they wouldn't be better if there was more challenge to them? I see lots of criticism about games being too easy on these forums. Couldn't you easily say the reverse, no game has been ruined by not having an easy mode...? So what's the point?
 

Noog

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 1, 2018
2,867
They're right that easy mode doesn't make a game worse, and when the community becomes elitist about difficulty, that sucks.

However, developers don't have a responsibility to make it so everyone can experience their game. No matter how easy you make Sekiro, there's going to be people who still can't get through it. I know some people have issues with first person shooters because you need to constantly be using two sticks. Some people have issue with 3D games because of camera control. Changing those things would be far more difficult than just "fixing it". Just like making Sekiro easier wouldn't be as easy as just slapping the word "easy mode" on the title screen. They'd have to reprogram AI, the damage system and probably end up spending a significant amount of time fixing the game.

Sekiro isn't for everyone. It isn't for me. Some games aren't for all people, and ultimately if the developers have a vision, we should respect it, even if we disagree with it.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Asking for an easy mode in Sekiro is like asking for a brutal difficulty mode in Kirby's Epic Yarn

It's okay to not be in the target demographic for a game
 

spacer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,964
I'm fine with no easy mode. That's as much of a design choice as anything else related to the game. If the creators don't want different modes, they don't have to make them. Just like if a game isn't for you (because it's too hard, or boring, or you don't like the characters, etc.) you don't HAVE to play it.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,957
Canada
I mean, what do we want an easy mode in Sekiro to do? Decrease the amount of damage enemy attacks deal to you? What's this do though? Eventually you're gonna have to learn how to play the game. There's certain bosses that you genuinely wouldn't be capable of defeating without knowing how to deflect well, like big Voldo.

Sure. Lower enemy damage, increase player damage, maybe increase the deflect window. Allow for continues.

Some people just want to wander through the game and admire the artistry.
 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,819
Scotland
People complained Shadows of Mordor was too easy. If people had a tough time of the game and set it to easy right off the bat then after beating it didn't get what the big deal was because the game didn't give them that challenge the developer expected the I'd say it kind of hurts it. It's a bunch of customers that thought it was so-so instead of intense and challenging and in the future might not be as interested or share that interest.

Instead I think we've got people who were not really into Souls gameplay really giving it a try and sharing opinions about how rewarding it is and it's sucking more people in to try it. Honestly don't think it needs an easy mode.
 

Abudiix

Member
Sep 8, 2018
1,114
Malmö, Sweden
It would be awesome if all games had easy mode to choose from. I mean it doesn't hurt anyone if it's there and it also opens up the way for all players to enjoy the game the way they want. I myself usually start every game on Easy mode. I don't want to keep dying at certain checkpoints many times but I also play games like sekiro who doesn't have it
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
Not every game has to appeal to everyone. In fact, if you try to make a game like that, you'll likely end up with sth mediocre and generic. I've personally never played a Souls game because I'm not interested in combat-heavy stuff but I don't think they have to have easy modes. It wouldn't ruin the game, perhaps, but it would likely change the experience quite a bit and if the devs find that kind of change undesirable, it's their right to not include an easy mode.