Kotaku - As Destiny 2 Players Rage, Bungie Struggles To Respond

[Parenegade]

https://kotaku.com/as-destiny-2-players-mutiny-bungie-struggles-to-respon-1820770103

I see a lot of reviewers praise D2 which just goes to show how some people just want a totally different experience. Personally, I was right there with those people who loved the game...until I kept playing it. When I started the story I was all 9/10...but every few days that score would drop. When I got to the endgame and the PvP I realized it was a 6 at best.

If you visit r/Destiny almost the entire sub is in flames talking about how bad the game is. Every Destiny twitch streamer has turned elsewhere (Fortnite being a popular replacement in the Destiny community). The PvP community is basically dead.

Sad to see the game like this who played D1 more than any game other than WoW. The expansions don't seem like they're going to fix the game in any way and Bungie, as always, refuses to communicate in any meaningful way with anyone. In the age of "I'm Jeff from the Overwatch team" and Fortnite's devs speaking weekly on the game on the Fortnite BR sub Bungie's silence stands out more than ever.

 

[Dinobot]

Activision telling Bungie to ship this game this fiscal year was a mistake.

It obviously needed more time in the oven.

 

[Strakt]

Hopefully all the stuff they're announcing this week on endgame / fixes/ tuning help out.

 

[Knight613]

Probably won't see anything significant until the Fall expansion next year. Just like The Taken King with D1.

 

[zombiejames]

Between EA, Activision, Warner, and Bungie, this year's Fail of the Year is looking stacked.

 

[Deleted member 17092]

I thoroughly enjoyed the campaign. Haven't touched the game in months or the end game at all. I might get the itch to do the raid eventually.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

This franchise makes no damn sense to me, for real. Destiny feels to me like a polished mountain of dung, and the clear all-time frontrunner for "game that is incredibly successful despite itself". I cannot even fathom Destiny's success given its myriad failures, and as Bungie continues to fuck up, I'm just left thinking... what were you expecting?
I really wanted to get this game because it was talked up real good and I wanted a decent co-op shooter to play. The first week after its release on PC made the game sound promising. I am glad at this point that I didn't, and I don't think I'll ever let myself have full confidence in Bungie again.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

I don't get it: what was doing D1 in terms of progression and endgame content that D2 is not? Genuine question.

I always thought ppl really didn't liked how endgame was in D1...

 

[Rezsolution]

I haven't played a Bungie game since Reach but it seems the Bungie back then is well dead.

 

[DNAbro]

The Destiny subreddit is such a shit show right now. I know it's disappointing my damn people are furious. Example from a highly rated post from yesterday.

As much as I enjoy the game I completely understand why people are upset. I think they did fix the problems of story and more exciting worlds but have messed up a ton of different things. The problems have really become more apparent as time passes, most Destiny streamers have pretty much put the game on hold cause there isn't a desire to play it.

They are going to talk this week but no matter what they say, it won't be the sweeping changes that so many people want. I also get why people aren't going to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore, they already had that with D1. It's just that all the changes they made to D2 that went back on D1 decisions only seems to hurt the game in the long run.

 

[Funny Valentine]

I'm glad I don't have to grind to keep up as Destiny 2 is not the only game I play. They could do a better job on things like perk customization, actually making a fun raid and basic communication with the community but I don't think the game should go back to hamster wheels and repeating strikes just to satisfy the Destiny lifers.

 

[Zappy]

I think its quite hard to design a game like Destiny to engage a player base for 12 months plus for hundreds and hundreds of hours. I think the first game benefited from being the first of its type on console. The problem they had was releasing a sequel always brought high expectations. I think perhaps the community sometimes expects too much, and sometimes Bungie do under-deliver. However, they will never please everyone. Reducing the grind suits me, I want to play stuff other than D2. But many want the endless stats grind to get the perfect roll on the perfect AR....my issue with that always was that in Destiny 1 when you lucked out finally and got what you wanted...what did you do with it? That's right go and do the same stuff you were doing whilst trying to get it.

Perhaps the biggest surprise is that Bungie can't make a compelling PvP portion of the game. Destiny 1's PvP was good but far from great. Destiny 2's PvP is good for competitive teams but for everyone else its a bit meh...

PvP is where you stretch games like this out...whilst everyone waits for content they play PvP. But the PvP is lacking.

 

[Padinn]

The game has issues with end game no doubt, however I enjoy it. Same issues plagued D1 at start and it's sad to see those mistakes repeated, but it is by no means a terrible game.

 

[thistooshallpass]

They doomed the PC version, and the game is not fun.

 

[irishonion]

Activision telling Bungie to ship this game this fiscal year was a mistake.

It obviously needed more time in the oven.

Click to shrink...

As someone who still plays d2 when I get a chance, and still have high hopes for it. This is a big one.

 

[trapperkreeper]

I'm glad I don't have to grind to keep up as Destiny 2 is not the only game I play. They could do a better job on things like perk customization, actually making a fun raid and basic communication with the community but I don't think the game should go back to hamster wheels and repeating strikes just to satisfy the Destiny lifers.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, D2 is way better than D1 in terms of quality of life in every way for me

 

[Parenegade]

Activision telling Bungie to ship this game this fiscal year was a mistake.

It obviously needed more time in the oven.

Click to shrink...

I completely disagree. If you listen to the leads talk about the game a lot of the design decisions that make the game worse are things they believe in. A lot of those things are technically opinion based but some are just insane. Like Bungie believes they made the game with Twitch in mind despite the fact that they reduced the ability to make plays and reduced how powerful everything feels.

 

[Saint-14]

Destiny reddit was always a salt mine, but yes the game have some end game problems which I don't think will be fixed anytime soon.

 

[DiceHands]

I still enjoy the game. I still love doing the raid and getting exotics. But yeah, Id be lying if I said I wasnt disapointed in how they are treating D2. It isnt what I expected at all.

 

[Funny Valentine]

Oh yeah and the PvP is big yawn, long TTK team plink garbage. They just need to end this meme of having the same tables for PvP and PvE.

 

[UnluckyKate]

As Bungie did, for the past 4 years, ever since the original game came out. That is why I'm done with Destiny.

They take 4 months to " gather data " about gun balance and class balance to nerf the fire rate of a gun for 0,4% (in a 30 fps game, it's less than one frame of time to kill lol what's the point) but can disable XP bullshit immediately ?

In a world with so many other great shooter with much better Developper with transparent policies, incredible community interaction and lightning fast reaction (Warframe, Fornite, and so many others) why even give Bungie the benetif of the doubt anymore.

 

[lt519]

Rebuilding the game engine to ditch last gen consoles and support easier development was necessary. But delivering a game with a quarter of the content of Destiny 1 and almost entirely re-used designs/assets just spelled disaster. The mechanics are fine and the game is fun, but the content got old fast which I think was mostly due to the Raid being a one and done experience for many and the feeling of "I've been here before" with most the environments.

 

[LJKO]

Hopefully all the stuff they're announcing this week on endgame / fixes/ tuning help out.

Click to shrink...

I doubt even the final stream will do anything; If we want taken king level fix we probably have to wait until or after Rasputin dlc

 

[99humanity]

I'm glad I don't have to grind to keep up as Destiny 2 is not the only game I play. They could do a better job on things like perk customization, actually making a fun raid and basic communication with the community but I don't think the game should go back to hamster wheels and repeating strikes just to satisfy the Destiny lifers.

Click to shrink...

Would be enjoying the token progression system a lot more if the loot I got was useful and exciting. Biggest problem with the game is that the weapons and armor are boring compared to the first game. If I got exotics/legendaries at Destiny 2 rate but the weapons were as good as D1 exotics/legendaries, that would be amazing.

 

[Lenz]

I don't get it: what was doing D1 in terms of progression and endgame content that D2 is not? Genuine question.

I always thought ppl really didn't liked how endgame was in D1...

Click to shrink...

The endgame from Destiny 1 turned off a majority of players but the people that stuck with the series all this time are people that enjoyed it and expected to be catered to.

What you are seeing right now on forums and the subreddit is the players that stuck with the series feeling abandoned because Bungie attempted to chase the players that originally left Destiny back at it's initial launch.

The major differences in the endgame between the two games is that Destiny 1 required a larger time investment to receive it's relevant rewards, and many of the highly sought out rewards were very powerful, allowing you to dominate the game, fulfilling a power fantasy.

Destiny 2 roughly halves that time investment. The game is wide, there are many activities in the game, but once you've done them a few times, you have received the relevant reward from it. No reason to continue doing it. The harder content in the game grants cosmetic rewards instead of rewards that allow you to dominate. Most rewards are tuned with balance in mind, and not trying to break anything.

 

[Hikari]

Activision telling Bungie to ship this game this fiscal year was a mistake.

It obviously needed more time in the oven.

Click to shrink...

Lol we said that about d1.

 

[Parenegade]

I'm glad I don't have to grind to keep up as Destiny 2 is not the only game I play. They could do a better job on things like perk customization, actually making a fun raid and basic communication with the community but I don't think the game should go back to hamster wheels and repeating strikes just to satisfy the Destiny lifers.

Click to shrink...

You can say that and other people can say that...but that isn't the criticism being lobbied. It never has been people just keep saying this. People just want something to do. Strikes mean nothing. As a PvP player I have no incentive to do PvE in D2. Trials rewards aren't something to work toward.

 

[Strakt]

I doubt even the final stream will do anything; If we want taken king level fix we probably have to wait until or after Rasputin dlc

Click to shrink...

Well I was talking about

https://twitter.com/thislukesmith/status/934489098294722560

Its obviously not going to make the game amazing in one patch; but hopefully they are significant changes.

 

[Falchion]

A good game that doesn't have enough to do seems to be the case.

 

[The_Land]

I also think Bungie does themselves no favors by using Deej as their PR person.

 

[OhMyZach]

A lot of GaaS developers are riling up their fanbase. Of course, growing pains and all that, but I still can't help and feel like this is gonna bubble badly.

 

[Hobbesian Thudercat]

The Destiny subreddit is such a shit show right now. I know it's disappointing my damn people are furious. Example from a highly rated post from yesterday.

Click to shrink...

This reminds me a lot of the transition from Halo CE to Halo 2.

 

[Danzflor]

2017: The year everybody in the AAA industry did it SO BAD, it made Ubisoft look like a million bucks.

 

[RoboPlato]

The whole situation with Destiny 2 is something I just need to check out of. I really like the game as it is but agree Bungie's communication has been particularly bad lately. A lot of the hardcore fans are getting nastier and nastier due to the lack of communication. Both the dev team and the fanbase are making each other look worse and I'm stuck in the middle as someone who really enjoys the game and was just waiting for the next content drop.

 

[Deleted member 224]

I thoroughly enjoyed the campaign. Haven't touched the game in months or the end game at all. I might get the itch to do the raid eventually.

Click to shrink...

Campaign in destiny 2 isn't that good. Neither is the pvp. Which makes it a pretty bad shooter.

 

[zombiejames]

A lot of GaaS developers are riling up their fanbase. Of course, growing pains and all that, but I still can't help and feel like this is gonna bubble badly.

Click to shrink...

We can only hope.

 

[DNAbro]

The endgame from Destiny 1 turned off a majority of players but the people that stuck with the series all this time are people that enjoyed it and expected to be catered to.

What you are seeing right now on forums and the subreddit is the players that stuck with the series feeling abandoned because Bungie attempted to chase the players that originally left Destiny back at it's initial launch.

Click to shrink...

The question is if they actually captured them or not. I wasn't on a constant Destiny grind like some people and I currently like the progression in D2. I can reach an end and feel satisfied with it and come back once new content drops. I get that some people want more though.

I think their pvp changes are dumb though.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I can 100% fully understand why D1 faultered. New publisher. New-ish leadership. First new IP in a decade. Cross-gen/new hardware. New GaaS strategy. Multi-platform after being console exclusive. Changing landscape.

It all makes sense.

There is zero excuse for D2 to be as barebones and as disappointing as it is.

 

[Rodelero]

The whole situation with Destiny 2 is something I just need to check out of. I really like the game as it is but agree Bungie's communication has been particularly bad lately. A lot of the hardcore fans are getting nastier and nastier due to the lack of communication. Both the dev team and the fanbase are making each other look worse and I'm stuck in the middle as someone who really enjoys the game and was just waiting for the next content drop.

Click to shrink...

The same toxicity is obvious with the Battlefront situation too. It's likely a good thing that gamers are finding their voice on these kinds of things, but the conduct is so often so disrespectful.

 

[S1kkZ]

is there a specific date for the bungie livestream?

 

[Vic Damone Jr.]

Activision telling Bungie to ship this game this fiscal year was a mistake.

It obviously needed more time in the oven.

Click to shrink...

Didn't bungie make this decision since they would've be penalized for not completing a goal they set with activision?

Bungie aren't the victims here.

 

[Deleted member 5398]

This franchise makes no damn sense to me, for real. Destiny feels to me like a polished mountain of dung, and the clear all-time frontrunner for "game that is incredibly successful despite itself". I cannot even fathom Destiny's success given its myriad failures, and as Bungie continues to fuck up, I'm just left thinking... what were you expecting?
I really wanted to get this game because it was talked up real good and I wanted a decent co-op shooter to play. The first week after its release on PC made the game sound promising. I am glad at this point that I didn't, and I don't think I'll ever let myself have full confidence in Bungie again.

Click to shrink...

I agree, I always felt Destiny was a watered down Diablo and and even further watered down WoW. Its not big enough for an MMO-like experience but its also too shallow to hold players like Diablo or other loot games do. Maybe I just look at Destiny differently than other people.

I was under the impression that D2 would be Bungie's "World of Warcraft" moment, but it never came and it seems they delivered even less than D1.

 

[djplaeskool]

Destiny 2 players rage by continuing to play Destiny 2.

 

[Lenz]

The question is if they actually captured them or not. I wasn't on a constant Destiny grind like some people and I currently like the progression in D2. I can reach an end and feel satisfied with it and come back once new content drops. I get that some people want more though.

I think their pvp changes are dumb though.

Click to shrink...

I think that is definitely a question we will see the answer to in the next coming weeks. How many players are gonna return for Curse of Osiris? That number is the one that more or less determines if this was a successful change of heart.

There are tons of great changes in Destiny 2 but because the game went so wide and half baked it really disrupts everything. The new weapon system could be great if exotics were even more unique and the energy slot had inventive weapon types. Weapons could be even better if more than one new foundry was introduced and more perks were included. PvP would actually be pretty good if there was more player choice on game modes and mode size. Strikes would be great if they have their own loot pools.

It's just stuff like that. If each system actually had depth, we wouldn't be reeling this hard from the base game.

 

[Deleted member 14002]

I completely disagree. If you listen to the leads talk about the game a lot of the design decisions that make the game worse are things they believe in. A lot of those things are technically opinion based but some are just insane. Like Bungie believes they made the game with Twitch in mind despite the fact that they reduced the ability to make plays and reduced how powerful everything feels.

Click to shrink...

Yup. It didn't need more time in the oven, it was by a series of what I consider to be poor design choices.

 

[Shortsoptional]

I echo a lot of people here... played D1 endlessly it felt. There were carrots everywhere... I reached 297 and just sorta stopped caring. Seemed like I was only getting on to grind milestones for zero reason. Haven't played in a month.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm surprised you didn't include a quote about how Bungie's management keeps most of their own development team in the dark.

 

[RoboPlato]

I think that is definitely a question we will see the answer to in the next coming weeks. How many players are gonna return for Curse of Osiris? That number is the one that more or less determines if this was a successful change of heart.

There are tons of great changes in Destiny 2 but because the game went so wide and half baked it really disrupts everything. The new weapon system could be great if exotics were even more unique and the energy slot had inventive weapon types. Weapons could be even better if more than one new foundry was introduced and more perks were included. PvP would actually be pretty good if there was more player choice on game modes and mode size. Strikes would be great if they have their own loot pools.

It's just stuff like that. If each system actually had depth, we wouldn't be reeling this hard from the base game.

Click to shrink...

This is all stuff I can get behind. A lot of the criticisms from the hardcore community are focused on bringing back stuff I hated from D1 (random rolls, etc) but this is a reasonable list.

 

[BMW]

They doomed the PC version, and the game is not fun.

Click to shrink...

Doomed how? The PC version is beloved.

 

[OhMyZach]

We can only hope.

Click to shrink...

I'm not hoping it does. I'm hoping developers learn from their mistakes before these things happen. They typically make great games, they're just marred by poor design decisions.