The game is pretty much polished... more time won't make the game better because it was not rushed.
Destiny 2 issues are related with bad design decisions.
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Kotaku - As Destiny 2 Players Rage, Bungie Struggles To Respond
- Thread starter Parenegade
- Start date
Destiny 2 issues are related with bad design decisions.
But you just stated you don't enjoy the multiplayer. You not enjoying it is not the same as it not being there. The multiplayer is there, and it is pretty fleshed out. And they prop it up with stuff like Trials of the Nine and Iron Banner too.
I'm not a fan of Halo multiplayer myself and therfore didn't spend a huge amount of time with Halo 5 for example, hell I'm not even much of a fan of Destiny 2's multiplayer, but that doesn't mean either are lacking in content, they're just not providing multiplayer content that is especially appealing to me.
But is is somewhat shortsighted of me to claim that my own personal opinion of the gameplay, is indicative of what content there is or isn't. It isn't. Thousands of people love the multiplayer in this game, just as they do Halo 5's, and thus for them the content is there. In that sense I think people should draw a distinction between not liking the content on offer, and claiming there is a lack content altogether.
There is nothing wrong with you liking the game.
In the prior threads you are referring to, you keep making sweeping generalizations about "the hardcore" and frankly come off as spewing the "ignorant hyperbole" that you are referring to when you talk about other people. Some people pushed you on that specific point because what you said made no sense.
I also think telling people to basically "deal with it" (which is essentially the last part of your post) is a terrible way to address criticism. There is bad criticism out there, sure, but there's a lot of well thought out and interesting points of criticism that are being brought up for pretty much every single video game. Telling them that they shouldn't bother because "it won't change" seems like a very problematic statement.
I think in the past week, Bungie has had some rough streams and the really rough XP throttling incident. If people just "dealt with it," would they have fixed the deceitful system that was their XP throttling? Would they receive any negative feedback about their pretty bad second stream? There's a lot of value in that stuff, although some people word their criticisms poorly and make it hard to take seriously.
Sure, but where's the content there? Playing all of the maps once? After that I'm just playing the same content over and over again, there's nothing actually new. Add another 2 to 3 hours to my playtime and it still stands. All of the content besides the Prestige Raid in under 50 hours.
I've said I'm not a fan of the "amount of content" argument in general as the value of content is going to widely vary between people. However, it's not like there is a substantial amount of unique content in multiplayer either.
I managed to max out (lvl 305) each of my three characters right before this all this started to gain traction about a month ago. So since then I've actually been out of the loop, since there's nothing left for me to do apart from hunt exotics and there's a no point in that cause of the amount of dupes I get is crazy.
And this is where all the games issues lie. Listen, I've gotten my money's worth and enjoyments worth out of D2. I've spent roughly 140 hours on it and loved it all, but damn there's serious issues that I hope are fixed in the coming weeks with the new event dropping I assume.
I'll be back on it next week for the DLC too, but I'm not expecting any fixes with the DLC drop.
I just hope the Live Team can start fixes fast, cause the game is in dire need of them.
And this is where all the games issues lie. Listen, I've gotten my money's worth and enjoyments worth out of D2. I've spent roughly 140 hours on it and loved it all, but damn there's serious issues that I hope are fixed in the coming weeks with the new event dropping I assume.
I'll be back on it next week for the DLC too, but I'm not expecting any fixes with the DLC drop.
I just hope the Live Team can start fixes fast, cause the game is in dire need of them.
And then add in that Supers suck now, the tree they have sucks now. The double primaries suck. The Strikes have no meaning and are worth nothing. MP is 4 v 4 which was the wrong call. Tokens was a bad idea. A raid that gives you no incentive to run it with mechanics that you can tell Bungie is at a point where they try to make raids gimmicky instead of engaging and fun. Wrath of the Machine was such a good raid. VOG was amazing, hell everything compared to this raid was better.
I mean I could go on for hours.
People are going to disagree, but pvp kept that game going durning the downtime. I would have quit multiple times if not for pvp. Destiny 2s pvp is trash imo and without good pvp, I don't see a reason to stick around.
I preferred almost everything about the original tbh. Didn't like the feel of characters now, the change to 4v4, supers, etc.
And some of the best loot you can get(ships) is completely useless, it's nothing but a glorified loading screen. A set of skins for mythical weapons, ONE SET!! like wtf were you thinking turning this into a GaaS? Now we know the real reason they made color shaders a one time use thing, they didn't have enough shit to put in these loot boxes to justify them.
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This is actually quite common with larger developers, and it's not always a bad thing. Companies with an open development culture that encourage cross-discipline feedback are vulnerable to being overwhelmed by feedback. The solution is to insulate decisionmakers with a level of secrecy. To lower-level employees, this obviously comes across really poorly, but for leadership, it means they can actually get something done instead of just addressing internal feedback all day.
The "new content" that will apparently be opened on Leviathan as part of the DLC is so funny to me because I'm so sick of that place. Why would I want to go back to the no-fun zone after dragging ass through the Prestige version of the raid?
But you have to do it with all three classes to have experienced the whole game, didn't you know :)
I enjoyed what I played of the game, but I didn't think the story was any more engaging than the first game, it was lacking context, motivation and direction throughout. I don't think the overdependence on a single end game raid with daily/weekly resets is smart for keeping people invested. They have to create some sort of progression system that keeps people on the treadmill without turning people off by not seeing meaningful progress. Myself and a few friends were able to level at least one character to cap and clear all content within the first two weeks playing casually for a handful of hours a week.
I was always hoping that Bungie would bring a first person shooter Diablo to market. Instead they brought a soulless Halo-like with a worse campaign than any of their previous games, worse multiplayer than their prior works and loot systems that leave so much to be desired when compared to games that were able to manage loot cycles more effectively a decade or more ago. I'm just sad that Bungie hasn't been able to match their pedigree.
I'm sure there's more than a few people out there that would lol
My hopes and dreams are still with 343 and the bald scotsman
Because it's likely a new part of the leviathan that with its own unique artstyle, assets, and encounters (like they hinted)?
The whole thing is incredibly disappointing yeah.
I traded the game in after a week and I thought I was in the minority since folk in circles were all loving and playing it loads. While the single player campaign was serviceable and quite enjoyable, as soon as I saw the anaemic level of end game content my interest just died.
To hear nothing has really changed combined with the seedy xp moves I just feel sorry for all the destiny fans out there. I wish it was better.
I traded the game in after a week and I thought I was in the minority since folk in circles were all loving and playing it loads. While the single player campaign was serviceable and quite enjoyable, as soon as I saw the anaemic level of end game content my interest just died.
To hear nothing has really changed combined with the seedy xp moves I just feel sorry for all the destiny fans out there. I wish it was better.
It's not at all. TTK was widely acknowledged as being the turning point for Destiny into a legitimately great game.
And again, why should I be confident that it will be actually fun to play given that Leviathan is a design mess and is largely NOT fun to play?
Do you think 50 hours worth of gameplay is a limited and unacceptable amount of time to be playing a £40 game? Did you enjoy those 50 hours?
The reviews for Destiny 2 were solid, as were impressions early on. In other words the first 20-50 hours worth of gameplay many people really enjoyed. The complaints started arriving predominantly from the hardcore crowd who were disappointed the game didn't deliver that extra 100 or 200 hours of rewarding gameplay, but to me that is a ludicrous and overly lofty expectation.
Yeah, there's this really strange narrative in these threads that D1 was "saved" by TTK. No it wasn't. D1 was at its best from Vanilla to HoW. TTK introduced a lot of content and "reset" the playing field, but a lot of the content was garbage. That's also when Bungie really started to nerf things hard. Remember HC bloom? TTK was really the beginning of what would ultimately become D2.
I've enjoyed Destiny 2 quite a bit, though it's not without its flaws. There were a lot of decisions made with this game that are kind of astounding, especially when compared to how we left Destiny 1. I've said my piece on the token system and the overall economy, so I'll reflect on one of my other issues with the game that doesn't seem to get much traction in the community.
I guess it's important to note that I'm speaking from the perspective of a Hunter.
Wildwood, Dead End Cure, The Took Offense and Anti-Extinction. These are 4 armor sets that you can earn in the current iteration of the game. All of these armor pieces are reskins of one another. The only difference with these armor sets is the shader and class item. This is pretty upsetting. Sure, vanilla Destiny 1 didn't have a great variety in armor, but this isn't Destiny 1. This is 4 years later.
Enough with the reskins. I'll just leave it at that.
I guess it's important to note that I'm speaking from the perspective of a Hunter.
Wildwood, Dead End Cure, The Took Offense and Anti-Extinction. These are 4 armor sets that you can earn in the current iteration of the game. All of these armor pieces are reskins of one another. The only difference with these armor sets is the shader and class item. This is pretty upsetting. Sure, vanilla Destiny 1 didn't have a great variety in armor, but this isn't Destiny 1. This is 4 years later.
Enough with the reskins. I'll just leave it at that.
I have all 3 characters above 300 at this point, I just think the notion that there is "literally over 100 hours of content" is vastly overstating how much stuff there is to do in Destiny. This is not even considering that not every type of content is going to appeal to every person as well as not every type of content being properly integrated into the experience in my opinion. (Strikes, for example)
More time in the oven wouldn't have mattered. Its fundamentally flawed from a design perspective.
Dual primaries is so stupid. The only thing they add (taking down shields) could have easily been added to an actual secondary slot.
As for the raid. Man it's such a slog to get through. I've done it twice and each time feel burned out. Wrath of the Machine takes the cake for me (mostly because it was fairly chill).
4v4 isn't too huge a problem imo. The worst part is that, like you said, supers suck. At least D1 had a certain chaos to it that made it feel unique and ultimately fun.
Same here. I've played less D2 than D1, but I think it's a better game. Endgame has always been about grinding...
D1 wasn't any different until TTK, and even then...
I was the biggest D1 fan around. thousands of hours! it replaced poker night for me and my buddies. I consumed everything I could. It had some issues but at the end of the day there was always a reason to play and help friends because of the slot machine rolls on the weapons.
I got three characters to around 300 light in D2 and have ZERO motivation to come back. Bungie tried to bring in the people that hated the first one and in turn ruined the game and turned off the hardcore D1 players.
also throw me on the pile of people that enjoyed the TTK story stuff but hated the meta changes that came with it.
I got three characters to around 300 light in D2 and have ZERO motivation to come back. Bungie tried to bring in the people that hated the first one and in turn ruined the game and turned off the hardcore D1 players.
also throw me on the pile of people that enjoyed the TTK story stuff but hated the meta changes that came with it.
My memory of this is vastly different than yours. The community reaction was overwhelmingly positive for TTK from what I recall.
idk I'm not here to sell you the game and you don't have to play it lol. Each raid has been different tonally and thematically with varied but similar encounter design. Leviathan was the most varied and people didn't like it while some did. If you're not confident in the fact that the new raid lair will be different then What am I supposed to say to you?
If Bungie had actually wanted to make a first person Diablo, they would have realized that that game actively THROWS mobs and loot at you. You're going to get a lot of scrap/junk but you always feel like that next boss or miniboss could drop something worthwhile--and your faith is often rewarded.
It's a ludicrous expectation that the sequel won' have less to do than it's predecessor?
That's a different point than the one I was addressing.
I don't value games based on the amount of time that I spend with them. I value games based on my experience with them, whether it be 1 hour or 1000 hours.
For example with Destiny 2, I probably would have spent a lot less time with the game if it wasn't essentially a "turn my brain off and talk to my friends" type of game for 90%+ of my experience with it. The gunplay feels top notch but a lot of the stuff around that (loot, progression, story, player choice/expression) all feels pretty half-assed if I'm being honest.
I don't think it's a ludicrous an overly lofty expectation if that's the expectation that Bungie set for them with the prior game.
All these replies to my post that the game itself is designed poorly makes me sad.
This is the studio that gave me Halo trilogy plus ODST and Reach. :(
This is the studio that gave me Halo trilogy plus ODST and Reach. :(
Agreed. He is absolutely brutal.
After watching the Osiris stream, I feel like the outcry is going to get worse. Content for the expansion feels really thin. I'm curious to see how they address player concerns on their next stream. Also, It feels like Bungie gives zero fucks about their fanbase at times. I'm bringing this up based on how many times PS4 and PC were mentioned in their last stream and viewers where quick to point this out. I get it, Activision has a marketing deal with Sony. Destiny is new to PC. This may only be me, but that feels shitty. I would imagine a majority of players, who choose Xbox as their platform, probably bought at least 1 of Bungie's Halo titles.
Bingo. Posting this again:
Trying to assign a x hours = y dollars value is fucking stupid anyway. Your time can't be valued like damned square footage in a house. The reasons we play games have little to do with whether or not they were affordable.
If it takes you 200 hours to get through a games content and it wasn't fulfilling, then the amount of that content means little. You can try to convince yourself you're okay with it because of the value but if it was a mediocre experience, it was a mediocre experience, regardless of the price.
Opposition likes to point at your time played and be like "Oh you didn't get your money's worth? " like the amount of time I played a game having faith that it would get better is some kind of goddamned consolation.
If doing half-assed minigames that feel more like FPS Mario Party than actual big encounters is your idea of fun then you can keep it. WoW and FFXIV are clearly holding all the talent where raid design and large-scale content are concerned.
The problem with the game isn't even a content issue as much as it is a game system issue. The problem is that the progression systems are overly simplified garbage. People replayed content in Destiny 1 a lot more because you had guns you needed to get perks unlocked for, materials to gather, exotic quests to chase, perfect rolled legendaries to find. It made repeating content more compelling because you could might roll that upgrade/sidegrade legendary while you got a daily mission/strike rewards and worked on getting xp for that new exotic.
What is there to do in destiny 2 when none of those systems exist? There is no random perks, no weapon xp, no buyable iron banner items to level your rep for, no gunsmith quests, no bounties, no dailies, boring exotics, bad pvp. The only progression systems that are relevant in end game are bright engrams and tokens for a couple random pieces of boring static loot. Why should I ever replay missions or any other content when i have no incentive to do it again?
What is there to do in destiny 2 when none of those systems exist? There is no random perks, no weapon xp, no buyable iron banner items to level your rep for, no gunsmith quests, no bounties, no dailies, boring exotics, bad pvp. The only progression systems that are relevant in end game are bright engrams and tokens for a couple random pieces of boring static loot. Why should I ever replay missions or any other content when i have no incentive to do it again?
and this is why we can't have actual discorse in any bungie or destiny related threads. The discussion reduces down to shit posting almost instantaneously.
Okay, so I've been playing Destiny since it's original beta, and I've done basically everything Destiny has had to offer since then. Raids, PvP, all of the endgame challenges. I love this series, and its potential.
I agree wholeheartedly that Destiny 2 has a major issue, and thats the fact that theres no carrot to chace once you've done a little of everything. Destiny 2 has no endgame.
However I vehemently disagree with a lot of the community, and what they're clamoring for; in fact, the Destiny community is a scizophreminic nightmare with a host of every possible opinion that frequently contradicts itself and reverses course. Theres not much common consensus on anything (ex. "Failsafe is my favorite character" "Failsafe is legit terrible and everything thats wrong with Destiny 2's writing") if you were to start taking notes and respinding to each one.
Bungie has already shown that its aware of the common criticisms going on now, its acknowledged them, and I'm not sure what else hey can do beyond that. I don't think being more vocal about "we hear you" is the solution, either, given how little they can do right now.
I agree wholeheartedly that Destiny 2 has a major issue, and thats the fact that theres no carrot to chace once you've done a little of everything. Destiny 2 has no endgame.
However I vehemently disagree with a lot of the community, and what they're clamoring for; in fact, the Destiny community is a scizophreminic nightmare with a host of every possible opinion that frequently contradicts itself and reverses course. Theres not much common consensus on anything (ex. "Failsafe is my favorite character" "Failsafe is legit terrible and everything thats wrong with Destiny 2's writing") if you were to start taking notes and respinding to each one.
Bungie has already shown that its aware of the common criticisms going on now, its acknowledged them, and I'm not sure what else hey can do beyond that. I don't think being more vocal about "we hear you" is the solution, either, given how little they can do right now.
Crediting one person for that is a little generous, like I said. I'd also argue TTK implemented as many negative things as positive.
Yes, because you have people claiming they did EVERYTHING in the game in 20 hours...and others they say that this game injured them personally because they can't spend thousands of hours playing for a grind...That's not everyone, but the toxic comments and hyperbole...yes, that is coming mainly from the hardcore, and FPS pros that put in 100s of hours into every FPS. If you are playing a game for 1000s of hours that means you are hardcore into that type of game...the majority of gamers don't play that much.
Of course many people that have issues with this game are "casuals"...but they aren't the ones that are saying that this game sucks or that Bungie ruined their life.
I didn't say anything like that. But people should be realistic...with many of the complaints, you are asking Bungie to turn Mario Kart into Gran Turismo. Also, they didn't fix the XP issue, just changed how it worked...should be evidence that they don't play to change much.
This game will not change significantly...just look at all the issues mentioned in this one thread! Probably more issues than all the games of 2017 combined! How can one dev correct that in 3 months, or even a year?
So my point is, to people that are saying this game sucks...don't hold your breath waiting for change. Just ignore Destiny and Bungie going forward as if they never existed.
the Signal From The Panzer Abyss DLC, I'm ready
Woah Id pre order that!! Sounds awesome!
Yet there are solid posts from both sides of the fence on the exact page that you are looking at.
They made a really solid game that lasts a month
The only ones complaining are those that expected persistent play till the next DLC
And I totally dont blame them for feeling that way. However I would say they were at least up front about the design philosophy
They weren't forthcoming about a lot of other things though so they deserve some heat over it.
The only ones complaining are those that expected persistent play till the next DLC
And I totally dont blame them for feeling that way. However I would say they were at least up front about the design philosophy
They weren't forthcoming about a lot of other things though so they deserve some heat over it.
Shit posting? Bungie has no idea what they are doing. I have listed the reasons why i think so already. They have no direction. And what Direction they do have, is usually the wrong one.
Haven't played D2 in weeks and don't know if I'll pick it back up any time soon....there just isn't any incentive there for me to.
Loved playing it during the zeitgeist of launch and maxing a character out, getting to the endgame, etc. but I just don't have any want to go back...the lack of incentives killed it for me.
Loved playing it during the zeitgeist of launch and maxing a character out, getting to the endgame, etc. but I just don't have any want to go back...the lack of incentives killed it for me.
This. I enjoyed vanilla destiny more than TTK. Plus people hyped the TTK as the second coming lol
I enjoyed destiny 2, I got exactly what I wanted. But yes I feel done too (after playing a lot in a month). And that's perfectly fine.. I do not mind my games to have an end. But I'll say this much: The game, if it wants a thriving community, needs more stuff to do/ added ever so often and not just trough dlc ($)
Most of the "change" stuff I've seen from veterans is more along the lines of "hey we thought you had this figured out to some extent in D1(some people think Pre-ttk, some think post-ttk), what happened?" as opposed to "make this game a sim as opposed to an arcade racer." The Mario Kart to Gran Turismo comparison is frankly a pretty terrible comparison.
I'm repeating myself a lot here but that's not ::my:: problem with the game. The main problem is that the loot that's there is boring and unexciting compared to D1. The boring loot and longer cooldowns/slower everything makes the existing content in PVE and PVP both feel less engaging than they could be.
It's just hard. I think many of us saw the potential in the first game, and by the end of it's life it was a great game with compelling mechanics that started out in a rough place like Diablo 3 did. Then they make a sequel and dumb the game systems down so much it actually feels like a worse game that is even farther away from reaching it's potential than the first game was at launch.
It's just astonishing that they screwed the end game up this bad after having already fixed that in the last game.